Halo Infinite | Story and Lore (Spoilers)

[Gravemind IV]

I am still a bit lost at the timelines. One of the cutscenes show Cortana spotting the Infinity. But didn't the Banished immediately ambush the Infinity? But then how did Chief already get on Zeta Halo and deploy the weapon to contain Cortana?

Was Cortana already 'contained' when she was speaking with Atriox?

Either way, If the Infinity showed up first. Wouldn't Cortana have a few guardians in place? One would be enough to deal with the Infinity. There is even a crashed Guardian on Zeta Halo, so I am assuming yes? If the Banished arrived later.. then how the hell did they get the jump on the Infinity?

It all makes little sense to be honest.

can't believe how many of the cutscenes are just spooky brute hologram or Weapon talking

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This. 90% is the Weapon making gestures or Escharum giving some long-ass speech.

 

[Gunny T Highway]

I am still a bit lost at the timelines. One of the cutscenes show Cortana spotting the Infinity. But didn't the Banished immediately ambush the Infinity? But then how did Chief already get on Zeta Halo and deploy the weapon to contain Cortana?

Click to shrink...

When the Infinity was attacked I think I remember a audio log that had Laskey deploying the Weapon early because of the attack from Atriox via some method (probably a weapon drop pod) even though it was the Chief's job to escort the weapon to isolate Cortana. Maybe I am wrong because I am now just as confused after reading your post.

 

[BossAttack]

Honestly I think the events that take place before the game opens is a more interesting story than the one you get to play. 😄

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Nah, because that story is actually about Chief confronting Cortana which is actually interesting.

 

[Trey]

I am still a bit lost at the timelines. One of the cutscenes show Cortana spotting the Infinity. But didn't the Banished immediately ambush the Infinity? But then how did Chief already get on Zeta Halo and deploy the weapon to contain Cortana?

Click to shrink...

it's all over the place. best read I have is the UNSC shows up to zeta halo and gets their shit rocked immediately by the banished. Lasky then deploys the weapon, atriox works chiefs ribs out then spaces him, and some time after that weapon locks down Cortana and atriox captures the latter, who then nukes zeta halo in atonement to keep it from being used by the banished.

Cortana probably saw the infinity get bodied which is partly why the weapon caught her unaware afterward.

 

[Nooblet]

I never played Halo Wars 2 so I don't know how the banished got their power. But I find it odd that they were able to take down Infinity in like 4 minutes. I don't buy it.

I get that Cortana was trapped and she couldn't use the Guardians but if Chief trapped her and went back up, and it was then that Atriox ambushed. Then it doesn't make sense how he got down after that and still found Cortana alive there. Additionally the way it's presented makes it seem like Banished got there first. In which case Cortana wouldn't have been trapped and she could still use the Guardians.

I am sure I'm missing something but the opening sequence of events is simply done very very poorly.

 

[Abrasion Test]

can't believe how many of the cutscenes are just spooky brute hologram or Weapon talking

Click to shrink...

Feels like every cutscene was shot in a short time span with how limited they are. It just gets so disappointingly repetitive.

 

[Gunny T Highway]

I never played Halo Wars 2 so I don't know how the banished got their power. But I find it odd that they were able to take down Infinity in like 4 minutes. I don't buy it.

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You can tell from the Banished ships that are hovering in the background on Zeta that it appears they fortified old covenant cruisers to be able to just straight up ram ships. All it takes is to ram a ship enough to split it all apart even something as big as the infinity.

 

[Outrun]

I never played Halo Wars 2 so I don't know how the banished got their power. But I find it odd that they were able to take down Infinity in like 4 minutes. I don't buy it.

I get that Cortana was trapped and she couldn't use the Guardians but if Chief trapped her and went back up, and it was then that Atriox ambushed. Then it doesn't make sense how he got down after that and still found Cortana alive there. Additionally the way it's presented makes it seem like Banished got there first. In which case Cortana wouldn't have been trapped and she could still use the Guardians.

I am sure I'm missing something but the opening sequence of events is simply done very very poorly.

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It does throw you out there.

Watch YT Halo Wars 2 cutscenes for a primer.

343i should have done a Story So Far video.

 

[Trey]

I never played Halo Wars 2 so I don't know how the banished got their power. But I find it odd that they were able to take down Infinity in like 4 minutes. I don't buy it.

I get that Cortana was trapped and she couldn't use the Guardians but if Chief trapped her and went back up, and it was then that Atriox ambushed. Then it doesn't make sense how he got down after that and still found Cortana alive there. Additionally the way it's presented makes it seem like Banished got there first. In which case Cortana wouldn't have been trapped and she could still use the Guardians.

I am sure I'm missing something but the opening sequence of events is simply done very very poorly.

Click to shrink...

unsc logs show the weapon wasn't deployed when the infinity got attacked. She was deployed soon after evacuation. Banished had to be on zeta halo for a long time by then already mopping up the UNSC forces that were already there (mostly scientists, some military).

 

[BossAttack]

I've never understood how the Covenant are so technologically superior to humans despite them also being dumb as shit and worshipping Forerunner technology to the point they refuse to accept what it does.

Hell, unless this is covered in books I don't even know how Covenant reproduce. I don't think I've ever seen a female Brute or Elite.

 

[Welfare]

DeMarco
Thorne

...Ya that's about it (Crimson were us, the players).

...Oh, and it seems DeMarco got killed off in a comic book lol.

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Looked into this and holy shit he's in this meme pic

 

[Trey]

I've never understood how the Covenant are so technologically superior to humans despite them also being dumb as shit and worshipping Forerunner technology to the point they refuse to accept what it does.

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prophet race are scientifically gifted (and horny), and had access to forerunner tech for thousands of years before heading the covenant and discovering humanity. Elites are built and bred for combat and only folded into the covenant after the prophets fucked their shit up using forerunner tech.

basically the short of it covenant had access to forerunner tech for a long time. In the 50 years or so since humanity had first contact with the covenant, they were only able to catch up technologically due to Halsey creating smart AI like Cortana, who was able to reverse engineer forerunner tech the covenant used to make slip space travel more efficient and shielding better, etc

before that humanity was getting completely annihilated outside the ground missions Spartans went on, because even though the covenant couldn't use forerunner tech to max potential, it was still light years beyond human tech.

