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HBO: Allen v. Farrow: Official Trailer (four-part HBO original documentary series) Feburary 21st
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Farrow finding pictures of Soon-Yi in Allen's home reminds me of the part where Charlotte finds Humbert's diary and discovers his infatuation with Dolores in Lolita. The dude's quite clearly a creep which is all the more reason not to doubt the allegations against him. The actress who played Tracy in Manhattan has said that Allen invited her to Paris with the implication that they'd share a bed after she turned 18. He's fucking disgusting.
'Allen v. Farrow': TV Review | Hollywood Reporter
The documentary sounds pretty problematic in its own right.
Believe me, I'm ready to get this fucking ghoul out of the paint.
OP
OP
Thank you for this. I was hoping this doc would lay out all the complexities involved and not necessarily be one sided. Something I'll bear in mind while watching this.
Oh this from the same people? Then this will be good, shame the Russell Simmons one flew under the radar.
Yeah, I'd actually recommend that people check that one out.... even beyond the Simmons accusations, it has a lot to say about the experience of the #metoo movement from the inside.
This one, I'm not sure about. The Variety review is pretty skeptical of its aims and approach too. Maybe there's no way to do new, good journalism in this particular case.... and maybe this isn't even trying to be unbiased, and maybe there's value in that for some people (e.g. making victims of similar assaults feel heard)?
I must admit that I read Mia's autobiography back in the '90s and didn't find her testimony to be particularly convincing, especially when coupled with the inconsistencies that were raised in the news about the accusations. Maybe actually hearing Dylan's words will move the needle for me personally, but I also might be content not to watch this because I do find the whole cottage industry of documentaries about this sort of abuse allegation to be generally more exploitative than cathartic.
Is it weekly drop? I can't really stand that delivery model for documentaries. Will probably wait until they're all out if so.
Amy Ziering and Kirby Dick have done some fantastic docs about sexual assault/rape culture so I have little doubt this will be very good (check out The Invisible War and On the Record).
Amy Ziering and Kirby Dick have done some fantastic docs about sexual assault/rape culture so I have little doubt this will be very good (check out The Invisible War and On the Record).
Yeah, this sounds like a super one-sided representation of a complicated story. Hard pass.
Ronan Farrow was a great poster on NeoGAF.
Also, HBO Docs have been hit or miss recently. Some good, some boring, some atrocious (the Adnan Syed one is particularly garbage).
Also, HBO Docs have been hit or miss recently. Some good, some boring, some atrocious (the Adnan Syed one is particularly garbage).
Huh. The trailer gives the impression that it is taking the side of Allen, but what I'm reading here proposes the opposite.
I think he left the forum even before it was "NeoGAF". Just GAF/gaming-age forums. Think he left because forums were too much of a distraction. Wise choice
Damn. This is always my issue with this story and I was hoping the doc would shed some light on it. Whenever this comes up people ask that you believe without question this one child's account of abuse while completely dismissing this other child's account of abuse. But I don't know any of these people.
As somebody with abuse in their family, the stories we tell and the way family members talk about each other...I've just learned not to assume anything.
Yeah, I've read several reviews, and it's clearly not. Definitely a misleading title and trailer.
None of Allen, Soon-Yi, Moses, etc... participated in the film (though there are sections of Woody Allen reading from his recent autobiography).
Like I posted before, there might be value in presenting a fully biased account, but it does seem like a red flag that this isn't admitting it's that up front.
I hate dramatic violins now.
This looks like it might be good (unless it attempts to humanize the guy who is currently fucking his own daughter), but I already know the story and don't feel like subjecting myself to Woody's bullshit again.
This looks like it might be good (unless it attempts to humanize the guy who is currently fucking his own daughter), but I already know the story and don't feel like subjecting myself to Woody's bullshit again.
I see it as a missed opportunity for a future New Yorker article about EvilLore and amir0x.
