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Jellycrackers

Member
Oct 25, 2017
582
I think some people get hung up on expectations/hopes when talking about Infinite's story.

I'll agree that despite the attempts to fill in story bits from previous games with Cortana's echoes, it's still not a great jumping in point for completely new players. There's just a lot of things that have happened to lead up to this point.

But I've noticed a lot of people upset that it doesn't account for where X or Y character is, or what happened to the Spirit of Fire, etc. That stuff just really doesn't matter. The story of Infinite is about the fallout of Halo 4 and 5 and how it affects Chief, The Pilot, and The Weapon. That's the core cast, and that's what 343 chose to write this story about. It's okay if you're not into that, but that fact doesn't make the story "ass" or any other hyperbolic statements. Not every story needs to be an encyclopedia of the entire universe and what happened to this or that character. It's just a smaller scale to focus on in this particular entry. I think 343 made that decision because, well, look at how people reacted to Halo 5, which was a big grand galactic adventure with tons of characters.

As for Halo Wars 2, I never played it either, but it doesn't really matter for this story. The Spirit of Fire isn't involved in these events in any way, so I don't think it's a fair expectation to think Infinite should continue that story. There could always be a Halo Wars 3 for that. Sure, The Banished are involved, but their history really doesn't matter much for Infinite's story either. If you played Halo Wars 2, you'll know about their background, but it doesn't matter if you do or don't. They just needed to be a covenant-style opposing force for you to fight through while going through the core cast's personal journeys. Their motivations ARE explained in game, unlike the Didact's in Halo 4. The Banished want control of the ring so they can become more powerful with its technology and buried secrets, and also so they can defeat Cortana, who destroyed the Brute homeworld. This is all slowly fleshed out in the game. It's not necessary to know 100% of this all from the start. Hell, even Chief doesn't know what the Banished are doing there when the game starts.

I think the mystery around the state of things when the game starts is really cool, and it's an intriguing hook to keep exploring and progressing the story once you realize that its drip-feeding you that info via the echoes, audio logs, etc. It feels like some people expected a big opening cutscene explaining the state of things, or for Chief to turn to the camera Thor style and say "You're probably wondering how I got here!" *cut to "18 months ago" title card*. It's just a different style of storytelling, and I, for one, really enjoyed it. I learned everything I needed to know about the story from playing the game. I didn't read Shadows of Reach or play Halo Wars 2, but I was fine. Again though, if I had never consumed any Halo Media in my life, it would be a different story. I still feel it's best to have at least watched a summary on youtube before going into Infinite.

The other complaint I've seen a few times is people saying the writing is bad because Cortana got a "redemption story". I never once thought this was a redemption story. If the game was trying to shove in my face "CORTANA WAS GOOD ALL ALONG!" or like, people were building monuments and memorials to her because she helped stop the Banished, now THAT would be bad writing. In the end, she still essentially committed genocide and was generally a horrible monster. That's how people will remember her. But she used her last moments to do ONE good thing. That's not a redemption story. It's just a moment of clarity and regret, and an opportunity to get some nice warm feelings of positive closure between Cortana and Chief. It's like Darth Vader using his last moments to save his son's life. No, it's not a redemption and he's not looked at as a hero when all is said and done. But it was a satisfying moment for the character's arc and gave us just a the tiniest reason to feel a bittersweet sadness about his death.

Anyway, just wanted to say my piece on these issues. If you aren't into this kind of story, that's fine. I personally thought it worked really well, especially considering the weird state 343 wrote themselves into with Halo 5. I'm ALWAYS one to prefer a more character focused story rather than a universe focused one. I had a fantastic time and was very moved by the narrative themes of forgiveness and trust <3
 

Kibbles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,418
The legendary ending made no sense to me. It said like 37,000 BC or something and then Atriox is there? I don't get it
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,547
So can we expect in the future the biggest war in the Halo history ?

Like Flood war but with the Endless ?
There is no way the games ever match the scale of the Forerunner Flood War.

Which is good, the scale of the Forerunner Flood War is fucking mind bending. We're talking weapons like this. Yes, that's the Ark being ripped apart, but not the Ark seen in the games; it was a larger version destroyed by the Flood using these things.

1200px-HM_Ark_destruction.png
 

Jellycrackers

Member
Oct 25, 2017
582
The legendary ending made no sense to me. It said like 37,000 BC or something and then Atriox is there? I don't get it

The timestamp is only there on Legendary, and the VO is also only there on legendary. It was a weird choice, but since the non-legendary version doesn't have the VO or the Timestamp, it implies that the timestamp is just for the VO, not the scene itself. It appears to be Atriox somewhere else on the ring in present day unleashing the Endless.
 

