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mjc

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,880
That's the problem. The orcs have no society and no humanity. They are the 'other', even their origins as corrupted dead elves casts them in a demonic light. Extrapolate that out to how minorities have been treated and represented as in western media through history and you get an idea.

Orcs were tortured elves that turned into a new race, they aren't really the 'other' in that kind of sense. They're the corrupted, twisted opposite of what the elves represented. That's what Melkor wanted.

But then again I don't really subscribe to the theories that some readers have that the orcs are supposed to parallel minorities in our reality.
 

Zornack

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,134
'it belongs in a museum' is the cry of the colonialist

That's not his critique though, is it? He seems to believe Japanese people are portrayed as expendable thugs and that their culture and history is shown no respect. I don't think that's the case in Indian Jones or western films in general.
 

Corky

Alt account
Banned
Dec 5, 2018
2,479
Orcs were tortured elves that turned into a new race, they aren't really the 'other' in that kind of sense. They're the corrupted, twisted opposite of what the elves represented. That's what Melkor wanted.

But then again I don't really subscribe to the theories that some readers have that the orcs are supposed to parallel minorities in our reality.
I think they more representative of a fear of the industrial working class than minorities
 

Amnesty

Member
Nov 7, 2017
2,684
Appreciate the posts that dissected the perspective Miyazaki comes from. Actually some smart posting for once on ERA.

Still a lot of post that outright dismiss Miyazaki and aren't willing to consider his criticism cause it's about a thing they like.
That's kinda what ERA usually seems to be. So happy that actually a good amount of people were sensible and spoke up and tried to give more context to the statements.
Yeah, those 'he's just old' posts were pure trash.
 

mjc

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,880
I may be being presumptuous about his opinions, but a response to that could be how much Hollywood loves making stories about righteous wars and justified violence so it doesn't have to pay much more than lip service to the human costs of either.

You could be right, Miyazaki is definitely a pacifist type so general warfare is distasteful to him. And I respect that.

But yeah I don't think it's a stretch to say that action and violence sells out of Hollywood.
 

Envelope

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
896
He's right and these aren't even controversial opinions but not surprised by how many here are disparaging him for criticizing popular franchises.
 

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric

user requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,958
Well it's portrayed as an inherently heroic and morally pure stance and I don't think the films ever subvert that

Well, that actual quote/sentiment isn't really expressed until Crusade and he says it as an idealistic kid. Indy's always been portrayed as a bit of a treasure hunting mercenary looking for personal gratification who just happens to have a decent moral compass.
 
Oct 27, 2017
13,464
Hayao on Star Wars

FatHelpfulErne-size_restricted.gif
Where can I see the scene in it's full context?
 

fundogmo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,127
It feel vaguely exploitive to haul him out, ask him for his opinion that you know he's already going to be cranky about, and then report it as feigned surprise.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,089
This thread id giving me flashbacks to that time on Neogaf when someone made a thread about how the problematic racial elements in Tarzan and King Kong movies made it difficult for them to enjoy them and a bunch of posters thought they were reading too much into things that weren't there.

About racial themes in KING KONG AND TARZAN
Yeah King Kong definitely hasn't aged that well since it has 30's racist imagery and concepts all over that film. The most surprising thing is that Jackson remake did nothing about toning it down either.

It's hard to go back to a lot of black and white films without picking up on it.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
3,826
You could be right, Miyazaki is definitely a pacifist type so general warfare is distasteful to him. And I respect that.

But yeah I don't think it's a stretch to say that action and violence sells out of Hollywood.
On the other hand, I'm eagerly awaiting John Wick 3, where Keanu Reeves will shoot dozens of people in the face over, ostensibly, a murdered puppy. I will probably be smiling most of the time like this - :D
 

daft_cat

Self-requested ban.
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
195
He's not espousing hate speech. He just has an extreme view on western culture, and it's one that's valid and worth listening to even if it's not particularly sound in the details. These kind of perspectives are always welcome because they force us to question, refine, and justify our own beliefs. Allowing challenges to commonly held views is how we prevent rationally held positions from devolving into dead dogma.
 

