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HotHamBoy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,423
I don't have a viable way to play New Vegas outside of digging up my PS3 and there is no way I'm playing through that version again.

Would kill just for a straight port to Switch, though.


I love how the game went from being ragged on as a Fallout 3's buggy "expansion" when it released to being generally acknowledge as being the best of the 3d Fallouts. Puts a smile on this jaded old man's face. For me the most disappointing thing about Fallout 4 is that it seems Bethesda didn't bother to learn a damn thing from NV.
And with Fallout 76 they just destroyed whatever enjoyment was left.

it's definitely true that NV has seen a true rehabilitation over the last gen. I'd actually forgotten that it was originally sort of dismissed out of hand.
 

Richietto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,994
North Carolina
U guys think this game still holds up? Thinking of just diving into it

finished fo4 and found the ending weak and played some NV on ps3 but never beat it

wonder if mods would help the experience on pc. Would make for a nice Christmas break game
Yes it holds up very well. Still one of my favorite RPG's ever made. There are definitely a shit ton of mods that spruce up the parts of the game that may have not aged as well but the game as is is still fantastic. Someone in the topic posted a video about some of the great mods for the game.
 

nemorrhoids

Member
Oct 22, 2018
384
I watched the whole video last night, and it simultaneously made me depressed that I don't like isometric RPGs and really excited to play New Vegas again.
It's a shame that the experience closest to New Vegas is found in old CRPGs, because it's a genre that just really doesn't click with me. Guess I just gotta play New Vegas and Disco Elysium ad naseum.
 

MattyG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,031
I watched the whole video last night, and it simultaneously made me depressed that I don't like isometric RPGs and really excited to play New Vegas again.
It's a shame that the experience closest to New Vegas is found in old CRPGs, because it's a genre that just really doesn't click with me. Guess I just gotta play New Vegas and Disco Elysium ad naseum.
Just out of genuine curiosity, what is it about Disco Elysium that clicks for you that doesn't in other isometric CRPGs?
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,216
Brazil
U guys think this game still holds up? Thinking of just diving into it

finished fo4 and found the ending weak and played some NV on ps3 but never beat it

wonder if mods would help the experience on pc. Would make for a nice Christmas break game
It absolutely holds up. Performance is not great on PS3, but it's playable from start to finish with longer load times and some freezing when you're reaching about 80 hours of playtime. Nothing awful and no huge losses of progress thanks to the constant auto-saving. I did at least 5 full playthroughs on this version (one for each main story path and one for hardcore mode) and got a platinum trophy without running into any game-breaking bug.

If you don't care about mods, the 360 version works wonderfully on any Xbox One/Series console via BC. I replayed it early this year on the One S without any problems save for getting stuck on a loading screen once or twice, and now I'm replaying it again on the Series X and having a hell of a time with near-instant load times. The 360 version is really stable and I prefer it over the PS3 version since it has better performance and better load times.

The PC version allows you to add a shit ton of mods and unofficial patches that will arguably give the game many QOL improvements and eye candy, but you need to be careful with stuff such as load order, conflicting mods and running so much stuff at the same time it might end up tanking your performance. I honestly think the vanilla game plus all the DLC is all you really need.
 

nemorrhoids

Member
Oct 22, 2018
384
Just out of genuine curiosity, what is it about Disco Elysium that clicks for you that doesn't in other isometric CRPGs?
I honestly think it's the lack of combat and number-crunching. I get very bored when a game asks me to understand old editions of D&D and whatnot. My most recent point of reference is Planescape: Torment, which I dropped like two-thirds of the way through because the combat was mind-numbing. I wanted to love it, but couldn't bring myself to finish. Disco Elysium is nothing but reading and speech checks, which are the fun parts of roleplaying for me.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,742
This video made me so sad. New Vegas is so good, and I would love to replay it, but I don't have hardware that can run it anymore now that my PC is fucked to death, and the PS5 is never going to get anything like it ever again.

Sigh.
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
I dug around and found that some RWBY fans got really mad about the video and went scouring for his Something Awful posts from 2012 where he says RWBY is kind of crap, Poser is a horrible animation software and that Monty Oum is only a genius when it comes to only one specific thing, fight animation (Which is all true). This got a lot of people thinking he lied in the video about liking Mounty Oum so he could "appear more neutral".