Couscous

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,089
Twente (The Netherlands)
I think some people get hung up on expectations/hopes when talking about Infinite's story.

I'll agree that despite the attempts to fill in story bits from previous games with Cortana's echoes, it's still not a great jumping in point for completely new players. There's just a lot of things that have happened to lead up to this point.

But I've noticed a lot of people upset that it doesn't account for where X or Y character is, or what happened to the Spirit of Fire, etc. That stuff just really doesn't matter. The story of Infinite is about the fallout of Halo 4 and 5 and how it affects Chief, The Pilot, and The Weapon. That's the core cast, and that's what 343 chose to write this story about. It's okay if you're not into that, but that fact doesn't make the story "ass" or any other hyperbolic statements. Not every story needs to be an encyclopedia of the entire universe and what happened to this or that character. It's just a smaller scale to focus on in this particular entry. I think 343 made that decision because, well, look at how people reacted to Halo 5, which was a big grand galactic adventure with tons of characters.

As for Halo Wars 2, I never played it either, but it doesn't really matter for this story. The Spirit of Fire isn't involved in these events in any way, so I don't think it's a fair expectation to think Infinite should continue that story. There could always be a Halo Wars 3 for that. Sure, The Banished are involved, but their history really doesn't matter much for Infinite's story either. If you played Halo Wars 2, you'll know about their background, but it doesn't matter if you do or don't. They just needed to be a covenant-style opposing force for you to fight through while going through the core cast's personal journeys. Their motivations ARE explained in game, unlike the Didact's in Halo 4. The Banished want control of the ring so they can become more powerful with its technology and buried secrets, and also so they can defeat Cortana, who destroyed the Brute homeworld. This is all slowly fleshed out in the game. It's not necessary to know 100% of this all from the start. Hell, even Chief doesn't know what the Banished are doing there when the game starts.

I think the mystery around the state of things when the game starts is really cool, and it's an intriguing hook to keep exploring and progressing the story once you realize that its drip-feeding you that info via the echoes, audio logs, etc. It feels like some people expected a big opening cutscene explaining the state of things, or for Chief to turn to the camera Thor style and say "You're probably wondering how I got here!" *cut to "18 months ago" title card*. It's just a different style of storytelling, and I, for one, really enjoyed it. I learned everything I needed to know about the story from playing the game. I didn't read Shadows of Reach or play Halo Wars 2, but I was fine. Again though, if I had never consumed any Halo Media in my life, it would be a different story. I still feel it's best to have at least watched a summary on youtube before going into Infinite.

The other complaint I've seen a few times is people saying the writing is bad because Cortana got a "redemption story". I never once thought this was a redemption story. If the game was trying to shove in my face "CORTANA WAS GOOD ALL ALONG!" or like, people were building monuments and memorials to her because she helped stop the Banished, now THAT would be bad writing. In the end, she still essentially committed genocide and was generally a horrible monster. That's how people will remember her. But she used her last moments to do ONE good thing. That's not a redemption story. It's just a moment of clarity and regret, and an opportunity to get some nice warm feelings of positive closure between Cortana and Chief. It's like Darth Vader using his last moments to save his son's life. No, it's not a redemption and he's not looked at as a hero when all is said and done. But it was a satisfying moment for the character's arc and gave us just a the tiniest reason to feel a bittersweet sadness about his death.

Anyway, just wanted to say my piece on these issues. If you aren't into this kind of story, that's fine. I personally thought it worked really well, especially considering the weird state 343 wrote themselves into with Halo 5. I'm ALWAYS one to prefer a more character focused story rather than a universe focused one. I had a fantastic time and was very moved by the narrative themes of forgiveness and trust <3
I can agree with you that Cortana's arc isn't really a redemption arc, but you're still getting flashbacks with and dialogues from Cortana which are supposed to make you feel sympathetic towards her even though she is a genocidal monster. There was literally a line in which she said something like "You made me the happiest I've ever been". This is the character that is responsible for killing a lot of people and Spartans who are special to Chief.

It feels as if the writers couldn't agree on how to handle Cortana and we end up with a weird arc as a result.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,547
The other complaint I've seen a few times is people saying the writing is bad because Cortana got a "redemption story". I never once thought this was a redemption story. If the game was trying to shove in my face "CORTANA WAS GOOD ALL ALONG!" or like, people were building monuments and memorials to her because she helped stop the Banished, now THAT would be bad writing. In the end, she still essentially committed genocide and was generally a horrible monster. That's how people will remember her. But she used her last moments to do ONE good thing. That's not a redemption story. It's just a moment of clarity and regret, and an opportunity to get some nice warm feelings of positive closure between Cortana and Chief. It's like Darth Vader using his last moments to save his son's life. No, it's not a redemption and he's not looked at as a hero when all is said and done. But it was a satisfying moment for the character's arc and gave us just a the tiniest reason to feel a bittersweet sadness about his death.
I fucking hate talk of "redemption" in media online because 90% of it is people bitching that being shown in any sympathetic light whatsoever means redemption.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,622
It was always a dumb decision to make Cortana evil, more so now that we have clues that it wasn't a "fragment" of Cortana but actual Cortana.