Curious to see where this goes. Really hate weekly drops for doc series but had to watch this.
The thumb sucking thing was really weird.
The thumb sucking thing was really weird.
Woody Allen and to a greater extent, Roman Polanski, have been protected "for their work" for far, far too long.
Actors and writers whose work I admire, refuse to believe that Woody Allen is capable of things that he has been accused of. Like I love Larry David but his idolization of Woody's work and how it influenced Seinfeld has definitely blinded him. Apply this to Alec Baldwin, Angelica Houston (who also defends Polanski), Spike Lee, Jeff Goldblum, Kate Winslett, Cate Blanchett.
I'm hoping to see some people start to walk back their defense of Allen and admit to being wrong (Spike Lee apparently did) but I certainly don't expect it.
This doesn't seem to be pulling punches and I'm glad to see it.
Just brace yourselves to be disappointed in people who you admire over the coming months.
Actors and writers whose work I admire, refuse to believe that Woody Allen is capable of things that he has been accused of. Like I love Larry David but his idolization of Woody's work and how it influenced Seinfeld has definitely blinded him. Apply this to Alec Baldwin, Angelica Houston (who also defends Polanski), Spike Lee, Jeff Goldblum, Kate Winslett, Cate Blanchett.
I'm hoping to see some people start to walk back their defense of Allen and admit to being wrong (Spike Lee apparently did) but I certainly don't expect it.
This doesn't seem to be pulling punches and I'm glad to see it.
Just brace yourselves to be disappointed in people who you admire over the coming months.
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Unfortunately the series has a lot of issues:
ronanfarrowletter.wordpress.com
Mia actually says something interesting in the very beginning when she talks about meeting Woody. She said "he wasn't into kids and sometimes when we went over his house he would set it up so it's comfortable for them but it was mainly me" "the kids, he stated he didn't really want to be a part of, that he was too busy making movies." Then when she wanted a child of her own through Woody he was adamant about that -saying "if you want this it's fine but don't expect anything for me I don't wanna have a child. From the get go what are you didn't really want to be around the kids and probably saw them (sometimes) as a bit of a handful. She says it herself "he wasn't into children" Every pedophile we read about ALWAYS had an excuse to be around kids. Woody was the opposite. When he became a biological father I think that changed his perspective on kids. It does that to people.
It also fits to what Moses Farrow says:
mosesfarrow.blogspot.com
As someone who knows enough people who have been abused by clergy, the whole Woody Allen story really makes me angry. This is not representative of child abuse at all. Usually there is silence, cover up and never any investigation. The allegations against Woody Allen were investigated by two independent organizations for 14 months and both concluded that Dylan was coached. What do you think would come out if allegations against clergy were investigated that long and in detail?
FARROW v. FARROW: The Case of the Magical, Disappearing Electric Toy Train Set
By Robert B. Weide I’ve given Amy Ziering, Kirby Dick, and Amy Herdy, the filmmakers behind HBO’s 4-part series “Allen v. Farrow,” every chance to come clean and explain how they …
ronanfarrowletter.wordpress.com
Mia actually says something interesting in the very beginning when she talks about meeting Woody. She said "he wasn't into kids and sometimes when we went over his house he would set it up so it's comfortable for them but it was mainly me" "the kids, he stated he didn't really want to be a part of, that he was too busy making movies." Then when she wanted a child of her own through Woody he was adamant about that -saying "if you want this it's fine but don't expect anything for me I don't wanna have a child. From the get go what are you didn't really want to be around the kids and probably saw them (sometimes) as a bit of a handful. She says it herself "he wasn't into children" Every pedophile we read about ALWAYS had an excuse to be around kids. Woody was the opposite. When he became a biological father I think that changed his perspective on kids. It does that to people.
