Halo developer speaks their mind - "I don't get why <dev> didn't do <thing>?"

[Huey]

Good. There are human beings behind these games that have poured years of sweat and tears into these projects. Even here, where we're lucky enough to have a lot of developers, I often see them having to defend themselves against entitled comments.

That said, it's also important for developers to realize there is significant representation bias, in that the people who are happy with the game and enjoying far too infrequently let developers know that. I think everybody should make an effort to be positive directly to devs when they feel positively. I'm sure that makes the negativity more easy to handle. That's obviously in addition to people learning to be constructive and non-toxic with their feedback.

Someone doesn't like feedback.

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That is a hell of a take on what he said. Maybe re-read the tweets and try again.

 

[Castor Archer]

He's right about a lot of it and the abusive comments from gamers are always unwarranted, they act like it's the end of the world if their game doesn't have <thing>.

On the other hand, I don't think it's too much to ask that a re-release of a game from 20 years ago matches the features and isn't missing visual and audio effects.

 

[Servbot24]

sounds like dude had a bad day at work that day

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More like what devs have to endure every single day of the year

Someone doesn't like feedback.

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You've already been called out but I'll just echo that this is a really bad post.

On the other hand, I don't think it's too much to ask that a re-release of a game from 20 years ago matches the features and isn't missing visual and audio effects.

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In these cases the question should not be "why didn't dev do thing" but "why didn't publisher give more budget for dev to do thing".

 

[QuigleyMcShine]

I work in software and it's amazing how when I talk to my colleagues about video games even they seem to forget everything they know about software development.

 

[Phellps]

He's not wrong. Let the guy vent, clearly he's had his fair share of backseat devs.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

I think everybody should make an effort to be positive directly to devs when they feel positively. I'm sure that makes the negativity more easy to handle.

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Oh this would help immensely.

Back when I was a reviewer, I rarely received any positive feedback. After several years it took a massive toll on my wellbeing.

 

[Arx]

He is just trying to stir up some controversy to distract us from the fact that 343 has ruined Halo with their design decision like sprint, sprint, armor abilities and sprint. Ruined. Sacrificed on the altar of Call of Duty.

 

[Kittens McMittens]

You don't even have to know anything about games as such to understand why they have significant problems. Just get a brief understanding of software development lifecycles.

The hardest part about developing any kind of software is changing requirements. If you know exactly what you want to do, what the software is supposed to achieve, and are confident the requirements are set in stone then you're good. You can go off and make the software and be confident it will be what was required. When requirements change though, it can result in significant problems.

If a new requirement comes along that changes a fundamental assumption about how your software will be designed or how your data is modelled, that can be a massive problem. There are two ways to deal with this: don't accept any significant changes in requirements (lots of big commercial projects work like this) or use an iterative approach.

Obviously games are all about changing requirements - an initial idea might not be fun, or new ideas for new systems will come about during development. Almost nobody makes games by coming up with a massive list of systems and feature requirements along with validations upfront. So, games need some kind of iterative methodology. This means developing some kind of minimum viable product.

In some senses this is much harder, because you don't really know upfront what exactly you are making. This means you need very experienced developers who can make good bets, and are good at assessing the technical risk of any new feature or proposal.

It's worth considering how an iterative approach is different to just 'code and fix'. It's not just about taking ideas or feature suggestions and implementing them. It's about assessing the risk of those suggestions and understanding how they might be integrated into the current project. In that sense, it's very difficult for anyone outside a project to understand why an obvious suggestion might be hard to implement in practice. If the lifecycle doesn't have that reflective element and development is in practice 'code and fix', then the code will be a house of cards. It will be incredibly hard to maintain and fail in all sorts of horrible ways.

Basically, you don't need to know anything about how any particular studio is operating. If you just assume they are doing iterative software development you can understand the kinds of problems they must be facing. Most user facing software uses some kind of iterative approach, but games experience all the pitfalls acutely due to the scale of requirements change.