 

[BossAttack]

prophet race are scientifically gifted (and horny), and had access to forerunner tech for thousands of years before heading the covenant and discovering humanity. Elites are built and bred for combat and only folded into the covenant after the prophets fucked their shit up using forerunner tech.

basically the short of it covenant had access to forerunner tech for a long time. In the 50 years or so since humanity had first contact with the covenant, they were only able to catch up technologically due to Halsey creating smart AI like Cortana, who was able to reverse engineer forerunner tech the covenant used to make slip space travel more efficient and shielding better, etc

before that humanity was getting completely annihilated outside the ground missions Spartans went on, because even though the covenant couldn't use forerunner tech to max potential, it was still light years beyond human tech.

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Yeah, but this is what's bugging me:

1. If the prophets had access to forerunner tech for thousands of years, why are they also stupid as shit? They literally were worshipping super weapons and about to activate one had MC not stopped them. How can you be technologically advanced but yet also not understand the technology you are constantly improving upon? It's like Warhammer 40K Imperium except even dumber because the Imperium (at least technically) can't build anything new, but merely maybe repair what already exists because they don't understand actual science or technology. And I find even that kinda dumb, how can you repair something you fundamentally do not understand?

2. I can understand that the subject races of the prophets are bred, but from what? Where are the females?

 

[Zeta Ori]

I think the easiest way to figure out what the Endless are would be to start at them being capable of surviving a Halo ring being fired and going from there.

Which going by what happens when a Halo ring is fired, would imply they are either capable of some sort of shape shifting that allowed them to take forms uneffected by what the Halo ring targets (I'm thinking like Prey style mimics), they could potentially be a non organic species (Mass Effect Harbinger style), or they are indeed capable of some sort of time manipulation. Maybe not full on time travel, but that ending scene with chief showing up 3 days later isn't just for show, I know that much.

Then there's the idea that they are worse than the flood. That's…..a strong statement to make given what the flood are capable of.

My personal interpretation is that originally the endless were not a violent species, and were treated this way by the forerunners because of their potential to one day be a threat. The anger of the harbinger, the weapon talking about that final area being a place of judgement and imprisonment, all seems to add up to painting the forerunners as being quite wrong for their actions, and several of Harbingers words (especially during the end fight) imply that they would not be this way at all if it wasn't for what the forerunners did to them. Hell, harbinger straight up says when they first interact with the chief they aren't even really enemies (although that doesn't last long of course).

Edit: Could even be that the forerunners realized after discovering the endless that they were wrong about humanity being the chosen ones and rather than accept that, they flat out decided to imprison an entire species for their own miscalculation, and used some type of inquisition style court system to dismantle a technological or biological superior species that wasn't prepared for such violent aggression towards them.

Last, I think I see what they might be going for. The shattered remains of the UNSC, Ex-Covenant, and banished forces not loyal to Atriox's endgame banding together to deal with an enemy capable and fully interested in wiping out everything else in the universe, rightfully (to a degree) fueled by the forerunners decisions to not only imprison them, but alter the universe in such a profound way that they can't help but see a reflection of their captors in every aspect of the current reality in Halo Infinite. And Atriox, with his entire planet decimated, doesn't give a shit about anything more than destruction at this point and has no qualms about any of that.

To be honest, I don't care if all this is wildly off base, I'm just happy to be excited enough about Halo's future to have these types of thoughts again!

 

[Nooblet]

unsc logs show the weapon wasn't deployed when the infinity got attacked. She was deployed soon after evacuation. Banished had to be on zeta halo for a long time by then already mopping up the UNSC forces that were already there (mostly scientists, some military).

Click to shrink...

Wasn't Chief the one who was to deploy The Weapon?

And if Banished were already there then how were they able to fight Cortana's Guardians? Even if they had locked her out they'd still have to be present there first and fight the Guardians before being able to do so. And I don't see how they can fight off the Guardians.

 

[Gravemind IV]

can't believe how many of the cutscenes are just spooky brute hologram or Weapon talking

Click to shrink...

it's all over the place. best read I have is the UNSC shows up to zeta halo and gets their shit rocked immediately by the banished. Lasky then deploys the weapon, atriox works chiefs ribs out then spaces him, and some time after that weapon locks down Cortana and atriox captures the latter, who then nukes zeta halo in atonement to keep it from being used by the banished.

Cortana probably saw the infinity get bodied which is partly why the weapon caught her unaware afterward.

Click to shrink...

This one seems the most plausible. But wasn't the Chief the one to deploy the weapon? She greets him with "Where have you been? It's been 6 months!". If the weapon being deployed is at the same time as Chief getting stomped, then that line of dialogue would make no sense. Chief also (despite acting dumb in the first half) tells us what unfolded.

Kinda lost on all of this haha.

I tweeted John as to why he didn't reprise Atriox, will probably not hear anything about it. But let's all agree he sounded so much better in HW2:



"I told you NOT to go inside"
Squashes infection form
"For good reason"

So much better.

 

[Nooblet]

Yeah, but this is what's bugging me:

1. If the prophets had access to forerunner tech for thousands of years, why are they also stupid as shit? They literally were worshipping super weapons and about to activate one had MC not stopped them. How can you be technologically advanced but yet also not understand the technology you are constantly improving upon? It's like Warhammer 40K Imperium except even dumber because the Imperium (at least technically) can't build anything new, but merely maybe repair what already exists because they don't understand actual science or technology. And I find even that kinda dumb, how can you repair something you fundamentally do not understand?

2. I can understand that the subject races of the prophets are bred, but from what? Where are the females?

Click to shrink...

Same way some Mechanics can fix a supercar but can't build a brand new one. Basically because they aren't Engineers.

Or how a computer technician can fix a computer's hardware as well as software without knowing anything about how CPUs/GPUs are made or how an operating system or program is coded.

 

[Gunny T Highway]

I think the easiest way to figure out what the Endless are would be to start at them being capable of surviving a Halo ring being fired and going from there.

Which going by what happens when a Halo ring is fired, would imply they are either capable of some sort of shape shifting that allowed them to take forms uneffected by what the Halo ring targets (I'm thinking like Prey style mimics), they could potentially be a non organic species (Mass Effect Harbinger style), or they are indeed capable of some sort of time manipulation. Maybe not full on time travel, but that ending scene with chief showing up 3 days later isn't just for show, I know that much.

Then there's the idea that they are worse than the flood. That's…..a strong statement to make given what the flood are capable of.

