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thewienke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,954
Lady, also I genuinely do try to help others and I know I'm probably naive and foolish but I do want to try.

Sorry about that, I went back to check my pronouns and missed one - should be fixed now.

I think people are more receptive offline to positivity so it's not naive or foolish at all. For instance, I know that I always appreciate it when a random stranger complements me in some obviously non-sexual way. Not everyone will react well but I bet most would.

On the other hand, it's infinitely harder to crack through people's outer layers online since we're all a little more stuck inside our heads here.

Empathy itself is a little more difficult because you're never really sure if somebody wants to discuss their personal business or not.

I value empathy a great deal. And I think it is important to practice in our daily lives. Yet more than that empathy is wisdom. Knowing how to apply the empathy and to whom. Not everyone is built the same way and can't just be smiled at or hugged. That is why we have so many ideals like honesty, integrity, and justice. They are all needed and have to be practiced intelligently. Not everyone is a scumbag, but you don't have to save everyone either.

^ this post right here kinda sums up my thoughts on Empathy.

Just keep doing you and keep spreading that cheer.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 64002

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2020
813
I value empathy a great deal. And I think it is important to practice in our daily lives. Yet more than that empathy is wisdom. Knowing how to apply the empathy and to whom. Not everyone is built the same way and can't just be smiled at or hugged. That is why we have so many ideals like honesty, integrity, and justice. They are all needed and have to be practiced intelligently. Not everyone is a scumbag, but you don't have to save everyone either.
Sorry about that, I went back to check my pronouns and missed one - should be fixed now.

I think people are more receptive offline to positivity so it's not naive or foolish at all. For instance, I know that I always appreciate it when a random stranger complements me in some obviously non-sexual way. Not everyone will react well but I bet most would.

On the other hand, it's infinitely harder to crack through people's outer layers online since we're all a little more stuck inside our heads here.

Empathy itself is a little more difficult because you're never really sure if somebody wants to discuss their personal business or not.



^ this post right here kinda sums up my thoughts on Empathy.

Just keep doing you and keep spreading that cheer.
A small thing I like to do is greet people when I'm on my way to work and I talk to metro drivers when I have a chance .
 

Cordy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,348
of all the places online that i visit this is the most hostile place.
this place is great but it always feels like you have to be on the defensive here.
i never feel like i need to be on guard on discord or twitter (as much as era hates twitter)

the type of discussions that permeate this community really put this community on the edge and it shows in every topic.
Yeah.

People act like they're stone cold thugs behind a keyboard and they damn sure wouldn't act that way in real life. It's like they feel they gotta be tough for some weird reason even though it's the internet. I don't know what's going on in their home lives, I don't know why they think being forceful and aggressive is the right move but that shit's lame.

Part of me thinks it's because of everything going on in the US, the world and in their lives. Since they can't find a way to channel those feelings out in more productive ways they get on this website and well get online in general and use it against others. Like for example, say someone makes a thread about a real issue they have, guaranteed that out of the first 10 comments most of them's going to be someone being an asshole, making jokes or making fun of the OP. That's just silly to me.

Honestly that's one reason why I try to stay away from the Etc side of the forum. I'm here for gaming news first and foremost, the community aspect just ain't the wave. In real life I'm relaxed, chill and where I'm from most people are that way so I just take that where I go.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,894
I genuinely want to believe it's possible since I find it so disheartening to see people go at each others throats. Like can anyone find common ground and be genuinely good to one another.
I can only go by my experiences. And in my experience most people are neither bad nor good, they are just average. I have lived almost all my life in the northeast so I can't say that I am really that well traveled or know much about the human experience. And honestly people in the NE are generally have a little more asshole in them to begin with in my experience.

Which is why I appreciate awesome people all the more when I actually find one.

