What TV do you have? If you have an oled already you wont notice any bad differences
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HDR games analysed
- Thread starter EvilBoris
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I dont see that on a 5percent screen at all my logo dimming dims the entire screen uniformly. It's not noticable at all unless I watch the football. So for football I just turn off the logo dimming like now I'm watching the fa cup and it dimmed until i turned it offI have it off and it still shows. I mean it wouldn't make sense otherwise. Logo Dimming scans for prolonged static images and dim the area around it, only that. What we are talking is some king of oval halo applied to the whole screen, like this
The banding isn't an issue with OLEDs, it's a Witcher 3 HDR issue. And the vignetting is totally not noticeable, I assure you. You can only see it with near black test pics.
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it's super minor. I wouldn't be concerned. The only place I ever see it is on the grey menus of the Xbox Menus (if you use the dark theme)
I think if you switch to another-picture mode it goes away (with no reduction in latency apparently)
But as someone playing games, I'm happy to try and reduce burn in from huds
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That doesn't sound right, Logo dimming shouldn't dim the whole screen, even in high where the most it dims is half the screen.
Theres posts of it dimming the entire screen it's not noticable unless have it on and turn it off
I have it off and it still shows. I mean it wouldn't make sense otherwise. Logo Dimming scans for prolonged static images and dim the area around it, only that. What we are talking is some king of oval halo applied to the whole screen, like this
The banding isn't an issue with OLEDs, it's a Witcher 3 HDR issue. And the vignetting is totally not noticeable, I assure you. You can only see it with near black test pics and only in SDR Game Mode. It doesn't shows during gameplay. It's not even dimming because you can see it move, it's some weird shit the TV has built in but it totally doesn't show.
Ah, great! That's such a relief. Yeah during my Witcher 3 playthrough last year I noticed banding in the sky as well, but I believe that was especially at nighttime. Another game I remember having bad banding is Inside. Such a shame.
So it's not visible in HDR game mode, playing SDR games it can be visible at times?
Samsung Q9FN, QLED TV. But I've had OLED before. To be exact, the EC9300 and the B6.
Yeah, that's definitely an option I'd probably use for games with very busy and static HUDs that I know I'll be pouring long hours into (Witcher 3 B&W and Monster Hunter World etc) it's good, real good that LG built this feature.
Only in some near black loading screens. Never when the TV shows anything.
I dunno, I really don't know how it works, I doubt it does much considering is not visible but... dunno.
EvilBoris an update on my Witcher 3 banding issue on PS4 Pro:
I loaded the game back up and fiddled with settings and found it was the in game motion blur that was making it so bad.
There is still obvious banding, especially on clear or clearish blue skies, but having motion blur enabled made it look just hideous in motion.
My guess is that the low precision motion blur + existing banding just completely screwed up the image.
So now, while there is banding still, it's gone from unplayable to just a bit irritating and not at all intrusive.
I would recommend anyone else playing Witcher 3 in HDR to disable motion blur in the postprocessing settings (the blur setting has no effect one way or the other).
I loaded the game back up and fiddled with settings and found it was the in game motion blur that was making it so bad.
There is still obvious banding, especially on clear or clearish blue skies, but having motion blur enabled made it look just hideous in motion.
My guess is that the low precision motion blur + existing banding just completely screwed up the image.
So now, while there is banding still, it's gone from unplayable to just a bit irritating and not at all intrusive.
I would recommend anyone else playing Witcher 3 in HDR to disable motion blur in the postprocessing settings (the blur setting has no effect one way or the other).
I have since I bought an hdr TV really struggled to either tell a difference or perceiving any improvement in picture quality. Quite the opposite I think that that in many cases the HDR picture looks washed out, dull and devoid of color. I have been thinking: Is there something wrong with my set up? Do I have the windows settings wrong? Have I been playing the wrong games?
I recently watched digital foundrys analysis of RDR2s hdr-patch, which is one of the few videos out there that actually show a side by side comparison of HDR vs SDR and I realised, it isn't me! This is what it's supposed to look like!
