Okay, fatphobic then
You know how you write bullying? You make the bully a villain. You dont use victims for comedic affect when youre actively targetting a specific group of people.
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Have recent events affected your decision to buy future Atlus titles?
- Thread starter Gold Arsene
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You know how you write bullying? You make the bully a villain. You dont use victims for comedic affect when youre actively targetting a specific group of people.
Won't buy an Atlus game new ever again. Used is the only way to go. And like hell am I buying that Catherine shit.
I'm aware that I'm "punishing" hundreds of people who aren't Hashino by choosing not to support Atlus. And frankly, life is filled with difficult, no-win decisions like these. I'll live with it. Fuck the fucking fuck at that jackass.
Lastly, I'll endeavor to raise awareness of Hashino's disgusting and harmful antics, as well as awareness that no one seems to have attempted to stop him.
I'm aware that I'm "punishing" hundreds of people who aren't Hashino by choosing not to support Atlus. And frankly, life is filled with difficult, no-win decisions like these. I'll live with it. Fuck the fucking fuck at that jackass.
Lastly, I'll endeavor to raise awareness of Hashino's disgusting and harmful antics, as well as awareness that no one seems to have attempted to stop him.
Yeah there might be other ways in future games about high school settings, it'd have to be creative if they still wanna be realistic. Conflict with other kids is a constant in all grade schools. It would make zero sense to have no conflict between kids in a high school setting
Atlus games aren't a necessity and they are a company who willingly employ someone with numerous examples of homophobic and transphobic actions. If you want to continue buying their games then fine, it's your call, but it's still willingly funding those same people.
That's kind of my stance. I mean I only buy Persona games from Atlus anyway and don't touch anything else.
I wouldn't mind if he addressed it in some way. This stuff reminds me about my play through of Policenauts. Hoo boy is that full of some of the cringiest offensive shit. I don't think Kojima should be written off or ostracized for something he did 25 years ago, but at the same time it really shows how far we've come and hopefully he has too.
I've been pretty disappointed by how the Catherine thing has panned out, even taking into account the remote possibility that the latest transphobic material is maybe not as transphobic as initially thought. Unless there is a substantial change of context that explains all of this, I probably will not buy Catherine: Full Body.
As for other Atlus titles, I think I'll be taking a more cautious stance but I'm not making any blanket decisions just yet on their slate. My ideal outcome is for Atlus to be a more progressive company when it comes to these kinds of issues. My less ideal outcome is for Atlus simply to decide it's not equipped to handle these kinds of subjects with the respect and nuance they deserve (basically an Ubisoft-style "we swear we're not putting explicit politics in our games" approach). But either way, I'd like to find a way to keep the good in Atlus games and excise all the terrible shit that gets included with them.
As for other Atlus titles, I think I'll be taking a more cautious stance but I'm not making any blanket decisions just yet on their slate. My ideal outcome is for Atlus to be a more progressive company when it comes to these kinds of issues. My less ideal outcome is for Atlus simply to decide it's not equipped to handle these kinds of subjects with the respect and nuance they deserve (basically an Ubisoft-style "we swear we're not putting explicit politics in our games" approach). But either way, I'd like to find a way to keep the good in Atlus games and excise all the terrible shit that gets included with them.
They won't get a single cent from me. Voted second though since I also won't be supporting any other projects that Hashino is involved in.
There was a line, and they launched themselves across it.
There was a line, and they launched themselves across it.
I already thought Catherine was a turd of a game, so there's no way I'm buying that.
They would have to REEEEALLLLY fuck Persona 6 over for me not to get it.
Ain't no way I'm not copping SMTV
They would have to REEEEALLLLY fuck Persona 6 over for me not to get it.
Ain't no way I'm not copping SMTV
I'm honestly not sure. I ended up not buying Valkyria Chronicles 4 for the stuff they pulled so i might skip CFB too. But i also really liked the base game so i feel like i can't commit 100% either way right now. I hope this stuff stops in Persona games (and others) now that Hashino has moved on to his Fantasy RPG.
For me, it's easy to boycott stuff like The Last Night or Kingdom Come: Deliverance, no matter how interesting could be the premise of these games, because it's a new ip and a series i never gave much of a shit.
But i feel like Atlus stuff is already in my veins, and there's no way i would miss MegaTen stuff at all. Tho i mostly never get games day one or pay full price for them anyway.
I already played Catherine and i'd rather focus on new games anyway, so probably wouldn't get the remaster. Would still get the original on Steam if it's really cheap.
But i feel like Atlus stuff is already in my veins, and there's no way i would miss MegaTen stuff at all. Tho i mostly never get games day one or pay full price for them anyway.
I already played Catherine and i'd rather focus on new games anyway, so probably wouldn't get the remaster. Would still get the original on Steam if it's really cheap.
Yeah, I'm out as far as Hashino is concerned and maybe Atlus as a whole unless they find a way to right this ship somehow. This trash just seeps into their games way too much. I'll give Atlus a chance to be better and move past this, but if they can't then that's that. I'm done with putting up with that shit being directly in my games.
