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Wordballoons

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Oct 30, 2017
1,061
User banned (permanent): Creating an inflammatory troll thread. History of inflammatory posting, metacommentary and hostility towards the community.
africasacountry.com

If Africa is a country, then Fidel Castro is one of our national heroes

On 25 November 2016, Fidel Castro passed away. To many Africans Fidel was a hero, playing a central role in their liberation from colonialism.

He's definitely not "the homie," but now that you are here: I thought this article was interesting. He'd be 90 today. Certainly a complicated figure. I've never thought about the Angolan war before and its implications on apartheid

If Africa is a country, then Fidel Castro is one of our national heroes. This may come as a surprise to many oblivious of Africa's postcolonial history and Castro's role in it – especially the fate of white regimes and former Portuguese colonies in southern Africa. In the west, Castro's legacy is usually dismissed as an authoritarian, and Cuba as a one-party state with few freedoms. Despite the many achievements of Cuba under Castro (high quality public healthcare, as well as life expectancy, child immunisation and literacy systems parallel to those of first-world nations, and even surpassing the US), at various times the country became renowned for economic crisis, media repression, exiling and imprisoning dissidents, and discriminating against gays and people with AIDS.

Those things were a betrayal of the revolution, and it is important to acknowledge that. But history has absolved Castro when it comes to Cuba's foreign policy, especially its Africa policy.

A great irony about the reaction to Castro is that many of the same people demanding acknowledgement of his wrongs have never acknowledged that their governments were on the wrong side of history, or sponsored dictatorships in many developing countries.

After fronting the Cuban revolution against a corrupt, American-sponsored dictatorship in 1959, Cuba under Fidel worked hard to develop its own distinct foreign policy independent from that of its more powerful neighbour, the United States, or its supposed ally, the Soviet Union. Africa became central to that foreign policy. For me, and people of my generation, Fidel Castro entered our consciousness as a hero of our liberation. He wasn't just fighting for an abstract cause. He was fighting for us.

One of Castro's central foreign policy goals was internationalism – the promotion of decolonisation and revolutionary politics abroad. This involved sending troops to fight in wars against colonial or proxy forces on the African continent, as well as supporting those movements with logistical and technical support. Cuba sent troops but it also sent tens of thousands of Cuban doctors, dentists, nurses, health-care technicians, academics, teachers and engineers to the continent and elsewhere. That a significant proportion of Cubans trace their ancestries to west and central Africa (owing to slavery) contributes to this politics.

Critics of Cuba have pointed to the paradox of Cuba's African policy: while Cuba has a progressive foreign policy on race, at home Afro-Cubans have often been at odds with the Communist party's failure to reflect the full range of Cuba's racial diversity in its leadership structures or to fully address race politics.

Castro's regime did achieve more for Afro-Cubans in 50 years than previous administrations had in the last 400 years. But as the Council on Hemispheric Affairs concludes, Castro's policies "only addressed issues of unequal access without changing structural biases underlying society". And it added, with the new wave of economic changes affecting the country, "race and racism are once again becoming important issues in Cuba".

Cuba's involvement in Africa started with its support of Algeria's liberation struggle against France, then moved to the Congo, now the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). In 1964 Castro sent his personal emissary, Che Guevara, on a three-month visit to a number of African countries. The Cubans believed there was a revolutionary situation in central Africa, and they wanted to help, argues the historian Piero Gleijeses.

While Cuba record in the Horn of Africa was mixed under Castro (it followed the Soviet Union's lead in militarily aiding Ethiopia's dictatorship against a Somalian invasion and Eritrean independence fighters), successes did follow elsewhere, where it pursued a more independent foreign policy.

Even as Cuba's intervention struggled in Congo, Amilcar Cabral, leading a guerrilla struggle against Portuguese colonialism in Guinea Bissau and Cape Verde, asked for Cuban assistance. Between 1966 and 1974 a small Cuban force proved pivotal in the Guineans' victory over the Portuguese. Following the Carnation Revolution in Portugal in 1974, Guinea-Bissau finally won independence.

Cuba's involvement in the freedom of South Africa from white minority rule was even more dramatic. Twice – in 1976 and again in 1988 – the Cubans defeated a US-supported proxy force of the South African apartheid army and Angolan "rebels". These instances were the first times South Africa's army was defeated, a humbling experience that the apartheid regime's white generals still, in retirement, find hard to stomach.

As Gleijeses told Democracy Now! in December 2013, at the time of Mandela's passing, black South Africans understood the significance of these defeats. The black South African newspaper the World wrote about the skirmishes: "Black Africa is riding the crest of a wave generated by the Cuban victory in Angola."