The other thing being Rampancy was said to be basically AIs thinking themseleves to death but this didn't seem like that at all. Then again that definition never made sense because Mendicant Bias went rampant but it didn't "think itself to death", it just went rogue and later regretted after defeat.

The best thing they could've done is just have Cortana die for real in Halo 4 and not come back at all. But now not only did they have to address the whole thing they started with Halo 5, but also went the safe way if basically "resetting" Cortana in the form of Weapon.
 

oriic

Prophet of Truth - Press
Verified
Oct 30, 2017
2,179
Hungary
I haven't played Halo Wars 2. I know nothing of Atriox or the Spirit of Fire, and I don't know how big (or small) a role they play in the game.
I don't feel I missed out on anything about them in Halo Infinite. And honestly, I'd say most Halo Infinite players haven't played Halo Wars 2.


I think if you like the story of the Halo world, you should at least check out the cutscenes, get the backstory. (Even if you don't like RTS)

For example the cutscene where they tell the origin of Atriox:

 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,547
It was always a dumb decision to make Cortana evil, more so now that we have clues that it wasn't a "fragment" of Cortana but actual Cortana.

The other thing being Rampancy was said to be basically AIs thinking themseleves to death but this didn't seem like that at all. Then again that definition never made sense because Mendicant Bias went rampant but it didn't "think itself to death", it just went rogue and later regretted after defeat.

The best thing they could've done is just have Cortana die for real in Halo 4 and not come back at all. But now not only did they have to address the whole thing they started with Halo 5, but also went the safe way if basically "resetting" Cortana in the form of Weapon.
It was always supposed to be real Cortana, not a fragment. Which is one of the reasons it was such a shitty decision. Cortana was clearly intended to die for real in Halo 4. Her coming back in Halo 5 IMO feels like a result of the backlash against Halo 4's story with the Forerunners being too confusing, so the Didact was killed in some comic and they moved a more recognizable character into the villain role. Halo 5 also clearly has a bunch of major rewrites. Poor Locke feels like his entire story is missing despite having more campaign levels than Chief.

Halo Infinite honestly handled the Cortana situation better than I thought they could.

I will be very disappointed if the Weapon just becomes Cortana. One of the things I liked about her was how she was different from Cortana. I'm hoping to God they don't just have her pick the name Cortana, even though that's what they were clearly hinting at.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,949
As I said before, I enjoyed the campaign gameplay but that story was just a total nothingburger. I actually booted up Reach last night and played all the way to the end today just so I can remind myself what a good campaign story looks like. Goddamn you Noble Team, fucking real ones, every single one; especially Emile.

😭
 

Remeran

Member
Nov 27, 2018
3,892
As I said before, I enjoyed the campaign gameplay but that story was just a total nothingburger. I actually booted up Reach last night and played all the way to the end today just so I can remind myself what a good campaign story looks like. Goddamn you Noble Team, fucking real ones, every single one; especially Emile.

😭
Reach is my absolute favorite campaign, then halo 2, but infinite is a close 3rd to me. I loved the mystery and the feeling that something big just happen. To me it's great the the story is slowly revealed until the end where you have a pretty clear picture of events.

It's a good intro which I think will make the sequel even better.
 

Kiryu957

Member
Sep 26, 2020
905
As I said before, I enjoyed the campaign gameplay but that story was just a total nothingburger. I actually booted up Reach last night and played all the way to the end today just so I can remind myself what a good campaign story looks like. Goddamn you Noble Team, fucking real ones, every single one; especially Emile.

😭
I'll never understand the love for reach. None of the characters did or said anything before dying to make me care. It did nail the atmosphere of a losing battle thanks to the directing and music.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,949
I'll never understand the love for reach. None of the characters did or said anything before dying to make me care. It did nail the atmosphere of a losing battle thanks to the directing and music.

To each their own, but I thought Bundie did a great job personalizing each member of Noble Team. Emile being this prick who kinda seems to loathe what he is, Jorge the friendly big guy, Cat the witty and curious second-in-command, etc. Like the interaction at the very start with Emile and Jorge always gets me.

*Jorge trying to comfort scared colonist*

Emile: Big man forgets what he is sometimes.
Jorge: She just lost her father.
Jorge (talking to Carter): She needs a full psychiatric workup.
Emile: She's not the only one...
Carter: Lock it down! Both of you.

