This game has netcode rng. H5 pistol would make this game 10x more fun and fair.
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i've having such a rough night with every match filled with dumbass teammate that in the last slayer match it took me a while to notice that i had 2 bots during the majority of it
I can respect that if you don't like spammy precision starting weapons, but Halo's had spammy precision weapons since the Carbine.
Not confused, but yeah that is what I'm referring to lol. The damn shots just don't register online. One game it feels amazing, the next it's like you pump a full mag into someone and you have to finish them off with a melee, and that's maybeee the melee will connect.
I'm saying that like skill, they probably track "propensity to quit or idle" as one of the metrics to build matches, pairing people who don't quit and are skilled with people who do quit and who are lesser skilled.
I don't have a quitter problem in ranked, but I definitely do in Quick Play.
Could it just be the inherent nature of the modes and incentive systems contributing to the high frequency of quits? Yes, absolutely. And that's a big part of it.
I don't believe it's all just crash related however, though msybe that would be lumped into "quits" by default.
But my argument is that it -feels like- my QP teams more frequently have quitters, while enemy teams more commonly stick games out and/or are pre-made groups. And that I suspect they build teams in QP on not just pure skill as the only metric, but players likelihoods of playing and finishing matches too.
That the system tries to avoid building a squad of "four highly likely to quit/idle players", but it WILL build games with 1 to 2 players who are likely to quit/idle with 1 to 2 players super unlikely to quit ot idle. That a team that is half semi decent non-quitters + half bots that aren't backfilled is a "good enough" quality of match for mixed, average skill pre-mades for their algorithm. But neither a team of "all quitters" or a team of all "skilled, no quit" players are in the "just right" range for these situations.
Like teams of mixed skill to "average" the skill between games, it feels like it does this to "average" the quality of matches overall on a macro scale.
No squad is going to want to play against constant QP quitters & idlers across the entire enemy teams, so mm tries to average out player propensity to quit/idle.
I've had 3 disconnects and 0 quits in almost 400 total games played, but a metric fuckload of my QP matches are just like this: Ive got quitters/idlers, while the other team does not. And very, very rarely does it feel like it happens in reverse, where it's the enemy team plagued with quitters.
So as a semi-decent, non-quitting solo queuer, this game seems to feed me less skilled, and likely to outright quit players in QP commonly. Because it knows I increase team odds of success AND I don't quit. So it "balances the equation ".
It's just frustrating.
In my next 50 QP matches, I'm going to track how often I get quitters/idles versus the enemy team so I can corroborate with evidence how this shit feels intuitively.
It's shitty, because about the only playlist settings/mode wise that I can stomach is Ranked but I'm constantly around 50-60 ms ping and matches are super high intensity. So my only option for comparable games with actually tolerable ping is in QP, but my matches in there always just feel terrible in terms of "fairness" for being placed on a team. Like sure, the end statlines might be "close", but it's frequently because I have to put in 40-50% of the team effort to get to that "fair" end game team statline. And I frankly don't find it fun and it just makes me not want to play period.
EDIT: After typing this, went to Ranked and had my worst player quit. Looks like I just had my first quit! I'm not tolerating this shit anymore, sorry.
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I'd suggest to record the bits where you think you should've killed a guy with a BR. I had legit so many moments where I thought I surely had a guy only to get completely destroyed for no apparent reason. In my mind I was flawless so I decided to record these moments to prove the game was fucking with me. Turned out I was just missing the headshots on the final one.
Helps to set the record straight and displaces your frustration.
Yeah, I would love to see the H5 Pistol dropped into this game. I didn't like the smart scope ADS zoom, but functionally it would be great to have back.
Really needs a classic zoom, beefier sounds, and like I said earlier, the explosive shot registration though.
It looks like you actually DID boop the guy closest to you at the end (the guy who dropped from above last), and the survivor was the one you were in a firefight with
Wild, i just checked and literally have the same... HIGH FIVE!
this is a completely unnecessary experiment.
the system is absolutely NOT tracking propensity to quit and using it as a means to balance matches. You can be sure of this because their is absolutely no value in doing so for anyone. Not you, not your opponent, not 343. No one benefits.
What's the MO? What's the benefit of intentionally sticking people who want to play and enjoy the game with people who want to ruin the experience for others?
You have such a grudge against the concept of SBMM that you perform Olympic levels of mental gymnastics to blame the concept for your discontent.
you have a fundamental misunderstanding of "balancing the equation". It's not about manipulating outcomes. It's about using inferences about skill to predict outcomes. When predictions are incorrect, they don't tip the scales to make their desired outcome actual. The reassess their inferences and try to make better predictions going forward.
im sorry but you have an unhealthy obsession with this concept and I bet it's effecting your enjoyment, because you go into every match assuming that your about to get screwed by an algorithm.
the game has technical issues and design issues that negatively influence player behavior. . And that's what you are experiencing.
Hmm yeah, I think you're right. Seems like the enemy closest to me phased through the other guy, probably the collision stuff people are talking about. Just not sure why they both didn't get pushed off near the end since they were basically right next to each other. I'm still happy with getting 3 out of 4 though lol.
