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Have we reached the point where there’s diminishing returns for graphics? Most if not all these games from PS5 event look like they could be PS4 games
- Thread starter warheat
- Start date
I think a number of the games looked really great. Particularly Ratchet and Horizon.
That being said, the combination of the upgraded consoles + 1080p stream make this jump seem less impressive. Going from 4-6TF machines to 10-12TF machines make this gen upgrade seem a bit less impressive graphically. Add to that showing 4k games at 1080p/30 doesn't help.
That being said, the combination of the upgraded consoles + 1080p stream make this jump seem less impressive. Going from 4-6TF machines to 10-12TF machines make this gen upgrade seem a bit less impressive graphically. Add to that showing 4k games at 1080p/30 doesn't help.
Most games shown were crossgen, multiplat or smaller games. Horizon 2 is the new benchmark and the improvements are as big as ever. It looks far beyond anything this generation has to offer and it's an early PS5 game.
Ratchet is also a vast improvement over the last game.
Ratchet is also a vast improvement over the last game.
Everything is clearly a step above what the PS4 can do, but really good graphics are like table stakes now. AAA games already look better than CGI movies from a decade ago. Now they're going to look better than CGI movies from 5 years ago. The technical wizardry doesn't hit the way it did when I was a kid. And the real shame is that the ROI is not increasing, so the poor souls working Sony's salt mines are putting in more effort than ever and I'm just over here like, nice I guess? How's the framerate?
Not that I have read.
If it did, it would not look anything like this:
Stills:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4517pw8t...7Ua/Kena_Stills?dl=0&subfolder_nav_tracking=1
And now that the iterative hardware precedent has been set it seems totally foolish to not wait that few years for the inevitable upgraded console.
But of course being part of the zeitgeist yields the same badge of honor whether it's for a major game or console release.
I don't see an issue with buying a console on launch. I don't plan on it though. Demon's Souls isn't worth a $500 purchase or whatever it is. I don't expect God of War for a long time. Also both Xbox and PS5 look like butt.
I agree with this, and on top of that I could look at Uc1 and not say it looks like a Ps2 game
I don't know what some people watched if they thought those games looked like your average PS4 games... lol.
They looked like good PS4 games, but to me still indistinguishable from the current generation.
It will be interesting to see how much they need to scale down.
No, these games were pretty much PS4 games other than R&C. Technically that could have been a R&C PS4 game too and they just added the shift mechanic a year ago.
That said you need to see the 4K feeds because that stream was grainy and 1080p. These will be cleaner PS4 games with better lighting or denser vegetation.
The truly impressive stuff won't come until 2022 and later probably. That would be a 3 year development timeline.
That said you need to see the 4K feeds because that stream was grainy and 1080p. These will be cleaner PS4 games with better lighting or denser vegetation.
The truly impressive stuff won't come until 2022 and later probably. That would be a 3 year development timeline.
I think there are two things at play here. First of all the stream was terrible go watch 4k videos and look at the uncompressed images. Second compare these games to how a game looks on base ps4. Going from 900-1080p to this is a massive leap that the mid console refreshes kind of ruined
This legit looks like a linear progression to me:
It's a gradual and consistent progression into the legitimately Dreamworks CGI level visuals we're seeing today.
It's getting closer but these graphics would stick out like sore thumb. Modern pre-rendered cgi is still its own class. Maybe it could match some cheaply rendered childrens tv series.
I think we're hitting a point where games are going to be advanced by more subtle things like lighting or the amount of stuff you can cram on the screen, or performance, as opposed to outright noticing "wow these graphics are better". We're getting in the uncanny valley right now, and the uncanny valley is really hard to get out of.
I'm genuinely shocked by how the visuals looked. The game lineup was amazing but the visuals were super disappointing. GT7 was probably the worst example of that. Maybe we really are reaching diminishing returns? I don't know, I feel like if they showed horizon running gameplay or demon's souls they could've blown us away. That unreal engine demo was absolutely stunning and gave me that true generational leap feeling. I didn't get that this time around at all unfortunately.
It's getting closer but these graphics would stick out like sore thumb. Modern pre-rendered cgi is still its own class. Maybe it could match some cheaply rendered childrens tv series.
In what world is a video game still going to take 4 hours to render, and about 20-30 hours of post compositing.....? Is that what people think a... game...console is going to eventually do?
Diminishing returns for sure when it comes to just in your face detail.
It still looks significantly better though when you're looking at a 4K source.
The real improvement is the detail extending into the background.
Combine that with the fast loading, like how Ratchet switched environments quickly on the fly, it's a huge difference.
It still looks significantly better though when you're looking at a 4K source.
The real improvement is the detail extending into the background.
Combine that with the fast loading, like how Ratchet switched environments quickly on the fly, it's a huge difference.
