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HDMI 2.1 Bug on 2020 AV Receivers Affects Xbox Series X but Not PS5
- Thread starter Deleted member 12323
- Start date
Nothing new, happens frequently when new consoles with (relatively) new tech appear. X360 launched without HDMI.
Isn't it a VRR issue, and the PS5 doesn't (currently?) have VRR?
Either way, it is an issue with the AMPs and the manufacturers are aware.
Either way, it is an issue with the AMPs and the manufacturers are aware.
OP
OP
Can we get a summary? I just bought a new receiver and didn't get a 2.1 because of this nonsense. If there's hope it works for at least PS5 I might get a different receiver.
Vincent says it's a hardware issue not software, but we'll see if something happens
It's been so frustrating this generation trying to get all of these HDMI 2.1 things working out. I got a new LG CX and thought I would be okay, then learned my receiver didn't support earc and that the HDMI 2.1 problems meant that getting a new one wasn't going to work either.
I think even when my new receiver gets here (Denon X2600h) I will need to use 7.1 pcm to avoid audio delays.
I think even when my new receiver gets here (Denon X2600h) I will need to use 7.1 pcm to avoid audio delays.
Does using arc definitely cause a delay? Can you use optical for audio?
My CX arrives tomorrow and I terrified of unpacking it let alone HDMI issues
I just bought a refurbished Denon x4700h and the Xbox series X definitely says the receiver doesn't support a 120 Hz signal when it really should. My PS5 seemed to work just fine. I assume Denon will fix our receivers for us next year...
You mean after all this I'm not getting uncompressed pixels after all?
So Xbox is able to do full RGB 4k120 due to DSC? Interesting. I also didn't know TVs supported that yet.
DSC is lossless compression.
Honestly other people can explain it more clearly, but arc (not earc) doesn't output higher than stereo with my XSX and Onkyo receiver. If you have an earc audio device and you try to bitstream (for Dolby) you get a delay that you can't fix. I'm not even sure where the blame lies, but I think it's an LG problem.
So your only options are use PCM or try a sharc by thenaudio
Lossless compression.
Yes - when I go in to the hidden video status menu on the C9, it shows full RGB at 4k 120hz on XSX.
It's an LG problem. DTS used to work OK when I had this on my C7, have you tried that?
I know - was just making a joke about that weird uncompressed pixels PR from a while back.
The PS5 currently only outputs a 32gbps HDMI signal due to sending a maximum of 4k120hz @ 4:2:2 Chroma Subsample (to simplify into a sentence, lower color and light resolution). The Xbox Series outputs a 40gbps signal as it's a full 4k120hz @ 4:4:4 RGB (no Chroma Subsampling).
Technically neither console supports the full HDMI 2.1 spec (48gbps), which I believe would allow 4k 120hz @ 12-bit signal color depths (vs. 10-bit that's supported).
The chipset in 2020 AVRs seems to be faulty and don't support 4k120hz 4:4:4. If you're a gamer, even if you own just a PS5, I highly recommend holding off from picking up an AVR system this year. There is eARC to solve some of these limitations but ARC has its own issues in my personal experience (audio latency, TVs not supporting all audio formats, etc).
This is what makes it an issue, since Xbox is the only console that can do Atmos in games, and the only way to connect it to get all the new features and atmos is to use eARC. The latency with that set up is unplayable IMO. You do a roll in gears, and you don't hear them hitting the ground until your character is nearly back on their feet.
There is no good way right now to play at 120fps and with atmos on Xbox.
I don't get latency on PS5 when playing blu-ray discs with atmos support via eARC, but of course it doesn't support atmos in games right now.
This sums it up pretty well. If (when?) the PS5 gets a patch that lets you turn off subsampling you'll have the issue if you try to go through the receiver (unless they manage to fix it via firmware and go around the chip issue).
This is why my current receiver has been given one more year of service.
It`s not though ? According to the video it is an issue when using compression in the display signal. The RTX 3080 managed 40Gbps just fine.
The Xbox Series uses Display Stream Compression (DSC), a lossless way of obtaining its HDMI 40gbps datarate. PlayStation 5 achieves an HDMI datarate of 32gbs, which is achieved by using a Fixed Link Rate (FRL). The Xbox achieves a better fidelity image (full 4:4:4 vs 4:2:2 Chroma Subsampling on the PS5), but it seems 2020 AVR systems have a hardware incompatibility and are unable to resolve the signal from devices that output a full DSC signal, in this case the Xbox Series).
In my experience, using ARC introduces audio latency. You can use optical output from your TV and send it to your AVR. It won't support the lossless surround formats that a direct HDMI connection to your AVR can provide but it will have the same capabilities that ARC has (with no audio latency to boot).
Yep. To elaborate: ARC (not eARC) is practically identical to optical in regards to audio support (uncompressed stereo or compressed surround sound), albeit with the additional downside of introducing extra audio latency.
eARC, while compatible with additional audio formats, still suffers from audio latency issues as you mentioned. Plus, not all TVs are able to export all audio formats via eARC either (e.g. the LG CX is unable to output DTS:X via eARC; this is due to the limited EDIF size, the metadata that accompanies an HDMI signal).
So to conclude: I would usually recommend connecting your console directly to your AVR system... But with the current state of 2020 AVR systems, you will have to either sacrifice something in the process whether you connect the system directly to your display or to the AVR system. So unfortunately, there is no correct answer (other than "wait to see what 2021 offers").
