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Halo developer speaks their mind - "I don't get why <dev> didn't do <thing>?"
- Thread starter Ryan.
- Start date
It's a solid thread. They're right, the "devs should just do X" thing is fairly lazy.
I work in a technical field and believe me when I say that changes to the product, especially midstream, are *never* as easy as the client thinks they are. With gamers having a toxicity problem, I definitely get where they're coming from.
I work in a technical field and believe me when I say that changes to the product, especially midstream, are *never* as easy as the client thinks they are. With gamers having a toxicity problem, I definitely get where they're coming from.
Few things:
- He's right.
- He's done more extensive, foundational work for the Halo PC modding community, gratis, than almost anyone you can name... and gets little credit or credibility within the wider Halo community for it.
- He knows what he's talking about from both sides of the fence intimately. He's seen this mess from the outside before he was ever on the inside. More than most, he's earned a degree of license to shoot straight with the obnoxious fandom set without gamers falling over and clutching their ankles over it. He didn't get into this business by tightening a tie and kissing you on the forehead. Relax!
Part of the problem is a lot of modern games are built from the ground up to be simple and quick to patch. So dota 2 ships patches every day and fixes small issues immediately.
So that's what you're competing with when your modern PC port of a different old PC port based on an old Xbox game ships slightly buggy and people are expecting stuff to be fixed within days. In reality it's obviously much harder than that and if you fix the shields not showing up on elites the game might just crash or introduce ten other bugs.
Or what is probably most directly behind this for context is the Reach audio which sounds like you're playing over the phone in a cave for months with no fix in sight. They're being transparent and talking about the process but again your competitors (other games) don't generally have these issues (or course some do) and people aren't used to this sort of thing in 2020.
So that's what you're competing with when your modern PC port of a different old PC port based on an old Xbox game ships slightly buggy and people are expecting stuff to be fixed within days. In reality it's obviously much harder than that and if you fix the shields not showing up on elites the game might just crash or introduce ten other bugs.
Or what is probably most directly behind this for context is the Reach audio which sounds like you're playing over the phone in a cave for months with no fix in sight. They're being transparent and talking about the process but again your competitors (other games) don't generally have these issues (or course some do) and people aren't used to this sort of thing in 2020.
Glad people speak out against this
it's been too longthat consumers can be absolute little shits. Devs are people too, not perfect machines
it's been too longthat consumers can be absolute little shits. Devs are people too, not perfect machines
What about the opposite where "I don't get why dev did thing?" Like in Halo 5, the Spartan Abilities actually hinder and limit movement if you compare it to other titles. Why?
I'm hoping the intent isn't "never criticize anything a dev does ever" but more "don't act like doing something is easy and insult us by calling us lazy."
The tweets in the OP are pretty whiny and immature IMO
Listen up KIDDOS! When you get into the REAL WORLD, you have to deal with these things called PROJECT MANAGERS. Ever heard of em? Probably not. There's also design docs. It's like what you do with your crayons but FOR REAL. You think you have a good idea? lol, think again, you're stupid because you didn' t even create a test plan.
His condescending tone describing every corporate job ever, including mine, ain't gonna make me stop asking why game developers do or don't do certain things.
For example, I still don't know why DICE decided to totally fuck up BFV's TTK, TWICE. I guess I'm not allowed to say that until I write a "don't fuck up the TTK" design document
Listen up KIDDOS! When you get into the REAL WORLD, you have to deal with these things called PROJECT MANAGERS. Ever heard of em? Probably not. There's also design docs. It's like what you do with your crayons but FOR REAL. You think you have a good idea? lol, think again, you're stupid because you didn' t even create a test plan.
His condescending tone describing every corporate job ever, including mine, ain't gonna make me stop asking why game developers do or don't do certain things.
For example, I still don't know why DICE decided to totally fuck up BFV's TTK, TWICE. I guess I'm not allowed to say that until I write a "don't fuck up the TTK" design document
You don't have to be an auto mechanic to know when you've been sold a lemon, and most consumers don't actually care about the reasons why the car ended up being a lemon.
it's ok to have issues with something you paid retail for. You don't have to be a dick about it though.
followed the instructions, it just summoned a kandarian demon. still no battery ffs
This is nightmare fuel. What phone is that??
By quick googling (I don't play nor follow the game), they actually have explained the changes. There's community managers talking to the players in Reddit and in official forums. Check those out. They aren't going to call you personally.
