This confusion will continue with any new TV, this is about TVs having their own specs for HDR, nothing you can do.
The issue of this video is more on Sony's part btw, where PS5 adjuster levels increase too much in a simple button press.
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HDTVTest "You've Been Doing PS5 [Adjust HDR] Wrong... Here's How to Get the Best Settings"
- Thread starter Deleted member 12323
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This confusion will continue with any new TV, this is about TVs having their own specs for HDR, nothing you can do.
The issue of this video is more on Sony's part btw, where PS5 adjuster levels increase too much in a simple button press.
I tried it but its too dark on my C9.
Before I had Tone mapping off. When you have it off and you are calibrating, it takes a lot more ticks to get the image to clip, like 24 vs 14. I think i might just go back the way I had it.
Is it too dark because of the final black screen test or a combination of the three? I can leave HGIG on and follow Vincents advice but on the last screen maybe just raise it? I don't want to elevate my black levels at the expense of a bright overall picture. I felt I did have inky blacks before though when the image asked for it.
Before I had Tone mapping off. When you have it off and you are calibrating, it takes a lot more ticks to get the image to clip, like 24 vs 14. I think i might just go back the way I had it.
Is it too dark because of the final black screen test or a combination of the three? I can leave HGIG on and follow Vincents advice but on the last screen maybe just raise it? I don't want to elevate my black levels at the expense of a bright overall picture. I felt I did have inky blacks before though when the image asked for it.
It's a PS5 issue for sure. He shows it well in the video, you're telling the PS5 that you can tell the difference between the lowest possible step (0 black) and the next step (10,10,10). It then sets the minimum to (10,10,10) instead of zero. Same on the bright side.
I have to agree on that, I really like Vincent but his videos could be shorter.
So if I have an LED 4k HDR TV (Sony X800D) I should NOT follow this guide? And just do what the console tells me?
As useful as Vincent's videos are, I always find them a bit off-putting.
One because he tends to ramble on and sometimes his points get lost amongst the waffle.
Two because he tends to have some really sus jokes. Multiple jokes about women in this video alone and I have seen it in other ones too. Makes him come across as the techy incel types you find. He also made a Brexit joke before that made it seem like he was pro Brexit which put me off.
One because he tends to ramble on and sometimes his points get lost amongst the waffle.
Two because he tends to have some really sus jokes. Multiple jokes about women in this video alone and I have seen it in other ones too. Makes him come across as the techy incel types you find. He also made a Brexit joke before that made it seem like he was pro Brexit which put me off.
I got this over Friday and it came yesterday
https://www.vizio.com/en/tv/v-series/V405-H19
Is it PS5 ready? It said it's HDMI 2.1 ready.
https://www.vizio.com/en/tv/v-series/V405-H19
Is it PS5 ready? It said it's HDMI 2.1 ready.
spot on. The analysis is good, but like many other YouTube tutorial videos, the content is about 2 minutes of a ~20 minute video.
As for the jokes, don't quit your day job, Vinnie.
This is misleading. HGIG is not supported by most games. If a game doesn't support it, dynamic tone mapping is basically off which defeats the purpose of HDR.
There's a huge difference as without HGIG, the display will be tone mapping whatever signal it's receiving. With HGIG on it leaves the tone mapping up to the external device, in this case the PS5.
It baffles me why they don't give nits values with these test patterns. They should also be doing this for in-game HDR calibration screens.
There are several great review sites out there now including rtings where people can find out what the peak luminance of their specific model TV is. Having nits values would be really useful. The one issue is that some TV's tone map up to values exceeding their peak luminance, which is strange. My Sony X950g definitely does this. It doesn't start to clip until about 1800 nits, but the peak luminance of the display is 1200 nits, so its tone mapping it to fit within the panel's dynamic range.
Also for screen 3/3, his advice to set it to lowest value always is ONLY true for OLEDs. For LED displays with local dimming, you're going to clip black detail doing it this way. On my Sony x950g the correct value is right at the default (so no adjustment needed).
What does "tone mapping off" mean so?
Edit:I use HGIG, I'm just wondering
No, HGIG just leaves it up to the external device to tone map. It'll work with any game that officially uses it via the OS HDR setting on either PS5 or XSX, or any game that supports a peak brightness HDR slider in-game.