My personal interpretation is that originally the endless were not a violent species, and were treated this way by the forerunners because of their potential to one day be a threat. The anger of the harbinger, the weapon talking about that final area being a place of judgement and imprisonment, all seems to add up to painting the forerunners as being quite wrong for their actions, and several of Harbingers words (especially during the end fight) imply that they would not be this way at all if it wasn't for what the forerunners did to them. Hell, harbinger straight up says when they first interact with the chief they aren't even really enemies (although that doesn't last long of course).

Edit: Could even be that the forerunners realized after discovering the endless that they were wrong about humanity being the chosen ones and rather than accept that, they flat out decided to imprison an entire species for their own miscalculation, and used some type of inquisition style court system to dismantle a technological or biological superior species that wasn't prepared for such violent aggression towards them.

Last, I think I see what they might be going for. The shattered remains of the UNSC, Ex-Covenant, and banished forces not loyal to Atriox's endgame banding together to deal with an enemy capable and fully interested in wiping out everything else in the universe, rightfully (to a degree) fueled by the forerunners decisions to not only imprison them, but alter the universe in such a profound way that they can't help but see a reflection of their captors in every aspect of the current reality in Halo Infinite. And Atriox, with his entire planet decimated, doesn't give a shit about anything more than destruction at this point and has no qualms about any of that.

To be honest, I don't care if all this is wildly off base, I'm just happy to be excited enough about Halo's future to have these types of thoughts again!

Click to shrink...

I like your interpretation of who the Endless are, it is almost in line with how I believe they are as well. We have known for quite some time that the Forerunners are assholes and their decision's have directly as well as indirectly led to the conflicts we have been playing through in the Halo games.

 

[Milk]

Hell, unless this is covered in books I don't even know how Covenant reproduce. I don't think I've ever seen a female Brute or Elite.

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A female elite is who welcomes and guides you when you reach Sanghelios as Osiris in Halo 5. Vale even makes an entire comment about how Arbiter has females in his ranks.

 

[Zeta Ori]

I like your interpretation of who the Endless are, it is almost in line with how I believe they are as well. We have known for quite some time that the Forerunners are assholes and their decision's have directly as well as indirectly led to the conflicts we have been playing through in the Halo games.

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Yeah, from the books to the games now, the forerunners have caused far more damage than they ever tried to fix with the Halo rings. Infinite has solidified that and hopefully is the start of bringing their "crimes" to the front of the story instead of the background.

Also on a completely separate tangent:

I don't how many people have played with the dialogue skull on, but between some dialogue that occurs during a certain boss fight and funnily enough, the mega blocks leaks, Locke is confirmed to NOT be dead.

Hyperious brags about beating his ass but letting him live to demonstrate how weak the Spartans are, took his helmet as a trophy from their fight. Mega blocks has a set showing an unarmored Locke "as he appears in Halo Infinite". Literally using pieced together Spartan armor with no helmet or chest piece 👀

 

[Trey]

Yeah, but this is what's bugging me:

1. If the prophets had access to forerunner tech for thousands of years, why are they also stupid as shit? They literally were worshipping super weapons and about to activate one had MC not stopped them. How can you be technologically advanced but yet also not understand the technology you are constantly improving upon? It's like Warhammer 40K Imperium except even dumber because the Imperium (at least technically) can't build anything new, but merely maybe repair what already exists because they don't understand actual science or technology. And I find even that kinda dumb, how can you repair something you fundamentally do not understand?

2. I can understand that the subject races of the prophets are bred, but from what? Where are the females?

Click to shrink...

because the covenant is built on religious zealotry of the forerunners - they literally worship them as gods. Prophets more than most because they have a bunch of forerunner remains on their planet after the forerunners reverted their people and indexed them. Ancient prophets actually rebelled against the forerunner empire and got mud stomped and literally turned into primitives, so the prophet historical relationship and subservience to forerunners is pretty total.

the three holy prophets mercy, truth, and regret actually know the truth about what Halo does, and that humanity are the reclaimers of the mantle designated by the forerunners, so they push the great journey lie and waged existential holy war against humanity as a way to consolidate power for themselves.

even humanity doesn't know what the fuck they're doing with forerunner tech, and they're literally genetically coded by the forerunners to use that shit in a way no other race is. So it's less that the prophets or covenant/banished are stupid and more the forerunners are a tier 1 civilization, and no society in current Halo canon is anywhere close to their level of advancement.

 

[BossAttack]

Same way some Mechanics can fix a supercar but can't build a brand new one. Basically because they aren't Engineers.

Or how a computer technician can fix a computer's hardware as well as software without knowing anything about how CPUs/GPUs are made or how an operating system or program is coded.

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Yes, but both of those individuals understand the basic tenets of the entire system they're working on. A mechanic probably can't build an entire supercar by themselves, but they'd generally understand how one is built and all its working components. The same goes for a computer technician. It's like understand the process behind nuclear power such that you can build nuclear powered submarines but also not knowing what a nuclear bomb is. How does that work?

At the end of the day, these people understand the scientific method and the Covenant apparently are constantly improving their technology. So, how can they be equally smart and dumb as all hell?

because the covenant is built on religious zealotry of the forerunners - they literally worship them as gods. Prophets more than most because they have a bunch of forerunner remains on their planet after the forerunners reverted their people and indexed them. Ancient prophets actually rebelled against the forerunner empire and got mud stomped and literally turned into primitives, so the prophet historical relationship and subservience to forerunners is pretty total.

the three holy prophets mercy, truth, and regret actually know the truth about what Halo does, and that humanity are the reclaimers of the mantle designated by the forerunners, so they push the great journey lie and waged existential holy war against humanity as a way to consolidate power for themselves.

even humanity doesn't know what the fuck they're doing with forerunner tech, and they're literally genetically coded by the forerunners to use that shit in a way no other race is. So it's less that the prophets or covenant/banished are stupid and more the forerunners are a tier 1 civilization, and no society in current Halo canon is anywhere close to their level of advancement.

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Okay, it's been a minute since I replayed the trilogy. But, if the three big prophets know the truth then why were they about to activate the Halo relays and wipe out themselves?

 

[Gunny T Highway]

Yeah, from the books to the games now, the forerunners have caused far more damage than they ever tried to fix with the Halo rings. Infinite has solidified that and hopefully is the start of bringing their "crimes" to the front of the story instead of the background.

Also on a completely separate tangent:

I don't how many people have played with the dialogue skull on, but between some dialogue that occurs during a certain boss fight and funnily enough, the mega blocks leaks, Locke is confirmed to NOT be dead.

