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DassoBrother

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,623
Saskatchewan
I appreciate the message in this thread about the Activision Blizzard allegations. Have always enjoyed HS but not sure I want to continue supporting such a toxic company.
I talk about it lots but it might be time to get off this train soon. Blitzchung incident got me to quit for a bit, low industry standard salaries was close, this timed with me having my first child in October will probably do it.

It's a small consolation I haven't seen Hearthstone devs named in the news but if it's a culture of harassment I'm not sure who's considered innocent at that point.
 

Lone_Prodigy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,415
I talk about it lots but it might be time to get off this train soon. Blitzchung incident got me to quit for a bit, low industry standard salaries was close, this timed with me having my first child in October will probably do it.

It's a small consolation I haven't seen Hearthstone devs named in the news but if it's a culture of harassment I'm not sure who's considered innocent at that point.

Ah thanks for reminding me about Blitzchung. Going to uninstall now.
 

Cat Party

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,413
Nothing wrong with ditching Blizzard games after this. Or having ditched Blizzard games over past scandals.

I've been reading the posts from current and former HS devs and it sounds like their team was mostly insulated from this. Which is good since that's the only Blizzard team that I know anything about.

I'm sure there was harassment and abuse on the HS team, because there is harassment and abuse anywhere you give men any semblance of power over women, but I hope we don't find out that the leaders of the HS team were engaged in the same disgusting and reprehensible conduct that is the basis of the lawsuit.
 

Deleted member 55524

User requested account closure
Banned
Mar 31, 2019
693
I got into HS about a year ago and have been loving my time with it. It's fun, varied and affordable compared to physical card games. I was ready to go all in on the next expansion, but after the Blizzard Activision news...it just feels gross to even boot up the game.

I think I'll sit out this next expansion and see how things unfold, but I'm not sure if I'll come back after that. We'll see.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,539
I'm not gonna drop blizzard games because of a pending lawsuit. I'll let let them have their day in court first. And if it turns out they're violating the law, then I'm sure they'll fix their shit. I saw their response claims the investigators did not follow their own laws/rules with this investigation. The court battle could be revealing one way or the other.
 

Cat Party

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,413
I'm not gonna drop blizzard games because of a pending lawsuit. I'll let let them have their day in court first. And if it turns out they're violating the law, then I'm sure they'll fix their shit. I saw their response claims the investigators did not follow their own laws/rules with this investigation. The court battle could be revealing one way or the other.
No matter what Acti-Blizzard says, I can assure they do no ever want to have their day in court. A jury would annihilate them and they know that. The most likely outcome of this is that they will fight for a long while, and then they will settle with the state by paying a large fine and by agreeing to a robust consent order that will require changes to their HR structure and employment policies.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,539
No matter what Acti-Blizzard says, I can assure they do no ever want to have their day in court. A jury would annihilate them and they know that. The most likely outcome of this is that they will fight for a long while, and then they will settle with the state by paying a large fine and by agreeing to a robust consent order that will require changes to their HR structure and employment policies.

I didn't mean to say they'll have their day in front of a jury. Just that the process is going on. Their argument sounds purely legal and not fact based, therefore would likely not require a jury (which settle questions of fact, not law) if they were successful with it.

I don't feel the need to boycott because the people with the power to make change are already doing something about it. I dunno to what end, of course, but at least they are doing something.
 

Magnus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,363
To no one's surprise, the reveal stream that was supposed to happen right now appears to have been canceled. Curious how they'll handle this, and whether the expansion itself (due next week) might get pushed or changed somehow.
 

Cat Party

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,413
I assume no one wants to get on Youtube and joke around with this hanging over their heads, especially given the awful responses coming from upper management so far.
 
OP
OP
manhack

manhack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,024
I don't plan on putting any work into the OT this time. I'll update the thread title though(maybe something relevant to the current situation?).

I'll still be playing the expansion. As always I've waited until the last second to pre-order but will not be buying it this time.

Best compromise I can do at the moment as I'd like to enjoy the work of the Blizz employees without contributing to the company for now.
 
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Wiibomb

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,711
My theory is that they're busy dealing with internal shit, plus streamers don't wanna do the reveal or theory streams. Something like that.
pretty much what I thought.

people dealing with all the shit around this is the same dealing with reveal season and whatnot (plus streamers that also dont want to deal with it), so yeah... I would confidently say they have bigger shit to deal with right now.

tomorrow is the theorycrafting stream, per trump, all cards will be revealed on that hour, 9am pacific time.
 

Noppie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,764
Iksar commented on Reddit by the way:

Our focus has been on supporting each other and planning action for how we can make our work a better place for everyone. Something we've clearly failed at in the past.

Having any celebration is a hard sell right now. I can assure you the only hesitation we have with moving forward with things like streams or card reveals is out of the respect for our co-workers. This is an incredibly important time to reflect and make sure we chart the best path forward. There is no gag order, no legal team telling us what we can and can't say. Our focus is simply on each other right now.