Dogs and pets in general perpetually trigger the same sensation in the brain that we feel when we look at babies. Even when they're grown.
I personally believe that some people go a little overboard in their love for animals because its easier too than it is to do with people. A dog is going to love you from the jump and be loyal and you don't have to give as much as you would to maintain a good relationship with another human being.

People can be obnoxious about theirs kids and their pets, and I personally find it pretty annoying. Especially when they try to bring their pet into a airplane or restaurant. People won't agree with me on this but unless its a service dog I don't think animals should be allowed in restaurants, airplanes, etc. No more animal talk though as its getting off topic. Back to empathy and the lack of the same in general society.
 

Valiant

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,310

What you quoted she never said anything about just hugging people who did something wrong to you. She wanted to give everyone here a hug which is a complete misinterpretation.

Not to mention that they asked for negativity in the thread. Which you know I get, it's a forum there's no hard and fast rule to such a thing. I'm just saying if you want people to get your point right, you should try to get their's right as well.
 

Grapezard

Member
Nov 16, 2017
7,787
Empathy`s way important, even on the Internet. It lets you reflect on how your words could be misinterpreted, and that can prevent a lot of hostility on anonymous forums.

It also helps not to imply that the other person`s an idiot (please work on this, Era).
 

Yasuke

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,817
For the record I'm transgender I have no privilege I get shat on just for existing for some people and I've probably painted a target on my back just for mentioning that in this thread.

Almost everyone has some sort of privilege, but I won't presume to guess yours.

But no matter how much I wish everyone got along, I'm not about to hug it out with anyone who wants me dead simply for existing, and I don't think your rosier disposition on the matter is any better or worse than my own.
 

Wackamole

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,935
My guess is that a lot of people carry a lot of frustration with them and online it's easy to let it all out.
One on one in real life it would certainly be more of a dialogue. There is very little of that nowadays.
It has gotten very hard to really discuss things. I doubt most people lack empathy. Though some actually would love to see the world (or some people) burn, it seems. Most likely because they're hurt like hell end fed up with feeling that way. In a lot of cases that's perfectly understandable.
 

TheClaw7667

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,704
Almost everyone has some sort of privilege, but I won't presume to guess yours.

But no matter how much I wish everyone got along, I'm not about to hug it out with anyone who wants me dead simply for existing, and I don't think your rosier disposition on the matter is any better or worse than my own.
Is there a reason you read the OP and thought they were asking you to hug it out with racists?

I am wondering why you had that interpretation as I've seen it a lot on Era where someone makes a thread about a general lack of empathy and people take it to mean we should be holding hands with people that advocate genocide.

Which doesn't seem to be the point of the OP?
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 64002

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2020
813
Is there a reason you read the OP and thought they were asking you to hug it out with racists?

I am wondering why you had that interpretation as I've seen it a lot on Era where someone makes a thread about a general lack of empathy and people take it to mean we should be holding hands with people that advocate genocide.

Which doesn't seem to be the point of the OP?
Yeah dont hug racists I'm only talking about regular folks not shitty people who aren't ever going to change for the better.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,283
Empathy is necessary for a functional society and is sorely missed in our current world. It's a necessary trait to being a mature human being.

That being said, historically speaking and relevant to the current day, there have been plenty of groups of people who never got one lick or shred of empathy afforded to them and their plights. For those groups, I will never fault them for their lack of it.

It's because of this that "both sides" rhetoric falls on its face. You can't force people to have empathy for others situations when they never received any to begin with. You can't force people to have empathy for their aggressors or antagonists.

You can't pressure victimized people into thinking they have to give empathy in order to receive it. It will never work.

This is how empathy gets used as a bully tactic, trying warp a narrative that maybe a victim's greivances would be solved if they sat down with the greiver and came to a common understanding. But that simply ignores the truth of how some conflicts are actually one sided aggressions.

Also there is a truth that some people truly lack empathy entirely. They may only have it for the closest of personal relationships and no one else. Some can't or refuse to lend a shred of it torwards people they can't identify with.