In a video that he didn't really need to be neutral. As he said himself, "RWBY is horrible and here is why" would probably perform much better in the algorythm.
Huh.

This is about on par with what I'd expect from Reddit.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,742
I watched the whole video last night, and it simultaneously made me depressed that I don't like isometric RPGs and really excited to play New Vegas again.
It's a shame that the experience closest to New Vegas is found in old CRPGs, because it's a genre that just really doesn't click with me. Guess I just gotta play New Vegas and Disco Elysium ad naseum.

I feel this. I can't connect with isometric RPGs at all.
 
Feb 24, 2018
5,239
I don't think New Vegas' combat actually works like this. If your attack physically connects with the target it hits them. Stats/skills instead determine things like weapon sway and damage. I'm also pretty sure that the last game bethesda made with random probability-based hit detection was Morrowind. Everything since then has followed the "if it hits physically it deals damage" style of hit detection.

The reason the combat in Fallout 3 (and New Vegas) feels bad is because Bethesda didn't really have a ton of experience with First Person Shooters and so the games didn't really have great gunplay, feedback, and sound design. I do agree though that FO4 has significantly better combat in terms of gunplay but that's to be expected since it came out 5 years after New Vegas.
I am now very confused then why so many people when I was looking this up before were saying it did work like that then (especially on Reddit) and stuff like "It's an RPG not an FPS" etc.

Even then, the combat has been a massive hinderance for me because it gets in the way, like with ME1, why does this game have so much combat when they knew it wasn't good because it makes the game feel tedious when I'm constantly harassed by Legion assassins or Powder Gangers when all I want is go to towns and do sidequests and stories. Plus it's not help that health items are way more expensive here then any other FO game and get things like Stimpak are rare to find.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,742
I dunno what it is, if you took New Vegas and turned it isometric with the classic Fallout combat I probably would never have finished it. I love RPG storylines, but I hate RPG gameplay.

Yeah. I don't know why, but I find it impossible to connect with characters or worlds in the isometric style. The gameplay is often so sluggish, and mired in ancient D&D design tropes, that it just bores me to death. I've given them so many tries and I never make it more than 10 hours in before I just bail to go play something more engaging.

I imagine part of it is that I completely missed the boat on the early '90s CRPG renaissance - as a kid who grew up with a dad who did all of his work on Macs, my computer game options were limited to, like, Blizzard and Bungie games and AOL shareware. As a result, I just have zero nostalgia for that kind of game design, so it's hard for me to play the games that try to recreate that style of play but with better graphics.
 
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Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,022
Time to reinstall New Vegas again, I suppose.
Though it is long, this was a good watch and does an excellent job of explaining why the game is great.

I honestly don't get what makes it different to 3. I played a few hours but didn't get super far into it.
Admittedly this was like 6 or so years ago, so it also hadn't aged very well.
I know that it's a bit of a crazy idea, but you could try watching the video which goes into detail about just why New Vegas is so much better than Fallout 3.

So I noticed this in his Fallout 3 video and this shows up again in this video were HBomberguy thinks that video games where some guy who talks about the failures of democracy and we should have fascist dictatorship makes for good storytelling, and it just weirds me out. Like the guy admits that Ceasar is just some guy called Edward Sallow larping as Julius Caesar going around subjugating and slaughtering people, and earlier he states that his playing the Evil Legion route but feels the need for some reason to defend their views later in the video.
It seems like you have misinterpreted the point that was being made, as it's certainly not a defense of Caesar or the Legion's views.

I am now very confused then why so many people when I was looking this up before were saying it did work like that then (especially on Reddit) and stuff like "It's an RPG not an FPS" etc.

Even then, the combat has been a massive hinderance for me because it gets in the way, like with ME1, why does this game have so much combat when they knew it wasn't good because it makes the game feel tedious when I'm constantly harassed by Legion assassins or Powder Gangers when all I want is go to towns and do sidequests and stories. Plus it's not help that health items are way more expensive here then any other FO game and get things like Stimpak are rare to find.
The combat is stat-based, but not in the Morrowind vein of watching your character hit the enemy and "miss" - which I was fine with at the time when I first played that game, but would find difficult to go back to now.
If you hit something in New Vegas, you hit it; but you might not do much damage if you're using a weak weapon or your stats are bad.
I don't think that makes the combat itself inherently bad; it's just not an FPS/action game.