Certainly a good thing YOUR tone wasn't condescending or it may have just proved his point even more and made you look foolish.
Right now yeah you are. That was explained 5 years ago and it was confirmed by 343i that Halo Infinite will have splitscreen.
"I don't get why/how" is one of the most obnoxious things. It's stupid as far as back seating someone else's profession, and it's just as dumb when people act mega fucking dense like it is so difficult for them to grasp what people like about a thing.
That and "is it just me" people are the fucking worst.
That and "is it just me" people are the fucking worst.
What about those of us who are also software developers? Do we get a license to complain then?
Also, hearing this come from software developers is always a little weird considering how that field is notorious for complaining and shitting on others work. I feel like software developers are constantly ranting about different programming styles, libraries, etc.
This person has obviously cracked, but it is absolutely possible to come out with statements as vague as 'Why didn't they do X'.
It's no different to calling out crap gameplay systems in reviews.
It's no different to calling out crap gameplay systems in reviews.
So thats why Nintendo didn't put cloud saves in all their games and some fighters don't feature rollback code. Enlightening.
Thanks man. A game launching next gen is gonna have a feature we had as basic.
GG.
It's almost like game development with old tech and trying to hit 60fps standard all within a specific timeframe can lead to features being cut.
I didn't give enough context for my point. I do play bfv and I do follow it closely. I have read every patch notes post, community broadcast, etc. The explanations they have given are self-contradictory, unsubstantiated, and ultimately bad. Many people who actually play and follow the game have given extensive and substantive critiques of dice's "explanations". Jackfrags for example had a very good video about why the explanation for the most recent TTK changes made no sense.
I have engaged with the community managers and some devs on the reddit. In general, feedback is politely accepted and fed into a black box which produces baffling changes to the game that nobody wanted and nobody likes (auto spotting, direction arrows on hud, etc etc).
The fact that they completely reverted the first TTK change and near completely reverted the most recent one is a decent argument against the "sit down, let the professionals handle this" tone of the tweets in the OP.
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OP
OP
No.
Given you work in the field you can convey your criticism without starting with "I don't get why", given that working in said field, gives you at least a vague understanding of why someone does x.
Nothing about the tweet is against criticism, but against a specifically worded one, a pet peeve.
Apologies, I was trying to be more insulting than condescending
This has happened several times in the past. Telling people on the internet to stop yelling at you doesn't do anything.
Dunno why we try and measure how toxic a particular franchise's community is. The Halo community is incredibly small compared to something like the League of Legends community, or most popular modern online game communities for that matter.
Nah, that's just not true.
Dunno why we try and measure how toxic a particular franchise's community is. The Halo community is incredibly small compared to something like the League of Legends community, or most popular modern online game communities for that matter.
I'm late posting, but I get what he is saying. There are things that you, as an avid player can see and inquire about, without being a complete jerk about it. Often times I think the criticism comes of harsher than intended because of general ignorance of what goes into a game. There are some things that just slip through the cracks (sometimes intentional) that criticism is warranted and can be used to get a change to the product. This is old, but one of the issues of the beginning of the HD Era was font sizes being too darn small. Something like that i can see being criticized, and rightfully so.
I think people need to understand the complexity, priorities, time, design and oversight in game development better before venting and don't uee harsh words,don't badger, don't be hateful but I don't think there is much wrong with just ideally chatting, why didn't they do this and that, I hope they do this, could be better as long as it's polite general chat. It's no doubt frustrating, draining and sometimes soul destroying reading comments from people who don't know what their talking about but people are just that, they don't know the complexity etc. and are perhaps not able to convey or trying their best to get their view across in great detail, it's general simple chat that shouldn't be taking to heart that is hopefully as polite and tame as possible even if it's lacking in technical know how.
User Banned (5 Days) - Justifying Harassment and Lazy Dev Rhetoric
I want quality products, not corporate excuses. Couldn't care less. It just exposes the company's view on putting out good products.
I'm sick of this feel sorry for my company BS. Learn from your failures and get better, the way it's supposed to be. Quality should be going up, not warping back in time.
I'm not supporting attacking devs, but calling out shoddy products should never go away.
I'm sick of this feel sorry for my company BS. Learn from your failures and get better, the way it's supposed to be. Quality should be going up, not warping back in time.
I'm not supporting attacking devs, but calling out shoddy products should never go away.