As long as people like that (who lack empathy) keep finding ways to obtain positions or power or authority, there will never be peace on this Earth.
 

leder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,111
Thanks for making this thread, OP. I needed the reminder. Empathy is rare because it's so much more difficult than just dismissing people. Of course there are bad people and bad ideas that don't deserve empathy, but this forum is incredibly hostile, and I definitely am guilty of contributing towards that hostility. I'll work on more empathy here and elsewhere.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 64002

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2020
813
Thanks for making this thread, OP. I needed the reminder. Empathy is rare because it's so much more difficult than just dismissing people. Of course there are bad people and bad ideas that don't deserve empathy, but this forum is incredibly hostile, and I definitely am guilty of contributing towards that hostility. I'll work on more empathy here and elsewhere.
I'm glad I could help in some way I just wanted to share some feelings I've had for a while and figured making a thread would help.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,655
I am wondering why you had that interpretation as I've seen it a lot on Era where someone makes a thread about a general lack of empathy and people take it to mean we should be holding hands with people that advocate genocide.
I think there are a not insignificant amount of people who extend the concepts of things like respect and empathy to everyone regardless of who they are in an attempt to make the world a more caring place.
 

Bass2448

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
565
Empathy and Sympathy is an interesting thing for me. I have worked jobs where I directly interacted with people whom are racists, Self destructive, and mistake prone. So when I see someone sick who smokes or even someone who drinks and loses their wallet/keys/phone. I simply cannot extend any Empathy or Sympathy. Thankfully, I do have some when it comes to all other non-preventable situations. My Empathy/Sympathy issue is honestly starting to effect my work so I've begun to really work on myself in that department.
 

Hippo_PRIME

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
171
This forum is particularly bad for practicing empathy. For being a "discussion forum" the old hive-mind cliches come up a lot. I've rarely posted here or the old place and when I do, I typically regret it.

Era has sort of become a news aggregator for me more than anything. But I've also noticed that many of the topics I would typically read here are just ripped directly, title and content, from Reddit and often days after it was posted to Reddit. Plus, the conversation on Reddit seems to generally have more of that exact empathy talked about in this thread.

I don't mean to be a downer, just disappointed I guess? I was so excited to be here and be a part of the community. I felt the same way about the old place (before the obvious). Then I got here and got into the community and the community...was kinda just full of assholes? Like, I wonder why I'm even still here? Force of habit?

Anyway, I appreciate you OP for taking the time to talk about empathy. For trying to be some good out into the world. Kinda made my day.
 

fushi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
272
of all the places online that i visit this is the most hostile place.
this place is great but it always feels like you have to be on the defensive here.
i never feel like i need to be on guard on discord or twitter (as much as era hates twitter)

the type of discussions that permeate this community really put this community on the edge and it shows in every topic.
This is steeped in privilege. People have their well-being threatened specifically because of the actions of other people and you just want everyone to hug because that's easier for you to process.
These two posts in this thread go well together.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 64002

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2020
813
This forum is particularly bad for practicing empathy. For being a "discussion forum" the old hive-mind cliches come up a lot. I've rarely posted here or the old place and when I do, I typically regret it.

Era has sort of become a news aggregator for me more than anything. But I've also noticed that many of the topics I would typically read here are just ripped directly, title and content, from Reddit and often days after it was posted to Reddit. Plus, the conversation on Reddit seems to generally have more of that exact empathy talked about in this thread.

I don't mean to be a downer, just disappointed I guess? I was so excited to be here and be a part of the community. I felt the same way about the old place (before the obvious). Then I got here and got into the community and the community...was kinda just full of assholes? Like, I wonder why I'm even still here? Force of habit?

Anyway, I appreciate you OP for taking the time to talk about empathy. For trying to be some good out into the world. Kinda made my day.
I'm glad to have made your day and I hope your day stays good!
 

Commedieu

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
15,025
The times we are in are divisive.