Yeah. I don't know why, but I find it impossible to connect with characters or worlds in the isometric style. The gameplay is often so sluggish, and mired in ancient D&D design tropes, that it just bores me to death. I've given them so many tries and I never make it more than 10 hours in before I just bail to go play something more engaging.

I imagine part of it is that I completely missed the boat on the early '90s CRPG renaissance - as a kid who grew up with a dad who did all of his work on Macs, my computer game options were limited to, like, Blizzard and Bungie games and AOL shareware. As a result, I just have zero nostalgia for that kind of game design, so it's hard for me to play the games that try to recreate that style of play but with better graphics.
nemorrhoids

You aren't alone.
Despite having an abundance of patience and free time back then, being into things like choose your own adventure books and fantasy novels, being the kid that tried to get others to play Dungeons and Dragons with First Quest (that never worked out), absolutely none of these games resonated with me at all.
I started with Baldur's Gate in '99 as it came bundled with a DVD drive along with The X-Files Game, because those were good show-cases of the new format rather than the retail releases spread across multiple CDs.
I had a friend that was obsessed with the first two Fallout games and loaned them to me, I picked up Planescape Torment because it was heralded as a high point for the genre, and I bought Baldur's Gate 2 because another friend wanted to play that in co-op.

It's not for a lack of trying, but none of the 'classic' CRPGs have ever really resonated with me.
The only real-time with pause game I can think of that I actually finished was Knights of the Old Republic - and I think it says a lot about the game when I managed that, and I don't even like Star Wars.

That's not to say I dislike isometric games - I really enjoyed the recent XCOMs for example; but I was just never able to get into isometric CRPGs that used RTWP combat.
The closest I've ever gotten to enjoying a CRPG so far has been starting Disco Elysium recently, which I have played a few hours of so far; but I put that on hold after the announcement of an update to add full voice acting.
 

IMACOMPUTA

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,534
Back when this came out I had just finished Fallout 3. I was so done with Fallout 3 by the end, that I never even gave this game a chance.. thinking it was more of the same.
Watching this video, I feel like a real doofus. The way NV is designed is really fascinating.

Does The Outer Worlds come close?
 

texhnolyze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,176
Indonesia
Yeah. I don't know why, but I find it impossible to connect with characters or worlds in the isometric style. The gameplay is often so sluggish, and mired in ancient D&D design tropes, that it just bores me to death. I've given them so many tries and I never make it more than 10 hours in before I just bail to go play something more engaging.

I imagine part of it is that I completely missed the boat on the early '90s CRPG renaissance - as a kid who grew up with a dad who did all of his work on Macs, my computer game options were limited to, like, Blizzard and Bungie games and AOL shareware. As a result, I just have zero nostalgia for that kind of game design, so it's hard for me to play the games that try to recreate that style of play but with better graphics.
I see where you're coming from. In most CRPGs, the dialogue is presented in a box, with a portrait of the one speaking and another. In New Vegas (or Bethesda RPGs in general), the dialogue is presented in first person, complete with their animation and expressions. This is important for immersion and getting to know the characters.

Baldur's Gate 3 is supposed to fix this issue by moving the camera to first (or second?) person in dialogue, but it reverts back to free isometric in exploration and combat.

Back when this came out I had just finished Fallout 3. I was so done with Fallout 3 by the end, that I never even gave this game a chance.. thinking it was more of the same.
Watching this video, I feel like a real doofus. The way NV is designed is really fascinating.

Does The Outer Worlds come close?
Nah, it fell flat compared to New Vegas.
 

Dremorak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,719
New Zealand
I know that it's a bit of a crazy idea, but you could try watching the video which goes into detail about just why New Vegas is so much better than Fallout 3.
It may be crazy, but I did watch most of the video and still didn't have a very good idea. It all sounded mostly like stuff you find in 3 to me.

Someone else in the thread explained it a bit better though
 

Aldo

Member
Mar 19, 2019
1,723
Even if I have never finished a playthrough as I had to start again due to bugs (once on 360 at launch and later on PC), this game always stayed with me as the golden standard of RPGs along with Deus Ex. Now I'll have to play again hoping there will be no more game breaking bugs.
 