It also fits to what Moses Farrow says:
A SON SPEAKS OUT By Moses Farrow
I’m a very private person and not at all interested in public attention. But, given the incredibly inaccurate and misleading attacks...
mosesfarrow.blogspot.com
As someone who knows enough people who have been abused by clergy, the whole Woody Allen story really makes me angry. This is not representative of child abuse at all. Usually there is silence, cover up and never any investigation. The allegations against Woody Allen were investigated by two independent organizations for 14 months and both concluded that Dylan was coached. What do you think would come out if allegations against clergy were investigated that long and in detail?
Just had this recommended to me by HBO. I have to admit, even if it's biased, I kind of don't mind as long as it gets more people to realize what a fucking creep Woody Allen is. I am kind of proud to say I've not seen a single one of his movies. I don't see how one could enjoy his "Woody Allen" persona or writing, knowing that it's coming from such a degenerate.
Anyway, I'm just starting the doc, any more feedback on it than what's already been said?
Anyway, I'm just starting the doc, any more feedback on it than what's already been said?
Unfortunately the series has a lot of issues:
FARROW v. FARROW: The Case of the Magical, Disappearing Electric Toy Train Set
By Robert B. Weide I’ve given Amy Ziering, Kirby Dick, and Amy Herdy, the filmmakers behind HBO’s 4-part series “Allen v. Farrow,” every chance to come clean and explain how they …
Mia actually says something interesting in the very beginning when she talks about meeting Woody. She said "he wasn't into kids and sometimes when we went over his house he would set it up so it's comfortable for them but it was mainly me" "the kids, he stated he didn't really want to be a part of, that he was too busy making movies." Then when she wanted a child of her own through Woody he was adamant about that -saying "if you want this it's fine but don't expect anything for me I don't wanna have a child. From the get go what are you didn't really want to be around the kids and probably saw them (sometimes) as a bit of a handful. She says it herself "he wasn't into children" Every pedophile we read about ALWAYS had an excuse to be around kids. Woody was the opposite. When he became a biological father I think that changed his perspective on kids. It does that to people.
It also fits to what Moses Farrow says:
A SON SPEAKS OUT By Moses Farrow
I’m a very private person and not at all interested in public attention. But, given the incredibly inaccurate and misleading attacks...
As someone who knows enough people who have been abused by clergy, the whole Woody Allen story really makes me angry. This is not representative of child abuse at all. Usually there is silence, cover up and never any investigation. The allegations against Woody Allen were investigated by two independent organizations for 14 months and both concluded that Dylan was coached. What do you think would come out if allegations against clergy were investigated that long and in detail?
These threads are always the same. People yelling Woody is a creep and dismissing his influence on comedy mixed with people pointing out ambiguity in the situation, which goes round and round in a circle and ends up nowhere as "evidence" on both sides is dismissed and ignored. And then comparisons to Polanski start, which just clutters the thing up as there's no ambiguity whatsoever about Polanski, he did what he's accused of and ran away like a coward when jail time beckoned.
So what's your takeaway then? Being sincere here. Edit - for the Woody Allen situation.
My takeaway is that Woody is both a talented individual and a weirdo. I don't know whether he did what he's accused of, I don't know whether he didn't do it, I just know his two children have vastly different takes on the situation and as such I view the situation as ambiguous. And a documentary ignoring his side/sons side completely is not, in anyway, an accurate slice of reporting.
Word. It is unfortunate we don't get to address that story here (apparently, I'm still going through it). Any good references that give a different take on the story?
The best place to start is the Wikipedia entry for it, which is pretty exhaustive in linking to stories on both sides of the situation, and widening the focus to show the dynamics and scenarios around the situation between everyone involved.
How the fuck is anyone coming away from this documentary feeling conflicted? They've uncovered a metric ton of new documents never made public and pointed out so many glaring problems with both investigations that is is obvious Allen was able to use his wealth and connections to gaslight the press and largely obfuscate the truth. We even had a well-respected social worker fired because he was told to back down from the case and refused. That Yale investigation not only violated what most experts consider basic procedure (including excessive interviews and destroying their notes) but they reported their findings to Allen even though they had been hired by the police department.