Bless you Emile for being such a prick. Noble Team actually acts like humans, even the Spartan II Jorge. It's actually funny he's the most compassionate and friendly considering he's a Spartan II.
 
Last edited:
Oct 26, 2017
17,360
Yeah not seeing Cortana being redeemed in the story either.
Maybe not redemption, but they were at least trying to "right" her. They do highlight - and even worsen - atrocities committed by Cortana to head-scratching lows, though they also present her in a forgiving tone. She did destroy a portion of the ring to prevent it from being able to fire so the Banished couldn't control it as a super weapon, and I don't think the game wants you to think that makes up for everything she did, but it's very hard to have the ending emotionally register when a person who murdered comrades and millions is trying to set things right after her passing. Also strange how The Weapon wants to adopt Cortana's name, if that's what she was implying.
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,360
Cortana was clearly intended to die for real in Halo 4.

That may not be as clear as you think. 343i has had a rampancy arc in mind for Cortana for a long time, as they are inspired by the concept of rampancy from Bungie's Marathon games as well. There are some parallels there if you look closely.

Also, there is some cut dialogue from Halo 4 that hints at them having a rampancy character arc in mind at the time. Maybe through development they cut the rampancy idea, only to bring it back out of desperation after the mixed reception of 4, but 343i definitely had more in mind for the character than just killing her off.

I think it could have worked, but the execution was terrible. Curious to see if 343i moves past it, or will use the EU to try to better flesh out her motivations to retroactively improve it, sort of like what Disney is trying (and failing) to do with Palpatine's return.
 

DemonCarnotaur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,226
NYC
A lot of the ambient dialog from Cortana seems to imply her programing become corrupt, and upon hear "death" in H4, the corrupt part took over. So in a way I feel like it was their way of saying the Cortana we knew didn't do that, though parts of that Cortana remained in the corrupt one. It juggled it all well enough.

Or did I misread that?
 

Moose

Prophet of Truth - Hero of Bowerstone
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,163
Did I miss something in expository dialogue with Echo-216 where he says he doesn't have a family? Did they die is he just estranged?
 

Gravemind IV

Member
Nov 26, 2017
1,948
As I said before, I enjoyed the campaign gameplay but that story was just a total nothingburger. I actually booted up Reach last night and played all the way to the end today just so I can remind myself what a good campaign story looks like. Goddamn you Noble Team, fucking real ones, every single one; especially Emile.

😭

Fucking true. If the first mission had been the opening cinematic, then maybe Infinite would have ranked a bit higher.

When people get over their honeymoon phase with the open world they'll soon realize this campaign is a whole load of nothing.

Every mission boils down to press buttons in Banished base or Forerunner interior. No marines, no large scale engagements and pretty much every cutscene is the Weapon doing something at a terminal.

The mission 'The Road' tries to evoke some kind of epic segment but falls completely flat.

I am just so disappointed after 6 years, but guess this is the future considering how most are reacting to it. Guess I'll just stick with the original trilogy and Reach/ODST for my proper Halo fix.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,329
A lot of the ambient dialog from Cortana seems to imply her programing become corrupt, and upon hear "death" in H4, the corrupt part took over. So in a way I feel like it was their way of saying the Cortana we knew didn't do that, though parts of that Cortana remained in the corrupt one. It juggled it all well enough.

Or did I misread that?
Whether you did or not and whatever the intention of 343 it doesn't matter given the fact that the original Cortana was well into rampancy at the end of Halo 4...so nothing wrong with your interpretation.
 

Señor Sepia

Member
Aug 2, 2020
867
What
I'll never understand the love for reach. None of the characters did or said anything before dying to make me care. It did nail the atmosphere of a losing battle thanks to the directing and music.
Yeah, they kinda suck, for a game that tried to make you care about their characters they dont really try to make them any good. The only cutscenes i like are the first one with Halsey and the one in the cave, those 2 are fantastic but everything else is just... there.

I only really like Jorge and maybe Kat. I remember there were plans for an extra Noble member but they had to remove it so they had more time to develop the other characters, good job with that i guess lol, they could have deleted Jun too because he is such a nothing character. Actually, removing Jun and making Emile be the one that survives and helps to recruit the new spartans could be a good way to redeem him from being an absolute asshole.
 

Granadier

Member
Nov 4, 2018
1,605
Cortana has lost control. A crashed Guardian is shown in the game.
It's mentioned through audio logs and/or echo dialogue that Cortana crashed the Guardian into the Ring to destroy it/herself before Atriox could destroy or capture her.

I'll never understand the love for reach. None of the characters did or said anything before dying to make me care. It did nail the atmosphere of a losing battle thanks to the directing and music.
I can never take this sort of opinion on Reach seriously as it just comes off as trying to be needlessly edgy.
 

