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entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,077
I recently found about this guy from reading his not so recent book--Ten Arguments for Deleting Your Social Media Accounts Right Now. He also wrote You Are Not A Gadget.

Here are some notable videos of him questioning the current ethics of social media and how companies like Google and Facebook business models are detrimental to society from an ethical POV.





If you prefer reading here's an article about him and is his thoughts:

www.gq.com

Is Social Media Good For Anything At All?

Tech oracle Jaron Lanier saw the evils of social media platforms before anyone else. Now he talks about whether Twitter activism really works, how to fix Facebook, and why he won't be joining Silicon Valley's overlords in New Zealand.

The guy is very smart and makes really good arguments. I think most of us that lived through the 2016 election and Gamergate before that have seen the nefarious uses of social media. Moreover, recent FB whistleblower revelations about the negative mental health consequences of platforms like Instagram.

Jaron is not a Luddite. He's a technie himself, so he knows the space very intimately, but he feels we, as a society, we wrong in tech by clamoring for free everything (making users the 'Product") and lionizing SV businesspeople like Steve Jobs, Google's founders, and thus not questioning their motives.

He's particularly hard on Google and FB since the other Big Tech companies, which having their own issues, don't trade user information for money as their primary business model, unlike those two, who basically live and die on user data.
 

Dervius

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,909
UK
I think he was involved in that Netflix documentary which targeted social media, or at least featured on it.

Seemed like a super interesting, albeit eccentric, person.
 
OP
OP
entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,077
I don't listen to white people with dreadlocks.
Why you gotta bring his appearance into this lol.

We need to go back to the early days of internet.

He's a big fan of the early internet. He also argues that companies like Google and FB should pay their users since they both profit of the user data, which is obviously valuable.

Instead, they capture it and give to shareholders, and widen inequality.
 

Desi

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,210
I don't listen to white people with dreadlocks.
help-phone.gif
 
OP
OP
entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,077
Yeah, after having people tell me the same for Stallman i think I'm going to trust my instincts not to listen to creepy white guys.
That's not a fair characterization. Stallman had a reputation going on three decades. Never heard of this guy with anything.
 

Bobby Peru

Banned
Jun 10, 2020
218
I've had the pleasure of meeting the guy on a few occasions, and he is a genuinely smart and nice guy (also talented with a number of musical instruments). Yeah his dreadlocks are cringe but if you're gonna judge a dude based solely on his physical appearance... that's your problem.
 

RetroRunner

Member
Dec 6, 2020
4,917
I've had the pleasure of meeting the guy on a few occasions, and he is a genuinely smart and nice guy (also talented with a number of musical instruments). Yeah his dreadlocks are cringe but if you're gonna judge a dude based solely on his physical appearance... that's your problem.
Look I can understand if these were interviews from a decade plus ago, but this shit has been talked about enough that if he actually cared about people he'd have stopped doing it.
 

enzo_gt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,299
I like Lanier a lot because unlike other loud critics he understands the difference between technological-level and platform-level problems. You can't put the genie back in the bottle, and you can't just think that killing Facebook will solve anything.

That said, I don't think his alternative financial incentives are feasible or can convince these companies to adopt them. I feel like in the current swing towards Web 3.0, I feel like his perspectives would be really valuable in developing social policy for new protocols.
 

loco

Member
Jan 6, 2021
5,523
I think a lot of people are turned off by the dreadlocks because it's 2021 and white people should know better. Dude seems nice but extremely tone deaf to culture.
 
Oct 31, 2017
9,623
Yeah I've felt this way from basically the onset of social media and the transformation of the internet in the last 15 or so years. That modern culture is being transformed in a foundational way that is not particularly good, from a myriad of angles, but in particular ethically.

In college, I basically had an existential crisis coming to terms with all of this stuff and knowing that essentially, I'd forever be an alien/outside opinion in modern culture with respect to all of these things, especially moving forward. And yeah, I've read/seen some of this guy's thoughts on these topics before. He's not wrong.

Like Neil Postman came to say as an addition on Marshall McLean's famous aphorism: "The medium is the metaphor". And the modern medium of current technological solutions in the 21st century means the metaphor isn't a particularly good one; that it's essentially consolidated totalitarianism as an extension of the ubiquity of technology and its form(s) and power(s).
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,010
Really admire Lanier, and always find interviews with him enlightening. He's a really thoughtful person on technology.

On his latest interview with Kara Swisher, I think I disagree with one point he made several times about how the benefit of VR is that it validates actual reality, adds value to actual reality. I think that may be true of him, but that it's probably not true of the general public, for the same reasons that he can choose not to be on social media while the majority of people can't, his experience of VR probably won't be the same experience for others.
 

Gyro Zeppeli

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,289
I don't need to listen to this guy. I've done it shortly after Facebook became popular. I tried it out many years ago and decided that it wasn't for me. I had the foresight back then to conclude that everyone in your personal life coming to one online place to interact with each other was a potential recipe for chaos. I don't know if you can call them social media in the proper sense, but I use Youtube and Discord. I don't use Instagram or Snapchat either. Before Myspace and Facebook came along, I was completely content with IRC, AIM, and MSQ.
 

Dervius

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,909
UK
People should also check out Shoshana Zuboff.
This column is a pretty good primer on her work :
www.nytimes.com

Opinion | You Are the Object of a Secret Extraction Operation (Published 2021)

Ending data extraction is the key to ending surveillance capitalism.

I was gifted her book "The Age of Surveillance Capitalism" by a friend in Secret Santa.

It's exceptionally well written, and sobering to read. I recommend it to anyone with an interest in the topics discussed in the OP.

That essay really is a great introduction.
 

Ryuhza

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
11,437
San Diego County
Some really good stuff here. Helped me write a paper for class!

FYI, the dreads are addressed in the article in the OP

He has a soft, calming voice and waist-length scraggly graying white-guy dreads worn out of what he deems necessity. "I fought with my hair for years," he told me. "I would try to comb, comb, cut, cut. It's like an invasive species. I've been accused of the hair being an affectation or cultural appropriation, all kinds of things. But it's really just a surrender to biology. It's just too hard."
 

BLEEN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,890
Some really good stuff here. Helped me write a paper for class!

FYI, the dreads are addressed in the article in the OP
lol damn so it's just naturally like that pretty much?

the other option might be just shaving it off

i think it looks good on him.


interesting fellow anywho.

thanks op
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,165
UK

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,210
I think that Cory Doctorow's critique is a bit more level-headed than Zuboff's. An added bonus is that it is also much shorter. 🙂 Freely available on medium or his podcast.
onezero.medium.com

How to Destroy ‘Surveillance Capitalism’

Surveillance capitalism is just capitalism — with surveillance. Here’s how to beat it.
Thanks for the link, definitely going to check it out !
I think Zuboff's contribution is really valuable in the framework she's built to even begin thinking of and discussing surveillance capitalism, but that doesn't mean we have to stop there lol