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HTupolev

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,419
Sure hope that raytracing update for Halo Infinite comes around this year 😆

Some of these interiors would look amazing. They already do imo, but with some proper RTAO and even better reflections? Yessiirrr
Infinite could desperately use better indirect lighting data. I've taken issue with this in all of 343i's games, but Infinite's vibrancy and extreme use of screen-space information cranks things to 11. Especially since, unlike Halo 4, it's not able to package the lighting jank as material stylization.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
792
I feel like this might be reaching.

But after bonobo....



While I do think that the whole bonobono thing is definitely not a coincidence and that there is no way that it was "just the name of the software, man"... yeah, that's reaching.

On the other hand if next week we have a fried chicken coating or some reference to a refreshing bright red drink... then you might be on to something.
 

Biosnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,238
EUpRifY.png


One day this will be its constant place.

biblethump.png.webp
man the viewership in those first few weeks/months, so much positivity then
 

Juan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,435
EUpRifY.png


One day this will be its constant place.

biblethump.png.webp

I don't think it will 🥲


1656525011-capture-d-ecran-2022-06-29-a-19-49-47.jpg


Speaking of maps, I seem to remember you mentioning that you had some info about upcoming maps coming to Halo Infinite. Do you have any more info to share?

We should be done by the end of week, we had to trim down the amount of information we would share during this episode because some could be a little bit too sensitive and get us in trouble.
 

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
54,230
patch notes for the 1.5 GB update is literally just Recharged fixed and put back into ranked 😭
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,645
halo infinite remains the only application on my pc that can crash it so hard the whole thing reboots
seems to happen about once a session
 

BizzyBum

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,135
New York
I really feel people fail to recognize how huge that was. So many people were paying attention to Halo again, there was so much good will... God how did we end up here?

Poor upper management (Bonnie and especially Frankie need to hit the road)
Super barebones (originally didn't even launch with a Team Slayer playlist)
BTB was broken for weeks early on
Awful technical issues (desync, bad performance, tons of crashes on PC)
PC-only players dipping out in droves once they realized how big a disadvantage MNK was in comparison to controller players
A bad challenge system (even worse at launch due to lack of playlists and way harder challenges to complete)
An egregious item shop with insane pricing
High developer turnover right before launch, during launch, and after launch

I think they all knew the drop off was going to be high, so they released the multiplayer a month early to try and generate as much buzz for as long as possible. What they didn't account for was how bad the desync issues were going to be and how bad the backlash was going to be for the item shop and challenge system.
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,359
Poor upper management (Bonnie and especially Frankie need to hit the road)
Super barebones (originally didn't even launch with a Team Slayer playlist)
BTB was broken for weeks early on
Awful technical issues (desync, bad performance, tons of crashes on PC)
PC-only players dipping out in droves once they realized how big a disadvantage MNK was in comparison to controller players
A bad challenge system (even worse at launch due to lack of playlists and way harder challenges to complete)
An egregious item shop with insane pricing
High developer turnover right before launch, during launch, and after launch

I think they all knew the drop off was going to be high, so they released the multiplayer a month early to try and generate as much buzz for as long as possible. What they didn't account for was how bad the desync issues were going to be and how bad the backlash was going to be for the item shop and challenge system.
Well it's clear why the game failed, I more meant that after over 10 years of handling Halo and 2 major titles that got them plenty of feedback, in addition to the longest dev cycle we've seen between Halo games, how could they let this happen? How could Xbox keep letting a studio function like this? I don't think Infinite, and possibly Halo, will ever recover from this.
 

BizzyBum

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,135
New York
Well it's clear why the game failed, I more meant that after over 10 years of handling Halo and 2 major titles that got them plenty of feedback, in addition to the longest dev cycle we've seen between Halo games, how could they let this happen? How could Xbox keep letting a studio function like this? I don't think Infinite, and possibly Halo, will ever recover from this.

It was and still is 343's management and the people who call the shots.

Infinite was the longest dev cycle but only because they tinkered with developing a hero shooter for years as well trying the UE engine before scrapping everything, creating an updated engine in-house, and scrambling to give us what our current multiplayer is in a span of like 2 solid years, couple in the fact of dealing with COVID during the final crunch time.

Nothing will change until Microsoft completely wipes the slate clean of 343's current upper management, or effectively gives the franchise to an entirely different studio.
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,359
It was and still is 343's management and the people who call the shots.

Infinite was the longest dev cycle but only because they tinkered with developing a hero shooter for years as well trying the UE engine before scrapping everything, creating an updated engine in-house, and scrambling to give us what our current multiplayer is in a span of like 2 solid years, couple in the fact of dealing with COVID during the final crunch time.

