You mean like Ratchet and Clank's portal jumping? That's a pre alpha game too.
Horizon was definitely using the SSD for those large areas with no pop in also.
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Have we reached the point where there’s diminishing returns for graphics? Most if not all these games from PS5 event look like they could be PS4 games
- Thread starter warheat
- Start date
Horizon was definitely using the SSD for those large areas with no pop in also.
Yep, the difference is night and day, it's a shame the presentation lessens the impact of the improvements.
Mate, you got no idea how ready I am for next gen. Base PS4 since year 1!
I was just saying why people may have gotten that impression, due to the stream quality.
How many casual observers would be able to definitively say that screenshot was from a next-gen title and this one is not? Horizon already looked amazing, if they created Horizon 2 on the PS4 that underwater scene probably looks almost as good at a glance. So much of the improvements people talk about graphically now is in the details, or stuff that's only truly noticeable if you have a huge 4K TV or do side-by-side comparisons.
For me, something like Half-Life Alyx is a lot more "next-gen" than what MS/Sony have shown off so far. That's what I'm looking for, using the horsepower for physics or stuff that really wouldn't have been possible in the past. Not just prettier pretty games.
Are we really discussing this?
Looking sharper means it looks better on your TV. Having a better resolution means all of the things you mentioned will also look better. Because if not, your tv will have to upscale it all, and it will end up looking blurry. This of course, if you have a 4k tv.
Also, all that stuff you mention is better in these PS5 games than PS4 games, so what are you even arguing about?
I'd have felt similarly had I not watched the 4K trailers afterwards. The differences are very substantial there.
But by far the most exciting thing is the scale and design possibilities enabled by SSDs being standard. This is a much more substantial leap in terms of what games are capable of than PS3 to PS4 where, by and large, we got prettier versions of the same fundamental game design.
But by far the most exciting thing is the scale and design possibilities enabled by SSDs being standard. This is a much more substantial leap in terms of what games are capable of than PS3 to PS4 where, by and large, we got prettier versions of the same fundamental game design.
How many casual observers would be able to definitively say that screenshot was from a next-gen title and this one is not? Horizon already looked amazing, if they created Horizon 2 on the PS4 that underwater scene probably looks almost as good at a glance. So much of the improvements people talk about graphically now is in the details, or stuff that's only truly noticeable if you have a huge 4K TV or do side-by-side comparisons.
For me, something like Half-Life Alyx is a lot more "next-gen" than what MS/Sony have shown off so far. That's what I'm looking for, using the horsepower for physics or stuff that really wouldn't have been possible in the past. Not just prettier pretty games.
Photo mode uses higher fidelity models. And even then:
This is CG level.
Ghost of tsushima and last of us looks better than all games showed yesterday except ratchet and clank.
that's diminishing returns. PS1would never run metal gear 2 and ps2 would never run god of war 3.
you say ps4 can, but with bad frame rate.
Uncharted 1 and Mass Effect 1 looked like they were impossible to do on PS2 though even back when they came out. These examples just prove OPs point, lol. Of course later games looked even better, but early games of the PS360 era were definitely already a gamechanger compared to PS2 graphics.
Throughout the show I was just asking myself which of these games would not be possible on the PS4. Which of these games clearly surpass standards set by TLOU2, Horizon and RDR2. Unfortunately they all look like PS4/PS4.5 games with the nice bonus of being powered by an SSD.
So far this seems like the smallest jump yet in terms of graphics. Last gen we saw an immediate jump really quickly with games like KZ SF, inFamous, Driveclub and The Order.
So far this seems like the smallest jump yet in terms of graphics. Last gen we saw an immediate jump really quickly with games like KZ SF, inFamous, Driveclub and The Order.
Never knew era had so many visually impaired posters. The leap in visual fidelity is just as noticeable as the leap from PS3 > PS4. To say that Horizon 2 looks like a current gen title is absolute drivel.
We are talking apple to apple, you're talking like 4K is next-gen thing when there are a lot more factor beside resolution that make a game look better. Why mentioning the PS4, did I?
