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Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
How do you expect lower-middle class to working class people who smoke to pay this couple hundred dollar ticket you suggest like its no big deal?

Like anyone who indulges in some class warfare thinks, educate your fucking minds now, and do as I do, or fucking deal with these (out of proportion) consequences.

One minute you're an ally, the next minute you're asking for the state to deal forcefully with the plebs. You're smoking in 2019? What, you expect me to go and do proper research into how the Government (with responsible actions), national health service, psychologists and psychiatrists are systematically dealing with these complex social and behavioural issues and reducing rates of smoking to yearly lows, year on year? You expect me to consider and understand how these things take time, but our progress so far shows doing things sensibly actually works?

Nah mate, fuck that, fuck the plebs, lock them up and fine them now!

But satire aside, fines for smoking in public places where it's not acceptable are okay. It works. Smokers have been able to compromise there because liberties haven't been fully eradicated. We made progress forward from 50 years ago, by threading the eye of the needle to sensibly handle a societal issue.
 
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LosDaddie

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,622
Longwood, FL
Against.

Prohibition doesn't work. Let the people decide what they want to do with their body.
 

cwmartin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,765
Vaper here.

The superiority complex and ivory towers in this thread need to get over themselves first.

I'll do it when you people do it, ok ? :) Have a nice day champ.

The ride never ends. Stating that smoking harms you and others is a fact. Saying that makes me superior or in an "ivory tower" is something a moron would say. I have no requirement that you respect my habits, and I certainly don't respect yours. The second my habit starts harming others in my vicinity, I will take a long look in the mirror and argue about it with people online for sure.
 

Heromanz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,202
Just because there is a Black Market; doesn't mean people know how to access it. Everyone is acting like a storefront will pop up called Black Market Cigs that people will flock to. Prohibition will still work on people who don't know how to get these items illegally and may give others pause as to whether smoking is worth it to keep pursuing now that it's illegal.
You know how easy it is to get drugs? Like it's probably easier to buy drugs then it is to buy a car. All this would do is just lock up poor people and create more crime.
 

John Doe

Avenger
Jan 24, 2018
3,443
No; but I felt the effects because my mom did growing up.

What's wrong with what I've said; it's true. Some won't know where to get illegal cigarettes, period.

The same way people didn't know where to get weed or cocaine?

How much do you think some is?

I don't even smoke and I still don't want cigarettes banned because I know who will be affected the most. People are not going to just stop smoking because its banned.

This type of law will lead to a lot of people being thrown in jail in far greater numbers than those thrown in for weed related crimes. Cigarettes are far more ingrained in society
 

Deleted member 32374

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 10, 2017
8,460
The ride never ends. Stating that smoking harms you and others is a fact. Saying that makes me superior or in an "ivory tower" is something a moron would say. I have no requirement that you respect my habits, and I certainly don't respect yours. The second my habit starts harming others in my vicinity, I will take a long look in the mirror and argue about it with people online for sure.

The ride never ends. People in this thread calling for full ban and expensive tickets given out to smokers, no plan on how to actually prevent a dangerous and damaging black market.

I don't vape around others, there is no vaping "second hand smoke". Of course, you'd be ok with weed smoke and second hand smoke, no?
 

John Doe

Avenger
Jan 24, 2018
3,443
Like anyone who indulges in some class warfare thinks, educate your fucking minds now, and do as I do, or fucking deal with these (out of proportion) consequences.

One minute you're an ally, the next minute you're asking for the state to deal forcefully with the plebs. You're smoking in 2019? What, you expect me to go and do proper research into how the Government (with responsible actions), national health service, psychologists and psychiatrists are systematically dealing with these complex social and behavioural issues and reducing rates of smoking to yearly lows, year on year? You expect me to consider and understand how these things take time, but our progress so far shows doing things sensibly actually works?

Nah mate, fuck that, fuck the plebs, lock them up and fine them now!