Stopdoor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,778
Toronto
I think some people get hung up on expectations/hopes when talking about Infinite's story.

I'll agree that despite the attempts to fill in story bits from previous games with Cortana's echoes, it's still not a great jumping in point for completely new players. There's just a lot of things that have happened to lead up to this point.

But I've noticed a lot of people upset that it doesn't account for where X or Y character is, or what happened to the Spirit of Fire, etc. That stuff just really doesn't matter. The story of Infinite is about the fallout of Halo 4 and 5 and how it affects Chief, The Pilot, and The Weapon. That's the core cast, and that's what 343 chose to write this story about. It's okay if you're not into that, but that fact doesn't make the story "ass" or any other hyperbolic statements. Not every story needs to be an encyclopedia of the entire universe and what happened to this or that character. It's just a smaller scale to focus on in this particular entry. I think 343 made that decision because, well, look at how people reacted to Halo 5, which was a big grand galactic adventure with tons of characters.

As for Halo Wars 2, I never played it either, but it doesn't really matter for this story. The Spirit of Fire isn't involved in these events in any way, so I don't think it's a fair expectation to think Infinite should continue that story. There could always be a Halo Wars 3 for that. Sure, The Banished are involved, but their history really doesn't matter much for Infinite's story either. If you played Halo Wars 2, you'll know about their background, but it doesn't matter if you do or don't. They just needed to be a covenant-style opposing force for you to fight through while going through the core cast's personal journeys. Their motivations ARE explained in game, unlike the Didact's in Halo 4. The Banished want control of the ring so they can become more powerful with its technology and buried secrets, and also so they can defeat Cortana, who destroyed the Brute homeworld. This is all slowly fleshed out in the game. It's not necessary to know 100% of this all from the start. Hell, even Chief doesn't know what the Banished are doing there when the game starts.

I think the mystery around the state of things when the game starts is really cool, and it's an intriguing hook to keep exploring and progressing the story once you realize that its drip-feeding you that info via the echoes, audio logs, etc. It feels like some people expected a big opening cutscene explaining the state of things, or for Chief to turn to the camera Thor style and say "You're probably wondering how I got here!" *cut to "18 months ago" title card*. It's just a different style of storytelling, and I, for one, really enjoyed it. I learned everything I needed to know about the story from playing the game. I didn't read Shadows of Reach or play Halo Wars 2, but I was fine. Again though, if I had never consumed any Halo Media in my life, it would be a different story. I still feel it's best to have at least watched a summary on youtube before going into Infinite.

The other complaint I've seen a few times is people saying the writing is bad because Cortana got a "redemption story". I never once thought this was a redemption story. If the game was trying to shove in my face "CORTANA WAS GOOD ALL ALONG!" or like, people were building monuments and memorials to her because she helped stop the Banished, now THAT would be bad writing. In the end, she still essentially committed genocide and was generally a horrible monster. That's how people will remember her. But she used her last moments to do ONE good thing. That's not a redemption story. It's just a moment of clarity and regret, and an opportunity to get some nice warm feelings of positive closure between Cortana and Chief. It's like Darth Vader using his last moments to save his son's life. No, it's not a redemption and he's not looked at as a hero when all is said and done. But it was a satisfying moment for the character's arc and gave us just a the tiniest reason to feel a bittersweet sadness about his death.

Anyway, just wanted to say my piece on these issues. If you aren't into this kind of story, that's fine. I personally thought it worked really well, especially considering the weird state 343 wrote themselves into with Halo 5. I'm ALWAYS one to prefer a more character focused story rather than a universe focused one. I had a fantastic time and was very moved by the narrative themes of forgiveness and trust <3

I complained about a bit about the unambiguous fate of some of the ancillary characters like the Spirit of Fire, Locke, Lasky, Halsey, etc. - obviously, it would be shoehorning to straight up make that part of the plotline but my real headscratcher is why the audio logs couldn't give us some more substantial stuff like that. It makes for a more satisfying reward than Esharam ranting and raving about the Chief for what feels like the tenth time. All he has to do is pontify on previous events, namedrop some things, and it would feel less like everything is left frustratingly ambiguous. I don't think that's that unreasonable. The amount of mystery left after it's all over is just a bit much.

I fucking hate talk of "redemption" in media online because 90% of it is people bitching that being shown in any sympathetic light whatsoever means redemption.

You have to admit seeing Chief left for dead being the heel-turn for her was a real eye-roller. The entire plotline of Halo 5 was Chief making his way to a final conversation with her and falling flat, and then this game goes out of its way to show her completely disregard him by attacking humanity - her final speech just doesn't land for me because it seems clear they want us to get something from it and it just doesn't work with everything that's been laid out. It's just too heartfelt for such a selfish reason, it ironically portrays her as more of a monster in the way she seems to disregard anything except John.