I've seen that happen with the repulsor too 😕
Really sucks when things don't work as expected. I think of it the same way as I do back smacks that don't register or melees that don't get a lunge. An artifact of however synchronization works against the server. It's so frustrating when it happens. Most of the time I start moving onto my next action assuming my expectation has been fulfilled and I'm fragged immediately because my game view is different from whoever I was targeting.
I was enjoying it alot but ever since the event started all the tryhards are flocking to it which takes the casual fun bit out of it.
So in that match that made me rage earlier in QP, the two people that quit have an almost (206 play/17 quit) + (238 play/23 quit) ~10% rate of quitting, judging solely by total played versus DNF. They quit or disconnect games at a rate of almost 1 out of 10. Obv there's no way to track idling via API reporters.
The rate of my other teammate who stuck it out is also at about 10% quit/DC rate, while mine is at 5 DNF's out of 420 matches. So about a 1% DNF rate in comparison.
In my last 25 QP matches, I've had EIGHT matches on teams where I had bot players. Looking historically and not tracking it in the moment, it's hard to fully piece the picture of the quits/DC's/idles. But just looking purely at "which matches did I have bots", that's the number.
So a roughly 30% rate of having quitters/bot backfills or myself being a late JIP to replace a quitter is not exactly a very fun/enjoyable time in Quick Play.
Could it simply be all like you say? Sure.
But I do suspect there's more to it than just "predictive skill" in determining matches, at least in QP. And that it's not just simply "the game isn't working/incentives naturally encourage people to quit", either.
Yeah I've noticed that a bit, definitely not as easy when the first tenrai event came around
If that's how it was built, the opposition team would also be impacted...
I don't know how so many of SBMM haters think these systems ONLY affect them and their team, but that's simply not the case.
And I seem to have the worst luck with teammates, too. In one match I went 28 - 5 and we still lost, lmao.
I'm arguing that as a semi-skilled, non quitting solo queue player, my odds of being on a team with quitters/bots in QP is HIGH.
I just pointed out that I have a 1 in 3 chance, judging by my last 25 games, of being put in a game with these conditions in Quick Play.
Is that the average odds of ALL PLAYERS playing in QP of having a bot game? 30%? Or is it extra high for a solo who is skilled and unlikely to quit to get matched with players lesser skilled and likely to quit? To where 30% of matches played over 25 games is going to have bot teammates resulting in loss.
If the average of all players playing in Quick Play is to have 1 in 3 games have quitters, that's not very good now is it. 1 in 10 might be an acceptable rate. That would roughly translate to ALL Quick Play matches having quits in 1 of 3 games.
If this is simply the cost of being a solo player who's decent at the game and doesn't quit, then I'll either deal with it or I wont. And the more it happens, the more likely I and others like me aren't going to just tolerate it/roll over and say "welp".
Continued EDIT: That if it truly was 1/3 rate of quits across the board in QP, I suspect we'd see way more complaints about quitters/bots than we do. It'd be 30% of matches impacted, after all. But that suspiciously, most of the people who get hosed by the quitters and subsequently bots in QP in this game judging by people on here at least, is players around here who are like me: semi (or majorly) skilled, dedicated players playing solo in QP.
That the matchmaking system has other determinations beyond just simple skill calculations when building QP matches, and all the determinations are in service to fast matches first and "end game team statlines" second.
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There are plenty of solo players who are skilled and don't quit who don't run into this as much as you do.
none of these numbers mean anything beyond "people that quit a lot exist within the matchmaking pool."
look around. People all over the spectrum complain about the high volume of quitters. The progression system literally rewards quitting. There's no way to avoid gametypes you don't like. The game crashes a lot of PC. The problem is that lots of people disconnect for 1 reason or another. Not that the system targets specific types of players to match quitters with.
I'd love for you to explain what you think the nefarious benefit of systemically matching good sports with quitters would be.
How do the Fracture: Tenrai challenges work? Can you only complete so many a day? I guess I'm a little confused as I completed the two in my weekly challenges and was rewarded for completing them but they both still show in my weekly challenges list with 0 progression...
When you complete a Tenrai challenge, you get a level in the event pass. What you're seeing are probably dupes of the same challenge, a lot of them are simply to complete fiesta matches or to kill players in fiesta, so the ones you completed were replaced with the same ones. There's no daily limit here, they've all been fed into your weekly challenge pool and rotate in as challenges complete.
The benefit is that matches aren't just totally full quit fests? I already said that.
That teams of 50% no quitters + 50% quitters replaced by bots is a better "result" than just 100% quitters replaced with bots. That if a game has a full team quit out, that's a total dud of a game on all sides.
That the people who aren't likely to quit, naturally, are going to stick around through the quitters, which in turn increases their odds of being paired up with said likely quitters. That those who quit subsequently reduce their odds of matchmaking pairing them up with full squads of "high odds" quitters, because if it constantly built games with teams of high odds quitters, there'd be just tons and tons of non-functional, on any level, games being built. That while 50/50 or 25/75 bot-to-player games aren't great for either team, it is at least a better "match" than games with no quitters against full quit teams. That is my argument, and I think it's pretty obvious?