GraveRobberX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,056
User Banned (permanent): Extremely inflammatory and racist commentary
Ah fuck 'em

He will die an old hateful man

This isn't some woke commentary, just cause you make pretty cartoons is not the be all to tell the world, that everything is wrong and to forget about the past atrocities your own people committed, fuck outta here

There's a reason those Bombs were dropped on your country, it wasn't just for fun's and giggles
 
May 26, 2018
24,020
Ah fuck 'em

He will die an old hateful man

This isn't some woke commentary, just cause you make pretty cartoons is not the be all to tell the world, that everything is wrong and to forget about the past atrocities your own people committed, fuck outta here

There's a reason those Bombs were dropped on your country, it wasn't just for fun's and giggles

Wow.
 

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric

user requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,958
Miyazaki isn't exactly sparing in his criticisms of Japanese media either.

Fair enough but I think the type of reductive generalizations he's employing are vulgar and pointless regardless of his personal talent. Reasonable people can have likewise reasonable discussions about issues like imperialism and Orientalism in western films without trying to paint the entire culture as brutishly violent.
 

Seductivpancakes

user requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,790
Brooklyn
Ah fuck 'em

He will die an old hateful man

This isn't some woke commentary, just cause you make pretty cartoons is not the be all to tell the world, that everything is wrong and to forget about the past atrocities your own people committed, fuck outta here

There's a reason those Bombs were dropped on your country, it wasn't just for fun's and giggles
If you were a smarter person, you'd know he's also very critical of the Japanese military during WW2.
 

klee123

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,104
I get what he is saying.

Same reason why I have fallen out of interest of Hollywood in general for years.

Pretty much any major Hollywood blockbuster film set in a foreign country especially back then with a adversary is always a minority whilst the hero is a straight white male savior and ends up with the minority female love interest.
 

TaleSpun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,449
LOTR is a series of films by a director from New Zealand, based on a series of books by an Englishman, so his criticism is off to, uhh, a great start.

LOL
 

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
Ah fuck 'em

He will die an old hateful man

This isn't some woke commentary, just cause you make pretty cartoons is not the be all to tell the world, that everything is wrong and to forget about the past atrocities your own people committed, fuck outta here

There's a reason those Bombs were dropped on your country, it wasn't just for fun's and giggles

Well this is an ugly ignorant post.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,126
Ah fuck 'em

He will die an old hateful man

This isn't some woke commentary, just cause you make pretty cartoons is not the be all to tell the world, that everything is wrong and to forget about the past atrocities your own people committed, fuck outta here

There's a reason those Bombs were dropped on your country, it wasn't just for fun's and giggles
Miyazaki is pretty forward with how he dislikes Japan's actions regarding comfort women, island territories, WW2, etc. A lot of Japanese call him a traitor.
 

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
That hardly fits the criteria, if at all.

LotR is a relatively straightforward fantasy story where the evil side is mostly composed by monsters. Most fiction with monsters doesn't bother with creating nuance where monsters can be innocent too and should have rights. This is hardly exclusive to western fiction (let's ignore that he talks about english books as american ones). Ghibli works are a rare (and commendable) exception.

About the Haradrim, which, afaik are the only humans in Sauron's service, or at least the most relevant ones, they were corrupted by Sauron, but this quote from Sam certainly adds nuance to the situation, implying it isn't as simple as "they're all evil and bloodthirsty":

"It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would rather have stayed there in peace."

I'm no Tolkien scholar though and there's already a thread on Era discussing these issues in his work and it certainly is a discussion worth having.

It's literally one short passage about it in all of LOTR.

None of them are characters and they're just man-servants to Satan.

Not to mention that the Orcs are described as looking like looking as racist descriptions of East Asians.