Nothing will change until Microsoft completely wipes the slate clean of 343's current upper management, or effectively gives the franchise to an entirely different studio.
I didn't hear about them trying the UE engine, I thought it was all within Slipspace?
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,359
I think they tested using it early on but then decided to develop Slipspace instead. I don't think they wasted a ton of development time using UE.
Wish it worked out, would have been better in the long run. But if Halo survives this, I really think 343i (or at least whoever in management should be held accountable) has got to go. When it comes to running a franchise into the ground, third time should be the charm.
 
Jan 6, 2022
951
Well it's clear why the game failed, I more meant that after over 10 years of handling Halo and 2 major titles that got them plenty of feedback, in addition to the longest dev cycle we've seen between Halo games, how could they let this happen? How could Xbox keep letting a studio function like this? I don't think Infinite, and possibly Halo, will ever recover from this.
I mean, if you read prior interviews, Xbox wanted to retire Halo before Bonnie Ross convinced them to save it. I don't think Xbox cares that much about the success of the game, which is a shame, as I still think it is/can be the marquee franchise on Xbox.

I do think 343 does not have the manpower or talent to create what we think they should be able to create. I would love to see Certain Affinity take a more active role in the development of Halo, if only for a quick way to boost up the manpower.

Overall, I am very much not a fan of 343's output, but almost all people involved in those games (at the highest levels) have been replaced. So I don't know how to feel now
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,322
343 has had a senior leadership problem since it's inception- they're always completely out-of-tune with the playerbase and the market and try to build lofty goals upon a shaky foundation.
 

BizzyBum

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,135
New York
I mean, if you read prior interviews, Xbox wanted to retire Halo before Bonnie Ross convinced them to save it. I don't think Xbox cares that much about the success of the game, which is a shame, as I still think it is/can be the marquee franchise on Xbox.

I assume they wanted to retire it because Bungie left Xbox and were moving onto Destiny so it's understandable, though I have a hard time believing they wanted to retire it for good. It would have came back eventually.

There's also no way they don't care about its success. They wanted Infinite to be the main launch game for their next-gen Series X system, they obviously still hold the franchise in high regard.
 

DemonCarnotaur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,226
NYC
343 has had a senior leadership problem since it's inception- they're always completely out-of-tune with the playerbase and the market and try to build lofty goals upon a shaky foundation.

yeah, this seems like a fair analysis -- I sometimes get what they're thinking, but tend to feel like they go about it all the wrong way and oftentimes just seem entirely out of step with every way they execute on it and won't listen to critique until it's too late

the studio needs a shakeup -- not sure if that means taking things further in a new direction, or just committing to a vision and spending the cash to make it happen
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,359
I haven't heard of Xbox ever wanting to retire Halo (the multi billion dollar franchise that is the reason Xbox continued to exist in the first place), so I'd like to see what article that comes from.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,322
yeah, this seems like a fair analysis -- I sometimes get what they're thinking, but tend to feel like they go about it all the wrong way and oftentimes just seem entirely out of step with every way they execute on it and won't listen to critique until it's too late

the studio needs a shakeup -- not sure if that means taking things further in a new direction, or just committing to a vision and spending the cash to make it happen

💯 especially on the late response to criticism.

With 343, It's always "we hear what you're saying but we're confident you'll love our radical and transparently problematic approach" … then it ships to predictable rejection and it's "we're going to slowly apply these learnings while the audience loses interest" … rinse and repeat.
 
Jan 6, 2022
951
I haven't heard of Xbox ever wanting to retire Halo (the multi billion dollar franchise that is the reason Xbox continued to exist in the first place), so I'd like to see what article that comes from.
I'll need to find it, it was from an interview with Bonnie Ross, so maybe it's a biased source? I think it was from the Halo: 2 documentary, but I'm not sure
 
Jan 6, 2022
951
I assume they wanted to retire it because Bungie left Xbox and were moving onto Destiny so it's understandable, though I have a hard time believing they wanted to retire it for good. It would have came back eventually.