 

[Snake Eater]

Gamers seem to think spending 1000 hours playing a game means you can also develop said game

 

[Deleted member 40853]

Well it's definitely true. People really have no concept of how software development works, they think it's just a couple of guys in a room hacking away at something until it's done. I've been in planning meetings for things that will take 6-9 months and someone will ask why we can't just get something done in like 3 weeks. In their mind it's so easy, just change the thing!! How long could it possibly take!?

I think especially now a lot of people figure that since they are good with a computer and play video games that they have a basic framework to understand how software development works, so devs should be eager to hear their "constructive criticism". Everything is much simpler in your head until you try to build it. Even in this thread you see a lot of people talking about "feedback", which generally just boils down to "why not just code game better?" It's not like the devs are just sitting around waiting for an idea. How would you feel if someone started telling you what you should be doing at world, and when you told them are a professional who knows what the job requires better than you do, they got indignant and said it's just feedback? It's annoying. People also dramatically overestimate how much say the developers have in the direction/content of the thing they are creating. Save the feedback about how the game should be different for the marketed.

Game development is so thankless, I have no idea why anyone does it. I'll just continue making enterprise applications for more money, half the hours, 1/10th the pressure, and no fanboys telling me how to do my job.

 

[JonesiiiFromtheMoon]

Yes, it's always up to the professional to "act professional." You've hit on the obvious here. And if you want people to act like decent human beings towards you, I suggest calling them ignorant little shits it's not the way to help that cause.

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So are you supposed to live life being polite to people who undermine you, send you threats, and stalk you just to keep up a professional image?Foh

 

[Caeda]

followed the instructions, it just summoned a kandarian demon. still no battery ffs

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did you do it on high? might've been too much power

 

[SlothmanAllen]

Yup. Just because something looks simple doesn't mean it is and that goes for any business process. Even if it ends up being easy to implement, it could be out of scope, or their could be other potential issues they are attempting to avoid, etc, etc.

 

[Fularu]

Well, sometimes player complain about bullshit and are ignorant....

but sometimes it's legit criticism and tons of modder do the <thing> in like a day

he's not wrong, but it doesn't mean it will stop when it's warranted

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Citation needed. And no, that one lone example from Capcom's SFV netcode isn't enough

 

[Deleted member 40853]

I'm gonna go against the grain here and say that devs aren't and should never be shielded from criticism. Obviously any criticisms should be directed in a constructive manner, but as a consumer who spends my hard earned cash on your product, I have every right to criticize something I pay for whether I'm an expert in game dev or not.

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The thing is, this is not the dev's product. It's the company's. People always act like a development team is given a concept, money, and told to go make magic. This guy is just an employee, I guarantee you he has little or zero say in the direction MCC, what features are going to be worked on, what problems are going to be ignored, and what the priority for these tasks are. Management decides what they want the game to look like, they come up with a reasonable roadmap and timeline with the development team, and then the development team spends probably multiple years working on that roadmap and whatever else inevitably evolves out of it. If you don't like the product you paid for, direct that towards the people who actually call the shots and own the product, not some guy who is just getting paid to do a day job.

 

[Cactuar]

So are you supposed to live life being polite to people who undermine you, send you threats, and stalk you just to keep up a professional image?Foh

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Threats? What OP are you reading? So now this developer has gone from calling people who say "I don't get why <dev> didn't do <thing>" ignorant little shits to all of a sudden being undermined, stalked and having threats made against him? Sounds to me like you're making up a story in your head that has nothing to do with the one told in the OP. Foh

 

[Absolute]

I'd get fired for writing something like that directed at customers so I hope he makes the most of that privilege.

 

[Hibiki]

Lol nice, I like this guy. He's not wrong....

 

[Lentic]

I get where he's coming from, but all people ignorantly complain about a lot of things. That's just kind of the way it is. If everyone took the work it takes to make something into consideration all the time, no one would ever complain about anything.

 

[Angst]

As a consumer if i dont like product I can complain about product.

But i understand how he feels.