Click to shrink...

Yeah I understand some of the stuff they had to do because of literally how much of a threat the flood actually posed, but some of their decisions prior to the flood really being a thing make them a terrible species.

About Locke, he is probably still alive and that one grunt dialogue people point out to is exactly what that tower is supposed to do and that is spew out propaganda. Propaganda are usually built on lies.

 

[mrqs]

Yeah, it's pretty bad. They were clearly aiming for something for a long time and coudn't course-correct it at time for release.

The structure of the game is pretty solid, amazing gameplay, and even though I don't liked The Pilot that much (neither The Weapon actually), they can surely build something with theses tools for a kickass storytelling in the future.

My hope is a huge expension every year, or maybe smaller ones every 6 months.

It does feel incredibly flat and repetitive-looking for a 6 year project. Hella fun tho.

 

[Stopdoor]

I never played Halo Wars 2 so I don't know how the banished got their power. But I find it odd that they were able to take down Infinity in like 4 minutes. I don't buy it.

I get that Cortana was trapped and she couldn't use the Guardians but if Chief trapped her and went back up, and it was then that Atriox ambushed. Then it doesn't make sense how he got down after that and still found Cortana alive there. Additionally the way it's presented makes it seem like Banished got there first. In which case Cortana wouldn't have been trapped and she could still use the Guardians.

I am sure I'm missing something but the opening sequence of events is simply done very very poorly.

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Halo Wars 2 does set them up as super formidable, that apparently the Covenant couldn't take them down at the height of their power. One tangible thing they do seem to have over the Covenant is because they don't have the religious dogma behind them, they're not against using human weapons and really learning their technology, which I thought was nicely emphasized in the House of Reckoning mission with the dioramas. It's easy to imagine the Covenant had a weakness to disregarding human capabilities entirely.

 

[Trey]

At the end of the day, these people understand the scientific method and the Covenant apparently are constantly improving their technology. So, how can they be equally smart and dumb as all hell?



Okay, it's been a minute since I replayed the trilogy. But, if the three big prophets know the truth then why were they about to activate the Halo relays and wipe out themselves?

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have to keep in mind that every race except humanity is hard locked out of forerunner tech. They can use it to a point but its full capabilities, including how it works, is literally genetically blocked at a fundamental level from all nonhumans/nonforerunners. There's only so much iteration you can do to technology you can't fully access.

this information isn't in the trilogy directly (some in the Halo 3 terminals), but from the book Contact Harvest. The 3 holy prophets took leadership of the covenant due to the war they raged against humanity, using the great journey as the precondition for their rule. And truth was the more…politically savvy among them, which is why he becomes the singular prophet in 3. It's basically all a zealously fueled power grab.

mendicant bias tells the high prophets humanity are the chosen ones and the halos are a weapon, you think some power hungry zealots are going to have their entire world ideology shattered and just take it in stride?

 

[BossAttack]

have to keep in mind that every race except humanity is hard locked out of forerunner tech. They can use it to a point but its full capabilities, including how it works, is literally genetically blocked at a fundamental level from all nonhumans/nonforerunners. There's only so much iteration you can do to technology you can't fully access.

this information isn't in the trilogy directly (some in the Halo 3 terminals), but from the book Contact Harvest. The 3 holy prophets took leadership of the covenant due to the war they raged against humanity, using the great journey as the precondition for their rule. And truth was the more…politically savvy among them, which is why he becomes the singular prophet in 3. It's basically all a zealously fueled power grab.

mendicant bias tells the high prophets humanity are the chosen ones and the halos are a weapon, you think some power hungry zealots are going to have their entire world ideology shattered and just take it in stride?

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Yeah, see this is what I still can't grasp because not having full access to technology doesn't mean you can't understand it. It's like someone giving someone else a computer that is locked with a password. This person has never seen a computer, but overtime they are able to work out all its intricate components and build a new computer from scratch. Regardless of whether they are able to unlock the original computer, they understand how a computer works, how to build a functioning one, and through the scientific method understand how to continually improve upon a computer.

Yet, Covenant and Prophets are able to somehow understand Forerunner Tech, build upon it, improve upon it, but also adhere to religious doctrine that precludes them from understanding the basic tenets of the technology that they use. Basic curiosity would demand research into these areas otherwise they would never be able to improve on technology. You'd think some random Covenant Engineer would do, "hey, it's weird how this technology I study adheres to certain laws oh physics almost like they aren't holy objects but tools we could replicate ourselves!"

This is also why I liked what Mass Effect did with the Krogans where they were "uplifted" by a more advanced species, literally taught more advanced science and engineering. Because otherwise there was no way the Krogans would've learned themselves (at least not in any reasonable timeframe) due to how violent they had been.

It's just weird how Covenant technology still outclasses humanity despite the fact that humanity doesn't worship literal doomsday devices and can research how shit works without running into problems with the ecclesiarch.

 

[Trey]

it's not their religious doctrine keeping them from understanding forerunner tech, it's the forerunner tech keeping them from understanding forerunner tech. It's basically impossible for a nonhuman race to reverse engineer forerunner tech, and even the human race has trouble because it's still technology that's far beyond their current understanding.

that's why the covenant seeks to extinguish all of humanity, who became a space faring civilization on their own without forerunner tech (though some geas and favorable genetic seeding to ensure they'll develop sufficiently to be able to accept the mantle in a few hundred thousand years). And the forerunner tech stomps everything and everyone up to now because the forerunners were that far ahead of everybody after the precursors left the Milky Way and the forerunners devolved ancient humanity.

 

[Gravemind IV]

But what will the Endless' motivation be to be hostile towards humanity? The Harbinger wasn't directly hostile at first: "I am not your enemy.". The Endless should only have beef with the Forerunners but they are gone. They also weren't described as inherently hostile.

This is going to be some kind of sins of the father bullshit, isn't it?

 

[DemonCarnotaur]

But what will the Endless' motivation be to be hostile towards humanity? The Harbinger wasn't directly hostile at first: "I am not your enemy.". The Endless should only have beef with the Forerunners but they are gone. They also weren't described as inherently hostile.

This is going to be some kind of sins of the father bullshit, isn't it?

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My assumption is because the Harbringer allied herself with the Banished, and then humanity directly tried to stop her via MC, they'll assume humans are their enemy.