That means a ton of games support it. I leave HGIG on 100% of the time.
This was me when I played Death Stranding on PC. The arbitrary luminance slider broke something in me and from that point on I just say fuck it and crank everything up until games look pleasing to my eyes.
No point worrying about what's correct when developers can't even be bothered and Microsoft breaks HDR with every other update.
Outside of HGIG in gaming mode, I don't think there's a setting to turn tone mapping completely off on an LG display. You can turn Dynamic Tone Mapping off but that's a whole different thing.
Tone mapping is mapping down the brightness of a signal to match the capabilities of your display. So for example if your display has a maximum nit output of 800nits, and it receives a signal of 10,000 nits, your display will tone map that signal down to the 800nits it can output in as accurate of a way that it can.
This is why, if you have HGIG disabled, you'll have to move many more ticks over in the HDR calibration setup on PS5. Your display is tone mapping those higher nit levels down to whatever its maximum nit output is.
WIth HGIG, tone mapping is disabled on the TV and left up to the external device (PS5 or XSX), so if your display has a maximum light output of 800nits, whites will start to clip at the 800nit level in the HDR calibration screen because your display won't be tone mapping higher nit levels.
Hope that makes sense. I'm not an expert or anything so I probably got some of the details wrong.
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The whole point of HGIG/OS-level HDR is to create a standard though. Set it once and all games fall in line from there. It's early times though, of course.
At no point during any games that I've tested (that dont support it) did it look better than dynamic tone mapping. It dims everything down and there is no difference with HGIG or dynamic tone mapping set to off which means it's not working as it should. Maybe you hate brightness but amazing contrast and popping brightness is why I bought an OLED HDR tv.
I don't hate brightness, but I enjoy an accurate picture. With Dynamic Tone Mapping you're often blowing out highlights and losing fine detail. That's fine if that's your preference, but it doesn't mean I "hate brightness" lol.
And turning off Dynamic Tone Mapping arguably creates MORE of a pop, not less. The difference being, is that with Dynamic Tone Mapping ON it's always "pop", all the time, because everything's exaggerated to create that artificial pop. With Dynamic Tone Mapping off, you often get a dimmer overall picture but the parts of the picture that are supposed to pop REALLY pop because of that contrast between dim and bright. That's kind of the whole point of HDR. High Dynamic Range.
There is a difference. For one on the calibration screen, it requires a lot more ticks with TM off to clip the whites. I remember also testing HGIG on and Off with RDR2 when staring at the sun and there was a subtle but noticeable change in the suns light output. It didn't change the scene like DTM On does but there are subtilties to the clipping points.
He's talking about games that don't support it, so I guess calibration wouldn't apply to them?
Well, one reason not to have it enabled is that not all games follow HGIG guidelines (in fact very few do, not sure if that will change this generation), so having HGIG enabled in those games means you will be not applying your TV's Dynamic Tone Mapping in a game that is outputting qcodes way above (or below) what your TV can display without clipping, but the other way around should be mostly fine?
Not to mention that even in games using HGIG you still have to rely on the game having a very good HDR tone mapping implementation, which is a hard problem when your screen has very different max full frame HDR brightness and 10% frame HDR brightness... (for example, my LG CX has a ~140nits full frame peak brightness and 813nits 10% frame peak brightness. That's almost 700 nits of difference. If the game tonemapper messes up it might be clipping all to a very limited range but what could still contain higher luminosity parts, reducing the brightness even more in the rest of the scene -and also introducing banding as well-).
There is a reason people complain about dark/dim scenes when using HGIG, and I don't think it is all "people are just not playing in dark rooms or are used to scenes with too much brightness". Dynamic Tone Mapping adds input lag and messes up with original creator intent in unpredictable ways, but it might be the only option to get consistent, pleasant image quality for a long time.
Thanks, understand my mistake now. Was equating DTM off to no tone mapping at all
The difference there is with DTM off you're doing the tone mapping twice. Once on the TV and again on the PS. Can lead to a less accurate picture (or maybe there's little difference, but Vincent explains why it's desirable in the video)
I don't think many people buy OLEDs for popping brightness. The amazing contrast lends itself well to a very accurate image but people can use them any way they want.