But satire aside, fines for smoking in public places where it's not acceptable are okay. It works. Smokers have been able to compromise there because liberties haven't been fully eradicated.

Its baffling how so many "liberals" can be so for this ban. Its like people learned absolutely nothing from the War on Drugs. When it comes to some topics I feel like I'm on an 80s Conservative forum when I read the rhetoric.
 

Wein Cruz

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,772
Wish it would happen where I live. The amount of assholes that will just sit down next to you in public and start smoking is disgusting.
 
Feb 2, 2019
363
Make smoking in a home with children child abuse. Because it is.

I think it is in many countries, but I've yet to hear about someone being condemn by the justice for it.

It's hard to make laws apply when nobody sees what's happening in your house.

Wish it will happen where I live. The amount of assholes that will just sit down next to you in public and start smoking is disgusting.

Yeah, that's a disgusting behavior. Some people are selfish to the core and it makes me quite mad when it happens.
 

Koo

Member
Dec 10, 2017
1,863
You seem to lack an understanding of history and current events, if your pro argument is "some people lack the social skills/desire" to find a dealer.

Don't bother replying, I'm done with this thread, I replied bc you took the time for the response to my post to you. Out.
My mom smoked cigarettes till she was 75 (she still smokes ecigs); she wouldn't have a fucking clue where to go get cigarettes if they were illegal. This is what I'm saying. I personally don't do drugs, but if I wanted to start tomorrow, I wouldn't have the first clue where the 'Black Market' is; what I gotta do, go shout in the street 'Anyone selling pot?!' Too much trouble; and I'd get second thoughts.

And yeah this seems to be making you too angry; so take a break from the thread.
You know how easy it is to get drugs? Like it's probably easier to buy drugs then it is to buy a car. All this would do is just lock up poor people and create more crime.
As posted above, I have no clue how easy it is or where to start for that. Some people would be like me and just don't know. That's it for them. This would curb people beginning to smoke.
The same way people didn't know where to get weed or cocaine?

How much do you think some is?

I don't even smoke and I still don't want cigarettes banned because I know who will be affected the most. People are not going to just stop smoking because its banned.

This type of law will lead to a lot of people being thrown in jail in far greater numbers than those thrown in for weed related crimes. Cigarettes are far more ingrained in society
Getting drugs for the first time must be fucking easy? Are there secret ads that only people who want to try drugs can see? Also have no clue how much they are; should I???

I know everyone won't stop smoking if it's banned, but it's a roadblock. If people want to risk it for cigs, that's on them. Seems a really dumb thing to keep doing; especially when there are OTC methods to quit which aren't illegal. There are a lot of reasons to quit; and them being illegal is another.

I don't know what the punishment would be for cig crimes; but I wouldn't be in favor of jailtime. Anything else tho is fair game. Make it expensive enough and people would have to stop or risk bankrupting themselves and their families just for some nicotine.
 

Daitokuji

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,602
It's funny that tobacco is slowly being made illegal while marijuana is slowly being made legal. In another 50 years or so people will want to ban marijuana again.
 

Deleted member 1476

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,449
I hope they never legalize weed either (and if they did they better ban it with cigarettes), I'm not having someone smoke that shit near me.
 

purpleturtle

Member
Jan 27, 2019
27
Not sure how good a ban on cigarettes would be, but if there is a ban on smoking in ALL public places then sign me the fuck up. I'm very allergic to cigarette smoke (becomes very hard to breathe, eyes are red and itchy) and going to eat outside only for there to be smokers is a huge killjoy. It's not your right to fill public spaces with smelly unhealthy shit, do that on your own property.
 

onpoint

Neon Deity Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
14,963
716
Against.

Prohibition doesn't work. Let the people decide what they want to do with their body.
If smokers weren't some of the most rude and entitled people about smoking then I might agree. But as a non smoker who never wants to be around it, that should be my right.