There's so many games coming out that I want to play and so many games that I haven't played yet. I can be a lot better about not supporting assholes than I have been and there will still be far more interesting and enjoying games out there than I could ever make time for.
There's so many games coming out that I want to play and so many games that I haven't played yet. I can be a lot better about not supporting assholes than I have been and there will still be far more interesting and enjoying games out there than I could ever make time for.
Nope, won't affect my purchasing decisions. Not interested in Catherine FB in the first place. I liked the OG Catherine but not enough to buy an enhanced rerelease.
I'm still really looking forward to other future SMT/Persona games though. Love these franchises.
I'm still really looking forward to other future SMT/Persona games though. Love these franchises.
A lot of things we purchase aren't necessities and are created on the back of slave labor, for example. I'm not in the business of calling anyone a hypocrite for what they choose to purchase or boycott. We all have our different ways of protesting things, and in my case, I think Atlus titles enrich my life enough from the enjoyment I get out of them that I'd rather purchase them and also vocalize my distaste for the problematic bits in some of their titles.
I'd be more willing to boycott a game I don't have much interest in because, well, I don't feel like I'd be personally missing out on anything. I just accept that I can't boycott everything and pick and choose how I want to voice my disapproval, as I did with the aforementioned Dragon Quest XI.
I view the issues in these games as symptomatic of broader conservatism in Japanese culture. I play Japanese games, but do not anticipate that any developers are LGBT friendly. It's not going to affect my purchases of games, but I'm not going to go out of my way to play a game like Catherine.
I do hope that more awareness can spread within Japan of these issues, but I also get the impression that things are just in a very confused state in general within the country. DQXI is an interesting game, because it definitely seems to come from a "pro" LGBT position, but its representation of a "gay" character could just as well be considered to be a harmful stereotype. It's confusing, because it seems that the concepts of being transgender and being gay are often conflated with each other ("okama").
I do hope that more awareness can spread within Japan of these issues, but I also get the impression that things are just in a very confused state in general within the country. DQXI is an interesting game, because it definitely seems to come from a "pro" LGBT position, but its representation of a "gay" character could just as well be considered to be a harmful stereotype. It's confusing, because it seems that the concepts of being transgender and being gay are often conflated with each other ("okama").
User Warned: Hostility, ignoring mod post
"I'm only willing to do something if it means I don't have to sacrifice anything."
"Gamers"
Jesus fucking christ. I'm done with this shit.
I was never going to buy Catherine: Full Body but the positive impact the Persona games have brought me vastly outweigh some of the ignorant material in them. I'm not saying ignorance doesn't exist in the games (and it obviously needs to be corrected) but the games don't revolve around that ignorant material. There's HUGE amounts of great storytelling and positive themes in Persona games that outweigh the ignorance for me. If another studio was developing quality JRPG's with as much style and great systems as the Persona games it would be easy to jump ship to a competitor but I'm not willing to throw out quality art like the Persona series to protest a game I was never going to buy anyway.
A game is made by more than one person. Sugiyama needs to die ASAP, but Dragon Quest XI is a brilliant game, for example. Same can be said about Hashino and the Persona series.
I mean, if you want to argue my points, I'd appreciate it if you didn't distill it into an attempt at painting me as some troglodyte and discarding all nuance.
Nope. Of course, I haven't purchased an Atlus game since 3D Dot Game Heroes on PlayStation 3 so none of the stuff they do or don't do doesn't affect me whatsoever to begin with.
Again, that's fine. You do you.
I just find that criticism while still buying the products gets nothing done in a case like this where it's clearly a recurring trend.
Sugiyama is just the composer. Hashino has been a director and a producer for multiple games and leads his own studio, which can certainly affect how these games portrayal certain things.
Absolutely. I'm just saying boycotting games/studios is not the way, because that will hurt more than one person (although, let's be honest, this boycotting stuff has never achieved anything in the videogames industry anyway).
Yes, I will continue buying and enjoying Atlus games, it's one of my favorite companies.
In the same way as Pablo Picasso was an egoist piece of human shit that fucked up to a lot of contemporary artists, and I can go to a museum and enjoy one of his paintings.
In the same way as Luis Buñuel was a misogynist and a compulsive jealous who treated to his wife like shit, but he's still one of my favorite filmmakers.
In the same way as most of the best writers of the 20th century were egoist persons trying to throw shit to the rest of their colleagues, as a way of taking the fame for them.
In the same way as I'm a leftist and I can watch a film of Gaspar Noe filled with justifications of the fascism and alt-right positions. And I love how from an intellectual standpoint, he tries to defy my own vision of the world, creating something close to a performance to fuck off the brains of the spectators.
As someone who loves art, I have learned to separate the art pieces from their creators.
And Katsura Hashino created one of my all-time favorite games, 'Maken X'.
I'm only a bit jealous of the PS4 owners, because it's a game that I really want to play on Switch.
