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Have you?

  • Yes and I like it

    Votes: 56 9.8%
  • Yes and I don't like it

    Votes: 15 2.6%
  • No but I'd like to

    Votes: 148 25.8%
  • No and I have no interest. I'm happy with stick/pad/keyboard/mixbox/etc.

    Votes: 199 34.7%
  • I don't know what this is...

    Votes: 155 27.1%

  • Total voters
    573

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,467
Honestly, with how you can press opposing directional inputs at the same time, I'm not sure how I feel about them. They clearly circumvent the intended design, and they might infringe upon fair play since they open up opportunities that are impossible on a pad.

Then again, it's the same as playing on a keyboard, so I guess it's fine. Either way they don't feel anywhere near as good as a proper arcade stick to me. Micro switch clicks are heaven.
 

Tagyhag

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,483
Yes and I liked it a lot. I'm someone who grew up playing fighting games with a keyboard so I always felt left out when we went to arcades and got absolutely demolished because I just could not get the hang of the stick.

I haven't bought one since I don't really play fighting games or arcade games anymore but I could see myself getting one in the future if I ever make my own arcade machine.
 
OP
OP
Jaded Alyx

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,352
How exactly is this better than using an arcade stick?
There are a number of shortcuts or just general input methods that can make certain inputs easier/more reliable/quicker (eg. crouching DPs, instant DP, instant air legs, walking SPDs, SPDS in general, korean backdashing, EWGF, faster dashing, faster Critical Art, air dashing, etc.) and many people find them more accurate since each direction is a literal button - but really, it just comes down to preference. I'd never seriously tell someone that hitbox is 100% superior. For me, it is, because I never truly liked how a lever felt. I don't even really use the shortcuts, I just prefer how it feels to move and input commands.
 

Freshmaker

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,924
I have one. Bought it in 2013 or so, and it collected dust until SCVI's weird buffering issues one patch introduced random jumping. So I broke it out just hoping for more precision with my movement, I put in a new Brook PCB and have been using it ever since. I only really use it for 3D fighters. (Don't get why Steam Tekken 7 hates my Brook PCB tho. Completely ignores the presence of my Y button.)

2d still feels too weird.
 

Just Great

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,985
Honestly, with how you can press opposing directional inputs at the same time, I'm not sure how I feel about them. They clearly circumvent the intended design, and they might infringe upon fair play since they open up opportunities that are impossible on a pad.

Then again, it's the same as playing on a keyboard, so I guess it's fine. Either way they don't feel anywhere near as good as a proper arcade stick to me. Micro switch clicks are heaven.

There's no possibilities that are impossible on pad with any fighting game made past like 2013.
 

Kneefoil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,447
I haven't ever used one, but as a keyboard warrior (not that kind), I would obviously be very interested in trying one out. After all, as far as controlling a video game goes, hit and smash boxes are basically just a simplified keyboard layout.

I don't wanna get one because they're a bit pricey, I'm very happy with playing on a keyboard, and there's no guarantee I would like it more or even as much as I like playing on a keyboard. I wish I could demo a hit box somewhere, so I could make an educated decision about whether I want to get one or not.
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
Yes an while I mostly like it, the angle isn't quite right to alleviate stress on the wrists. They need to bow out each hand a bit more.
 

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,467
There's no possibilities that are impossible on pad with any fighting game made past like 2013.

How so? If I hold back and forward it registers what, no input? It still isn't factoring the stick travel time though, so even in a worst case scenario you go from walking forward to blocking in a single frame.
 

Freshmaker

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,924
Honestly, with how you can press opposing directional inputs at the same time, I'm not sure how I feel about them. They clearly circumvent the intended design, and they might infringe upon fair play since they open up opportunities that are impossible on a pad.
You can, but it just cancels one of directional inputs.
 

Just Great

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,985
How so? If I hold back and forward it registers what, no input? It still isn't factoring the stick travel time though, so even in a worst case scenario you go from walking forward to blocking in a single frame.

Correct, if you hold back and forward it registers no input which means you're just standing still, not blocking or moving forward.

I saw this "you can walk and then block in a single frame!" thing floated a bunch when the daigo drama went down and my personal feeling is just like...who cares? It's not actually a real, tangible advantage. Even if it were, how would that be any different from choosing displays with less latency or making sure the PCB in your device doesn't have any extra inherent latency?
 

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,467
Correct, if you hold back and forward it registers no input which means you're just standing still, not blocking or moving forward.