 

[JigglesBunny]

I mean he's not wrong. But this thread will be full of people either calling him unprofessional or getting into "lazy devs" retorts before long.

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This right here. He's right on. Except for DICE... they need to listen.

 

[Tiny Chihuahueño]

He isn't wrong but isn't totally right either. If we talk about movies:

"WHY DIDNT THEY MAKE SONIC LOOK GOOD IN THE MOVIE IN THE FIRST PLACE"

Is a question that thousands of people all over the world mad at some point. No need for us to win an Oscar to understand the original design was a nightmare and should have not be okayed.

Again, I get what's he's saying. I also get that sometimes devs make mistakes or don't have the best ideas too, and no ones is calling them lazy for it -at least not me-

 

[Kinthey]

Can I complain about stuff that was in the game because the warden was shit and nobody should defend that.

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Yeah, I mean on the one hand I totally get it. Being barraged with ignorant takes must be exhausting as hell, but on the other hand it gets close to that "You can't critique me unless you're an expert" fallacy. You don't need to be a chicken to tell that an egg is rotten.

But like I said, I also get his anger as it must just be exhausting.

 

[JonesiiiFromtheMoon]

Threats? What OP are you reading? So now this developer has gone from calling people who say "I don't get why <dev> didn't do <thing>" ignorant little shits to all of a sudden being undermined, stalked and having threats made against him? Sounds to me like you're making up a story in your head that has nothing to do with the one told in the OP. Foh

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I'm talkin bout situations all too common with being a game dev. How gamers treat them and how they are expected to "stay professional " even when the audience can be hostile. Foh

 

[Deleted member 23475]

sounds like dude had a bad day at work that day

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Just this honestly!
And the internet (more so Twitter) is the worst place to chill out unfortunately.

 

[Deleted member 17643]

I understand what he's saying but at the same time I don't fucking get why Apex Legends has inconsistent sound and super low tickrate servers after being out for more than a year.

 

[Cactuar]

I'm talkin bout situations all too common with being a game dev. How gamers treat them and how they are expected to "stay professional " even when the audience can be hostile. Foh

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I'm talking about the story presented by the developer in the OP and the title of this thread. If you have information about a developer being undermined, stalked and threatened perhaps you should make a new thread and share that information as I'm sure that would garner interest. Foh

 

[Deleted member 30935]

For me, it's whenever I hear the "it would be easy" or "devs are lazy" type comments that I get irritated. Critique all day, every day; it's what makes games better. But the second you start to assume how much work something would take when you have no idea to do what you're asking for in the first place, it drives me absolutely crazy.

As a graphic designer/artist, I deal with this type of thing a lot. Anytime a client says some variation of "and do this, it should be easy," I immediately care less about whatever the project is.

 

[K' Dash]

People who aren't devs don't understand anything about development and should just shut up instead of trying to talk back to an expert in that field.

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People talking shit about subjects they don't know anything about is part for the course everywhere.

 

[ScrewyAurum]

He is talking about wrestling but it very easily applies to gaming

 

[Zeta Ori]

ITT we will see how many people can mistake this person venting about "fans" with no background in development telling them how to do their jobs better, with this person telling people not to criticize Halo in any way, shape, or form as if those two things are even close to being the same.

Bonus points if "unprofessional" pops up in the comment.

Spoiler

Agree with everything said in the tweets although I don't work in game development myself. People are quick to devalue, if not downright insult your work if they think they could/would do it better despite having only base knowledge on the subject.

 

[Tunichtgut]

The person is not wrong, and more people need to do this.

 

[nekkid]

Well, sometimes player complain about bullshit and are ignorant....

but sometimes it's legit criticism and tons of modder do the <thing> in like a day

he's not wrong, but it doesn't mean it will stop when it's warranted

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Then as the man says, be prepared to back it up.

But that view of "well modders do it easily with only one guy for free" needs to die. It's so ill-informed.

 

[HellofaMouse]

cease all criticism right now!!!