The only difference after knowing all the shit surrounding this guy, it's that there is no way in which I will go to drink some beers with him.
My beers and whisky time is reserved only for nice people.
In the same way as Pablo Picasso was an egoist piece of human shit that fucked up to a lot of contemporary artists, and I can go to a museum and enjoy one of his paintings.
In the same way as Luis Buñuel was a misogynist and a compulsive jealous who treated to his wife like shit, but he's still one of my favorite filmmakers.
In the same way as most of the best writers of the 20th century were egoist persons trying to throw shit to the rest of their colleagues, as a way of taking the fame for them.
In the same way as I'm a leftist and I can watch a film of Gaspar Noe filled with justifications of the fascism and alt-right positions. And I love how from an intellectual standpoint, he tries to defy my own vision of the world, creating something close to a performance to fuck off the brains of the spectators.
As someone who loves art, I have learned to separate the art pieces from their creators.
And Katsura Hashino created one of my all-time favorite games, 'Maken X'.
I'm only a bit jealous of the PS4 owners, because it's a game that I really want to play on Switch.
The only difference after knowing all the shit surrounding this guy, it's that there is no way in which I will go to drink some beers with him.
My beers and whisky time is reserved only for nice people.
It's difficult to decide to what thread to reply to when it comes to the re-release of Catherine. Based on the information we had and Hashino's output I think I made the right call a long time ago to not buy Full Body. I've talked about Hashino's problematic views in other threads and on Discord with a group of nice people who happen to be RPG fans as well.
I've said multiple times that the real reason why Persona gets bad representation scenes is because Hashino is an idiot; I didn't think that he was being harmful on purpose but after the bits I've seen today it's obvious the dude's seriously fucked up. I won't boycott the whole Atlus because of him but like with Full Body if I see or suspect his toxic views may appear to poison more games I can always ignore them. It's really not hard to do so.
Hopefully we won't have to see another Persona game directed by him.
I've said multiple times that the real reason why Persona gets bad representation scenes is because Hashino is an idiot; I didn't think that he was being harmful on purpose but after the bits I've seen today it's obvious the dude's seriously fucked up. I won't boycott the whole Atlus because of him but like with Full Body if I see or suspect his toxic views may appear to poison more games I can always ignore them. It's really not hard to do so.
Hopefully we won't have to see another Persona game directed by him.
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I really feel it's different when the person in question is in charge of assets rather than the narrative, tbh. Here they are actively pushing an agenda based on hate. It's part of the essence of these games. It's not the guy doing the music. Both are crap but here is far more explicit shit being dispersed willingly and consciously.
If Persona 6 came out tomorrow, and it looked like it had the same quality of P5, I'll definitely pick it up, regardless of if Hashino is involved or not. Now, Catherine is a game that I've been meaning to try out for a while, and while this new controversy is certainly concerning, I'll still probably end up picking the game up eventually anyway.
What? No. Catherine isn't even a popular game to begin with. Its about a dude having wet dreams lol you all really think the statement its making matters?
Edit: saw the other thread. Didn't know he has a history of this shit and its ramping up. I played all those games and never noticed the trend. Carry on.
Edit: saw the other thread. Didn't know he has a history of this shit and its ramping up. I played all those games and never noticed the trend. Carry on.
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Nah, still gonna get any Atlus game that interests me.
Catherine, incidentally, was never one of those games.
Catherine, incidentally, was never one of those games.
Bought Catherine years ago on PS3, but I kind of hated the puzzle elements, so I wasnt really too interested in this version. but no, it wont affect my future Atlus purchases. Persona games are some of my absolute favorites, so 0% chance that I would boycott or stop buying them. Just love the series too damn much. As for used games, I only buy new nowadays, so that doesnt play any factor.
If they show growth of course i wouldnt mind supporting them again. But this stuff has been waning on me and the recent Catherine thing was the straw that made me go "Nah im sick of this"' so for now im done with their games. Im just not feeling anything Atlus right now
no offense but who cares. If i was someone who didnt like RPGs im also "hurting" a passionate team by not buying their games, but you would never argue that. It so goofy when its a stance like "This game promotes transphobic ideas" people are suddenly like "Well maybe not everyone on the team is transphobic so youre hurting them" Okay? Theyre not owed my patronage anymore than the person who doesnt like RPGs.
No. I bought Catherine 100% for the gameplay back in 2011 and its one of my all time favorites.
I'm buying Full Body for the same reason. But I'm not planning on picking up Project Re Fantasy for a variety of reasons.
I'm buying Full Body for the same reason. But I'm not planning on picking up Project Re Fantasy for a variety of reasons.
I mean this in the least snarky way possible: you're missing a "No, I don't really buy ATLUS games to begin with" option
Not buying Catherine, and I'll be taking a wait and see/buy used policy going forward. SMT mainline will probably be fine, but just in case.
No more day one or blind purchases
Going to wait until the game has been out and combed through for any of their bullshit
Going to wait until the game has been out and combed through for any of their bullshit