Then I stumbled upon this video:
Which is the first time I've been able to tell a meaningful difference when watching the same video, on the same screen in HDR and then in SDR. When watching in SDR the comparison pictures look the same.
So now I'm realising, I have completely misunderstood what HDR is supposed to be and look like! This is both a stone of my chest, and at the same time I'm starting to think, maybe I actually prefer the punchier picture that comes with most SDR renditions?
I recently watched digital foundrys analysis of RDR2s hdr-patch, which is one of the few videos out there that actually show a side by side comparison of HDR vs SDR and I realised, it isn't me! This is what it's supposed to look like!
Then I stumbled upon this video:
Which is the first time I've been able to tell a meaningful difference when watching the same video, on the same screen in HDR and then in SDR. When watching in SDR the comparison pictures look the same.
So now I'm realising, I have completely misunderstood what HDR is supposed to be and look like! This is both a stone of my chest, and at the same time I'm starting to think, maybe I actually prefer the punchier picture that comes with most SDR renditions?
I started Blood and Wine (which features a new region and has some engine enhancements) and it's totally banding free even in clear skies.
First thing to know is what TV do you have. HDR is very dependant on the specs of your TV, the nits and the contrast it can show. SDR shouldn't be punchier unless it's badly calibrated (something very common tbh, people tend to like their overblown brigthness and contrast).
I came from a ks8000 to a b9 and my b9 has considerably less banding
I got an amazon one huierav. To split for using v2 psvr it was £8 and works a treat at 4;2;2 10 bit
There's also the ibis pro.
Actually sorry that's a switcher not a splitter
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Interesting! So it isn't always the game causing it?
I definitely remember some games having bad banding, Inside being one but also some horror titles which really distracted me. Would be great if the C9 improves on this.
I have a LCD with I think 750 nits, so yeah I know. But from the OLEDs I've seen running the same HDR-demo reels I wouldn't say the differences are big enough to account for my perception.
I do see an improvement in HDR, contrary to what my original post might read as, it's just that the improvement is not what I expected. From what I read beforehand I was looking for eye popping effects, and what I found instead of perhaps a more refined and natural image with extra visibility in highlight.
However the thing with games and desaturated colors and at least perceived loss of contrast, I do believe is an actual thing, no matter what your display is. I've found this to be true in even games with presumably good HDR-implementations like battlefront 2 as well. Would be interesting to know what this is about.
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It is fairly typical of most TV's out of the box to bump up contrast and saturation in order to meet the expectations of what consumers prefer and to get the Wow factor in a retail or home environment.
Funnily enough, when a TV is calibrated, some users actually walk away from a little disappointed that some of the "pop" which they are used to is now removed.
For most TVs this is present in the SDR modes, but for the HDR content, there is actually less room to do make those types of adjustments beyond saturation.
So some of what you are perceiving may actually be a product of your TV doing SDR a little bit more wrong than the HDR.
Another common cause of these kinds of feelings are how HDR actually provides much greater room to create contrast through increasing peak brightmess, which means that shadow detail doesn't need to be crushed or clipped in the same way that it always has been in order to create a perception of contrast.
Properly mastered HDR content often uses a greater range of blacks and near blacks. For many people who have become super accustomed to jet black darkness for anything even close to grey, suddenly everything looks less contrasty.
I often read about these types of complaints from OLED owners, who are accustomed to this jet black , but don't have the upper brightness or overall APL to cause our eyes to react the same as they do for users with brighter displays.
It's also why you will see people raving about Dolby Vision making the image preferable, as it creates an image that sits somewhere between HDR and SDR, sometimes giving that slightly more crushed black look which is a necessity of SDR.
That's an interesting comment about Dolby Vision, I did wonder about the crushed black look in some films. I have seen some Dolby Vision content which doesn't suffer from that too though.
Hey. I was looking to enable hgig on my c9 based on this thread, but after updating my tv the whole dtm option in expert controls has disappeared -- anybody experienced this?