I do hope we can get a new race that comes in with a nuanced POV, not looking to eradicate humans, but certain subsets skirmishing with us and posing a threat until things level out. Or even some of their kind being allies.

Hell, I'd love to see some friendly Covie species come into play as well, via FOBs and whatnot.

 

[Tawpgun]

I've never understood how the Covenant are so technologically superior to humans despite them also being dumb as shit and worshipping Forerunner technology to the point they refuse to accept what it does.

Hell, unless this is covered in books I don't even know how Covenant reproduce. I don't think I've ever seen a female Brute or Elite.

Click to shrink...

So I could be remembering this wrong, or confusing some other franchise.

But my understanding is

1. Prophets had access to forerunner tech so early on they sort of skipped a lot of the iterative tech that humanity had. There's no need to really dive deep into the tech when you worship it as magic. They even had the engineer race to help them too.

2. They were able to sort of brute force everything militarily so didn't have much "tactical" knowledge. I recall something the books mentioned was that the only reason covenant was winning engagements was because of straight up better tech. They made some point that covenant military tactics were not great and humans would always outsmart them.

Think of it like someone who had to learn how to do a bunch of complex math and coding through years of schooling vs someone who got access to google and github. They basically "cheated" technological advancement.

 

[BossAttack]

So I could be remembering this wrong, or confusing some other franchise.

But my understanding is

1. Prophets had access to forerunner tech so early on they sort of skipped a lot of the iterative tech that humanity had. There's no need to really dive deep into the tech when you worship it as magic. They even had the engineer race to help them too.

2. They were able to sort of brute force everything militarily so didn't have much "tactical" knowledge. I recall something the books mentioned was that the only reason covenant was winning engagements was because of straight up better tech. They made some point that covenant military tactics were not great and humans would always outsmart them.

Think of it like someone who had to learn how to do a bunch of complex math and coding through years of schooling vs someone who got access to google and github. They basically "cheated" technological advancement.

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But it still makes no sense because you use Google and GitHub to understand shit, it's not a cheatcode to learn a foreign concept. You still have to put in the work to understand whatever you're looking into. Like, no one today has to rediscover math or algebra, it's already been done but you do have to learn it if you want to advance on these concepts.

So, even if they never discovered Algebra or advanced Programming on their own, they'd still have to learn it after having the knowledge open to them. Thus, it makes no sense for them to worship something as magic which they should understand.

 

[Bryo4321]

But it still makes no sense because you use Google and GitHub to understand shit, it's not a cheatcode to learn a foreign concept. You still have to put in the work to understand whatever you're looking into. Like, no one today has to rediscover math or algebra, it's already been done but you do have to learn it if you want to advance on these concepts.

So, even if they never discovered Algebra or advanced Programming on their own, they'd still have to learn it after having the knowledge open to them. Thus, it makes no sense for them to worship something as magic which they should understand.

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They are religious zealots wielding an ancient technology they don't fully understand, on a divine "path" to fulfill prophecy. They aren't really a scientific culture, they are a religious crusader culture. Just because you can wield something doesn't mean you will fully understand it, especially if understanding could negatively impact the prophets grip on their covenant. The covenant falls apart when the truth of what lighting the rings does is revealed.
Names like "the covenant" and "the flood" are not a coincidence, and I doubt bungie themselves even cared about these micro details when writing the games originally.

 

[Trey]

also forerunner tech is literally space magic, trying to reverse engineer it isn't like googling how to forward ports on your router.

Prophet race coming up from primal infancy on forerunner tech is like if humanity was given the internet and nukes back in the prehistoric era instead of all of human history iteratively leading to their creation.

 

[BossAttack]

They are religious zealots wielding an ancient technology they don't fully understand, on a divine "path" to fulfill prophecy. They aren't really a scientific culture, they are a religious crusader culture. Just because you can wield something doesn't mean you will fully understand it, especially if understanding could negatively impact the prophets grip on their covenant. The covenant falls apart when the truth of what lighting the rings does is revealed.
Names like "the covenant" and "the flood" are not a coincidence, and I doubt bungie themselves even cared about these micro details when writing the games originally.

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Listen, I understand this concept in theory. In practice it just doesn't make sense. The Covenant are just wielding swords, they making super advanced starships, space stations, and weapons using Forerunner Technology. This is not something you can do without fundamentally understanding the technology behind it. You cannot just accidentally create a nuclear powered engine without understanding nuclear physics, especially when you are continually improving upon and making even better nuclear engines. You just can't.

also forerunner tech is literally space magic, trying to reverse engineer it isn't like googling how to forward ports on your router.

Prophet race coming up from primal infancy on forerunner tech is like if humanity was given the internet and nukes back in the prehistoric era instead of all of human history iteratively leading to their creation.

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Nothing is Space Magic if it can be understood. And if ancient humanity were granted the internet they could look up how all the shit works.

 

[effingvic]

This is definitely not what happened. Cortana went to the ring first then everyone else followed.

I'll admit that it doesn't make much sense that Chief deployed Weapon, then... went back to Infinity? Then the Banished attacked? Why would Chief not deploy Weapon and retrieve Cortana all in one trip?

I don't know, but this muddy version is still way better than them baiting Cortana to an entire Halo ring.

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I think thats whats implied though. They set a trap and baited her. But at the same time Cortana knew about the Endless and seemed like she went to Zeta specifically for them. Plus Cortana would have known when MC landed in the Halo to deploy the Weapon. Shes cocky but not enough to just let them walk around without any resistence.

I get what they want to communicate overall which is Cortana fell for a trap > UNSC got devastated before she could be retrieved > Cortana blew up the ring to prevent the Banished from getting it. But the details of how it all started is just unnecessarily obtuse. Like theres no reason there couldnt have been a 2 sentence info dump to just summarize the details after theyve been drip fed throughout the game.

I tweeted John as to why he didn't reprise Atriox, will probably not hear anything about it. But let's all agree he sounded so much better in HW2:



"I told you NOT to go inside"
Squashes infection form
"For good reason"

So much better.

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I liked his design in Halo Wars 2 better as well.

Man, the cutscenes in the Halo Wars game were so good. Wish we had more of them in Infinite. The opening cinematic didn't feel as polished as these. Even Halo 5 had some really good ones.