Upscale from what 1080p, 1440p? Of course it will have an impact but again, I don't play on console and when I do at my friends spot, I don't play my nose close to the screen.
1080p FF VII Remake looked good on 4K screen. Resolution wasn't an issue.
Making a comment, not even arguing.
I disagree, because Horizon 2 looks better and it's open world. But I guess you have a point when it comes to something like Sackboy, which to be fair can't be compared to the graphical style of TLoU 2.
I'd say what we seen in this presentation looked good mostly, but I realized a bigger than ever gap between games depending on their budget. Of course we don't know how much budget the games have, but I think you could see the budget difference imo.
I think dimishing returns and also budget will limit games next gen more than we probably anticipated. However I think another issue are the memory of everyone of us, because we envision games looking better than they actually are and sharing the best of the best photos/GIF doesn't help with the perception our mind creates.
Games like Gears, Horizon 1, GTS, ... look amazing. Stunning even and are personally some of the most impressive games and are in my top 10 this gen. But the games have obvious flaws and we tend to forget about them. When you think about effects like fire you envision them with Ray tracing in mind, if that makes sense. If you know start up Gears or GoW going to a level with fire, then you realize how it actually looked.
What impressed me the most about some of the best looking PS5 games shown are the density of assets, the variety and how much geometry is there. This gen we could have good looking scenery and some good looking characters. But next gen their will be more scale to everything. I don't think metal with scratches will look much better than on PS4. But I think we'll get this level of detail on a different scale unseen before. Scale and then much more natural and dynamic lighting.
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Yes, and it's from a cutscene which does basically the same things as photo mode.Photo mode uses higher fidelity models. And even then:
This is CG level.
Also TIL watching streams in 4K improves lighting, shaders and animations.
People, are we done with the "have you watched in 360p" snarky comments? If anything, it shows you have no idea what you're talking about, but still need[/] to pile up on whoever expresses a less than stellar opinion on your new favorite console. Grow up.
There were a few standouts during the presentation, but overall the leap seems pretty small. That said, developers will be able to better harness the new consoles' power later on, so it's all good. Just, the reveals get less impressive with every gen.
Just because it couldn't run on PS4 doesn't mean there is no diminishing returns.
Regardless of what you think of it, there is no need to be hostile.
It's still definitely a showcase of diminishing returns though. It's obviously better, but it's mainly better details, the clothing, the lighting.. it's not something that immediately stands out at a glance as a generational leap.Photo mode uses higher fidelity models. And even then:
This is CG level.
It's not like some previous generations where you get those "omg they finally render invidual fingers on the character's hands" or "finally hair is looking like actual hair" etc. This time it's.. "oh.. the details on the bow are nicer if I zoom in on it".
"Grow up because my opinion is not like yours and mine is obviously the right one."
And as I said, if we're comparing photo mode with Horizon's in game cutscene graphics, it still looks bounds better in lighting and shaders as you mentioned in your post.
Shit like this just is way to impressive.
PS3 -> PS4 -> PS5
Sorry if I can't relate. We are literally reaching CG quality of graphics.
No, for a few reasons.
1) It's much harder to discern the graphics via a stream.
2) These are launch titles. Give Naughty Dog/Rockstar/Santa Monica 5 years with the hardware and I'm sure we'll see amazing results.
3) I think it's more that we're reaching the diminishing returns of how long devs can spend on a project. Just because these consoles CAN output higher fidelity graphics, doesn't necessarily mean that publishers can afford to have developers spend a much longer making them look better. Again, only devs with larger budgets can capitalise on the hardware fully.
1) It's much harder to discern the graphics via a stream.
2) These are launch titles. Give Naughty Dog/Rockstar/Santa Monica 5 years with the hardware and I'm sure we'll see amazing results.
3) I think it's more that we're reaching the diminishing returns of how long devs can spend on a project. Just because these consoles CAN output higher fidelity graphics, doesn't necessarily mean that publishers can afford to have developers spend a much longer making them look better. Again, only devs with larger budgets can capitalise on the hardware fully.
easy, check the 4k video on youtube and not the videos from the streaming. the quality of the streaming was awful
Your comparison of Ratchet is great and shows a clear leap. But we don't reach and probably never will GC level. Unless you mean low budget or very old GC.