Privacy of your own home or place where it's allowed? Sure smoke up. But nowhere else. I could deal with that as a compromise.
 

John Doe

Avenger
Jan 24, 2018
3,443
Getting drugs for the first time must be fucking easy? Are there secret ads that only people who want to try drugs can see? Also have no clue how much they are; should I???

I know everyone won't stop smoking if it's banned, but it's a roadblock. If people want to risk it for cigs, that's on them. Seems a really dumb thing to keep doing; especially when there are OTC methods to quit which aren't illegal. There are a lot of reasons to quit; and them being illegal is another.

I don't know what the punishment would be for cig crimes; but I wouldn't be in favor of jailtime. Anything else tho is fair game. Make it expensive enough and people would have to stop or risk bankrupting themselves and their families just for some nicotine.


What is it with the aggression in your first paragraph? Secret ads? Give me a break. I don't even really want to address this because you're either being sarcastic or rude but whatever. If you know any group of people then I bet at least one of them does drugs or knows someone who does, ask them who their dealer is. If you live anywhere then it should be common knowledge where in your area you have to go to buy drugs. Even if you just moved somewhere, its not hard to find out.

I'm not asking how much you think drugs cost, you said that "some" people wouldn't know where to get cigarettes if they were banned. I'm asking how many people do you think "some represents

Its not a very good roadblock. It hasn't been for any other illegal drugs. Heroin, cocaine etc being illegal hasn't given people cause to quit, it didn't even stop them from using those drugs in the first place.

"Fair game", you realize that with most fines its either pay the fine or go to prison. So hiding a prison sentence behind an inordinately large fine that the majority of smokers can't pay is still no better than an outright prison sentence. You also underestimate addiction, people won't "just stop" in order to avoid bankruptcy. They will just try to avoid getting caught.

Treatment, Counselling and Taxes are how to combat smoking. Not jail or fines.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
Its baffling how so many "liberals" can be so for this ban. Its like people learned absolutely nothing from the War on Drugs. When it comes to some topics I feel like I'm on an 80s Conservative forum when I read the rhetoric.

In some instances, I think it's trolling, but in most, it's simply well-meaning liberal thinks the most forceful/strictest action possible = getting to the promise land of peace and good health the fastest. What's the quick fix? BAN!

Mixed in with some left-wing authoritarianism, which most of the time is indistinguishable from 70/80/90s Conservative rhetoric. It's a power-grab coming from thinking the world simply revolves around your way or the high way. Often that comes from classism as well, if you see yourself as middle-class and well-educated and can't even at considering lower-class and poor people exist "under you" and maybe have different lived experiences. Though please do use your argument of being an ally when suitable to tell everyone you are ironically concerned your Government doesn't treat or handle poor/sick and unemployed people well.

Which is made more painful these days when young Conservatives are rebranding themselves as the freedom absolutists. Tactical espionage in itself, and pretty much just an attempt to gain popularity and own the libs. But in saying that somewhere right now a Conservative is reading this topic and going "Holy shit, the left really is what my parents used to be. Authoritarian and old-school Conservative.". It's hogwash, no society can exist under absolute freedom, but we can exist with carefully considered proposals, laws, bans, etc.

Far more steps need to be traversed before as extreme a proposal as what is in the OP. History and attempts at it (strict prohibition) have shown repeatedly it doesn't really work. Tackling social and behavioural problems like this properly is more about mitigation and lower numbers of those involved. Such as my post earlier which stated since WW2 smoking has dropped from like 70% of the UK, to the low 20's. People have worked hard on this and responsible forms of banning have been introduced. Not ridiculous age-gate ban scaling and fantasy land "smoking gone in 5 years".

Maybe in 200 years, smoking won't be the vice many (or anyone) turn to, to deal with life. It'll probably be plugging a VR headset in and never coming back to real life. My point being, times can change, but human behaviour and mental health concerns will be eternal. Smoking can affect others more so than things where you almost strictly hurt yourself, but that is why the compromise had to be banning smoking in many public places. That isn't the same as banning it completely.