There's also no way they don't care about its success. They wanted Infinite to be the main launch game for their next-gen Series X system, they obviously still hold the franchise in high regard.
Yeah, I don't think I was fair when I said that. It does boggle the mind how they've treated it, though. I've greatly disliked 343's output for a long time, and Infinite is the first game of theirs that I've enjoyed (unfortunately, I love it haha). I just wish that Microsoft pumped money and employees into the studio 10 years ago, and if not then, today. However, I'm not sure that more money or employees would've helped them 10 years ago (imo). I don't know, this is kind of a ramble that ends with me saying that I'd love to see O'Connor and Ross step away, but almost every other leadership role has been turned over at 343 and change takes time. I would love to see Certain Affinity involved in a more official and long-term capacity
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,322
Yeah, I don't think I was fair when I said that. It does boggle the mind how they've treated it, though. I've greatly disliked 343's output for a long time, and Infinite is the first game of theirs that I've enjoyed (unfortunately, I love it haha). I just wish that Microsoft pumped money and employees into the studio 10 years ago, and if not then, today. However, I'm not sure that more money or employees would've helped them 10 years ago (imo). I don't know, this is kind of a ramble that ends with me saying that I'd love to see O'Connor and Ross step away, but almost every other leadership role has been turned over at 343 and change takes time. I would love to see Certain Affinity involved in a more official and long-term capacity

10 years ago, they put out a competent game… it was just completely out of touch with what people want from a Halo game.

I wouldn't say they needed more people or money back then. they just needed a director who wanted to make a Halo game. Instead they wasted years with a director who's job interview pitch was that he'd make a game that was unrecognizable as a Halo sequel. Sounds ridiculous in hindsight, and should have been disqualifying back then, but it sounded great to the Studio head for some reason. Eventually this director got canned (surprise!) , and they scraped together a Halo themed COD clone from the pieces.

Imagine where we'd could be now, if 343s first mandate was to make a sequel to Halo 3 (or better yet, Halo CE2). It took them 10 years to decide to take that approach, but only after spinning wheels during a 6 year dev cycle. They are clueless and rudderless
 
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OP
OP
FUNKNOWN iXi

FUNKNOWN iXi

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,581
I really feel people fail to recognize how huge that was. So many people were paying attention to Halo again, there was so much good will... God how did we end up here?
God responds:

Your solution -
It's been in front of us for 20 years and people still don't give enough respect to those 3 phenomenal years that single-handled saved Xbox and put this franchise on the map of gaming history.
 

SeanM

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,420
USA
I haven't heard of Xbox ever wanting to retire Halo (the multi billion dollar franchise that is the reason Xbox continued to exist in the first place), so I'd like to see what article that comes from.

I remember reading that MS approached Gearbox about taking over the Halo IP at first. I highly doubt they were willing to just retire the franchise back in 2007 when Halo was literally at its peak... probably some embellishment from Bonnie Ross there.
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,359
I remember reading that MS approached Gearbox about taking over the Halo IP at first. I highly doubt they were willing to just retire the franchise back in 2007 when Halo was literally at its peak... probably some embellishment from Bonnie Ross there.
If they weren't so embedded in EA now I'd love to see Respawn take a crack at it, given they hold true to the core design of the game
 

T-800

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,138
343 Guilty Spark

If this was a list of the most annoying characters in the Halo series, this little floating ball of stupid would be at the top of it. Guilty Spark switches between helping Master Chief and trying to kill him seemingly on a daily basis. This culminated in the final mission of Halo 3, where he tries to stop us from destroying the Halo ring.


Hey let's name ourselves after this character. Should have been the first clue.
 
OP
OP
FUNKNOWN iXi

FUNKNOWN iXi

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,581
I randomly decided to look for this article and I think I actually found it lol --

[Bloomberg] - Can the Woman Behind Halo 5 Save Xbox?

Relevant bit about Bonnie Ross's comments -

Microsoft had bought Bungie, the studio that created Halo, in 2000. For the most part, it left the studio alone, but for creative reasons, Bungie wanted to spin off. In 2007, Microsoft let the company go, keeping Halo and forming 343 to run it. Bungie now makes the video game Destiny, a key Halo competitor.

Ross's colleagues saw her decision to take on this project as a bad move for a young person on the rise—there was a feeling at Microsoft that Halo had run its course. "People felt like, Let's get another Halo or two out, and it's the end of the franchise," Ross says. "The thing I asked for was: If I take it over, I want to be George Lucas. I want to own everything, and I want to do things differently."

Interesting -

The video game world, dark and conspiracy-prone in the best of times, worried that Microsoft would kill the game with corporate-think. O'Connor, then at Bungie, helped with the transition. . . . He quit Bungie and returned to Microsoft to help her with the new studio, which they named 343 Industries after a villainous piece of artificial intelligence that shows up in several Halo games.

😏
 

Ont

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,050
I am fine with 343 leadership personally.

Halo Infinite is still the best multiplayer FPS game I have played in the past 22 years, and it is the only multiplayer FPS I want to keep playing.

Most developers would have opted to do a boring class based BR hybrid whilst chasing all the latest trends, but whoever at 343 decided to take Infinite's multiplayer to this direction was completely right. For me Infinite's Ranked mode is pure joy to play.