Just like it's obvious that the system pairs lower skilled players with higher skilled players to average out the team's odds of victory depending on the overall matchmade circumstances. It feels like it does the same determinations against likelihoods to quit or idle, because like skill, those variables also play a big role in determining the quality and outcome of a match. A team with quitters is obviously much less likely to win than a team without quitters, just like a team with all highly skilled players is much more likely to win against a team full of lesser skilled players. That in its determinations in QP, it analyzes a cocktail of things beyond just "skill".
That they aren't going to do a "quitters queue" like people suggest, because isolating the quitters away from the non-quitters/dedicated players, is just going to slow down their algorithm to build matches fast for playlists like Quick Play. Because having a mix of "not likely" and "likely" to quit players helps keep matchmaking speedy and plays into the averaging of skill to build games as efficiently as possible.
Yeah, some people like me are going to have worse feeling games more frequently, but that's an acceptable situation for them because they correctly know that people like me may bitch, but we'll still be inclined to come back regardless. Whereas quitters are far more fickle and likely to quit and never come back, so they have "poor matchmade team quality" at a lesser rate than players like myself, in an attempt to keep them around and placated.
Why wouldn't they look at "quit/idle odds" when building matches? And honestly, propensity to quit/idle IS also reflective of skill IMHO.
Thanks. The issue was my Challenges list was not properly updating. Quitting the game and restarting brought up the new, current list of challenges. I've really been enjoying the MP in this... its perfect to for taking quick breaks from work and playing a few matches. Can't wait until they work out some of the bugs though.
How the fuck does ranking work?
I played the ten matches in the open queue, and somehow was given a "Platinum" rank.
I am terrible at the game. No joke, if I complete a match dying twice as much as I get kills... that's shockingly good for me. So how the Hell did I end up in what I'm reasonably sure isn't the worst rank?
I played the ten matches in the open queue, and somehow was given a "Platinum" rank.
I am terrible at the game. No joke, if I complete a match dying twice as much as I get kills... that's shockingly good for me. So how the Hell did I end up in what I'm reasonably sure isn't the worst rank?
And done with this week's event and the weekly challenges.
It's weird in grind GAAS games, where you're actually super happy when you're done with something and you have the time off from this game for the next 7 days.
It's weird in grind GAAS games, where you're actually super happy when you're done with something and you have the time off from this game for the next 7 days.
I'm sorry… You have to understand how ridiculous this is. Right?
how can you believe that a quickly made match with some quitters and some players that suffer through it, is more desirable than a match than matches where every one sticks around? Without a shadow of a doubt, putting non-quitters into matches with non-quitters is the best result. And a match that ends due to quits is no less desireable than a match that good sports suffer through. There is no benefit to a ruined match lasting until the end.
there's literally no benefit to sticking good sports with quitters whatsoever. A quickly made match that no one enjoys isn't of value to the system whatsoever.
you know what actually screws up the algorithm? People quitting… because it produces garbage outcomes data and makes it less likely players are enjoying themselves. That's why quitters get bans.
A game where back fill works is infinitely more preferable. A dud of a game that ends instantly because everyone quits is better than having multiple people suffer through a match ruined by quitters- as the effected players will get back into the matchmaking and hopefully into a more enjoyable match.
your conspiracy theory just doesn't make any sense
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It definitely ranges from pretty fun to awful, which makes sense since it's all random. Sometimes i'll have a great game where my loadouts are awesome, and others it seems like it's Disruptor and Plasma Pistol everytime.
It's great to have really dumb goofy modes, but Fiesta has never been my favorite. Let's hope we can get Grifball and Infection in here soon.
oof fucking horrid luck with cheaters tonight. 4 games played, 3/4 with at least one wall hacker. I think they might be trying to get crafty with it too. In theater on the last one I played the person went 3 minutes in the game acting like a normal player, then very obviously started tracking everyone through walls. The funny part is they still lost and still didn't score very well lol. It was just obvious they were cheating during the game
Let's get Big Team Battle working before we start going down that road
Don't bother, dude was claiming even more insane shit about Apex's SBMM in that OT.
Lol like Apex, I'll probably quit this game sooner or later thanks to how it builds matches for me. And I guarantee I'm not the only one.
I haven't played Apex in a year and have zero desire to ever go back, and I will specifically say it's because of that game's matchmaking 100%.
Of course all this shit's conspiratorial, there's no way to prove any of it by not being inside the developers walls. All players can do is go off of how things feel or track matches via API reporters and even then it can't fully prove anything.
Defenders will just handwave it all away as conspiratorial thinking because they can't be argued against from the players position so they are by default "right", and players like me who just feel the bullshit happening will just leave the game after our tolerance for the bullshit has hit the limit.
You all can dog pile and defend this shit all you want.
The more I play this game and all other modern games just like this, this tweet is exactly how I feel. But nah, surely I'm just overreacting!
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