Like I dunno, hate the criticism all you want, but you think this arc was handled well?
 

Blue Ninja

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,756
Belgium
I think they are both dead.


"Do you have anyone out there? - No. Not anymore"


I thought it meant that wasn't his family, but of the real Pelican pilot, whose bird he stole when he fled Infinity.

That holo was the only thing remotely close he had to human contact for six months, but it's not his family: that made it just a bit sadder.

Then again, the Chief didn't mention Blue Team as his family either, so I dunno.
 

Burt

Fight Sephiroth or end video games
Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,135
I think I would have significantly fewer issues if they just did the most basic

the most basic

setup for the game.

The opening cutscene is absolutely nonsensical. You don't know where they are, you don't know why they're fighting, you don't know who they're fighting, you don't know the big bad, and then they throw you out of it 6 months later and Big Bad is dead and everyone else is ... dead? but also there's human stuff all over the ring and you don't even know why you're on that Halo.

I don't care if this stuff is in novels or comics or previous games, and especially not if it's in a RTS spin-off from five years ago. This isn't a movie trilogy, it's a decades-long IP that spans basically every single entertainment medium and has seen significant erosion in audience mindshare over the last few mainline entries. You can't just say "We're gonna Battle of Hoth it". There's a bare minimum context threshold you need to hit, and they don't even "not try" here, it's like they thought it was a good idea to go sprinting off the other way.

All I needed was an opening cutscene that was on Zeta Halo, with a placard that said "Zeta Halo Research Outpost, est. 2555", and a timestamp that said 2559, and some researcher radioing in "Affirmative, doctor, we've installed the Weapon" and then the Brute warships jumping in above. And then instead of that Brute ship opening level, have it set on the Infinity, and have someone say, "We're en route to stop Cortana from taking over Zeta Halo", and then the brutes attack, and then build Atriox through some Escharum-esque holo-dialogue, and then have him toss Chief out at the end.

Like, I'm supposed to know that there's a human research outpost on this nth Halo ring? That's my fault?

I always complain about the opening of Resident Evil 4. Like, the actual opening cutscene that sets the stage. Leon was a rookie cop in Raccoon City and now... he's a Bad Dude rescuing the president's daughter... in Spain...? I feel like there's a few steps missing there. But that's the point, and the game is having fun with stuff like that.

The opening of Halo Infinite is both worse in terms of delivering fundamental information, and is playing it completely straight. In a game that's clearly supposed to be a fresh start/soft reboot for the franchise.

I can't believe they didn't even bother with a sentence worth of text scroll.

edit: oh that's right, the Battle of Hoth did have a text scroll in front of it.
 

Gunny T Highway

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,997
Canada
Fucking true. If the first mission had been the opening cinematic, then maybe Infinite would have ranked a bit higher.

When people get over their honeymoon phase with the open world they'll soon realize this campaign is a whole load of nothing.

Every mission boils down to press buttons in Banished base or Forerunner interior. No marines, no large scale engagements and pretty much every cutscene is the Weapon doing something at a terminal.

The mission 'The Road' tries to evoke some kind of epic segment but falls completely flat.

I am just so disappointed after 6 years, but guess this is the future considering how most are reacting to it. Guess I'll just stick with the original trilogy and Reach/ODST for my proper Halo fix.
I hope future campaign expansions will actual have some levels that invoke a big battle going on. One of my favorite missions to this day showing an epic scale battle at least in the background is Tip of the Spear from Halo Reach.
 

HungryYellow

Alt account
Banned
Nov 11, 2021
863
Fucking true. If the first mission had been the opening cinematic, then maybe Infinite would have ranked a bit higher.

When people get over their honeymoon phase with the open world they'll soon realize this campaign is a whole load of nothing.

Every mission boils down to press buttons in Banished base or Forerunner interior. No marines, no large scale engagements and pretty much every cutscene is the Weapon doing something at a terminal.

The mission 'The Road' tries to evoke some kind of epic segment but falls completely flat.

I am just so disappointed after 6 years, but guess this is the future considering how most are reacting to it. Guess I'll just stick with the original trilogy and Reach/ODST for my proper Halo fix.
No.
 

oriic

Prophet of Truth - Press
Verified
Oct 30, 2017
2,179
Hungary
I thought it meant that wasn't his family, but of the real Pelican pilot, whose bird he stole when he fled Infinity.

That holo was the only thing remotely close he had to human contact for six months, but it's not his family: that made it just a bit sadder.

Then again, the Chief didn't mention Blue Team as his family either, so I dunno.

I saw a conversation in 2019 after the E3 trailer with Chris Lee. He talked about the scene where the hologram shows the pilot's family.