 

[Tawpgun]

Listen, I understand this concept in theory. In practice it just doesn't make sense. The Covenant are just wielding swords, they making super advanced starships, space stations, and weapons using Forerunner Technology. This is not something you can do without fundamentally understanding the technology behind it. You cannot just accidentally create a nuclear powered engine without understanding nuclear physics, especially when you are continually improving upon and making even better nuclear engines. You just can't.



Nothing is Space Magic if it can be understood. And if ancient humanity were granted the internet they could look up how all the shit works.

Click to shrink...

It's worth noting a lot of modern covenant stuff is based off a lie.

Prophets wanted to maintain power. They knew humans were a threat. So instead of assimilating them they decreed them a heresy and needed them wiped out.

The prophets are the top of the food chain, every other race is subserviant to them. The prophets, at least the higher up leadership, knew the true purpose of Halo. But they didn't want to give up the power. The other races just follow the religion.

But, understanding how to manipulate technology and understanding the finer points of it are two different things.

 

[Septy]

Spoiler: I liked the story, how it was told, and that it was self-contained and personal but with big stakes. Very satisfied.

Huh. Guess this campaign was more confusing to people than I experienced. I loved it! And I loved the way they doled out information slowly and without much exposition. I don't think a preview video or catch-up explanation would have really explained much without ruining the pacing of the reveals, so I prefer the way they did it. THAT SAID, they probably didn't convey the idea that it was *TOTALLY OK* to not know anything going in.

I'm seeing people on this page say things like "I don't want to have to read all the books and play all the games to know what happened before this game!!!" And guess what.. you don't! Because none of that info is in those mediums lol. What Cortana's done since Halo 5 and why the Banished are on the ring and why the Banished are pissed, desperate, and trying to kill humanity are all explained in the game as a course of the story (you can't miss it), with additional context from audio logs - AND NOWHERE ELSE.

I also really liked that this was a very personal story centered around a scared "pilot", a naive AI, and a ring full of desperate but determined marines. An approachable story with a self-contained beginning-middle-end, but with big theoretical stakes. And they've set the stage to introduce Lasky and Blue Team and Osiris and Spirit of Fire and Offensive Bias and the Flood and the Arbiter - pretty much ANY character they want to in further story beats.

I do understand people being disappointed, or cheated by Cortana's final goodbye happening in flashback, and stuff like that.. but.. eh. Didn't bother me.

The ONLY thing that really gives me pause is the Weapon possibly taking Cortana's name. That feels like a misstep to me..

Spoiler: What should the weapon's name be? Joyeuse (or joy). To complete the Cortana, Durandal, Joyeuse trifecta

Break free from Cortana and her legacy. Let her lie in her memory, for better or worse, and let the weapon be her own AI. That was what was delightful about the character - yes, Cortana-like, but very much not. It would be a shame and potentially feel like a soft retcon to just have things go back to the way things were.. (Not that the name necessarily means that).

IMO, the right name should play on the origins of the name Cortana: the Sword Cortana. Or Curtana.. whatever, from the French poem the Song of Roland about Charlamagne. Cortana is one of the 3 swords mentioned as being made "of the same steel and temper" and belonged to one of Charlamagne's lieutenants. Cortana is dubbed the "Sword of Mercy", thus named for having one dull edge and one sharp one - AKA "the broken blade". IRL today, it's a British crown jewel and is used in ceremonies. ANYWAY. What were the names of the other 2 swords? Durandal, Roland's sword (he was Charlamagne nephew and another trusted paladin). Durandal is ALSO the name of the rampant main AI antagonist of Bungie's Marathon trilogy.

And Joyeuse (or 'joyful') was Charlamagne's sword.

SO.... it probably won't happen haha, but I think naming the weapon Joyeuse or maybe Joy would complete the AI trifecta and be a nice nod and potential lore drop moment about Cortana's choice of her own name. Though Cortana was dulled in some sense, she was plenty sharp - and broken - enough to cause more pain than anyone could ever have imagined. And honestly, the Weapon definitely seems happier than Cortana, no? XD

Ok nerd out done..
JK! Quote wall time.

Spoiler: Stupidly long Quote wall incoming.. yay.

Yea I think this is a great post, agree with most of what you said. Re: Cortana, it's not that Cortana is redeemed suddenly at the end (though, I can totally see why people feel like it all got wrapped up in too tidy and easy of a bow). Rather, Cortana basically said "Oh shit, I guess I'm actually irredeemable, huh? Well, this is how I want to go out. Sorry John, it wasn't your fault." Maybe how she gets there isn't imbued with as much drama and soul searching as you'd want in a narrative experience (remember, this is a game), but it's as much an admission of defeat and giving up as it is anything close to a redemption arc.


Cortana was on Zeta because she knew there were powerful secrets there. Presumably, she thought herself the inheritor to the forerunner's legacy after taking over the freaking guardians, so maybe she felt entitled to whatever Zeta Halo may have offered. She wasn't making a deal with Atriox as much as offering him an ultimatum - stop defying her or face the consequences. WAS NOT PREPARED for her to blow up Doisac. Insane. Loved that they showed that, personally.

So, the timeline (as I understand it) is that after that, the weapon trapped Cortana, as per the plan. This is why Atriox keeps taunting her that she is undone by her makers. But instead of John showing up to pick her up in her trapped state, Atriox surprises her and now has her at his mercy. IT SEEMS like he's just lucky? But, not entirely sure. He's proven crafty and possessed of more knowledge than he should (obviously). Cortana didn't want to leave them the ring, AND the secrets she found (which, presumably, are the Endless. She probably thought they were too scary - maybe even for her to handle and definitely for the Banished).





As for Atriox and Escharum, Escharum recruited and mentored Atriox in the first place. He mentions that Atriox is his best recruit, but that Atriox never went to him for advice after getting his help with breaking free from the Covenant in the first place. After that, Atriox was just such a good leader that even Escharum was happy to just follow him.

IMO The Banished and the Harbinger do not have the same goal. The Harbinger just misled them. The Banished want to get off the damned ring and back to somewhere better. The Harbinger has promised to help them in some way. I mean.. it'd be weird if the Banished didn't have any slipspace vessels AT ALL? But.. who knows. Maybe there is more, but remember, AFAWK, Escharum and Harbinger are only trying to repair THE AUDITORIUM - not necessarily the whole ring. No one in this game seems to REALLY be trying to fix the ring per se. It IS possible that the banished may have included that in their calculations to say "hey, nuclear supremacy - hell of a bargaining chip if we hold a gun to the galaxy's head." But we don't necessarily hear a whole lot of that. Rather, it is Escharum's pride that leads him to want to WIN on the ring, with help and planning from the Harbinger if need be. There's a bit of institutional inertia to the whole thing IMO too.