In the short-term, vaping is probably going to continue to chip away at smoking numbers, and while it's a side-step, it's one with enough immediate benefits to help continue on the path of reducing people inhaling far worse combinations of poisons.
 
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BocoDragon

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,207
Let's just keep the war on drugs going forever, shall we? Just swap out marijuana as the villain du jour and replace it with cigarettes. We can keep this corrupt party going forever.
 

Heshinsi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,093
This would be an incredibly dumb idea.
How do you combat the pollution aspect? Cigarette buds are more of a pollutant in the oceans than plastic at this point. Perhaps if they can get people who smoke to get into vaping instead, that would be a better route. The health aspect is something that is a personal matter, so long as smoking in public spaces is still prohibited. But if people aren't willing to stop polluting when it comes to the waste material, what are the options to fix this issue?
 

LosDaddie

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,622
Longwood, FL
If smokers weren't some of the most rude and entitled people about smoking then I might agree. But as a non smoker who never wants to be around it, that should be my right.

Privacy of your own home or place where it's allowed? Sure smoke up. But nowhere else. I could deal with that as a compromise.

You'll find that most people, even smokers themselves, are fine with restrictions on public smoking.

Outright prohibition has been a proven failure.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
How do you combat the pollution aspect? Cigarette buds are more of a pollutant in the oceans than plastic at this point. Perhaps if they can get people who smoke to get into vaping instead, that would be a better route. The health aspect is something that is a personal matter, so long as smoking in public spaces is still prohibited. But if people aren't willing to stop polluting when it comes to the waste material, what are the options to fix this issue?
Bans on public smoking, etc.

The problem is that creating a black market is a horrifically bad idea- we've seen how this plays out and it's not good.
 

Thrill_house

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,622
This is fucking dumb and I don't even smoke. As long as you aren't doing it in public who gives a damn. Do your own and leave people alone
 

John Doe

Avenger
Jan 24, 2018
3,443
Yes, without any shame. No processed sugar, no soda, no alchool and no bacon. Unless you give up your health care rights.

I'll assume your trolling me and leave this convo right here.

How do you combat the pollution aspect? Cigarette buds are more of a pollutant in the oceans than plastic at this point. Perhaps if they can get people who smoke to get into vaping instead, that would be a better route. The health aspect is something that is a personal matter, so long as smoking in public spaces is still prohibited. But if people aren't willing to stop polluting when it comes to the waste material, what are the options to fix this issue?

Banning smoking outright isn't a solution to the problem either.
 

Arkeband

Banned
Nov 8, 2017
7,663
This would work really well if it was a closed environment, but with how much tourism props up Hawaii and how people are chemically dependent on nicotine, this is going to cause a lot of unforeseen problems.
 

Koo

Member
Dec 10, 2017
1,863
What is it with the aggression in your first paragraph? Secret ads? Give me a break. I don't even really want to address this because you're either being sarcastic or rude but whatever. If you know any group of people then I bet at least one of them does drugs or knows someone who does, ask them who their dealer is. If you live anywhere then it should be common knowledge where in your area you have to go to buy drugs. Even if you just moved somewhere, its not hard to find out.

I'm not asking how much you think drugs cost, you said that "some" people wouldn't know where to get cigarettes if they were banned. I'm asking how many people do you think "some represents

Its not a very good roadblock. It hasn't been for any other illegal drugs. Heroin, cocaine etc being illegal hasn't given people cause to quit, it didn't even stop them from using those drugs in the first place.

"Fair game", you realize that with most fines its either pay the fine or go to prison. So hiding a prison sentence behind an inordinately large fine that the majority of smokers can't pay is still no better than an outright prison sentence. You also underestimate addiction, people won't "just stop" in order to avoid bankruptcy. They will just try to avoid getting caught.