NVM, came back after i launched a gane
NVM, came back after i launched a gane
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That's odd. I'm playing PUBG and I don't see that option in expert controls. I do see dynamic tone mapping and by default it's enabled.
EvilBoris do you think you could make something similar to https://displaylag.com/display-database/ but related to optimal settings for games that have HDR support?
If you don't have the time, I could probably make something easily, but I would still need the info :)
If you don't have the time, I could probably make something easily, but I would still need the info :)
After a break from Battlefront 2, I have to say it has some of the best HDR I've seen this gen. DICE does a great job I just wish Frostbite would support WCG,
perhaps for next gen.
perhaps for next gen.
HGIG came with an update, so you probably need to update your TV. There's an option to check for updates under TV settings.
Aaaah that's the thing. Yeah I saw a prompt for the latest update but decided to hold off first. Needed to know for certain that I can download the latest one without any worries. I had the B6 and with firmware LG dimmed the HDR game mode. So I'm not about to enable auto firmware update.
Also, VRR options (gonna need that for KH3) is that also a thing that appears after latest firmware?
As far as I knw VRR should be working out of the box with HDMI 2.1. It's G-Sync that came with an update too.
You shouldn't worry about updates that dim the panel, atleast now, I should be the one worrying with a C8 lol (joking.... sorta).
Oh that's great. So I don't even need to enable it in the TV settings? I definitely had to do that with the Samsung.
Also, why do people prefer HGIG over dynamic tone mapping? I am not at home now, can't try it myself. But I'm curious!
I'm not sure about the enabled part cause I'm a C8 peasant, but I think not, considering is the standard of the HDMI. Samsung didn't had proper HDMI 2.1.
About HGIG vs Tone Mapping, the thing is that HGIG is more faithful to how the game is originally presented, whereas Tone Mapping is an picture enhancement, so it's less faithful. I don't have HGIG but considering only 2 games are only compatible with HGIG right now (Modern Warfare and No Man's Sky), for the rest, it just disables the tone mapping (with DTM OFF the TV still tone maps).
With tone mapping (especially DTM ON) you get more brigthness, and better white detail, but also can get overblown whites and elevated blacks. I feel like some games handle it better than others.
In a future if all games are HGIG enabled it would be def the best option for everything because game will tell to the panel how to display HDR, so it will be the most accurate setting.
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For any game that has a proper HDR calibration, HGIG is the option to use, as it means the game has full responsibility for tone mapping.
With dynamic tonemapping you have the game's own dynamic tonemapping and exposure adjustments being second-guessed by the Tv.
It's the equivalent of "filmmaker" mode for games.
I tested them both just now in Forza Horizon 4 and notice that DTM makes it slightly more bright while HGIG makes it slightly more dim. But I'll go with what's best, the former.
I was firmly in the HGiG beliefs. However on looking countless times I actually prefer DTM
According to people on AVS there are barely any console games that support HGIG. He told me about No man's Sky and Modern Warfare but not much else. So that would mean if I use HGIG in Forza Horizon 4 for example, it doesn't really work for it. In that case is DTM enabled then?
As for HDR settings for the C9...
What is best for RDR2? Because the current settings, especially during nighttime in the game look a bit off.
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The HGIG option functions exactly as it should in Forza, it's just that Forza doesn't configure itself automatically, you set it yourself in the menu.
That's all "supported" games do, they configure themselves as per the OS
If games look too dim or dark after correctly setting it up, the use the in game brightness adjustment, as this will give less banding than a post process like DTM will.
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High Dynamic Range Gaming Interest groups (HGIG) offers multiple recommendations for developers, console makers and TV makers.
It's not a system they only engages when a console/game console configure themselves correctly.
In the case of the LG sets, LG caused a bunch of problems by utilising a display mapper that crammed 4000nits of detail into 600nits displays.
Enabling the HGIG setting just makes the TV behave as it should have since they launched them 4 years ago.
If you are playing a game that supports the PS4's HDR setup (which is based on the HGIG guidelines) , then all this serves to do is remove the HDR setup in game, configuring itself using the PS4's internal configuration.