Remember all those people dying for civil rights. Worker rights, human rights? That's where we are right now.


I welcome confrontation because it forces you out of the conversation. Feel free to take your ball home. There is just one wrong side of history folks. At the end of the day. These things aren't rationally discussed because they are irrational.

I'm not trying to get anyone on my "side" over dead kids at the border due to your fucking selfish vote. It's cyclical. Folks are going to have to do the same this generation. With or without ya. It's going to happen.
 

Astral

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,109
giphy.gif
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 64002

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2020
813
The times we are in are divisive.

Remember all those people dying for civil rights. Worker rights, human rights? That's where we are right now.


I welcome confrontation because it forces you out of the conversation. Feel free to take your ball home. There is just one wrong side of history folks. At the end of the day. These things aren't rationally discussed because they are irrational.

I'm not trying to get anyone on my "side" over dead kids at the border due to your fucking selfish vote. It's cyclical. Folks are going to have to do
the same this generation. With or without ya. It's going to happen.
I mean the least we can do is be kind to the people who deserve it even if I wont get to see the future I can at least make it a brighter place for folks.
 

Yasuke

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,817
Is there a reason you read the OP and thought they were asking you to hug it out with racists?

I am wondering why you had that interpretation as I've seen it a lot on Era where someone makes a thread about a general lack of empathy and people take it to mean we should be holding hands with people that advocate genocide.

Which doesn't seem to be the point of the OP?

That's not what I thought they were saying (and I'm certainly not singling our racists. I didn't even use that word).
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 64002

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2020
813
Empathy and civility aren't the same thing.
You are correct hence why I was struggling with what I wanted to title this thread. I picked empathy because being capable of caring for others helps alot. And I find that being kind to people even if its something small can go a long way. At least that's what I feel. I may be wrong.
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
You are correct hence why I was struggling with what I wanted to title this thread. I picked empathy because being capable of caring for others helps alot. And I find that being kind to people even if its something small can go a long way. At least that's what I feel. I may be wrong.
The way you had phrased it made me wary because I've also seen people use appeals to kindness as a way of tone policing and silencing criticism.
 
this thread is not about tone policing or silencing users.
OP
OP

Deleted member 64002

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2020
813
The way you had phrased it made me wary because I've also seen people use appeals to kindness as a way of tone policing and silencing criticism.
Yeah no that's not what I wanted at all. Tone policing is wrong. As well as silencing people. I
 

fushi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
272
The way you had phrased it made me wary because I've also seen people use appeals to kindness as a way of tone policing and silencing criticism.
Asking honestly and without snark: why would you assume just that instead of honest, good intentions? Because assuming the absolute worst out of everyone whenever possible is literally the reason why this community is slowly imploding.
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
Asking honestly and without snark: why would you assume just that instead of honest, good intentions? Because assuming the absolute worst out of everyone whenever possible is literally the reason why this community is slowly imploding.
Wary =/= assuming the absolute worst out of everyone wherever possible.
 

SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,625
Portland, OR
What you quoted she never said anything about just hugging people who did something wrong to you. She wanted to give everyone here a hug which is a complete misinterpretation.

Not to mention that they asked for negativity in the thread. Which you know I get, it's a forum there's no hard and fast rule to such a thing. I'm just saying if you want people to get your point right, you should try to get their's right as well.
OP is welcome to come through with whatever unspoken approach is being suggested outside of the "positive thinking" which, again, is steeped in privilege.

Know what else is steeped in privilege? "No negativity" aka tone-policing.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
I see what you're saying but I guess I disagree, or at least as a matter of degrees. I don't think most people operate like that, and it would still require something hurtful to be there. I do agree that there are likely a lot of people who have whacked interpretations of what is hurtful (think of how many white people believe they are victims of racism for one example), but at least here I feel like most people are a pretty good judge of right and wrong.

You are literally seeing it in this very thread. A harmless OP has been turned into "you're steeped in privilege" and "you want us to coddle with bigots" so people have something to attack. The OP explaining they're transgender themselves is then met with "I don't give a fuck".