I saw this "you can walk and then block in a single frame!" thing floated a bunch when the daigo drama went down and my personal feeling is just like...who cares? It's not actually a real, tangible advantage. Even if it were, how would that be any different from choosing displays with less latency or making sure the PCB in your device doesn't have any extra inherent latency?

I would suppose that the difference is that those cases align with the design intentions, where I'd argue the hitbox does not.

Either way I think in most cases the hitbox is fine, the blocking thing, I agree with, for the most part you wouldn't see a benefit. But I think as soon as something crops up where you can do some crazy wave dashing technique, only on a hitbox, then you're going to see these devices banned again. They're permitted provided no one overperforms with them, essentially, but I think that the potential is there.
 

IrishNinja

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,837
Vice City
i don't commit to most fighting games, but i'd still try this

DfGKWYcU0AcXDLL.jpg

damn, pelican is still in the game
 

Metalmucil

Member
Aug 17, 2019
1,379
Does it count that I used to play fighting games on my keyboard when I was a kid as I couldn't afford a stick or pad?
Basically the same thing. And it was awesome. I mean, sticks are digital inputs, so no loss. Had zero problems with directional inputs or combos and such. Now that I think about it, maybe I should go back to doing that.
 

Soonri

Member
Oct 25, 2017
165
What I'd really want to try is a hitbox that can be split in two, similar to an ergonomic keyboard.
Unfortunately I'm not in a position to try building my own right now, but someday...
 

Just Great

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,985
I would suppose that the difference is that those cases align with the design intentions, where I'd argue the hitbox does not.

Either way I think in most cases the hitbox is fine, the blocking thing, I agree with, for the most part you wouldn't see a benefit. But I think as soon as something crops up where you can do some crazy wave dashing technique, only on a hitbox, then you're going to see these devices banned again. They're permitted provided no one overperforms with them, essentially, but I think that the potential is there.

I mean, any overperformance is simply going to be down to the player. There's not a single technique in any fighting game (that has SOCD cleaning) that cannot be replicated on any other device. Are there some techniques that can be done "better," as in it allows a player to learn it faster, perform it more consistently, or faster? Sure. But, there hasn't been anything since SOCD cleaners were implemented that a hitbox could do that any other input device physically could NOT do at all and I don't believe it's possible for that to ever change because a hitbox isn't providing any extra inputs or information to a game than a pad or stick.

And let's not forget--back when SOCD Cleaning wasn't a thing, every wonky "hold two inputs at once" exploit was possible on pads due to having an analog stick as well as a dpad.
 

MoogleMaestro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,109
I'm in the "I would like to" camp.

However, I kind of wish hitboxes came a little smaller so that I could justify the space. It seems like the design is more small-form factor friendly than traditional sticks, so it would be nice if there was a market for it.
 

Just Great

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,985
I'm in the "I would like to" camp.

However, I kind of wish hitboxes came a little smaller so that I could justify the space. It seems like the design is more small-form factor friendly than traditional sticks, so it would be nice if there was a market for it.

Fun fact, this has been a trend that's popped up over the past 6 months or so with the Paradise Arcade MPress, Junkfood Snack Box Micro, and this controller made by a guy in Japan.

Egi2vAAXcAEBnAQ.jpg

micro_0a759575-9ff6-4dcc-b9de-3f6fc6766b45_480x480.jpg

 

DanteMenethil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,054
I used a hitbox for a year or so until I concluded that the ring finger sucks ass and is no where near dexterous as the index finger. You don't really notice it at the beginning but as you practice you notice that the ring finger can't keep up execution wise. Hold your middle finger down on a table and tap as fast as you can your index and then try your ring finger. Your index will always be faster because it is 100% detached from your middle finger unlike the ring finger. I'll try the pinky method someone posted.
 

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,467
I mean, any overperformance is simply going to be down to the player. There's not a single technique in any fighting game (that has SOCD cleaning) that cannot be replicated on any other device. Are there some techniques that can be done "better," as in it allows a player to learn it faster, perform it more consistently, or faster? Sure. But, there hasn't been anything since SOCD cleaners were implemented that a hitbox could do that any other input device couldn't do and I don't believe it's possible for that to ever change because a hitbox isn't providing any extra inputs or information to a game than a pad or stick.

And let's not forget--back when SOCD Cleaning wasn't a thing, every wonky "hold two inputs at once" exploit was possible on pads due to having an analog stick as well as a dpad.