Gleijeses remembered Mandela writing from Robben Island: "It was the first time that a country had come from another continent not to take something away, but to help Africans to achieve their freedom."

In a 1998 speech, Fidel Castro told the South African parliament during his first visit to the country that by the end of the cold war at least 381,432 Cuban soldiers and officers had been on duty or "fought hand-in-hand with African soldiers and officers in this continent for national independence or against foreign aggression". Many Cubans also lost their lives in these wars. In 1987, the Los Angeles Times reported that "10,000 Cuban troops have been killed in Angola since 1976 … proportionately much higher than American fatalities in Vietnam".

Given this history, it was no surprise that one of Mandela's first trips outside South Africa – after he was freed – was to Havana. There, in July 1991, Mandela referred to Castro as "a source of inspiration to all freedom-loving people". At the end of his Cuban trip, Mandela responded to American criticism about his loyalty to Castro: "We are now being advised about Cuba by people who have supported the apartheid regime these last 40 years. No honourable man or woman could ever accept advice from people who never cared for us at the most difficult times."

The cold war ended a long time ago, but Cuba continues its involvement on the African continent, including training Africans in Cuban universities. During the Ebola outbreak in three west African countries, even Cuba's US critics had to acknowledge the Cuban contribution to alleviating the crisis. At one point during the Ebola crisis, Cuba – a country with only 11 million people – had supplied the largest contingent of foreign medical personnel by any single nation working alongside African medics.

Altogether fitting was President Raúl Castro's address at Nelson Mandela's funeral in 2013. In Johannesburg, Raúl reminded his audience: "We shall never forget Mandela's moving homage to our common struggle when on the occasion of his visit to our country on 26 July, 1991, he said: 'The Cuban people have a special place in the hearts of the peoples of Africa.'"

If Raúl Castro decided to give all the credit for that love to his older brother, Fidel, no one would blame him.
 
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OP
OP

Wordballoons

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,061
Why are you celebrating this? SMH
It was more that I found the article interesting, tbh.

A great irony about the reaction to Castro is that many of the same people demanding acknowledgement of his wrongs have never acknowledged that their governments were on the wrong side of history, or sponsored dictatorships in many developing countries.
Given this history, it was no surprise that one of Mandela's first trips outside South Africa – after he was freed – was to Havana. There, in July 1991, Mandela referred to Castro as "a source of inspiration to all freedom-loving people". At the end of his Cuban trip, Mandela responded to American criticism about his loyalty to Castro: "We are now being advised about Cuba by people who have supported the apartheid regime these last 40 years. No honourable man or woman could ever accept advice from people who never cared for us at the most difficult times."
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,179
One of the greatest left wing leaders of the past 50 years. Obviously a complicated figure, but he was a great hero of the anti-colonial and anti-imperialist push in the global south.
 

Deleted member 6263

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Oct 25, 2017
9,387
Ehh he's not so bad, we even named a street after him in San Francisco.

P8lS-zApBfQN0i5iRJT84eN-QCluyFg6K0ZibehjXCY.jpg
 
OP
OP

Wordballoons

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,061
It seems like OP isn't celebrating, but found related positive article and thought it'd be interesting to discuss.

I personally don't think whatever good he did could make up for the bad.
Yeah, I realise that Castro was also a jackass. Hence why I said he was complicated. The title of the thread was to lighten the tone, but perhaps it was in poor taste.
 

demosthenes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,604
What is this thread. You want to have a discussion on what you believe to be a complicated person, frame it like that. Not wishing the man a happy birthday.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,179
He was great for queer people too.

I didn't say he was perfect. Yes, Castro did things that I don't agree with. But he liberated his country from a brutal dictator, and lead a massive advancement in literacy, health care, and quality of life, and was a consistent ally against imperialism. His shortcomings must be acknowledged, but you can't do that while throwing out all of the good he did for the world.
 

nampad

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,238
Interesting, didn't knew the stuff about his support of the African countries, at least not to that degree.
I mean tens of thousands highly qualified helpers, is this true? How could Cuba do something like that when they were in need as well?
 

Deleted member 3896

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Oct 25, 2017
5,815
I didn't say he was perfect. Yes, Castro did things that I don't agree with. But he liberated his country from a brutal dictator, and lead a massive advancement in literacy, health care, and quality of life, and was a consistent ally against imperialism. His shortcomings must be acknowledged, but you can't do that while throwing out all of the good he did for the world.
Yikes
 

Madison

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Oct 27, 2017
8,388
Lima, Peru
Castro"s legacy is Cuba. A complicated country that has problems with free speech and a reputation of, well, having a lot of political prisoners.