Frankly the thread would not be more self-demonstrating if these people had arranged for it beforehand.

Wary =/= assuming the absolute worst out of everyone wherever possible.

But you did assume the worst of Banshee here, without any evidence whatsoever (indeed, against evidence; they already explained their position in the first page).
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,496
Empathy is, to me, the act of being able to feel what other people are feeling. It's a personal reflection of the outside world. Not everybody has that, frankly. It's a learned skill, and some people just don't, or only learn how to do it for a small handful of people, and for most people it'll only really extend to specific types of people. This is kind of ultimately the root of xenophobia, the fear and distrust for the other, since if you can't think broadly enough you'll assume others are alien when really they're just different. It's an ongoing thing, frankly. As we find out more about the world around us, you (general "you," it's a process for me too) have to keep expanding your understanding of empathy.

But the obvious objection to this is that some people can't and shouldn't be extended empathy. That personal reflection can become toxic pretty easily if you're holding up the mirror to toxic people, after all. So I get the problems with an appeal to general good feelings. But... I don't think that the issue is that there's too much empathy, frankly. I think it's just the opposite, that a lot of people are only holding up that reflection to the toxic mindsets, and never expanding it. In that way, I think that a broad encouragement to stop, listen, and learn about people and problems before you commit to a viewpoint - that being how you become more empathetic - is good, with some obvious caveats.
OP is welcome to come through with whatever unspoken approach is being suggested outside of the "positive thinking" which, again, is steeped in privilege.

Know what else is steeped in privilege? "No negativity" aka tone-policing.
How are we defining "steeped in privilege," here? Great acts of kindness often come from those with the least to give, and encouraging message board posters - who are definitely not uniform in privilege - to extent a little more empathy into the world doesn't strike me as particularly absurd.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,655
You are literally seeing it in this very thread. A harmless OP has been turned into "you're steeped in privilege" and "you want us to coddle with bigots" so people have something to attack. The OP explaining they're transgender themselves is then met with "I don't give a fuck".
I didn't see anyone say "I don't give a fuck", I don't think most people here would try to downplay the experiences of a trans individual or anything. It may have gotten off on the wrong foot a bit due to the OP's post count and profile saying they are from under a bridge with this community being a frequent target of trolls, people do get on edge with that but OP clarified that that wasn't what they meant, coddling bigots or whatever. That's not meant as an attack or anything, it's unfortunately something we need to be cognizant of because there are marginalized people here who deserve a safe community. I do think though that disagreements can be had without the thread being "turned into" anything, at least not because of a few comments. It's a valid thing to point out that empathy only goes so far, there's not any malice in saying that. People say that to help other people so they don't waste their empathy on people who don't deserve it is all.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 64002

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2020
813
I didn't see anyone say "I don't give a fuck", I don't think most people here would try to downplay the experiences of a trans individual or anything. It may have gotten off on the wrong foot a bit due to the OP's post count and profile saying they are from under a bridge with this community being a frequent target of trolls, people do get on edge with that but OP clarified that that wasn't what they meant, coddling bigots or whatever. I do think though that disagreements can be had without the thread being "turned into" anything, at least not because of a few comments. It's a valid thing to point out that empathy only goes so far, there's not any malice in saying that. People say that to help other people so they don't waste their empathy on people who don't deserve it is all.
My post count being so low was because I had my account reset due to an incident.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
OP is welcome to come through with whatever unspoken approach is being suggested outside of the "positive thinking" which, again, is steeped in privilege.

Know what else is steeped in privilege? "No negativity" aka tone-policing.

It's quite amazing to me how you claim to care so much about privilege, yet give absolutely no second thoughts to insulting and harassing a transgender woman for comitting the sin of asking people to be more empathetic. Because, of course, what makes sense in your mind is that she's secretly demanding to be empathetic to bigots.