The visual improvement are going to be in the subtle details, lighting effects, environment density etc. Characters on PS5 look just as phenomenal as they do in AAA PS4 games, Its a very marginal upgrade, but one well worth it. Just look at the grain and environmental filmic effects on the new Ratchet game.. the image is amazingly clean and that adds so much more to the atmosphere when you compare it to the PS4 version, despite the characters looking extremely similar in both versions. We arent ever going to see the kind of jumps we got with ps2>ps3>ps4, and I'm good with that.
Now what I really need to see is the systems potential for rendering VR games. Getting images as crisp and clear as they looked in the PS5 demo is surely out of the question, but all the new lighting an rendering capabilities will make for some extremely compelling and immersive PSVR content- that is if they dont kill it off like they did with Vita.
Now what I really need to see is the systems potential for rendering VR games. Getting images as crisp and clear as they looked in the PS5 demo is surely out of the question, but all the new lighting an rendering capabilities will make for some extremely compelling and immersive PSVR content- that is if they dont kill it off like they did with Vita.
With all this considered most of the actual gameplay and Horizon 2 trailer and other trailers still show a significant difference.
go back and compare HZD and this new trailer. never trust your memory. even then, look at how grand the world is, graphics aren't just in the details, HZD has mountains, a few cities and the likes copy pasted everywhere. this new game has huge ships, cars, airplanes in the distance, it makes the world more alive. stuff like this are just not possible on a ps4.
I'm a bit confused - some of the speaker in the event yesterday were clearly CG - but they made no mention of this in the show or later on?
I Still think it will takes 2-3 gen before pixels won't be visible at all. 8k per eye would be ok I think.
I feel like people say this every gen because they fail to understand that a system's power and capabilities won't be realized until 3 or so years into the system's life. I'm sure none of these games were built from the ground up on the PS5.
However, Ratchet and Clank looked nothing like it's PS4 predecessor. That and Horizon 2 look like a slight step up from PS4 games. Also, ray-tracing which is another layer of graphics.
However, Ratchet and Clank looked nothing like it's PS4 predecessor. That and Horizon 2 look like a slight step up from PS4 games. Also, ray-tracing which is another layer of graphics.
I think the super clean 4k look is a bit misleading to. And i think people have a tendency to have their very own criterias to what seems impressive or not.
What i mean is, some PS4 graphics rendered super cleanly at 4k would pass for next gen for many people. In some of those PS5 games, art direction and IQ is sooo good yet i look at them closely and i'm like.. not sure what's so different from a PS4 game in assets or tech.
For me, something that i'm expecting from true nect gen graphics are crazy details at mid and far distance. I think you can see that in Horizon Zero Down.
Now something like the Demon's Soul remake. It looks amazing, and the upgrade from the original is huge but.. i see that kinda look where LODs start to lose texture and details pretty quick actually.
I really think a key of "looking next gen" will be the density.
It's interesting that Kana is also for PS4, but it could be a case of downgrade rather than targeting the PS4 to start with.
What i mean is, some PS4 graphics rendered super cleanly at 4k would pass for next gen for many people. In some of those PS5 games, art direction and IQ is sooo good yet i look at them closely and i'm like.. not sure what's so different from a PS4 game in assets or tech.
For me, something that i'm expecting from true nect gen graphics are crazy details at mid and far distance. I think you can see that in Horizon Zero Down.
Now something like the Demon's Soul remake. It looks amazing, and the upgrade from the original is huge but.. i see that kinda look where LODs start to lose texture and details pretty quick actually.
I really think a key of "looking next gen" will be the density.
It's interesting that Kana is also for PS4, but it could be a case of downgrade rather than targeting the PS4 to start with.
I don't think I saw anything that looked better than RDR2 on PC. But... that's not saying much because that game is insane.
Too many people in here sounding like Phil Spencer in his recent interview...
That's not how that works. It's all about perception. People are comparing these games to Doom Eternal and Ghost of Tsushima. There weren't PS3 games like this when PS4 launched. The mid-gen console refreshes are messing with people's perception big time.
The generational graphical leap is there, it's just not perceived to be the case. Unfortunately, the general public will see it this way as well.
People like me running the original 2013 launch boxes are ecstatic though. That's why I never mess around with these half-step refreshes.
It's going to take a while until we get stuff that really takes advantage of the hardware. The event was 90% stuff that had nothing to do with the PS5 other than being possible to play on it. If you look at the Demon's Souls screenshots, that kind of lighting and detail is not possible on a PS4 without massive performance tradeoffs.
It was not a good event in terms of actually informing people about what the system is capable of, outside of the pre-alpha R&C footage.
It was not a good event in terms of actually informing people about what the system is capable of, outside of the pre-alpha R&C footage.
That was my thought as well - it's loading massive new environments every few seconds. It's less about the graphical fidelity (though it looked great) and more the instant loading.
This legit looks like a linear progression to me:
It's a gradual and consistent progression into the legitimately Dreamworks CGI level visuals we're seeing today.
PS2--->PS3 jump is massive. The rest are appreciable.
Sorry, I don't understand. Can you explain why it would be sarcasm?