Yossarian

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,264
Yeah. I don't know why, but I find it impossible to connect with characters or worlds in the isometric style. The gameplay is often so sluggish, and mired in ancient D&D design tropes, that it just bores me to death. I've given them so many tries and I never make it more than 10 hours in before I just bail to go play something more engaging.

I imagine part of it is that I completely missed the boat on the early '90s CRPG renaissance - as a kid who grew up with a dad who did all of his work on Macs, my computer game options were limited to, like, Blizzard and Bungie games and AOL shareware. As a result, I just have zero nostalgia for that kind of game design, so it's hard for me to play the games that try to recreate that style of play but with better graphics.

Have you tried Disco Elysium? It might change your mind.
 

Hazz3r

Member
Nov 3, 2017
2,137
I have one main criticism of Fallout New Vegas and it relates to the Moral dilemmas that were mentioned in the video. Absolutely, the game presents you with interesting moral dilemmas where there is absolutely no universally agreed 'right' choice. But the problem is that those moral dilemmas almost always clearly signpost who is going to benefit and who is going to lose because of those choices. Fallout New Vegas, to my knowledge, never presents the player with far reaching consequences of their decisions, that may not have been intended, and probably aren't explicitly desired.

The NCR Farm quest is a great example of this. Because absolutely there's a great lore moment where the farmers abandon the farm and head back to New California. But we don't feel the effects of that in the game. There isn't suddenly a shortage of food. The crops continue to grow as normal. There aren't any NCR outposts or camps that are forced to withdraw because there is no longer enough food to support the soldiers stationed there.

In many ways, this quest presents the same argument we levied at Fallout 3's water shortage, and the lack of evidence for that in the world outside of people just telling you there is a water shortage. We have just made a significant decision that should in some way alter the NCRs ability to control the region. But it just doesn't.

hbomberguy rightly mentions the death squads of both the Legion and the NCR, and they drastically alter the way you play the game. But they're unfortunately too general, being purely a function of your faction reputation. This is shown by the game itself during the endgame. If you fail Beware the Wrath of Caesar but have done enough for Caesar's Legion to become Idolised, you are 'declared an enemy of the Legion in perpetuity' yet the faction will still only consider you a Wild Child and not send the Death Squads after you.

So regardless of the way you interpret the dilemma in question, it still opens itself to minmaxing. If you don't particularly care about the independent Vegas, and still need to build up your NCR Fame, then turning Westside in is the obvious choice, the opposite is also true, if you have enough NCR fame to get by, then you're more likely to let Westside get away with it.

In some ways, this is a good thing, as it means that the player is being forced to actively consider their relationship with the factions they will be helping or hindering before making an active decision, but a combination of imperfect gameplay systems, and more importantly, a lack of unforeseen consequences, makes this far too easy to manage what should be complex political relationships. As much as New Vegas feels like a world that's alive, these limitations do the exact opposite.

It's this exact thing that I think the Witcher 3 improves on New Vegas. In the Witcher 3 you're still making choices and you're still seeing the immediate consequences of those stories. But you're also seeing the unintended stuff too, some of which you really would have rather avoided. What's particularly interesting is that The Witcher 3 can't do this all the time. Geralt is a character that is fixed, and a world that works a certain way and a Story that needs to be told a certain way. Witcher 3 itself has limitations on how far it can go with its far reaching consequences, but these limitations are in a way that a game like New Vegas, or a future Obisidian developed RPG, would almost certainly not be shackled to.

Regardless, New Vegas is one of the best games ever made. It's absolute genius, releasing at time when the RPG genre was slowly become an action adventure game but with a level up screen. This is a great video.
 
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PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,742
Have you tried Disco Elysium? It might change your mind.

Nope. One of the core issues I have with isometric games is that I find it extremely hard to care about a story when the bulk of the game's story delivery is zoomed-out, low-detail paper dolls standing around in generic poses while I select barely-diegetic dialogue responses from lists and static character portraits stare blankly at me.

Disco Elysium, as far as I've seen, is just that. There is no other gameplay at all beyond talking. It basically seems to me like an isometric visual novel, and I do not enjoy visual novels. Without some kind of gameplay to break up all the dialogue, my ADHD is just going to make me lose interest and bail to play something else that's more engaging.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,707
Nope. One of the core issues I have with isometric games is that I find it extremely hard to care about a story when the bulk of the game's story delivery is zoomed-out, low-detail paper dolls standing around in generic poses while I select barely-diegetic dialogue responses from lists and static character portraits stare blankly at me.

