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Has there been a single "Let's ignore/ retcon out X part of the franchise fans didn't like" success story?
- Thread starter Fj0823
- Start date
OP
OP
If we go by some of the poster logic in here...
No they didn't! That's Davis! He's right there at the right in the final episodes! That alone makes his repeated absence and all the plot problems created by doing an effort to keep him out and never show or mention him or the events of 02 not applicable!
Then they take him to a hospital off screen!
02 is well represented!
They weren't just talking about money, they mention the reception of ROS, but yeah I do think all the money they made still counts as a "success story" from the title.
Mark from Parks and Recreation. This man never existed and the show is better for it. I love how, in his last episode, he gives Leslie plans for the layout of the park she wants to build, and then a few seasons later there's an entire episode about doing that exact thing that doesn't even acknowledge the plans he gave her.
One of the few great examples. I almost forgot he existed
Yeah its not the entire premise but its a foundation for the character and he's dealing with the scars of that time for the entire game.
Yeah, like its setup in the game so possible sequels can dive into it. But GoW doesn't even begin to broach the shit he did outside of killing his father.
OP
OP
I don't think this counts, since one follows the actual story while the other greatly deviates from it.
I don't think, for example, that rebuild of Evangelion ignores the story of Evangelion, it's simply a different take.
It would be different if a FMA "sequel" came out and simply ignored the ending and went back to the brothers journeying together like the ending never happened
Kratos' entire attitude and demeanor is a result of his actions, its pretty obvious the entire game that even though he doesn't talk about it (which is in character for him) it still weighs on him heavily.
This game was a remake of the original Metroid 2: Samus Returns for Gameboy.I always interpreted Samus Returns as an apology letter for Other M and conspicuous course correction. Some elements of it seeped through though, like the emphasis on ninja-esque action moves and those silly wedge heels Sakamoto refuses to get over.
On Her Majesty's Secret Service is the greatest Bond film ever though
No it takes place after it and then fixes it
That's not pretending it never happened
OP
OP
Yu-Gi-Oh SEVENS ignored all previous 6 series, and creates it's own ruleset for the game while ignoring the original rules (even though they are implied to exist)
And the shows the best Yu-Gi-Oh has been in years...
I can't believe I forgot that one
Unless having a random character summon Blue-Eyes white dragon once counts
And the shows the best Yu-Gi-Oh has been in years...
I can't believe I forgot that one
Unless having a random character summon Blue-Eyes white dragon once counts
And all three of the sequel trilogy films made more than a billion dollars, so I'm not sure what counts as a "success story" if those don't. Yeah, TROS is dogshit, but it was not a failure by any metric that would matter to Disney.
The only failure in the Disney Star Wars film lineup is Solo, which lost money and references the prequels the most of any of the five films. So there's that theory out the window about four different ways.
Never heard of it so I searched it up and holy fucking shit what!?
That's a bit what happened with Dragon Ball Super ignoring GT, although of course it doesn't make any sense that all of the developments in Super aren't mentioned in GT so the latter can be safely considered retconned out.
He was in that body at the end of X3 and just reshaped it essentially
It is, but it is a remake that seems to deliberately take as little infuence from its predecessor (Other M) as possible.
In fact, all of the TF colonies have female Cybertronians: not just Caminus, but all others like Velocitron (Moonracer), Eukaris (Airazor, Blackarachnia), Carcer (Elita One), etc. It's been vaguelly alluded to that Cybertron originally also had two genders, but became a single-gender society at some point in the past (most likely after the departure of the colonists). As far as I know, no explanation was ever given for that transition; my own theories include the oppressive Functionist government having a hand on it, or perhaps lack of contact with organic species that rightfully avoided Cybertron like the plague (Anode mentions it's this contact that made her question her own gender).
It's worth noting that Capcom doesn't mind using characters from Street Fighter III, it just seems to be the whole "ditching the existing cast" thing they want to avoid.
On that note, Soul Calibur VI is a reboot that mostly recalls the first game but also pulls in characters, movesets, and appearences introduced in II, III, and IV.