But the most damning evidence is from Dylan herself - who doesn't in the least strike me as some brainwashed woman incapable of remembering what actually happened to her. What I also find grossly and sadly compelling is that there are quite a few witnesses outside the family who saw Allen's behavior with Dylan and commented on how strange and disturbing it was, including them sleeping together in their underwear, him having her suck his thumb, his head in her lap , him rubbing suntan lotion between her buttocks and his creepy obsessing over her that was witnessed by myriad people, including a respected psychologist who lived in Mia's building at the time and was alarmed at his behavior as soon as she saw them interacting.
Even if Mia was this abusive monster that Soon-Yi and Moses claim, that does nothing to negate Allen's criminality and three decades of gaslighting his own daughter and the public to protect his reputation.
So yes, I believe Dylan. I think Allen is a sexual deviant and predator and I think - like Michael Jackson - he's probably going to get away with it because people don't want to admit their beloved iconic filmmaker is a monster.
But the most damning evidence is from Dylan herself - who doesn't in the least strike me as some brainwashed woman incapable of remembering what actually happened to her. What I also find grossly and sadly compelling is that there are quite a few witnesses outside the family who saw Allen's behavior with Dylan and commented on how strange and disturbing it was, including them sleeping together in their underwear, him having her suck his thumb, his head in her lap , him rubbing suntan lotion between her buttocks and his creepy obsessing over her that was witnessed by myriad people, including a respected psychologist who lived in Mia's building at the time and was alarmed at his behavior as soon as she saw them interacting.
Even if Mia was this abusive monster that Soon-Yi and Moses claim, that does nothing to negate Allen's criminality and three decades of gaslighting his own daughter and the public to protect his reputation.
So yes, I believe Dylan. I think Allen is a sexual deviant and predator and I think - like Michael Jackson - he's probably going to get away with it because people don't want to admit their beloved iconic filmmaker is a monster.
Here's a very interesting story from Vanity Fair by a reporter who wrote a damning article many years ago and feels this documentary could finally be the reckoning Allen deserves.
I like how people make excuses for woody yet they casually don't mention the other lady in the documentary who he had a relationship when she was underage. Was Mia "coaching" her too?
What's really depressing is how quickly people rise to defend him even in places that purport to be progressive and supportive of Believe Women and Me Too. When Salon posted an article on this documentary, a plethora of people posted in the accompanying forum defending Allen.
It's also noteworthy to mention this entire narrative surrounding Mia - that of some shrill, plotting wife scorned who concocted this whole thing to get revenge - plays right into the persistent trope of women being liars, vindictive, emotional, etc. Both Mia and Dylan have been largely brushed aside by the cult of celebrity and the notion that this family is some hot dripping mess is largely a construct Allen and his PR team built to muddy the waters.
It's fucking disgusting.
What's fucking disgusting is the way you are presenting the issue. AGAIN, as has been pointed out numerous times, this is a one-sided documentary that doesn't have interviews from Woody, Soon-Yi, OR Moses, and the latter is the one whose semi-recent story is what has largely created the idea that it's not as cut-and-dry as Mia wants to pretend it is.
The accusations against Mia Farrow go further then just coaching Dylan Farrow though. In particular, it's been alleged her brother sexually abused one of her adopted children who went on to kill themselves. She then protected her brother for years untill he went to prison for the abuse of another child.
That's probably what makes people a little bit hesitant to leaping to her defense.
Yeah, I'm the bad guy here.
The bottom line is there are quite a few witnesses to Allen's behavior and there's nothing to suggest Dylan is making this up but you do you, sport.
User Banned (3 Months): Dismissive Behavior Around Sexual Abuse; Prior Bans for Similar Behavior
Don't call me sport. And again, there IS something to support that Dylan was pushed to believe this as a child: Moses' entire account of events.