Disco Elysium, as far as I've seen, is just that. There is no other gameplay at all beyond talking. It basically seems to me like an isometric visual novel, and I do not enjoy visual novels. Without some kind of gameplay to break up all the dialogue, my ADHD is just going to make me lose interest and bail to play something else that's more engaging.
As someone whose sooooooooorta in the same boat, I stuck with another Isometric RPG and I kind of just ended up caring via brute force.

I swear,I have the same experience where I find it difficult to get past the overhead point of view and the sheer walls of text and all that. I think I had about 8 hours on that game before I actually pushed myself to commit to the end, and now I really like that world and consider ita very unique experience.

This is while that Isometric RPG was considered, by the standards of other iso-rpgs, fairly middle of the road and not particularly great or unique.

I'm not saying you have to push through it if you really don't want to, but I just wanted to give my two cents as someone who was basically in the same position. I had a lot of trouble engaging it, but it eventually clicked.
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,421
The NCR Farm quest is a great example of this. Because absolutely there's a great lore moment where the farmers abandon the farm and head back to New California. But we don't feel the effects of that in the game. There isn't suddenly a shortage of food. The crops continue to grow as normal. There aren't any NCR outposts or camps that are forced to withdraw because there is no longer enough food to support the soldiers stationed there.

This is not really something you can show in gameplay though. Sure, the player might take ages to beat the game, but the logic of it is that its happening in a limited amount of time, weeks-months at most. The shortage is already happening when the game starts, but just because you solved the quest in a way and the farmers went back to california it wouldnt make sense for camps to start disbanding immediately after, specially right before the hoover dam battle (that in game terms is happening right around the corner even when most players do them years later or never at all)

Plus, it should go both ways on demanding immediate consequences - if the player helps Hildern with Vault 22 data, they give the NCR a new way of growing food. So even if the farms went home, it wouldnt make sense for them to have a shortage anyway.
 

Night

Late to the party
Member
Nov 1, 2017
5,116
Clearwater, FL
Nope. One of the core issues I have with isometric games is that I find it extremely hard to care about a story when the bulk of the game's story delivery is zoomed-out, low-detail paper dolls standing around in generic poses while I select barely-diegetic dialogue responses from lists and static character portraits stare blankly at me.

Disco Elysium, as far as I've seen, is just that. There is no other gameplay at all beyond talking. It basically seems to me like an isometric visual novel, and I do not enjoy visual novels. Without some kind of gameplay to break up all the dialogue, my ADHD is just going to make me lose interest and bail to play something else that's more engaging.

You nailed why I care very little about Disco Elysium regardless of the massive praise heaped upon it. It can't keep me interested.
 

Hero Prinny

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,192
I really hope one day we're able to get a true sequel/successor to New Vegas. Hopefully when that hypothetical day comes, its made on an engine that is just as moddable as the one New Vegas was built on. Imho what makes New Vegas my favorite game is that not only the base package is amazing, but Modding it on pc gives it basically an all new life with great fully voiced fan made quests, companions, new mechanics, new places to explore, etc.
 

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,693
Does The Outer Worlds come close?
Nah, it fell flat compared to New Vegas.
I'm curious. We know that Obsidian made both of them, but how many of the NV crew were actually still around to work on Outer Worlds? Or was it a case of them trying to recapture the magic, but not really knowing what it was that made NV work so well because the original team was long gone?
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,421
I really hope one day we're able to get a true sequel/successor to New Vegas. Hopefully when that hypothetical day comes, its made on an engine that is just as moddable as the one New Vegas was built on. Imho what makes New Vegas my favorite game is that not only the base package is amazing, but Modding it on pc gives it basically an all new life with great fully voiced fan made quests, companions, new mechanics, new places to explore, etc.

I don't think the game needs or even have enough hook for a sequel. It's too open to make one, picking a canon everything would just piss more people than please.

I would love a remaster with the cut/planned content added to it, though.