Since 343 made a great arena shooter during this time and age, they have my money and support going forward.
 

Ont

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,050
UT2003 lightning gun lives on in Infinite. So satisfying to get headshot kills with it.

 

BeaconofTruth

Member
Dec 30, 2017
3,417
I think the "well respected devs" would be just as likely to come up with dumb gameplay ideas to have their own twist on Halo as 343 was initially.

Nothing about Respawns current shooters or the shooters they used to make when they were infinity ward makes me think they know how to make the psuedo arena shooter Halo is. Definitely talented tho.

Microsoft owns Id, and while Doom Eternal bangs, they fucked up making a Quake game, a way better arena shooter IP, so I wouldn't hold my breath there. But the talent is certainly there of course.

Fuck no to Machine Games. Ditto the idea of Gearbox.

343 management and Microsoft I have little faith in as well tho smh. It's a shame given how well Halo 5 played.
 

jem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,757
The biggest issue with Infinite seems to have been poor creative direction during development.

Thing is they've now been cleared out and we have Joe Staten who seems to be doing a decent job.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,322
I am fine with 343 leadership personally.

Halo Infinite is still the best multiplayer FPS game I have played in the past 22 years, and it is the only multiplayer FPS I want to keep playing.

Most developers would have opted to do a boring class based BR hybrid whilst chasing all the latest trends, but whoever at 343 decided to take Infinite's multiplayer to this direction was completely right. For me Infinite's Ranked mode is pure joy to play.

Since 343 made a great arena shooter during this time and age, they have my money and support going forward.

From the time this studio was created until the time they realized Halo Infinite SHOULDN'T be a hero shooter took WAY to long for me to agree this studio has had good leadership.

The direction taken with Infinite's multiplayer pointed in the right direction, but after 6 years in dev, it has the technical performance and content suite of a game in alpha.

The biggest issue with Infinite seems to have been poor creative direction during development.

Thing is they've now been cleared out and we have Joe Staten who seems to be doing a decent job.

I'm happy Staten is on board. But he's now tasked with renovating a house build on a shaky foundation. Release candidates that were expected to take 3months are taking twice as long. The tool set must be absolutely horrendous. Turnover is high. The fanbase in a constant state of disappointment. I certainly don't envy his position.
 
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Ont

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,050
From the time this studio was created until the time they realized Halo Infinite SHOULDN'T be a hero shooter took WAY to long for me to agree this studio has had good leadership.

The direction taken with Infinite's multiplayer pointed in the right direction, but after 6 years in dev, it has the technical performance and content suite of a game in alpha.

This '6 years in development' line is pointless when talking about game development. They did not spent 6 years making this version of Halo Infinite.

Games like Diablo 4 and Halo Infinite had iterations that were aborted during the development, and the work was restarted whilst some assets were carried forward. Considerable amount of time was spent on creating new engines and tools for the developers to create content. It is not like they had a working Infinite map editor ready to go 5 years ago.

Instead of 6 years, on this particular iteration of multiplayer they might have had something like 2 - 3 years. When describing Season 2 content, it sounded like the developers were still learning the tools used to create cosmetic items.
 

BeaconofTruth

Member
Dec 30, 2017
3,417
The biggest issue with Infinite seems to have been poor creative direction during development.

Thing is they've now been cleared out and we have Joe Staten who seems to be doing a decent job.
I mean that goes back to leadership right?

Like even if we took the gameplay of each of their Halo's out of the equation and what problems they presented (since I think each of em has their own unique short coming), on top of their games not being as polished, feature complete, and kind of scummy a lot of that is also a by product of management and the nature of making a triple A game for Microsoft/making a triple A game in the present era.

They made a brand spanking new triple A shooter on the 360, late into that consoles life cycle, while basically starting a brand new studio from scratch with an old outdated engine. They promised their devs that they would do the leg work to take care of the toolset, before they started on Halo 5. Isn't what happened. Most of the Halo 4 campaign leads weren't there for Halo 5s campaign necessarily, so you had new leads making new mistakes.

Like maybe Staten is the guy to be what say Rod Ferguson seems to have been on his projects, where he just keeps the creatives n team buttoned up, focused n stuff. Maybe that's what 343 needed all along. Because I don't think the studio is filled with these incompetent clowns that some people want to think they are, the people making the game seem to be plenty talented and have solid ideas. If at times some misguided ideas.

This '6 years in development' line is pointless when talking about game development. They did not spent 6 years making this version of Halo Infinite.
This is also true, plus length of time isn't some like oh of course it should have been better. If anything its just as likely to be highlighting a struggling development, which we more or less got privy to the moment they showed the campaign for the first time.