I mean, at a minimum there's no travel time since you can have two fingers on the directions you wish to press, four even. You can be pressing the next input on the frame after you're hitting the previous. It's miles faster when you break it down in milliseconds. So there are a lot of techniques that can be performed faster. Most of the time that doesn't matter, you're getting the same result, but I think when when the right technique comes about, this becomes an issue. It just takes the right players to complain at a tourney, and then that device is banned.

Here's the layout that full schedule had retrospectively banned on MVC3

9Ved96q.jpg


TOs said it was fine, but then players complained when they could see what he was doing with it.

In any case, as soon as you see people doing things with the hitbox that people can't do with regular sticks, and I do believe due to the rapidness of the presses it's very possible that this occurs (even with SOCD cleaning) we will see the whole controversy of hitbox controllers and their legality crop up again. And that's fundamentally, because they allow people do to things that everyone else can't do.

People often talk about Viper ball as a good example of something you can only do on a hitbox.



That's what Fullschedule was using them extra buttons for in Marvel.

I don't think using one is cheating or anything like that though, in fact I think they're kind of fun, but I do think they deviate from the design intentions and it's challenging to balance them in some scenarios because I do think they enable players to push beyond the theoretical limit of what a player is capable of on a traditional stick.
 

Deleted member 5593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,635
I tried it, the directional buttons are way too small and it's way too cramped.

I vastly prefer the mix box or even UltraDavid's split box.
 

arcadepc

Banned
Dec 28, 2019
1,925
This would kill my left hand due to extra strain. I might try one with reverse controls though
 

Just Great

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,985
I mean, at a minimum there's no travel time since you can have two fingers on the directions you wish to press, four even. You can be pressing the next input on the frame after you're hitting the previous. It's miles faster when you break it down in milliseconds. So there are a lot of techniques that can be performed faster. Most of the time that doesn't matter, you're getting the same result, but I think when when the right technique comes about, this becomes an issue. It just takes the right players to complain at a tourney, and then that device is banned.

Here's the layout that full schedule had retrospectively banned on MVC3

9Ved96q.jpg


TOs said it was fine, but then players complained when they could see what he was doing with it.

In any case, as soon as you see people doing things with the hitbox that people can't do with regular sticks, and I do believe due to the rapidness of the presses it's very possible that this occurs (even with SOCD cleaning) we will see the whole controversy of hitbox controllers and their legality crop up again. And that's fundamentally, because they allow people do to things that everyone else can't do.

People often talk about Viper ball as a good example of something you can only do on a hitbox.



That's what Fullschedule was using them extra buttons for in Marvel.

I don't think using one is cheating or anything like that though, in fact I think they're kind of fun, but I do think they deviate from the design intentions and it's challenging to balance them in some scenarios because I do think they enable players to push beyond the theoretical limit of what a player is capable of on a traditional stick.


The funny thing about Fullschedule's controller ban is that Hitbox is working on the CrossUp which is basically the same thing he was doing. Furthermore, Evo at least eventually clarified (after the 2019 tournament was over and the hubbub had died down) that both the CrossUp (in theory, since it wasn't out yet) and the GafroBox (Daigo's controversial hitbox) are both Tournament Legal.

It sucks that Fullschedule got done dirty like that because of "Top Player" salt.
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,605
I'd be curious enough to try one, but without even looking I can just guess these things are likely ridiculously overpriced.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,722
Fun fact, this has been a trend that's popped up over the past 6 months or so with the Paradise Arcade MPress, Junkfood Snack Box Micro, and this controller made by a guy in Japan.

Egi2vAAXcAEBnAQ.jpg

micro_0a759575-9ff6-4dcc-b9de-3f6fc6766b45_480x480.jpg


I WANT THE BABY HITBOX


I'd be curious enough to try one, but without even looking I can just guess these things are likely ridiculously overpriced.

You can approximate it by using ASD + Space on a keyboard, if you have any PC fighting games. (IIRC there's some free to play)
It's a smidge pricier than some other "Off the shelf" arcade sticks, but the quality is good, and it's not much more than it'd take to make your own; it uses the Brook PS4 fight board so it works on PC, PS4, and Switch.
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,605
You can approximate it by using ASD + Space on a keyboard, if you have any PC fighting games. (IIRC there's some free to play)
It's a smidge pricier than some other "Off the shelf" arcade sticks, but the quality is good, and it's not much more than it'd take to make your own; it uses the Brook PS4 fight board so it works on PC, PS4, and Switch.