"He's watching the hologram, saying goodbye to his family, probably thinking that he's breathing his last breath."


Of course, I know that was a long time ago. Maybe it was just a cover-up to hide the man's true identity. Maybe you're right, but I thought from the beginning that they were his family, just killed in one of the attacks.
 

Burt

Fight Sephiroth or end video games
Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,135
Actually, to condense my post and erase my fanfiction, all it needed was to convey this information:

There is a Halo ring with a human outpost on it. Cortana, having gone bad, is traveling there to [exploit its power in some way]. Master Chief, aboard the UNSC Infinity, is headed to the ring to stop her. However, a Covenant splinter faction known as the Banished, led by Atriox, has arrived there before them, seeking to use the ring for themselves.

That's it. There's no reason to not have that information anywhere in the opening of the game. It's vital to understand what's going on, is the slightest of stage setting, and is available nowhere in the introduction. I have no idea why.
 
Nov 7, 2019
306
That may not be as clear as you think. 343i has had a rampancy arc in mind for Cortana for a long time, as they are inspired by the concept of rampancy from Bungie's Marathon games as well. There are some parallels there if you look closely.

Also, there is some cut dialogue from Halo 4 that hints at them having a rampancy character arc in mind at the time. Maybe through development they cut the rampancy idea, only to bring it back out of desperation after the mixed reception of 4, but 343i definitely had more in mind for the character than just killing her off.

I think it could have worked, but the execution was terrible. Curious to see if 343i moves past it, or will use the EU to try to better flesh out her motivations to retroactively improve it, sort of like what Disney is trying (and failing) to do with Palpatine's return.
343 said on record that knew Halo 5's story before they knew 4's.
 
I am very intrigued by the story of Halo Infinite and the future story of the franchise but I am a tad worried as well. It feels like we threw away the Forerunners (which honestly might be the best call since it was pretty much botched) and now we're doing what probably should have happened with the Forerunners. Didact should have awoken them and there should have been a second Human-Forerunner war. It also seems like instead of a return of The Flood, we're getting The Endless which honestly might work out that's just a big IF. I want Halo to avoid going through countless new alien races and factions every 2-3 games. Yes, the move from The Covenant to The Banished works great but we'll see where things go from here. Excited and scared.
 

Welfare

Prophet of Truth - You’re my Numberwall
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,912
CE thrust you in the middle of an ongoing war and succeeded without needing to explain everything.

Not sure what Infinite did different. Chief goes from spaceship to Halo and finds out a mysterious force is hidden on the ring.

The game doesn't even focus on the past outside of Cortana. When you go to Zeta Halo you rebuild the UNSC, not worrying about characters from previous games. The Banished get explained throughout the game by different characters.

Is a first time player really going to be more lost than it they played CE first? Infinite goes out of its way to not worry about what came before except for Cortana, and they spend a ton of time on her.

Actually, to condense my post and erase my fanfiction, all it needed was to convey this information:

There is a Halo ring with a human outpost on it. Cortana, having gone bad, is traveling there to [exploit its power in some way]. Master Chief, aboard the UNSC Infinity, is headed to the ring to stop her. However, a Covenant splinter faction known as the Banished, led by Atriox, has arrived there before them, seeking to use the ring for themselves.

That's it. There's no reason to not have that information anywhere in the opening of the game. It's vital to understand what's going on, is the slightest of stage setting, and is available nowhere in the introduction. I have no idea why.

You learn all that throughout the game. Why does it need to be crammed in the first 3 minutes?
 

Zebesian-X

Member
Dec 3, 2018
19,689
Actually, to condense my post and erase my fanfiction, all it needed was to convey this information:

There is a Halo ring with a human outpost on it. Cortana, having gone bad, is traveling there to [exploit its power in some way]. Master Chief, aboard the UNSC Infinity, is headed to the ring to stop her. However, a Covenant splinter faction known as the Banished, led by Atriox, has arrived there before them, seeking to use the ring for themselves.

That's it. There's no reason to not have that information anywhere in the opening of the game. It's vital to understand what's going on, is the slightest of stage setting, and is available nowhere in the introduction. I have no idea why.
I'm loving my time with the campaign but I was initially completely checked out with the story largely thanks to problems you're describing. As a lapsed fan I needed more clarity, or a better hook to get myself invested.

I've since warmed up to Cortana 2.0 and I'm enjoying this game's take on the Chief. There's a lot to like about the narrative! I just wish it could have started in a better place.
 

Burt

Fight Sephiroth or end video games
Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,135
CE thrust you in the middle of an ongoing war and succeeded without needing to explain everything.

Not sure what Infinite did different. Chief goes from spaceship to Halo and finds out a mysterious force is hidden on the ring.