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It's 2 separate issues with the receiver. The receiver can't handle more than 40 Gbps (and the 3080 was also having intermittent issues because it is bumping up against this limit). The receiver also can't handle DSC.
I was looking into HDMI2.1 receivers a while back but they all seemed to only offer one 2.1 port? I have both consoles so that wouldn't have worked anyway...
huh? I'm confused by this. My Denon 4700h has 8 HDMI inputs, but only one is 8K compatible. Is this what you're talking about?
Same difference; your Denon 4700h can support one HDMI 2.1 device at its full capabilities (e.g. 4k120hz VRR, 8k60hz, etc).
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Yeah that seems incredibly shortsighted by the AVR makers. Some TVs has the same problem as well.
Its been said a lot, but Vincent is a godsend. Great video, will hold off on AV upgrade until some of these bugs are worked out.
These Gen 1 HDMI 2.1 issues are why I skipped the LG CX, as badly as I want/need one right now.
Seems like every issue is hardware and will only be fixed by the release of 2021 revisions. So I wait until next year.
Seems like every issue is hardware and will only be fixed by the release of 2021 revisions. So I wait until next year.
I have a Samsung Q90T TV and a Samsung HW-Q70T Atmos sound bar and I had vicious audio lag when playing any game with Atmos enabled. I was able to fix is by putting my tv in pass through mode. Both devices support eArc.
I keep finding DSC described as "visually" lossless, which just sounds like spin for lossy.
10K Resolution at 120Hz Display: A Reality Today with DSC 1.2 in HDMI 2.1 | Synopsys
Can 4K120 HDR 4:4:4 not be reached without it? Why implement it?
10K Resolution at 120Hz Display: A Reality Today with DSC 1.2 in HDMI 2.1 | Synopsys
Can 4K120 HDR 4:4:4 not be reached without it? Why implement it?
The 2020 Yamaha RX-V6A and RX-V4A have 3 and 4 HDMI 2.1 ports respectively. Still affected by the same HDMI 2.1 bug though.
I just bought the V4A. With the PS5 I only got 422 with it. So I just use eArc and plug everything into the tv and it works fine.
Nvidia cards are unstable too. Oof.
If you have a receiver that supports the audio formats you need, you're probably better off getting a SHARC and just keep using your receiver. Or just waiting til next year's models which hopefully have a working chip and more HDMI 2.1 inputs. I see no reason why a receiver, something that should last many years, shouldn't have full 48Gbps support just for future compatibility either.
The Series X does send a 40Gbps signal (4L10). Maybe it is flagged to use DSC to support other signals above 40Gbps? And the Panasonic chip doesn't like it or something, even though every HDMI 2.1 display out there has no issue with it. Just guessing here.
As for DSC, if you can't see the difference with visual observation, then I don't think it matters anyway. If displays support it, then the receivers should support it, plain and simple.
Edit: Another thing you could speculate is the reason the PS5 is stable is because it's being limited to 32Gbps, and the nvidia is unstable at 40Gbps. The PS5 also uses a panasonic chip, and maybe they discovered something that the receiver manufacturers were not aware of and that's why they made the odd decision to limit it to 32Gbps. The whole thing is a mess.
If you have a receiver that supports the audio formats you need, you're probably better off getting a SHARC and just keep using your receiver. Or just waiting til next year's models which hopefully have a working chip and more HDMI 2.1 inputs. I see no reason why a receiver, something that should last many years, shouldn't have full 48Gbps support just for future compatibility either.
The Series X does send a 40Gbps signal (4L10). Maybe it is flagged to use DSC to support other signals above 40Gbps? And the Panasonic chip doesn't like it or something, even though every HDMI 2.1 display out there has no issue with it. Just guessing here.
As for DSC, if you can't see the difference with visual observation, then I don't think it matters anyway. If displays support it, then the receivers should support it, plain and simple.
Edit: Another thing you could speculate is the reason the PS5 is stable is because it's being limited to 32Gbps, and the nvidia is unstable at 40Gbps. The PS5 also uses a panasonic chip, and maybe they discovered something that the receiver manufacturers were not aware of and that's why they made the odd decision to limit it to 32Gbps. The whole thing is a mess.
The more time I spend on Era the more I realize how much of a casual I am because I literally just connect the consoles and play. All this VRR, DACs, AV receivers , Tempest, HDMI bandwith, memory cooling, and all this other shit that I see people posting about the issues they're having is like rocket science to me.
The HDMI ports on the LG CX is capped to 40gbps (vs. the full HDMI 2.1 bandwidth of 48Gbps). This could be problematic for 12-bit content down the road. The other issue with the LG CX is that it does not support DTS:X over eARC.
There are also minor issues plaguing all 2020 TVs due to the limited EDIF metadata size. e.g. The LG CX doesn't support DTS:X over eARC, Sony is unable to support both VRR and Dolby Vision simultaneously, etc.
It's not an issue with the Xbox, it's an with the receiver which can't deal with the HDMI 2.1 standard of DSC.
I tried a sharc and I had to re-enable earc every time I turned on my LG CX and it also meant that I couldn't use my other devices through my receiver and everything has to go through the TV or a switcher. I just put that money towards a new receiver.