I didn't see anyone say "I don't give a fuck", I don't think most people here would try to downplay the experiences of a trans individual or anything.

Well, stop assuming what people would do or won't do, and start seeing what they are actually doing. The OP was accused of privilege, they said they're transgender, and they were summarily downplayed and ignored:
Almost everyone has some sort of privilege, but I won't presume to guess yours.
OP is welcome to come through with whatever unspoken approach is being suggested outside of the "positive thinking" which, again, is steeped in privilege.
Know what else is steeped in privilege? "No negativity" aka tone-policing.

Read between the lines. These people don't give a single flying fuck about others' lack of privilege when it doesn't suit their own narrative. The only time privilege enters the conversation is when it's an easy cop out to paint the other person as a monster and inherently wrong. This is the literal opposite of empathy.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 64002

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2020
813


Edit: posting this since it's a good example of empathy even if it's a bit memish. Like extending a bit of kindness to someone through good vibes is nice and I've been watching this video over and over all afternoon.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 64002

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2020
813
It's quite amazing to me how you claim to care so much about privilege, yet give absolutely no second thoughts to insulting and harassing a transgender woman for comitting the sin of asking people to be more empathetic. Because, of course, what makes sense in your mind is that she's secretly demanding to be empathetic to bigots.



Well, stop assuming what people would do or won't do, and start seeing what they are actually doing. The OP was accused of privilege, they said they're transgender, and they were summarily downplayed and ignored:



Read between the lines. These people don't give a single flying fuck about others' lack of privilege when it doesn't suit their own narrative. The only time privilege enters the conversation is when it's an easy cop out to paint the other person as a monster and inherently wrong. This is the literal opposite of empathy.
I just wish people didn't make this thread about me and instead discuss the topic...
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
I just wish people didn't make this thread about me and instead discuss the topic...

I'm sorry, you're absolutely right; I'm contributing to it. :(

Back on topic, some time ago I read this essay and got me thinking. It's about tolerance and forgiveness rather than empathy, but I think there's a lot of overlap, especially in the context of this thread:
The idea is that empathy / tolerance is easiest when it is given to those that are similar to us, especially those who think like us. Conversely, it's much, much harder with those who think very differently, especially once we start painting intolerance against such people as a virtue.
 

SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,625
Portland, OR
User Banned (2 Months): Antagonizing across multiple posts creating a derail, long history of inflammatory trolling
It's quite amazing to me how you claim to care so much about privilege, yet give absolutely no second thoughts to insulting and harassing a transgender woman for comitting the sin of asking people to be more empathetic. Because, of course, what makes sense in your mind is that she's secretly demanding to be empathetic to bigots.
Let's be clear about a couple of things:

1) we need to be hyper-aware of the way we talk about "negativity" because regardless of intent, it is often used as a means to silence justified anger. Finding out that the OP is trans does not change that. Some of the very posts in this thread highlight this particular issue.

2) Privilege is complex and if you think you can write it off because a box has been checked off, then you fundamentally misunderstand it.

3) Me bringing up this issue is not harassment. Please don't concern troll to make a point.

As far as the topic at hand goes, I think it's important to acknowledge that positivity is not a prerequisite for empathy, which is to say that negativity isn't necessarily resulting from a lack of empathy, and can be quite the opposite.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
23,611
of all the places online that i visit this is the most hostile place.
this place is great but it always feels like you have to be on the defensive here.
i never feel like i need to be on guard on discord or twitter (as much as era hates twitter)

the type of discussions that permeate this community really put this community on the edge and it shows in every topic.


That's about my read as well honestly. I feel like I'm walking on egg shells half the time here. I feel less stress about jumping into political threads on twitter than I do on here.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,155
Banshee mcspook hope the weekend is going well for you buddy

❤🙌🧡🥞💛🌿💚🌏💙🎊💜🎊💙🌏💚🌿💛🥞🧡🙌❤