The game doesn't even focus on the past outside of Cortana. When you go to Zeta Halo you rebuild the UNSC, not worrying about characters from previous games. The Banished get explained throughout the game by different characters.

Is a first time player really going to be more lost than it they played CE first? Infinite goes out of its way to not worry about what came before except for Cortana, and they spend a ton of time on her.
There is more information conveyed in the first two sentences here than the entire opening and first stage of Infinite. Feel free to compare the entire thing.



You're on a warship. You're running away from an enemy. You blind jumped and have no idea where you are. They shouldn't have been able to track you but they did. They're waiting for you. You're technologically outmatched. You've got nowhere to go but down to the weird structure ahead of you. You're a super badass waking up from cryo sleep. Etc., etc., etc. That's a stage, set.
You learn all that throughout the game. Why does it need to be crammed in the first 3 minutes?
It's a Halo game, not James Joyce. I love The Evil Within and it doesn't explain a damn thing in the beginning, but you know who the character is, why they are where they are, and why they're doing what they're doing. There's no reason to withhold the stuff that Infinite does, and doing so only makes things confusing and unmotivated.
 

Wrexis

Member
Nov 4, 2017
21,229
I think if you like the story of the Halo world, you should at least check out the cutscenes, get the backstory. (Even if you don't like RTS)

For example the cutscene where they tell the origin of Atriox:

This is pretty good. Thank you.
I might give Halo Wars 2 a go...I was hoping for a Steam release but I guess that's not happening.
 

mjhaas

Member
Aug 28, 2019
146
This game just cemented the fact that Jen Taylor is a phenomenal VA. Cortana, Dr. Halsey, and the Weapon all sound similar but each come across as distinct beings in tone and inflection. I went back to watch some Halo CE cutscenes and she's been nailing it for 20 years now with Cortana et al.

Like others have said, I have a gripe that Cortana's story/life ended in a flashback. While Master Chief is on the box art, Cortana has always been at the core of this series' narrative. I wanted more of a conclusion between Cortana and John. Having just finished the campaign today, the conclusion we got left me unsatisfied.

I don't think it's gonna sit right with me if the Weapon takes Cortana's name. I get she's a clone but she isn't the same person.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,949
There is more information conveyed in the first two sentences here than the entire opening and first stage of Infinite. Feel free to compare the entire thing.



You're on a warship. You're running away from an enemy. You blind jumped and have no idea where you are. They shouldn't have been able to track you but they did. They're waiting for you. You're technologically outmatched. You've got nowhere to go but down to the weird structure ahead of you. You're a super badass waking up from cryo sleep. Etc., etc., etc. That's a stage, set.

It's a Halo game, not James Joyce. I love The Evil Within and it doesn't explain a damn thing in the beginning, but you know who the character is, why they are where they are, and why they're doing what they're doing. There's no reason to withhold the stuff that Infinite does, and doing so only makes things confusing and unmotivated.


Also, let's not forget CE was made during a time where crucial story information was given in the game manual. So you get further background information on the entire conflict and the Covenant by reading the manual thus preparing you for the opening.
 

Dmax3901

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,865
Was enjoying it well enough but the last third or so really brought me down on the story overall. Escharum and Cortana's real-time audio logs (delivered via data dreams or holograms) were so tedious. Didn't help that the last 5? 6? missions were so samey, blue hallway after blue hallway, combat encounter after combat encounter.

Anyway, think I'll have a blast collecting all the open-world stuff, so there's that!
 

Abrasion Test

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,761
Was enjoying it well enough but the last third or so really brought me down on the story overall. Escharum and Cortana's real-time audio logs (delivered via data dreams or holograms) were so tedious. Didn't help that the last 5? 6? missions were so samey, blue hallway after blue hallway, combat encounter after combat encounter.

Anyway, think I'll have a blast collecting all the open-world stuff, so there's that!
I haven't quite finished yet, but the whole sequence of missions after The Sequence just sucked a lot of the excitement I had for the campaign away. It makes the cut corners seem really apparent.
 

Cranster

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,788
343i really nailed it this time along with multiplayer. The future of Halo is brighter than ever!
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,360
343 said on record that knew Halo 5's story before they knew 4's.
That's impossible because they cut down and rewrote what they had planned to follow 4 with. They were probably referring to Cortana's rampancy in that interview (I think I recall it as the one with Frankie and Brian Reed), and they had an interest in pursuing a rampancy story with Cortana prior to 4 from what I know, as they were inspired by the Marathon Trilogy. I doubt there was much else they had in mind prior to 4's story that was in Guardians.
 

Bobbyleejones

Banned
Aug 25, 2019
2,581
What a great story

can't wait for the next installment

it kinda crazy Cortana just destroyed a whole class of Spartans and the banished gave the usnc and spartans hell