Let's not talk about V.
On that note, Soul Calibur VI is a reboot that mostly recalls the first game but also pulls in characters, movesets, and appearences introduced in II, III, and IV.
Let's not talk about V.
Sat in that nebulous spot for years where it wasn't acknowledged by the series creator and when he would get involved in stuff it would be firmly ignored. In a DBS world the property has added so many new characters and world elements its hard to see how it could be canon now either.
It wasn't just "it made money." TFA and TLJ were darling films. Do u know how many studios wish they could have a TFA tier "faceplant?"
Nothing about TFA soured the vast majority of people off of SW, not with TLJ. TROS even managed to be a terrible prequel quality tier film and even THAT didn't sour people on SW.
It doesn't go nearly far enough in emphasizing just how terrible of a person Kratos is. At least when it comes to the plot. But as a character driven narrative it's absolutely about a toxic relationship between a father and son. Due of the former's past affecting his ability to properly form a relationship. I do think the game should've been much more adamant about it as it never even touches on him killing his family but I suspect that the sequel which was teased as having a time skip will address that part specifically.
Yes, this. It is better for everyone if we just pretend that there is no Highlander 2.
Also Superman 3 and 4.
The rape of Carol Danvers. Actually I'm sure there are many, many, many examples of "good" comic book retcons because of the nature of work for hire superhero comics.
Not a whole chapter or movie, but:
the fast saga
More purely a retcon that straight up ignoring what came before, but it's the finest example of retconning in media history
the fast saga
More purely a retcon that straight up ignoring what came before, but it's the finest example of retconning in media history
Rocky Balboa ignores Rocky V.
Dragon ball Super effectively ignores everything after the Kidd Buu saga.
Dragon ball Super effectively ignores everything after the Kidd Buu saga.
Please tell me where is Anakin in the final 3 films of the "Skywalker saga" and tell me why he let his worst enemy torture his family for decades, eventually leading to their literal death, one by one. Never tried to help his nephew, his daughter, etc... nope.
Or why he let Luke fail to find the mcguffin to reach exogol even though Anakin himself had the device ..?
Please.
Once you realize this makes 0 sense, and the only reason is that they wanted to please RLM as FJ pointed out, maybe you'll get it.
Doesn't it happen before the events of End of Z and GT, though? It's still supposed to canonically go to "end of Z" hence Ubuu showing up but still having no clue what's going on. The only reason GT seems like it's out the window is because Super made up these super powerful forms that (obviously) don't show up or get mentioned later.
I mean it's obvious GT isn't happening in this timeline but I wouldn't say it ignores it when timeline wise it happens before it.
With all the Super Saiyan God drama I doubt Ubuu would have even registered a blip on Goku's radar considering how insignificant Buu would be at that point. The ending of Z only really makes sense if the events of Super didn't occur and Buu was the last powerful villain everyone faced.
i felt like GOW worked precisely because it reckons with its' own past and lore. There is also something to be said of the player's knowledge of the previous games being a stand-in for characters constantly talking about those events to give them bearing on the plot.
Xenosaga I&II on Nntendo DS retconned the PS2 games. Episode III followed the story of I&II. I wouldn't really call it a success; the series was basically doomed at that point. Nintendo bought Monolithsoft not long after the release of Episode III. The changes they made for I&II were great, though. It's my preferred version of the story. It's just a shame there never was an English release.
On the topic of Dragonball, the Super incarnation of Broly is in my opinion an improvement in every way over the original. Loved that movie so much I saw it twice in theaters.
Came here to post the same.
Mark from Parks and Recreation. This man never existed and the show is better for it. I love how, in his last episode, he gives Leslie plans for the layout of the park she wants to build, and then a few seasons later there's an entire episode about doing that exact thing that doesn't even acknowledge the plans he gave her.
Nearly everyone returned for the finale season and they didn't even give him a mention.
Luckily they have the excuse that it's a different universe or whatever, since the reboot was a reimagining of the story and characters.
God, we were so fortunate to get DMC5.