I wanted to check the Fifa 20 demo for the HDR calibration but I couldn't find the demo at all under ready to install on Xbox. I did download it last year. And then I checked the store and it's gone there as well. Shit!
This was a good way to check what I should choose for other games with HDR.
This was a good way to check what I should choose for other games with HDR.
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I played a round of BF1 yesterday on a night map and HDR looked fantastic on the C9. I set the in game HDR adjustment to 800 nits. Elements like spotlights, the moon, explosions, tracer fire all looked punchy. Using HGiG really works.
Nice, I have both games!
I'm in the HDR options of the game now and it seems the boxes become fully white at 780. Which is exactly right because I googled it, the C9 is 780 nits. I think I'll leave it here. Or maybe 800, because that's what I need to set it at in RDR2 for the logo to dissappear.
Speaking of RDR2, what to do with paper white? Because I can't get the logo to disappear. This is in HDR style : Game.
On all Frostbite games Ive tested my white blends exactly at 800 nits. Keep in mind not all LG OLED panels are exactly the same. My first C9 65" had a peak brightness of 650 nits then it decided to crap out. My replacement hits 747 nits and looks noticeably brighter I had both professionally calibrated. While rare there are some C9/E9 panels that can hit 800+ on a 10% window. Panel variance is a real thing.
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yeah, that's exactly how it should work.
BF1 is a really well done game
Just set paper white on 200 and be done with it
Oh wow, I had no idea that was a thing. How can you see for yourself how many nits your screen is? For me at 780 the logo dissapears in RDR2, does that definitely mean my panel is 780?
I did it just now but I still find the night to look somewhat, I don't know....washed out, a little too bright too. Been trying out more games, such as Shadow of the Tomb Raider and I honestly prefer SDR in that game when it comes to black levels. They seem a bit elevated in the market area at the beginning of the game. It looks proper dark with SDR enabled in the game, odd.
Like I stated my C9 peak was 747 nits but I can set tone mapping in BF1 to 800. Most likely your TV is around 700 nits which is LG's goal out of the factory. Most likely Frostbite's tone mapping stretches the dynamic range a little.
The most recent patch has totally messed up HDR in metro exodus on pc. Now Everything is grey and washed out on my oled and I have to decrease brightness from 50 to 40(!) to get the nice inky blacks the game had before. I just cannot play the new DLC under these conditions. Doesnt look like they have fixed HDR when using DLSS either, as you can no longer see the sun when enabling it. Using a 2080 ti on a C9 oled.
Frostbite games (on PC) act weird for me from what I remember. For some reason, after I did the Windows 10 April update 2 years ago, Battlefront 2 started requiring me to increase the hdr10 brightness slider higher than my usual settings. Same thing with Battlefield 1, where 1000 was the perfect setting for my ks9000 (at least, according to the game calibration screen), but post-update required me to bump that up to 1500 to get both boxes to be the same shade of white. Not sure if it was the Windows update, or the games' themselves.
Is there any experience with HDR on The Division 2 here? Recently got the game but from what I've read so far I've just seen people complaining about poor HDR implementation.
On another note - I'm having issues with HDR on Destiny 2 as well. It just loses waaay too much detail in dark scenes/objects to the point of significantly harming gameplay. Have I just calibrated it wrongly? Again I'm seeing a lot of people complaining about the same issue online but maybe they've all got it wrongly set up too.
Honestly really disappointed with HDR so far, it seems to have far too many issues in games. The only game I regularly play that actually had well done HDR seems to be Rocket League.
On another note - I'm having issues with HDR on Destiny 2 as well. It just loses waaay too much detail in dark scenes/objects to the point of significantly harming gameplay. Have I just calibrated it wrongly? Again I'm seeing a lot of people complaining about the same issue online but maybe they've all got it wrongly set up too.
Honestly really disappointed with HDR so far, it seems to have far too many issues in games. The only game I regularly play that actually had well done HDR seems to be Rocket League.