That said, ATRIOX - as an entity distinct from the rest of the banished - may well be more aligned with the Harbinger. We only know that he probably carried on freeing the Endless after surviving Cortana's attack, in partnership with the Harbinger and seemingly (Escharum never betrays belief to the otherwise, even with the Harbinger) without the Banished's knowledge. Why? Who know! To be revealed in DLC lol.



I don't think Harbinger is an endless. Rather, she is just a harbinger of their return. Perhaps someone from a lower or other species simply tasked with helping to bring them back. That said, totally possible that she is just a forward/advanced party of the Endless. She uses lots of different pronouns in this game and it's a little hard to keep track to what or whom she is referring to sometimes.

The skimmers are definitely NOT banished and are instead allied with the Harbinger. You can find Banished logs (I think it's the "hollowed eyes" one) that talk about how unsettled the Banished are by these new creatures, and how many of the rank and file neither trust them nor their leader (the Harbinger).


Agreed yo.


That's exactly her character. And she only realizes it at the end. That's why she wants them to be better for her mistakes. Because she ultimately doesn't care all that much about humanity or the brutes or whoever. She cares about being the best and she cares about John. Selfish things that are EXACTLY ALSO true of Halsey. Except Halsey still believes she's doing it all for the sake of humanity and is much harsher on MC lol.

I'm not them, but yea.. I think the arc was handled well. Not perfectly. But well.


The funny thing is.. no.. you don't have to play any of those games or read any of those books, because those answers are not there lol. They specifically set this up so that the new players and the halo nerds would be (almost) equally in the dark about the specifics, the events, and the motivations of the characters involved. Giving you a preview of what happened serves to undermine the delivery of the story - which is that you (us) and the weapon just don't know what happened - and neither the Chief nor the pilot particularly wants to divulge that information for obvious-in-hindsight reasons. The prelude you need is: "we lost" and "the banished control the ring". And that's the prelude you get.

You don't NEED to know what Zeta halo is at the start. You don't NEED to know what the weapon is at the start (you find out in mission 2..). What you need is to feel like the UNSC lost the war and your only priority at the start of the game is *survive*, because that is not guaranteed. It then unfolds from there. I think the failure of 343 here is not in failing to prepare us enough - it is in not forcefully communicating that it is PERFECTLY OK and fully intended for players to not know anything at the start.

(Also, not sure what you're referring to with the human research outpost on the ring? Why is that significant to the story, much less a basic understanding of the start of it?)

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What could have been.

 

[BossAttack]

It's worth noting a lot of modern covenant stuff is based off a lie.

Prophets wanted to maintain power. They knew humans were a threat. So instead of assimilating them they decreed them a heresy and needed them wiped out.

The prophets are the top of the food chain, every other race is subserviant to them. The prophets, at least the higher up leadership, knew the true purpose of Halo. But they didn't want to give up the power. The other races just follow the religion.

But, understanding how to manipulate technology and understanding the finer points of it are two different things.

Click to shrink...

But again:

1. Why would prophets tell idiot races to seek out Halo knowing it would kill all life in galaxy, including them, if activated?

2. Covenant aren't just manipulating technology, they actively improve upon it. I can sorta buy a less advanced race being given something like a computer and them being able to use it, but not build one on their own. I can't understand the Covenant being given a computer, yet also being able to build even better computers, but also no understanding the very concepts that would allow them to build a better computer. That does not compute.

Like, unless they just found a Forerunner facility where they push a button and it prints weapons, starships, and mega space stations, then they really shouldn't have been able to build what they have and also improve on it over the years.

 

[Gravemind IV]

Despondent Pyre mentions an enemy within in one of the Forerunner logs, supposedly those ruined rings predate the Forerunners. But how can Zeta Halo have those ruins that are older than the ring itself? Unless they were moved there or something something time fuckery is at play again.

 

[oriic]

Despondent Pyre mentions an enemy within in one of the Forerunner logs, supposedly those ruined rings predate the Forerunners. But how can Zeta Halo have those ruins that are older than the ring itself? Unless they were moved there or something something time fuckery is at play again.

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The stone rings are mobile, and some were taken to one Banished outpost for study.

 

[JordianKnot]

I'm not super well-versed on Halo lore, but I've been keeping up casually with the campaigns in the series. I thought Cortana was being built up as a villain from 4, 5, and the beginning of Infinite pretty well. But if I'm understanding correctly, by the end (we see a flashback/echo) she has a change of heart and decides to sacrifice/redeem herself?
I don't know how to feel about that. They should have just stuck to their guns and left her as a villain to the bitter end. There's already a new "Cortana" to take her place anyway.
But then again, I dunno if diehard fans of the series were upset at Cortana's heel turn and 343 felt it was necessary to have a redemption arc.
Either way, had a great time with it!

Edit: Also what happened to Cortana's robot army from 5? (Sorry like I said I'm a casual fan I don't remember their name haha, was it Forerunners?)

 

[cyrribrae]

Yeah, from the books to the games now, the forerunners have caused far more damage than they ever tried to fix with the Halo rings. Infinite has solidified that and hopefully is the start of bringing their "crimes" to the front of the story instead of the background.

Also on a completely separate tangent:

I don't how many people have played with the dialogue skull on, but between some dialogue that occurs during a certain boss fight and funnily enough, the mega blocks leaks, Locke is confirmed to NOT be dead.

Hyperious brags about beating his ass but letting him live to demonstrate how weak the Spartans are, took his helmet as a trophy from their fight. Mega blocks has a set showing an unarmored Locke "as he appears in Halo Infinite". Literally using pieced together Spartan armor with no helmet or chest piece 👀

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Oo interesting! That sounds about right. Wonder why they wouldn't kill him specifically, though. No problem killing everyone else. Just hoping for more from Vale. She always seemed like she could be a really interesting character, but just.. wasn't. Xeno-anthropologist yo!

I think thats whats implied though. They set a trap and baited her. But at the same time Cortana knew about the Endless and seemed like she went to Zeta specifically for them. Plus Cortana would have known when MC landed in the Halo to deploy the Weapon. Shes cocky but not enough to just let them walk around without any resistence.