All that said, we still care about our work and are still passionate about delivering a great game. It's the whole reason most of us are here in the first place. We don't have plans to delay our launch or push back further developments. We are just taking time to make sure we get this moment right.
 

SanTheSly

The San Symphony Project
Member
Sep 2, 2019
6,503
United Kingdom
Won't even be using my gold for the expansion this time. Despite the game being in a better spot than it has been in years, I just can't in good faith continue to play and spend freely obtained currency on this anymore. I don't even want to provide metric data for playtime.

Uninstalled HS this week after about 5-6 years of consistent play.
 

Selbran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,567
This is some flavor. I love quirky Rogue cards.
maestra-of-the-masquerade.png
 

scarlet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,623
Warrior's questline final reward has the best animation in the history of this game.

Hunter's questline is really good. I don't think priest quest has a chance next expansion.
 
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Magnus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,363
Hmm...the BG skins are purely visual, right? No different-looking/sounding hero power, no audio emotes, nothin? Seems...pricey for just jpegs...
 

Crazyorloco

Member
Dec 12, 2017
1,261
This expansion seems to be the most creative in a long time. I'm looking forward to it, but this whole activision/blizzard thing has soured the experience. I hope things change there.

Is the expansion still on track for release next week?

I was thinking about this too especially since there's an employee walk out tomorrow.
 

Noppie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,764
This expansion seems to be the most creative in a long time. I'm looking forward to it, but this whole activision/blizzard thing has soured the experience. I hope things change there.



I was thinking about this too especially since there's an employee walk out tomorrow.
Confirmed ni delay, see above.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,539
This might be one of the best designed sets in Hearthstone. So many cool cards. I feel like even "filler" cards we typically see could easily find a place in a deck. Some of the "filler" cards are spins on previously well played cards. Very interesting.
 

gutshot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,439
Toscana, Italy
Former HS dev Dave Kosak was involved in some of the sexual harassment stuff, according to a new report from Kotaku.

kotaku.com

Inside Blizzard Developers’ Infamous Bill ‘Cosby Suite’

Booze, sexual remarks, and a giant portrait of Cosby are all at the center of Activision lawsuit

Another image from the same Facebook album shows a screenshot of a 2013 group chat called the "Blizzcon Cosby Crew." In it, former Blizzard designer David Kosak writes, "I am gathering the hot chixx for the Coz."

"Bring em," replies Afrasiabi. "You can't marry ALL of them Alex," Kosak writes. "I can, I'm middle eastern," responds Afrasiabi. Jesse McCree, currently a lead game designer at Blizzard, then writes, "You misspelled fuck."

wonder if that is why he left Blizzard? Apparently this incident was investigated by Blizzard last June and resulted in the termination of Afrasaibi.
 

Cat Party

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,413
Former HS dev Dave Kosak was involved in some of the sexual harassment stuff, according to a new report from Kotaku.

kotaku.com

Inside Blizzard Developers’ Infamous Bill ‘Cosby Suite’

Booze, sexual remarks, and a giant portrait of Cosby are all at the center of Activision lawsuit



wonder if that is why he left Blizzard? Apparently this incident was investigated by Blizzard last June and resulted in the termination of Afrasaibi.
I liked Kosak a lot when he'd show up in videos. Very disturbed by his involvement in those chats. Just gross stuff, even if you believe the story that some of the people involved didn't think the Cosby Suite was a reference to Cosby's sexual assaults. The article does mention:

However, one source told Kotaku that Kosak was one of the few people who intervened in the past when another Blizzard developer was sexually harassing them.

The picture and chats are 8 years old, I think, so maybe he got better over time. Or maybe he was just a creep who could behave in a professional setting. I've certainly known people in my professional life who are by the book in the office but act much differently after hours.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,539
That article seems off. Like why the fk would they name it cosby after the allegations... in 2013...

It's all obviously not a good look but I don't think that implicated kosak... in anything... other than being a single dude at a convention?
 

Rokal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
505
That article seems off. Like why the fk would they name it cosby after the allegations... in 2013...

It's all obviously not a good look but I don't think that implicated kosak... in anything... other than being a single dude at a convention?

Meanwhile, in the actual article:

9acb85d348b577cfd2864f39f40cb196.jpg


"Just being a single dude at a convention" ... uh, not quite.

Y'all bending over backwards to justify continuing to support this trash company with your playtime and dollars.
 

Doomguy Fieri

Member
Nov 3, 2017
5,263
That article seems off. Like why the fk would they name it cosby after the allegations... in 2013...

It's all obviously not a good look but I don't think that implicated kosak... in anything... other than being a single dude at a convention?
This kind of behavior exists because a few men are super predators and most men are just nice guys trying to get along with their lives who are happy to have a laugh with the boys every now and then and not get too worked up over "office romance" or "that guy Alex really gets flirty after a couple drinks."