I'm curious. We know that Obsidian made both of them, but how many of the NV crew were actually still around to work on Outer Worlds? Or was it a case of them trying to recapture the magic, but not really knowing what it was that made NV work so well because the original team was long gone?

from FNV to TOW they lost avellone and john gonzalez afaik

but it just wasnt a setting as interesting or fleshed out as fallout is now though. for a first attempt of a new ip, its okay. "problem" is, people expect more than just ok from obsidian
 

Tremorah

Member
Dec 3, 2018
4,953
My view of New Vegas is forever tainted by my initial playthrough at launch, riddled with bugs and quest breaking glitches.

Yep, going through Cyberpunk has been a similar experience minus that it didnt crash on me once where NV crashed constantly, there has been SO many similar bugs in CB though its bizarre considering NV game out 10 years ago
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,742
I'm curious. We know that Obsidian made both of them, but how many of the NV crew were actually still around to work on Outer Worlds? Or was it a case of them trying to recapture the magic, but not really knowing what it was that made NV work so well because the original team was long gone?

As far as I know, a lot of the most important folks to the FONV dev process are gone. I don't know if John Gonzalez is still there, but Josh Sawyer definitely didn't work on TOW.
 

oneils

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,099
Ottawa Canada
NV runs pretty much perfectly on any modern-ish PC/BC Xbox from what I've seen

The steam version crashes for me. I ended up buying it on GOG. Can't seem to get the steam version to work for longer than an hour. Last time I tried the steam version was this summer.

edit: hmmm, I might be mixing this up with Fallout 3 and its GFWL stuff.
 
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Yossarian

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,264
Nope. One of the core issues I have with isometric games is that I find it extremely hard to care about a story when the bulk of the game's story delivery is zoomed-out, low-detail paper dolls standing around in generic poses while I select barely-diegetic dialogue responses from lists and static character portraits stare blankly at me.

Disco Elysium, as far as I've seen, is just that. There is no other gameplay at all beyond talking. It basically seems to me like an isometric visual novel, and I do not enjoy visual novels. Without some kind of gameplay to break up all the dialogue, my ADHD is just going to make me lose interest and bail to play something else that's more engaging.

Fair enough. The immersion in DE depends almost entirely on the quality of the writing, and the quality is very good. I found the fact it was mostly centred on conversation pretty refreshing 😄
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,421
As far as I know, a lot of the most important folks to the FONV dev process are gone. I don't know if John Gonzalez is still there, but Josh Sawyer definitely didn't work on TOW.

There's a difference between being gone and not working on TOW. Josh Sawyer is still very much with obsidian
TOW also had Tim Cain and Leonard Boyarsky on it, two parts of the trio who conceived fallout. so lack of talent wasnt that much of an issue
 

Hero Prinny

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,192
I don't think the game needs or even have enough hook for a sequel. It's too open to make one, picking a canon everything would just piss more people than please.

I would love a remaster with the cut/planned content added to it, though.
My bad, I don't mean a direct sequel to NV's story, more like a sequel that takes the game design of NV and expands/adds to them in a new game that can either be a new location in the FO universe, or even a different IP (like an Outer Worlds sequel)
 

Three 6 Mafia

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
487
I really enjoyed the video. Makes me want to finally pick up NV after being scared away by all the reports of bugs
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,742
Fair enough. The immersion in DE depends almost entirely on the quality of the writing, and the quality is very good. I found the fact it was mostly centred on conversation pretty refreshing 😄

Like it's a cool idea, for sure. It's just really difficult when you have a particularly aggressive form of ADHD to have virtually the entire game be passive entertainment where you're just sitting around watching people talk. Passive entertainment is super tough.
 

Roliq

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,196
Huh.

This is about on par with what I'd expect from Reddit.
To be honest it was because in the video he blames the shortcomings on the other two writers ignoring that Monty was to blame for a lot of the things that are criticized in the earlier volumes, also accusing one of them of having a self-insert (the writer in question actually disliked writing for that character), plus the early patron video including out of context images (he removed them in the final release) making the voice actors look bad when what they said was due to being harassed by people who really have an irrational hate against the show
 
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CrichtonKicks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,211
I'm curious. We know that Obsidian made both of them, but how many of the NV crew were actually still around to work on Outer Worlds? Or was it a case of them trying to recapture the magic, but not really knowing what it was that made NV work so well because the original team was long gone?