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

People don't understand each others jobs in general. Always be kind and ask questions rather than assuming you know what's going on behind the scenes.

 

[HardTimesFamilyPride]

People don't understand each others jobs in general. Always be kind and ask questions rather than assuming you know what's going on behind the scenes.

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BuT I aM a CoNsUmEr It'S mY JoB tO sHiT oN tHiNgS i DoNt LiKe

 

[killerrin]

As a software developer I see it a lot.

You have stuff which sounds easy thats actually not. Stuff that sounds hard that is actually just two clicks on the keyboard, and stuff that should be easy but is hard because of past decisions that were made in reguards to the codebase, and the skillsets that were involved in coding those decisions into the application. There is also the stuff that is literally impossible with our level of technology or funding... but thats another story altogether

That second-last part is key. Because on its own a feature may be simple. But Software is a complex beast involving multiple features all tied together. With one change having the potential to drastically effect something elsewhere. So you have to be mindful that each codebase is different with its own levels of complexities that may hamper development of certain features. And that is before you get into the issue of budgets, timelines, skillsets and knowledge of the developers involved.

Developers generally don't like leaving features out (who would?). In ideal worlds we want to put the world into our appliactions. But we're limited by time, money, manpower and knowledge of how to even do the task. If you have somebody who knows how to to XY and Z... but you ask them for W. They need to learn how to do W first, and when you dont have unlimited time and budget. Things get prioritized. And as a result if only a small team knows W, then you have to wait for that team to do W first or convince management that W is so important that you should take time off your tasks to learn W instead.

 

[Piccoro]

He is right, and those posts should be pinned atop many VG websites and forums...

 

[EVIL]

Well, sometimes player complain about bullshit and are ignorant....

but sometimes it's legit criticism and tons of modder do the <thing> in like a day

he's not wrong, but it doesn't mean it will stop when it's warranted

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Modders hack things quick and dirty to achieve results with limited resources, something that would never hold up in full blown development within a large programming force for multiple systems with multiple dependencies, there is a huge difference.
There are plenty of ways for consumers to criticize work. you can for example not buy the product, that is one. or leave a negative review, that is another. but in no way is it warranted to call out devs personally.

 

[StudioTan]

He is talking about wrestling but it very easily applies to gaming

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This is really well explained and articulated and yes it applies to gaming as well.

 

[ThreepQuest64]

I don't get why Codemasters didn't include the 75% race distance option after F1 2011 and only offered 25%, 50% and 100% ever since. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The thing what they don't get is that people expresses their concerns and desires with such statements; they need to look beyond mere semantics. Of course many are gAmErS and hence don't express it in the healthiest way but in the end it's a convoluted way of voicing your opinion. So the next time someone says "I don't get why they didn't include crafting" see it as "this dude wanted to have crafting in the game." Then you either explain yourself, depending on their tone or the interactivity with the community, why there isn't, or don't give a fuck, don't explain yourself and move on.

If I'd get beat up by every comment I see on the internet, especially by random people, I probably would already been institutionalized. Not saying you can't express your feelings about such statements. This shit, getting to much a hold of you, can be dangerous, though.

 

[Gearkeeper 8A]

This is why I interact less with some fanbases that are so abressive like the smash or halo ones, complaining in these fanbases is like legit the only thing they do sometimes.

 

[Shelbyville Milhouse]

I don't get developers who make bad games.
They should make good games instead

 

[AegonSnake]

Their first issue is engaging with the community. Games are art. It's THEIR vision, not the gamers. Engaging with gamers is what makes them entitled. If you dont like a game dont play it. Plain and simple.

This is a problem with games as a service. Imagine Da Vinci having to explain why Mona Lisa isnt a perfect 10 model.

 

[SageShinigami]

I'll be that guy.

I'm actually completely fine with developers expressing opinions like this. They deserve to get that frustration out.

But this thread? Man I don't wanna hear shit from you if the game sucks.

 

[TheEchosOfTheCyborg]

Then as the man says, be prepared to back it up.