Godzilla resets it's timeline to "starting over again after the original movie" every 20 years and it's fine.
I mean the ending is not a big revelation or anything so i can see them keeping it
Since it was basically an excuse to have Sylux get a Metroid
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The most blatent example of this kind of thing is probably Red Dwarf.
Seasons 1 - 6 : Rimmer is dead and an asshole
Season 7: Rimmer is dead and a hero (and exits to a parallel universe)
Season 8: Rimmer is alive and an asshole (and a different entity to seasons 1-7)
Seasons 9-13: Rimmer is dead and an asshole again.
No direct information is given about whether S9-13 Rimmer is Rimmer #1 or Rimmer #2.
It doesn't make sense for it to be Rimmer #1, because there are episodes where he shows a modicum of courage and its treated as major character development.
If it's Rimmer #2, no explanation of his second* death is ever actually given. What's even funnier is that last shot of Seaons 8 is him literally kicking the Grim Reaper in the nuts.
Creator is on record as saying its Rimmer #1 but explaining what happened 'wouldn't be funny'. Since 7 and 8 are universally considered to be the weakest seasons, no-one cares in the slightest except in the ultrafan compulsion to have every detail squared away nicely.
(*technically third but that's not important right now)
In the 'same but completely opposite' catagory, it also has the most blatent example of 'important stuff happening offscreen' between seasons 2 and 3 - with Lister giving birth to twins (a big deal as he's the last human alive), Kryten joining the crew as a permanent member, and Holly changing actors/appearence/gender and a major set redesign. A script exists which covered all this, but was never made because 'it wasn't funny'
Seasons 1 - 6 : Rimmer is dead and an asshole
Season 7: Rimmer is dead and a hero (and exits to a parallel universe)
Season 8: Rimmer is alive and an asshole (and a different entity to seasons 1-7)
Seasons 9-13: Rimmer is dead and an asshole again.
No direct information is given about whether S9-13 Rimmer is Rimmer #1 or Rimmer #2.
It doesn't make sense for it to be Rimmer #1, because there are episodes where he shows a modicum of courage and its treated as major character development.
If it's Rimmer #2, no explanation of his second* death is ever actually given. What's even funnier is that last shot of Seaons 8 is him literally kicking the Grim Reaper in the nuts.
Creator is on record as saying its Rimmer #1 but explaining what happened 'wouldn't be funny'. Since 7 and 8 are universally considered to be the weakest seasons, no-one cares in the slightest except in the ultrafan compulsion to have every detail squared away nicely.
(*technically third but that's not important right now)
In the 'same but completely opposite' catagory, it also has the most blatent example of 'important stuff happening offscreen' between seasons 2 and 3 - with Lister giving birth to twins (a big deal as he's the last human alive), Kryten joining the crew as a permanent member, and Holly changing actors/appearence/gender and a major set redesign. A script exists which covered all this, but was never made because 'it wasn't funny'
Not sure if it really counts but the Godzilla series has reset the timeline and wiped out the previous movies in the series multiple times:
I actually did think about that, but Marvel TV was kept pretty separate at the time (wasn't that still Perlmutter? Or am I misremembering?) so I'm personally more okay with handwaving it.
HOWEVER, I think it's totally valid to consider it an actual answer to OP's question, because it was clearly at least considered at one point.
Kinda.
Inhumans didn't start out as a TV series. It started out as an announced film for Phase 3. Those plans got dialed back to Marvel Television (this is likely due to the Perlmutter/Feige conflict- Inhumans was always Perlmutter's baby) but at the time, Marvel TV wasn't all that separate- Agent Carter had been moved to ABC and that one *IS* canon to the MCU as far as anyone knows. Marvel's Most Wanted was planned to tie into the MCU but ABC passed on it, leading to Inhumans moving to a TV spot.
Inhumans just got buried after a problematic development period and Perlmutter losing most of his influence. Not only is it "not canon", that show and everyone on it is persona non grata and never, EVER mentioned, which didn't happen with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. or even the Netflix Marvel stuff.
That was kind of it's own thing, not really directly related I thought.