I don't think it's a talent issue. I think it's a budget/tools issue. TOW was a reasonably low budget release (game was started before MS owned them) and since they were using Unreal 4 (I believe) they don't have all of the tools and sub systems that they got from Bethesda for NV. I believe it may have been Obsidian's first UE4 game so they were having to make a lot of things from the ground up.

TOW 2 should be a lot better now that they have MS money and the first game overperformed compared to expectations.
 

smocaine

Member
Oct 30, 2019
2,018
I re-installed New Vegas last night with 'Viva New Vegas' listed a few pages back and played for a couple hours, it really is transformative. I've never used Jsawyer or Hardcore before, it plays like a different game.
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
To be honest it was because in the video he blames the shortcoming to the current writers ignoring that Monty was to blame for a lot of the thing that are criticized in the earlier volumes, also accusing one of them of having a self-insert (the writer in question actually disliked writing for that character), plus the early patron video including out of context images (he removed them in the final release) making the voice actors look bad when what they said was due to being harassed by people who really have an irrational hate against the show
Oof. Thanks for clarifying that.

Yeah, this sounds like a mess and it sounds like HBG overstepped in some pretty poor ways.
 

Zocano

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,023
I want at least 40 minutes of this to be talking about why Dead Money is one of the best dlc ever made

People will tell you you are wrong, but you are absolutely not. Dead Money is far and away the best New Vegas DLC and one of the best stories in a DLC ever. Probably only rivaled by Witcher 3's Hearts of Stone.
 

jonjonaug

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,675
I'm curious. We know that Obsidian made both of them, but how many of the NV crew were actually still around to work on Outer Worlds? Or was it a case of them trying to recapture the magic, but not really knowing what it was that made NV work so well because the original team was long gone?
Several of Obsidian's best writers left between New Vegas and TOW. John Gonzalez (lead narrative on New Vegas, had the same role on Horizon Zero Dawn), Chris Avellone (Torment, Alpha Protocol, KOTOR2), Eric Fenstermaker (Pillars of Eternity 1), and George Ziets (Mask of the Betrayer) all left between the two games. In fact I'm not sure any writers from New Vegas actually worked on TOW. Josh Sawyer was working on Pillars of Eternity 2 at the time.

Personally I think The Outer Worlds was a really good game. It's one of the best KOTOR/Mass Effect style "travel to these worlds and do the main quest on each of them while doing side quests along the way" games out there, certainly the best one we've gotten since Mass Effect 3. It's just not as good as New Vegas.
 

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,693
John Gonzalez (lead narrative on New Vegas, had the same role on Horizon Zero Dawn)
Wait... that's the guy?!? I fucking loved Zero Dawn's story, best of the generation IMO.

Good thing I already own NV, although I couldn't tell you when I bought it.. lol. Might have to give it a go sooner rather than later, it looks like.
 

Hazz3r

Member
Nov 3, 2017
2,137
This is not really something you can show in gameplay though. Sure, the player might take ages to beat the game, but the logic of it is that its happening in a limited amount of time, weeks-months at most. The shortage is already happening when the game starts, but just because you solved the quest in a way and the farmers went back to california it wouldnt make sense for camps to start disbanding immediately after, specially right before the hoover dam battle (that in game terms is happening right around the corner even when most players do them years later or never at all)

Plus, it should go both ways on demanding immediate consequences - if the player helps Hildern with Vault 22 data, they give the NCR a new way of growing food. So even if the farms went home, it wouldnt make sense for them to have a shortage anyway.

They already do that in gameplay. Camp Forlorn Hope receives more or less soldiers based on your performance in other NCR Quests which actively impacts other quests. I don't know about you but I never expect realism when it comes to time in video games, especially RPGs. Speeding up time in the interest of doing something interesting mechanical is more than worth it.

I think your second paragraph is great, and I would love that to be the case. It was the other quest that I was considering talking about in my original post. Imagine if you decided to kill Keely to keep the data but maybe a week later in game time, food became plentiful in and around freeside, because the NCR could afford to just give it away in exchange for good will with Freeside, The Kings etc. It could even impact the outcomes of some of the side quests that take place in Freeside regarding NCR aid. I think that's a great example of a positive unforseen consequence that might help the player justify an action that didn't immediately appear to be the right one for the right reasons.