If you want to test how dynamic tone mapping is messing up your picture check https://twitter.com/EvilBoris/status/1273979560862846977?s=19
If I calibrate my ps5 using the settings Vincent provided and then use dynamic tone mapping , will it completely ignore the ps5 calibration settings?
The self deprecating stuff is good but that and the SJW gag from another vid last week just completely miss the mark.
As long as a game has an HDR brightness slider it will work with HGIG as intended. The vast majority of games work well with HGIG.
Yep.
If you plan to play with DTM On no need to follow this video.
Need to say the difference between DTM OFF and HGIG is small , and even thought DTM OFF tonemaps, it's only on the brighest detail and can even be beneficial with games that don't follow the PS5 settings and has neither HDR calibration in-game (like FF7 Remake, for putting an example). In this case DTM OFF can show more detail in hightlights without clipping. But yes, with calibration tools HGIG is better due to DTM OFF doing useless work.
It's DTM ON the one that goes to town basically modifying the whole image.
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Which you shouldn't activate in general and everyone who's deep into HDR calibration would tell you that. 🤷♂️
I played hundreds of HDR games in the last 4 months and I almost never had the problem of too dim games. The standard HDR setting of games, sure, but then you calibrate them and it looks great in 95% of all cases. I have way bigger problems with games having raised blacks than games being dim or not popping enough.
What TV settings so I need to mess about with on the C9?
I have it set, currently, to the same settings as used for my brother's Series X.
I have it set, currently, to the same settings as used for my brother's Series X.
Which you shouldn't activate in general and everyone who's deep into HDR calibration would tell you that. 🤷♂️
I played hundreds of HDR games in the last 4 months and I almost never had the problem of too dim games. The standard HDR setting of games, sure, but then you calibrate them and it looks great in 95% of all cases. I have way bigger problems with games having raised blacks than games being dim or not popping enough.
Thanks for that, I'll just leave HGIG on for everything then
It's most important to just make it match your TV. With HDMI 2.1 we can get full RGB with 4K so it's likely auto on the PS5 is giving you full. In which case TV black level should be set to high. If you're saying low black level on the TV looks more accurate then it's because your PS5 is giving you limited RGB, which is fine. Just make the console and TV match. Auto on both would usually do a good job with the TV matching the console output, but in the end make sure it's limited/low or full/high.
More invisible, but I wouldn't follow the post you quoted. For non-HGiG follow the PS5 instructions. Going one past barely visible is to make sure you get closer to the full luminance scale with HGiG enabled sets. For non-HGiG you're supposedly best off setting the slider to as barely visible as possible.
If you have the C9 (I have that as well) you may as well go auto RGB as long as you have a cable capable of handling HDMI 2.1 bandwidth, which I'm guessing the included cable is (I'm using one I bought separately). As a test, set your RGB to auto, then change it to full. Most likely nothing changes because auto is giving you full. Changing it to limited from there would flicker and change it to limited. Go auto on the console and see if this is the case, then set black level on your TV to high to match. You can also stick with limited RGB and low black level on the TV as it'll be fine as long as they match, but you shouldn't have any reason to not want the full RGB range which our TV is capable of with the HDMI 2.1 ports. So again auto on the PS5, change to full temporarily to ensure its giving you full (then put it back to auto), and black level high on the TV to match.
The only time the TV would need to use low black level it seems would be when using the Blu Ray app, but the app switches to SDR apparently. So if you watch a Blu Ray you might want to check your black level within the settings, which should be switched to the SDR settings, and make sure it's set to low if auto is not an option.
Unless anybody believes any of this is wrong I think this should be included in the OP for those who don't have time to read through the thread and take in every bit of information from the video.
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I think step 3 across the board should be set to 0 nits (aka darkest setting) as he mentions LEDs (as well as in addition to OLEDs) will react to 0 nits and turn off backlight at this value (although blooming is a thing if you have something else generating light on the screen). This is true black so is the most accurate. And he also surmises that it lets you adjust above 0 nits in case you need some brighter looking dark areas if you're playing HDR in a non-reference environment (aka a non-pitch black room or a room that exceeds 5 nits ambient lighting). So you could do that if you're especially bothered that, dark areas look too dark, but for accuracy or "true black" it should be set to the darkest.