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That itself can be a problem, like for example, for example with me, I can't play games with heavy use of motion blur, especially those that have no way of switching it off like the original Amnesia game which I just couldn't finish, however if asked "WELL BACK IT UP!!! I wouldn't be able to give a clear response because really it's because it hurts my eyes and gives me eye strain with minutes, I don't know the sciences behind, I just know what it does which should mean by your logic, I should shut up.

That a big danger when dismissing criticism because the audience isn't well versed with the exact terminology, I've seen this happen plenty of time on game forums. Tthey may not why or the logic behind the design choices, but they do how it affects them like say that sound effect causes them distress, or the subtitles are too small, or this control scheme isn't comfortable to play with. The may not the mechanics behind it, but they know how the end result affect them.

And that's just programming, writing can be worse for this especially if the subject matter in question is say sexual assault, violence, sexism or bad depiction of LGBTQ+ issues, hell how many times have we seen people get crapped on for criticising games for the latter two or get shut down by devs and gamers for discussing the political nature and themes of a game or even just saying X game is political?

Edit:

If you dont like a game dont play it. Plain and simple.

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Yeah no, this is going to the point of being unreasonable (and not to mention going into the rhetoric people use against critics and reviewers), their is a big difference saying you don't like something and harassment and being a arse who goes after devs, if you bought something, you every right to say your opinion on it positive or negative or somewhere in-between.

Telling people to just shut up isn't helpful, as a writer, one of the first things I was taught in University that just getting positive criticism and shutting down to negative is never helpful, whether that's from your peers, bosses or the audience because it can prevent growth, make you unable to see flaws in your work or help contribute to an overblown ego.

Again, devs shouldn't have to put up with being crapped on by gamers, especially for issues they may have had nothing to do with and no one should have to face death threats or emotional abuse, but just going "Anyone who didn't like this should just shut up" isn't the answer nor helpful.

 

[Cranster]

or maybe he read that post on era where someone called him and his colleagues 'clowns'.

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Meanwhile the mods do nothing about it and allow 343i devs to be belittled and insulted thereby feeding into that toxic behavior. ERA is just as bad and this thread proves it. You have posters concern trolling, you have users saying 343i do not communicate about their work when 343i are the most open to the fans regarding development than any other AAA studio. And then you have users who claim that 343i do not like any criticism when the OP clearly states that he is perfectly fine with constructive criticism and feedback.

 

[Kasey]

Read through the thread and seeing others post the exact same conclusion.

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Who?

You should not try to infer something from my post other than what I actually posted. It can come across as harassment.

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Report away if that's what you're threatening here. Just saying when you have single-minded dedication to console warring, it's not hard to notice.

 

[HardTimesFamilyPride]

That itself can be a problem, like for example, for example with me, I can't play games with heavy use of motion blur, especially those that have no way of switching it off like the original Amnesia game which I just couldn't finish, however if asked "WELL BACK IT UP!!! I wouldn't be able to give a clear response because really it's because it hurts my eyes and gives me eye strain with minutes, I don't know the sciences behind, I just know what it does which should mean by your logic, I should shut up.

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This is a particularly specific scenario where I don't think that statement applies. Motion blur causes you strain and hurts your eyes and that's honestly all that needs to be said about that from your perspective and I believe a dev being told that would be sympathetic to it. Might not be able to give you an option to turn it off due to any number of circumstances, but still would sympathize.

That's not the same as simply not liking a thing and calling out the devs to try and tell them how to do their job. Unless you're wording yourself in that manner instead of "This thing hurts my eyes and I just can't play your game if I can't turn it off".

 

[icecold1983]

Cant disagree with him. But people are too quick to call any criticism toxic. Calling a trash game trash is not toxic. Some studios also make such awful games/decisions that you dont need to be involved in the process to know its terrible. When you successfully manage to skim people out of their money selling them a lemon you shouldnt expect them to be too happy about it. Lets not act like the studios consistently shipping high quality products are constantly drowning in toxic trolling.