Thanks for the tip, I'll give that a try, I've got SFV, KI and MKX.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,722
Why are these good and keyboard bad? Honest question.
TBH it's not really a *huge* difference, though it is more comfortable to have the larger buttons, more ergonomically placed for playing like this, compared to a keyboard. But if you play FGs on PC and don't have issues fat fingering multiple keys, it's not that far removed.
 

arcadepc

Banned
Dec 28, 2019
1,925
One other issue is that just like early fps, fighting games on computers had arrows for movement with right hand and attack buttons with left hand.

I played for years this way. Wasd controls arrived mainly because of mouse controls, but fighters did not have that issue. They ignore that a large percentage of players do not use wasd controls.

You can reverse an arcade stick or at least play crosshanded. Cant do the same with a hitbox.
 

Helix

Mayor of Clown Town
Member
Jun 8, 2019
23,751
I think I used the hitbox once in my life just to show off to my friends that I can play fighting games on a hitbox. little did they know that I sucked ass and I was repeating the single combo move I knew with the only character I have ever played with. (I think it was Marshall Law in Tekken 4)

Pretty sure if some you pros ever witnessed that, you would look at me with disgust!
 

Aether

Member
Jan 6, 2018
4,421
Think of it just like a keyboard. Bottom key is just like a spacebar for jump button.
This works if ip is jump (to be fair, thats mostt Fighting games), but for topdown perspectives i really dont like this variant.
And i know the keyboard comparisson to well, played a hell of a lot of emulatted games in the 00s on my laptop in school... so i can see how someone can get really proficient with that.
 

Issen

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,816
I've never used a hitbox but I played fighting games on keyboards (PC) for years and it was actually a pretty pleasant experience. I really wouldn't say no to one of these.
 

Pellaidh

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,168
I'm fine enough with a keyboard, so no. Especially with how much they are charging for these ($200 + $75 shipping + ~$50 taxes).

But I'm also apparently weird in that I prefer to have movement done with the right hand. Compared to attack buttons, movement is easily the more complex of the two, so it makes sense to me to have it handled by your dominant hand. But every hitbox I've seen has movement buttons on the left side.

I do like seeing fighting game payers finally seeing the benefits of a keyboard though. Now if only the same thing could happen with 2D platformers.
 

ClearMetal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,279
the Netherlands
I already have trouble deftly operating all the buttons of a regular arcade stick and that's just one hand. I don't think I have the finger dexterity to use a hitbox. It's one of those inherently foreign concepts to me; I can't fathom how it would work in practice.
 

Mirage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,559
I already have trouble deftly operating all the buttons of a regular arcade stick and that's just one hand. I don't think I have the finger dexterity to use a hitbox. It's one of those inherently foreign concepts to me; I can't fathom how it would work in practice.
Pretty similar to a keyboard if you've ever used one of those to move around in a game before.
 

Hyun Sai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,562
I know those would give me pain in the hands so I didn't bother. It's by far the most precise input device for fighting games though, as it's basically a custom keyboard.
 

tzare

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,145
Catalunya
No, and i doubt i will ever try one. I like how FG where designed around traditional controls (pad /stick), most movements make 'sense' with traditional controls .

Maybe i'd be better using one, if i could adapt to it, , but i think it is not fair since some games where designed around 'traditional' controls, and using this you can do things that aren't supposed to be able to do using the standard input method. Is somehow like playing FPS online with gamepads vs KB+Mouse.
I wish FG detected your input method so i could filter, if i wanted,when matchmaking players with different controls.

It also doesn't help, if i was interested, that i play in a weird fashion, gamepad i play like everyone else, but fighting stick i play with my hands crossed, right hand stick, left hand buttons. Even if i my dominant hand is right.
 

Crumrin

Banned
Feb 27, 2020
2,270
Ooooh, first time I'm seeing a hitbox. They certainly look pretty rad but I can't imagine myself getting used to them in the same way that I never got used to arcade sticks, mouse & keyboard, or anything other than the standard boring joypad. xD But I wouldn't mind trying a hitbox, just for fun.
 

lucebuce

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,891
Pakistan
LOL at using buttons to move in a fighting game.

I use the analog stick on a Dualshock to move like a normal person.
 

Smoshow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,632
I grew up playing at arcades and pizza shops so my preference is stick. I've tried one at a couple times at locals and I'm intrigued. I have an old hrap4 that I might try and convert. Gotta find a plate for it though.