Treatment, Counselling and Taxes are how to combat smoking. Not jail or fines.
Apologies I wasn't trying to be mean or sarcastic; it's just a bunch of people responded in a row like 'DRUGS ARE SO EASY TO GET DON'T YOU KNOW?!?!' - and no i don't. Everyone is acting like it was common knowledge. I kind of doubt my friend group knows either. But we'll have to just agree to disagree on the easiness of coming by drugs. But again I go back to my elderly mother who wouldn't have method 1 of obtaining illegal cigarettes.

I don't know how many that some represents. But any amount is good enough for me. Any amount of people who never start smoking or quit because of it would be a net benefit in my eyes.

They could garnish wages instead of forcing people into prisons. Illegal activity is well illegal, there has to be some consequences. There is already treatment and counseling, but people still smoke. Maybe make it mandatory instead of or in addition to fines could work? Court appointed public service, etc. I'm not into putting people in prisons but you gotta try something. Eventually cigs would just not be worth the hassle.
 

Deleted member 2595

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,475
You say you smoked, but also say that the effect from cigarettes takes a lot longer to start? Did you really smoke? Nicotin flash? Ever heard of that? :) It took my first cigarette to get hooked on them.

Not the effect - the addiction. From what I've read the first-time effect is usually all the toxins hitting your system and spiking your blood pressure and stuff - but over time you become actually dependent on nicotine.

My "smoking" experience was my house being literally full of cigarette smoke at all times when I was younger. To the point where I'd walk into the house/room and get an endorphin hit of breathing in all the smoke.
 

Heshinsi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,093
I'll assume your trolling me and leave this convo right here.



Banning smoking outright isn't a solution to the problem either.
Bans on public smoking, etc.

The problem is that creating a black market is a horrifically bad idea- we've seen how this plays out and it's not good.
Can it not be replaced with vaping? I see more and more people with vape devices. I'm guessing it's a cost thing that makes it prohibitive for many people. Fines on polluters would only hurt the poor, and you're right in that prohibition on cigarettes wouldn't solve the problem due to creating an underground market for it. So a tax on smoking to put towards clean up?
 

Deleted member 32374

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 10, 2017
8,460
Apologies I wasn't trying to be mean or sarcastic; it's just a bunch of people responded in a row like 'DRUGS ARE SO EASY TO GET DON'T YOU KNOW?!?!' - and no i don't. Everyone is acting like it was common knowledge. I kind of doubt my friend group knows either. But we'll have to just agree to disagree on the easiness of coming by drugs. But again I go back to my elderly mother who wouldn't have method 1 of obtaining illegal cigarettes.

I don't know how many that some represents. But any amount is good enough for me. Any amount of people who never start smoking or quit because of it would be a net benefit in my eyes.

They could garnish wages instead of forcing people into prisons. Illegal activity is well illegal, there has to be some consequences. There is already treatment and counseling, but people still smoke. Maybe make it mandatory instead of or in addition to fines could work? Court appointed public service, etc. I'm not into putting people in prisons but you gotta try something. Eventually cigs would just not be worth the hassle.

LOL. Garnish wages.

Lets make people homeless again.

Brilliant.

And I'm not angry anymore, just amused.
 

John Doe

Avenger
Jan 24, 2018
3,443
Can it not be replaced with vaping? I see more and more people with vape devices. I'm guessing it's a cost thing that makes it prohibitive for many people. Fines on polluters would only hurt the poor, and you're right in that prohibition on cigarettes wouldn't solve the problem due to creating an underground market for it. So a tax on smoking to put towards clean up?

You can't force people to vape. I would honestly make the cigarette companies clean it up, which would in effect be a tax because the companies would then pass on the cost of clean up to their customers.
 

onpoint

Neon Deity Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
14,963
716
You'll find that most people, even smokers themselves, are fine with restrictions on public smoking.