No, grow up was directed at people implying watching the video at a higher resolution will make you notice the actual big leap, otherwise you don't. Which is false, by the way. If I watch Toy Story 4 in 480p it still is above and beyond anything you might find rendered in real time on current machines at 4K. Resolution is just a tiny piece of the IQ puzzle. But good job understanding my post, I guess."Grow up because my opinion is not like yours and mine is obviously the right one."
And as I said, if we're comparing photo mode with Horizon's in game cutscene graphics, it still looks bounds better in lighting and shaders as you mentioned in your post.
Shit like this just is way to impressive.
PS3 -> PS4 -> PS5
Sorry if I can't relate. We are literally reaching CG quality of graphics.
Also I never said there's no Improvement, just that it's not that big of a leap as people make it out to be. The topic at hand is diminishing returns, by the way.
I want an app with high quality videos to download from Sony and Microsoft.
Well since OP mentioned IQ especially, yes, the youtube quality comment is valid
These games look way sharper and more refined than their PS4 counterparts. I can understand people without a keen eye for graphics will not be able to remember and tell the difference, but it will be obvious when directly compared.
Anyway, you still haven't seen any finished PS5 exclusive game. I can't believe to imagine what their top studios will have a couple years from now.
Anyway, you still haven't seen any finished PS5 exclusive game. I can't believe to imagine what their top studios will have a couple years from now.
I'm currently playing the witcher 3 on my PS4 slim and in big cities the game dips in framerate and it affects the graphics in weird way. I'm pretty sure if big games can perform smoothly on PS5 then we'll see a difference in graphics.
I got up at 5am to watch.
They say you only have one chance at first impressions. so not really interested in watching the same thing again. If they wanted to impress with their graphics, I think they should have done it the first time.
Ratchet and Clank was the best thing showed. It looked awesome! No way you could do that on a PS4
I do perfectly know what they bring to the table, maybe you dont. Also this thread and similar voices on different platfroms show that my perception is not false. I dont remember similar threads on PS3 or PS4 at the beginning. On PS4 it was the opposite and people didnt believe that Killzone Shadowfall and Infamous: Second Son footage was real because it looked so good . In my opinion the PS5 is a PS4 Pro Pro. Thats what i see right now. I am pretty sure that graphics will improve and we will see a few games - probably exclusives - which will push the boundries and make use of the new features/SSD speed in a meaningful way and make our jaws drop.But I dont see a generational leap in performance and visuals, thats all I am saying. Dont know whats trolling about that.
Facts. I'm thinking a lot of folks parroting this nonsense watched those games on the 1080p shitty stream. I dare anyone to watch those games in 4K again and tell me that the PS4 can achieve those visuals. HZD2 and R&C in 4K completely destroy anything I've seen on consoles this gen. The difference is night and day especially with the minute attention to detail and lighting.
To be frank watching the stream 1080 those game didnt shine well, after watching all the trailers in 4k, ratchet and horizon really impressed me, gt 7 looked like a ps4 game, but its normal too in 2-3 year games are to look way better too
Feels like we hear that at every generation since the PS3/Xbox 360. But the technical/visual jumps of new generations are still always super impressive, huge and exciting to me. I'm beyond hyped for the next gen plastic machines :)
No. If the launch games look as good or better than the PS4's best games, then that means we've made excellent progress and have a good starting point for the next gen. I also noticed that several of the indie games on display were of a AAA quality which means the hardware is helping them overcome some of the challenges of having smaller teams and less money.
My thoughts exactly.
I also have my 2080ti PC hooked to my LG OLED and only Control or Metro Exodus on ultra with ray tracing has maybe been on the same level of what I saw in many of those trailers.
I get it if you are one of those people that seemingly have enough time on your hands to post endlessly about diminishing returns but claim you lack the capacity to rewatch the videos in 4K, as you are just being a disingenuous troll, but properly outfitted and looking objectively the difference is notable and obviously a step up from PS4 and even the best that we have in PC currently.