Also for the PS5's "barely visible" this should be one notch below a full hard clip of the whites.
You're buying a 3500 dollar tv and you're not going to bother making the picture look the best it can? Do you realize how privileged/ flippant that sounds?
If you change the label on the PS5 HDMI to PC you can select auto for black level on C9. Can confirm it works as intended.
<3 you guys.
I saw advice in one of Vincent's videos to change the icon to PC and never understood it (I believe it was one of his). Wow that helps a lot. Thanks. Was seriously wondering how the heck there was no auto setting.
Edit: Hmm. Got it all set up, but if I set PS5 to limited, auto on the TV stays on high black level. Will have to test this later when using a streaming app or Blu Ray.
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As far as the PS5 is discussed, or what's discussed in the video, this is all for the "Adjust HDR" setting so we're only talking about HDR here. The barely visible settings in SDR might be a different conversation, then again I think those SDR games that have you do this only let you adjust one screen, instead of three screens due to the differences between SDR and HDR. I think the same logic might apply to SDR though, ie. One notch below a full hard clip of the symbol if possible. Though otherwise if you can't do that and your TV settings are fairly accurate you might wanna just leave at default IMO.
It kills me that they don't just put the settings in the description of the video. Having to pause and rewind multiple times in a 20 min video to find out specific tv or console settings is such a time waster.
Absolutely. He doesn't articulate his ideas well and the video was a pain to watch.
I believe yes, every game I tested have dimmer result with HGIG. In other thread, someone told me it should be played in dark environment, which it makes sense why it's dim.
I've been doing a lot of reading on this topic across the internet and have settled in on what I find to be excellent results for my 85" Sony X900H (which does not have HGIG settings). The PS5 HDR calibration on the set was done in a pitch black room:
Step 1: It's possible to adjust this so that the sun image will baaaaaaaaaarely show up. For this reason, it wouldn't make sense to go one notch more so that it is fully invisible because of how the PS5 seems to jump forward or backwards a lot of nits with each click. The goal is to maximize the ability of the HDTV, so getting the first setting as close to invisible as possible works well.
Step 2: Vincent's adjustments in the video are done on an HGIG capable set, and he said step two should be the same as the first step. That doesn't work for my non-HGIG X900H. As I click the the values enough, I have to choose between either a faint sun image that is very dim but clearly visible, or a fully invisible sun. From what I read on the 'net, I will benefit more by choosing the invisible option since it will allow the full capability of the HDTV to be used. Yes, there is some extra nit info that can't be used, but unlike if I had made the first setting fully invisible, the jump to the next click here isn't nearly as dramatic, so there won't be any significant issues.
Step 3: Vincent kinda mentions the type of HDTVs that should have this at zero, but I read a more expanded explanation. Putting it at zero applies to OLEDs as well as LEDs that have dimming zones (which the X900H does have). In both types of displays, full black is properly acknowledged with step 3 set at zero.
As I said, the image is absolutely gorgeous once I did it this way for my X900H.
Step 1: It's possible to adjust this so that the sun image will baaaaaaaaaarely show up. For this reason, it wouldn't make sense to go one notch more so that it is fully invisible because of how the PS5 seems to jump forward or backwards a lot of nits with each click. The goal is to maximize the ability of the HDTV, so getting the first setting as close to invisible as possible works well.
Step 2: Vincent's adjustments in the video are done on an HGIG capable set, and he said step two should be the same as the first step. That doesn't work for my non-HGIG X900H. As I click the the values enough, I have to choose between either a faint sun image that is very dim but clearly visible, or a fully invisible sun. From what I read on the 'net, I will benefit more by choosing the invisible option since it will allow the full capability of the HDTV to be used. Yes, there is some extra nit info that can't be used, but unlike if I had made the first setting fully invisible, the jump to the next click here isn't nearly as dramatic, so there won't be any significant issues.
Step 3: Vincent kinda mentions the type of HDTVs that should have this at zero, but I read a more expanded explanation. Putting it at zero applies to OLEDs as well as LEDs that have dimming zones (which the X900H does have). In both types of displays, full black is properly acknowledged with step 3 set at zero.
As I said, the image is absolutely gorgeous once I did it this way for my X900H.