Outright prohibition has been a proven failure.
Like I said I'm open to compromise. I don't actually want to tell anyone what they can and can't do in private. I wish my personal experience with smokers didn't cultivate such strong anger in me.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
Can it not be replaced with vaping? I see more and more people with vape devices. I'm guessing it's a cost thing that makes it prohibitive for many people. Fines on polluters would only hurt the poor, and you're right in that prohibition on cigarettes wouldn't solve the problem due to creating an underground market for it. So a tax on smoking to put towards clean up?

There are natural trends to people attempting to use vaping to quit or just moving over to it

The number of smokers in Britain has reached its lowest point since records began in 1974, according to new data, while more than a million people say they are using e-cigarettes to help them quit smoking.

https://www.theguardian.com/society...ritons-turn-to-vaping-to-help-quit-cigarettes
 

John Doe

Avenger
Jan 24, 2018
3,443
Apologies I wasn't trying to be mean or sarcastic; it's just a bunch of people responded in a row like 'DRUGS ARE SO EASY TO GET DON'T YOU KNOW?!?!' - and no i don't. Everyone is acting like it was common knowledge. I kind of doubt my friend group knows either. But we'll have to just agree to disagree on the easiness of coming by drugs. But again I go back to my elderly mother who wouldn't have method 1 of obtaining illegal cigarettes.

I don't know how many that some represents. But any amount is good enough for me. Any amount of people who never start smoking or quit because of it would be a net benefit in my eyes.

They could garnish wages instead of forcing people into prisons. Illegal activity is well illegal, there has to be some consequences. There is already treatment and counseling, but people still smoke. Maybe make it mandatory instead of or in addition to fines could work? Court appointed public service, etc. I'm not into putting people in prisons but you gotta try something. Eventually cigs would just not be worth the hassle.

I'm not talking about your friends but people you know. None of my friends do drugs but I know where to get drugs if I want because I know people who do drugs.

Is your elderly mother an addict? If so I guarantee you she would find a method of obtaining illegal cigarettes if she had to. Right now she doesn't have to so she doesn't. But if she's really an addict and has to, she will. A drug addict can move to an entirely brand new country, not know a soul and still find a way to get drugs.

Garnish wages.... I'll just point out here that some people make so little that by the time they finish paying bills and buying groceries they don't have any wages left TO garnish. I'll also point out that they can't pay all their bills and their family routinely doesn't have enough to eat when the week comes.

Its not as simple as garnishing wages. You would just be causing more suffering. Make what mandatory? Did weed ever become not worth the hassle? There was a time when every warm black body was being tossed into the prison system for it and people still smoked.

What you suggest is a naive way of thinking that history has proven time and again with other drugs, will not happen.
 

Ramala

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,047
Santa Monica, LA
That didn't answer the question.

I get how relatively small un-payable debts can cause huge cyclic life-altering problems. John Oliver did a great segment on it. But the same thing could happen for jaywalking. I'm just saying, if there's a probability you're going to get fined a fee you can't afford it, don't do thing where said fee is a possibility. Also, I feel like if someone were so poor they needed to contest the fine, a reasonable judge might let them off. But if we want to get into how unfair *the court* system is in regards to these types of fines we're talking about a much bigger problem.
 

Koo

Member
Dec 10, 2017
1,863
I'm not talking about your friends but people you know. None of my friends do drugs but I know where to get drugs if I want because I know people who do drugs.

Is your elderly mother an addict? If so I guarantee you she would find a method of obtaining illegal cigarettes if she had to. Right now she doesn't have to so she doesn't. But if she's really an addict and has to, she will. A drug addict can move to an entirely brand new country, not know a soul and still find a way to get drugs.

Garnish wages.... I'll just point out here that some people make so little that by the time they finish paying bills and buying groceries they don't have any wages left TO garnish. I'll also point out that they can't pay all their bills and their family routinely doesn't have enough to eat when the week comes.