I get what they want to communicate overall which is Cortana fell for a trap > UNSC got devastated before she could be retrieved > Cortana blew up the ring to prevent the Banished from getting it. But the details of how it all started is just unnecessarily obtuse. Like theres no reason there couldnt have been a 2 sentence info dump to just summarize the details after theyve been drip fed throughout the game.

Click to shrink...

You're overcomplicating the dilemma here. There is a legitimate question of "how did the weapon get deployed?" Clearly not chief, maybe Lasky or one of the Spartan teams. But also, that detail makes no difference to the story or how we understand it one way or the other. That's not to say there's not a possibility for there to be some unreliable narrator or more secrets hiding in the details, but it doesn't matter for this now.

I'm not super well-versed on Halo lore, but I've been keeping up casually with the campaigns in the series. I thought Cortana was being built up as a villain from 4, 5, and the beginning of Infinite pretty well. But if I'm understanding correctly, by the end (we see a flashback/echo) she has a change of heart and decides to sacrifice/redeem herself?

I don't know how to feel about that. They should have just stuck to their guns and left her as a villain to the bitter end. There's already a new "Cortana" to take her place anyway.

But then again, I dunno if diehard fans of the series were upset at Cortana's heel turn and 343 felt it was necessary to have a redemption arc.

Either way, had a great time with it!



Edit: Also what happened to Cortana's robot army from 5? (Sorry like I said I'm a casual fan I don't remember their name haha, was it Forerunners?)

Click to shrink...

Cortana's army definitely causes problems, as they show in the game. But when she is locked down by the weapon, she can't access them very well (beyond crashing one into the ring, perhaps?). I don't really see it as a redemption though. She doesn't really have a change of heart at all. She's still just as arrogant, she's still obsessed, she just realizes she made mistakes that screwed up her plan and she can no longer believe that she's in control nor that she can do the best for John, which is kinda how she justifies all of it to herself.

IMO, she realizes she's IRREDEEMABLE and regrets that in all of her striving, she was neither successful nor a good friend to John. And she never will be, even if she stays alive. And that causes her grief - but also gives her determination to end things on her terms (and to [unsuccessfully] kill Atriox along the way).

In some ways, she takes the coward's way out of her relationship too. Instead of confronting MC one final time, she gets the last word and doesn't ever have to reckon with her sins or the hurt she's caused, really.

Again IMO (and I totally respect people disagreeing), this was not a good end for Cortana but any means. It wasn't out a positive outcome for chief either. It's only really A GOOD "end" for the weapon.

 

[rou021]

But again:

1. Why would prophets tell idiot races to seek out Halo knowing it would kill all life in galaxy, including them, if activated?

2. Covenant aren't just manipulating technology, they actively improve upon it. I can sorta buy a less advanced race being given something like a computer and them being able to use it, but not build one on their own. I can't understand the Covenant being given a computer, yet also being able to build even better computers, but also no understanding the very concepts that would allow them to build a better computer. That does not compute.

Like, unless they just found a Forerunner facility where they push a button and it prints weapons, starships, and mega space stations, then they really shouldn't have been able to build what they have and also improve on it over the years.

Click to shrink...

There's a species in the Covenant called Engineers (aka Huragok) that do nothing but maintain their technology. They were originally created by the Forerunners specifically to repair and maintain both technology and living organisms, though they tend to technology most of the time. They have an ability to quickly learn how a piece of technology works and can repair it or even modify and improve it. The other species don't delve into the technology much because they don't have to. In fact, the Engineers are so good at what they do that the UNSC also uses them now (some were even aboard the Infinity).

Think of it kind of like IT in an organization. The rank and file employees utilize computers a lot, but most of them probably don't know how they actually work. Anytime a tech problem comes up and needs to be fixed, they just get their IT staff to take care of it. The Engineers are essentially the Covenant's IT department.

 

[BossAttack]

There's a species in the Covenant called Engineers (aka Huragok) that do nothing but maintain their technology. They were originally created by the Forerunners specifically to repair and maintain both technology and living organisms, though they tend to technology most of the time. They have an ability to quickly learn how a piece of technology works and can repair it or even modify and improve it. The other species don't delve into the technology much because they don't have to. In fact, the Engineers are so good at what they do that the UNSC also uses them now (some were even aboard the Infinity).

Think of it kind of like IT in an organization. The rank and file employees utilize computers a lot, but most of them probably don't know how they actually work. Anytime a tech problem comes up and needs to be fixed, they just get their IT staff to take care of it. The Engineers are essentially the Covenant's IT department.

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Ahhhhh, okay. That makes more sense.

 

[effingvic]

You're overcomplicating the dilemma here. There is a legitimate question of "how did the weapon get deployed?" Clearly not chief, maybe Lasky or one of the Spartan teams. But also, that detail makes no difference to the story or how we understand it one way or the other. That's not to say there's not a possibility for there to be some unreliable narrator or more secrets hiding in the details, but it doesn't matter for this now.

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Nah these are pretty important details that just got glossed over. It's bad enough that the Cortana resolution happened off screen and we only saw glimpses in holograms. I expect the game to at least give a direct explanation of what the hell happened.

 

[Mukrab]

Feels like every cutscene was shot in a short time span with how limited they are. It just gets so disappointingly repetitive.

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Also not that i care that much about CGI cutscenes but they are in the game. Why didn't they go with blur again? Just feels weird that Infinite has that much worse CGI cutscenes than Halo 4, 5 and 2 remake

 

[Abrasion Test]

Also not that i care that much about CGI cutscenes but they are in the game. Why didn't they go with blur again? Just feels weird that Infinite has that much worse CGI cutscenes than Halo 4, 5 and 2 remake

Click to shrink...

Was the opening scene not done by Blur? I honestly didn't notice the difference too much.

Personally I liked the way the in-engine cutscenes were shot and acted, they just lacked variety and substance with such a small cast of characters to play with. The Weapon pulling at something we can't see over and over again is not compelling.

 

[Mukrab]

Was the opening scene not done by Blur? I honestly didn't notice the difference too much.

Personally I liked the way the in-engine cutscenes were shot and acted, they just lacked variety and substance with such a small cast of characters to play with. The Weapon pulling at something we can't see over and over again is not compelling.

Click to shrink...

Maybe. That cutscene was significantly better than the other CGI ones though.

 

[Abrasion Test]

Maybe. That cutscene was significantly better than the other CGI ones though.

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Honestly I couldn't tell you if there were other CGI cutscenes in the game. Are there more than the opening?