But Cuba, in many ways, is above most latin american countries when it comes to food intake, healthcare, housing, lgbt rights and education. There are things that we should rightfully criticize when it comes to Castro and Cuba, but many positive achievements should be celebrated and learned from.

I dont really care about painting Castro as either this amazing leader for social justice (he wasnt) while I also dont care about painting him as public enemy N°1 (he wasnt). He was born 90 years ago, and undoubtedly changed the world.

If anyone has a doubt about any of my claims, please ask me and I"ll gladly link you to sources. Lets learn.
Interesting, didn't knew the stuff about his support of the African countries, at least not to that degree.
I mean tens of thousands highly qualified helpers, is this true? How could Cuba do something like that when they were in need as well?
Cuba"s economy was doing "pretty fine" during the 70s. Thats the peak of material conditions for the average cuban, the collapse of the Soviet Union is what made things a lot more difficult for their gdp.
 

Olorin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,077
As a Cuban -what the fuck is this. Why even bring up this monster in the first place.
 

Cat Party

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Oct 25, 2017
10,420
This is like the third or fourth time someone has posted a happy birthday thread to a communist dictator within the last year.
 

Emergency & I

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Oct 27, 2017
6,634
One of my best friends is Cuban. She spent her first 22 years there. She actually married her gay Cuban friend to get him out of the country and he's since become a Mexican citizen (she's straight). Her hatred of Castro is next-level and from everything she's told me, more than justified.


FUCK this thread.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,179
Interesting, didn't knew the stuff about his support of the African countries, at least not to that degree.
I mean tens of thousands highly qualified helpers, is this true? How could Cuba do something like that when they were in need as well?

Because it was the right thing to do. If you look at just about any humanitarian crisis in the past 50 years, you'll find Cuban doctors on the scene. In spite of how harshly they've been beaten down by US sanctions, they've maintained a great commitment to helping others in need.
 
OP
OP

Wordballoons

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,061
Personally I just think Cuba's involvement in Angola was pivotal and that the border war helped lead to the fall of apartheid and believe that is pretty bad ass, but I definitely should have framed the title better. Maybe someone can edit it to make it more appropriate as the topic was more about the article I posted and quoted in full ....
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,742
I didn't say he was perfect. Yes, Castro did things that I don't agree with. But he liberated his country from a brutal dictator, and lead a massive advancement in literacy, health care, and quality of life, and was a consistent ally against imperialism. His shortcomings must be acknowledged, but you can't do that while throwing out all of the good he did for the world.

This is a "but Hitler improved Germany's infrastructure"-level take. The guy made death camps, that DOES throw out all the "good" he did for the world.
 

Josh5890

I'm Your Favorite Poster's Favorite Poster
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
23,229
I clicked on this thread thinking there was no way this was actually about Fidel Castro. It can't be........
 

Deleted member 3208

Oct 25, 2017
11,934
I get why you can disagree, but it shouldn't be that controversial, really. People unironically praise Reagan and simp for Bush, I don't think this is that beyond the pale.
It is controversial. Castro was a criminal. Reagan was a criminal. Both Bush were criminal too. We shouldn't be celebrating their birthdays or praise anything they did. SMH.

Damn, what's next? Celebrate when Chávez or Maduro were born?
 

Deleted member 23212

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Castro definitely had his flaws, and I wouldn't call him a good person. I think that Cuba with Batista in power and no revolution in the 1950s would have resulted in a Cuba much worse off today, though.
 

Lobster Roll

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Sep 24, 2019
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I get why you can disagree, but it shouldn't be that controversial, really. People unironically praise Reagan and simp for Bush, I don't think this is that beyond the pale.
You just used Reagan and Bush as benchmarks, two men that are near-universally reviled on Era. Did you take a wrong turn on your way over here?
 

captmcblack

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Oct 25, 2017
5,065
Note that this thread very likely exists in part for a future posting somewhere complaining that some American political figure gets to have a post, but not this specific person.
 

Eeyore

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I get why you can disagree, but it shouldn't be that controversial, really. People unironically praise Reagan and simp for Bush, I don't think this is that beyond the pale.

These people you shouldn't take seriously. It's not really that complicated, at least to me. Dictators shouldn't be praised even if some of the things they do are good. It's almost normalizing them.
 
OP
OP

Wordballoons

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,061
Note that this thread very likely exists in part for a future posting somewhere complaining that some American political figure gets to have a post, but not this specific person.
It was really more just a way to get people to click the thread to read an article I thought would otherwise be ignored but sure.
 
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