Its not as simple as garnishing wages. You would just be causing more suffering. Make what mandatory? Did weed ever become not worth the hassle? There was a time when every warm black body was being tossed into the prison system for it and people still smoked.

What you suggest is a naive way of thinking that history has proven time and again with other drugs, will not happen.
If people want to ruin their families lives over it, I'm not sure what else to tell you. Smoking is actually a real problem if people are going to act like Cigs > Food. It needs to be dealt with. If they are so strapped for cash they aren't going to afford whatever black market prices end up being on top of having their wages garnished for fines they've incurred because of it. Eventually there will be a breaking point.

People have to make choices and if they are going to cause themselves more suffering, I'm not sure what can be done at that point.

And mandatory therapy counseling for illegal possession of tobacco - instead of a fine make people get treatment first. Like make treatment part of any punitive charges.
 

John Doe

Avenger
Jan 24, 2018
3,443
If people want to ruin their families lives over it, I'm not sure what else to tell you. Smoking is actually a real problem if people are going to act like Cigs > Food. It needs to be dealt with. If they are so strapped for cash they aren't going to afford whatever black market prices end up being on top of having their wages garnished for fines they've incurred because of it. Eventually there will be a breaking point.

People have to make choices and if they are going to cause themselves more suffering, I'm not sure what can be done at that point.

And mandatory therapy counseling for illegal possession of tobacco - instead of a fine make people get treatment first. Like make treatment part of any punitive charges.

Have you heard of the crack epidemic?

People ruined their lives over that.

Every single thing you suggest and talk about in relation to cigarettes, we have already seen the results of with other drugs. Every. Single. Thing. Not a single one worked.

I'm honestly not sure what else to tell you because nothing that you have mentioned is a novel idea that hasn't been tried before.

Its not if they're so strapped for cash, they are strapped for cash. If an addict has to choose between paying a bill or getting a fix, then that bill isn't getting paid. It has been proven time and time again how addictive nicotine is. Its not just as simple as going well if you put in a fine or garnish wages, people will eventually stop smoking.

If it was that easy you really think we would have any heroin addicts today?

Punitive charges..... Forget that and just prescribe treatment.

Also have any of you in here talking about banning had the thought that banning cigarettes will only make them look "cool" in the eyes of kids? In the sense of oh this thing is illegal, lets go and try it.
 

Primus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,837
So let's start out with a link to the actual bill that House Rep. Creagan has proposed: HB1509.

Even though both articles (the original Hill article and the local newspaper article it cited say that the bill will get a reading before the House Health Committee this week, right now that's not on the Legislature's schedule. It's only been referred to committee, which is the very beginning of the process.

I'm of two minds on the bill. On the one hand, major legislation like this out of nowhere, created by reps down the food chain, very rarely goes anywhere. It would not surprise me if this bill becomes a victim of gut-and-replace by a more powerful legislator, a practice that is abhorrent and sadly just found legal by a State judge.

On the other hand, Hawaii has been very regressive on smoking in the past 30 years. Consistent increases to the cigarette tax, banning of all workplace (including restaurants and bars) and public smoking in 2003, the raising of the smoking age to 21 (first in the nation) in 2016, and adding e-cigarettes to the workplace and public smoking bans last year. As a continuation of those policies, I think there is a slim chance of this going somewhere. Maybe 85% fail, 15% pass right now.
 

ColdSun

Together, we are strangers
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
3,292
I find it interesting that so many people are quick to go for a complete ban on smoking.

Is there health costs? Absolutely. Perhaps there's other more effective measures to curb it. That perhaps would be a more effective discussion; as time has shown that these types of policies not only unfairly target the poor; but also fail on countless levels.

People do a lot of unhealthy things; and I'm not of the mindset that I should dictate what they do across the board.

Is smoking in public places something that should be regulated and prohibited? Absolutely. However, what people do in their own homes on their own time; should be up to them.