Nice guys not doing anything about it is the fuel that feeds this behavior.
 

DassoBrother

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,623
Saskatchewan
Blizzcon isn't just a convention for these people either. They're employees so it's a business event. This behaviour would be gross from regular attendees but from employees it's completely unacceptable.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,539
User Banned (3 Months): Dismissive Commentary Around Sexual Abuse and Toxic Working Conditions over a Series of Posts
Meanwhile, in the actual article:

9acb85d348b577cfd2864f39f40cb196.jpg


"Just being a single dude at a convention" ... uh, not quite.

Y'all bending over backwards to justify continuing to support this trash company with your playtime and dollars.

Right, that would be inappropriate to say in a more public forum... but that's a private facebook chat no?

And... no... I am not defending the company, I am just not convinced kosak is guilty by associatian with this afrasiabi dude or by this cosby thing. It even said in the article kosak was an employee who intervened to stop harassment.

Was kosak named in the lawsuit? By any accuser? So far we haven't seen that. Meanwhile this afrasiabi guy was literally fired for his conduct. They didn't say the same thing about kosak, did they? No, not as far as I am aware.

Cosby's Sex crimes were known well before 2013

Doubtful they were well known, and I even have larger doubts about them naming the room because they were like... cosby rapes women lets go with that. Like... what? Rape isn't even an allegation (AFAIK).

This kind of behavior exists because a few men are super predators and most men are just nice guys trying to get along with their lives who are happy to have a laugh with the boys every now and then and not get too worked up over "office romance" or "that guy Alex really gets flirty after a couple drinks."

Nice guys not doing anything about it is the fuel that feeds this behavior.

It says kosak was one of the few people that actually intervened against harassment. So much for "nice guys not doing anything" line you came up with. There is a lot wrong with the picture when shit gets reported and not acted on by higher ups, those are the "nice guys not doing anything", well... not "nice guys" but you get my point.
 

Doomguy Fieri

Member
Nov 3, 2017
5,263
Right, that would be inappropriate to say in a more public forum... but that's a private facebook chat no?

And... no... I am not defending the company, I am just not convinced kosak is guilty by associatian with this afrasiabi dude or by this cosby thing. It even said in the article kosak was an employee who intervened to stop harassment.

Was kosak named in the lawsuit? By any accuser? So far we haven't seen that. Meanwhile this afrasiabi guy was literally fired for his conduct. They didn't say the same thing about kosak, did they? No, not as far as I am aware.



Doubtful they were well known, and I even have larger doubts about them naming the room because they were like... cosby rapes women lets go with that. Like... what? Rape isn't even an allegation (AFAIK).



It says kosak was one of the few people that actually intervened against harassment. So much for "nice guys not doing anything" line you came up with. There is a lot wrong with the picture when shit gets reported and not acted on by higher ups, those are the "nice guys not doing anything", well... not "nice guys" but you get my point.
Word? Cause he's also in this text chain yukking it up with the most credibly accused abuser in this situation so tell more about how much good he did.
 

Doomguy Fieri

Member
Nov 3, 2017
5,263
So now you're just moving the goal post rather than admit perhaps you're wrong to jump to conclusions.
Literally not. Hes right there and I quote "happy to have a laugh with the boys" when one of the boys is a predatory creep who's abused who knows how many women employees or fans. But keep on pointing out technically he's not indicted yet and hey maybe he was the one doofus who actually thought the Cosby joke was sweater related.
 

jman1954goat

Linked the Fire
Member
May 9, 2020
12,416
I even have larger doubts about them naming the room because they were like... cosby rapes women lets go with that.
Shitty people do shitty things. Intentionally naming the room after cosby is not only part of the complaint by the state if California but is not even close to the worse thing or "most unbelievable" thing.

I have no idea how much Kosak was personally involved I do know the abuse extended to the hearthstone team and I'm in now mood to give anyone in a leadership role the benefit of the doubt.
 

Rokal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
505
Right, that would be inappropriate to say in a more public forum... but that's a private facebook chat no?

Genuinely not sure what point you're trying to make here. The sexual harassment and predatory behavior went on for years "in private". That they're talking about it on a private Facebook chat instead of a public one makes literally no difference. The whole issue is that this behavior was enabled for years by the company and its leadership, and it has only within the last week become "public".

This is a group of high-ranking employees at a company, attending an event with the public where they are there as representatives of the company, who are openly talking about bringing "hot chixx" to a room dubbed the "Cosby room" full of booze and where there are existing accounts of women lured there and subjected to inappropriate unwanted physical contact from said co-workers. Is this the hill you want to die on?

Gotta say, you're a great example of why this behavior is enabled so often.

Enjoy your video game.