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Robin

Restless Insomniac
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,502
I'm curious about something as far as casting in these situations. Obviously the ideal person to play a trans character is a trans actor. That should always be the ideal. What about if the character spends a significant time in the film pre-transition however? Obviously this doesn't exclude you from using a trans actor necessarily. But, and I want to be clear here that this is coming from a cis man's perspective and I could be completely off, but from what I do know about the trans experience it seems a significant amount of time effectively dressed up as the other gender could be a serious trigger of dysphoria and could be a problem. What would be the ideal way to go about that situation? Have a casting call asking for trans actors but be very clear when sending out the casting call about what the role requires? I mean, actors take on uncomfortable roles all the time, I'm not saying that I think a trans actor is incapable of doing so, but it seems like a potentially damaging situation.

I'll also say that I would hope any such story was at the very least written by a trans writer, or at least co-written by one, because I can think of very few situations where this would be someone else's story to tell. I suppose there could be rare exceptions (off the top of my head, maybe a film about a spouse who finds out their spouse is trans, that's not inherently an invalid perspective to tell a story from) but even then having a co-writer who is trans will help to make sure the project feels fair to all involved. I would also think having a trans director would be the ideal as well. Maybe not to the point where I would say it should be required (just knowing the realities of financing in Hollywood, if a big name cis director can get a story from a trans writer, with a trans actor, made by attaching their name to it, that doesn't necessarily seem like a bad thing) but certainly its the ideal.

You pretty much answer your own question yourself, actors handle uncomfortable roles all the time. I say this not as an accusation as I understand you're trying to play out scenarios so that you can understand a concept but your hypothetical reminds me of men protecting women from "hard jobs". Transpeople are normal people and don't need to be protected from potential mental collapse or something like that, certainly not all or the majority of them at least. I think that fear of harm itself is a unwanted stereotype.

In the grand scheme of things, I don't think it should be necessary for every depiction of a transperson on screen to be consulted or created by a transperson, that's ridiculous and unsustainable and would do more to cut us out of the narrative than anything else. But, we're in baby-land right now and looking for ANY positive representation and currently have 0 ownership of our own voices, so it's moot to play out the hypothetical when we could be playing the game in front of us instead.
 

Mona

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
26,151

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Bing147

Member
Jun 13, 2018
3,689
You pretty much answer your own question yourself, actors handle uncomfortable roles all the time. I say this not as an accusation as I understand you're trying to play out scenarios so that you can understand a concept but your hypothetical reminds me of men protecting women from "hard jobs". Transpeople are normal people and don't need to be protected from potential mental collapse or something like that, certainly not all or the majority of them at least. I think that fear of harm itself is a unwanted stereotype.

In the grand scheme of things, I don't think it should be necessary for every depiction of a transperson on screen to be consulted or created by a transperson, that's ridiculous and unsustainable and would do more to cut us out of the narrative than anything else. But, we're in baby-land right now and looking for ANY positive representation and currently have 0 ownership of our own voices, so it's moot to play out the hypothetical when we could be playing the game in front of us instead.

Completely fair. I tend to look at most things through a viewpoint of harm reduction... and this feels like a very specific and personal harm. The kind I would try to shield anyone from. But I agree, if the actor feels comfortable with the role that should be their call.

I also want to clarify that when I talk about trans stories, I don't mean any story that has a trans person in it. I mean a story that is specifically about the experience of being trans, such as about transitioning for example. I'm not saying that can't play into a story from another perspective, though I do feel that you're better off working with people in that community to make sure it comes across authentically. I'm a writer and I've featured trans characters in several stories. I wasn't writing about their being trans though or the experience of that. My last book that I wrote the lead character was a lesbian. I am neither gay or a woman, but the story was a mystery/fantasy which wasn't about her being a lesbian, she just was. Obviously I don't ignore that aspect of the character, and I did consult women and lesbians on some points to try to make sure I was representing things well, but to me there's a big difference between having a character who is part of a group, and trying to tell that group's story about being a member of that group.
 

Osu 16 Bit

QA Lead at NetherRealm Studios
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,923
Chicago, IL
One of my favorite trans stories is a video game written by a cis man.
The MISSING: J.J. Macfield and the Island of Memories
. So I don't think much of the idea that only a trans writer should write about the trans experience. They just need to be educated, empathetic, and probably willing to consult.

Also to elaborate on the acting thing. Dysphoria is different for everyone, and comes in many forms, but a common one is for it to be tied to how you're seen by society. That's not entirely all but it's heavily the case for me. Like I have a deep fear and insecurity of not being seen as a woman. I would not want to go to the grocery store presenting male. However a movie role is totally different. Nobody on set would think of me as a man, it's clearly a role. So I'm pretty sure it'd be much easier than the grocery store.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Why the fuck are cis people still cast in trans roles in 2020? Get the fuck out with that shit.

Personally I thought Cloud Atlas was pretty nightmarish on all sorts of racial and gender fronts, so this is not a surprising perspective to hear from her.

Even though I have seen Cloud Atlas, until I read this post I had no clue about actors playing multiple characters of different races and even genders. What the fuck? What even is the point to have Halle Berry play this character?
cloudhbv9.jpg
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,100
Chesire, UK
If the Onion ran these quotes with the headline "Notorious TERF gives interview about starring role in new Trans* biopic!" I would think they were being a little too on the nose.

JFC.
 

Tagyhag

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,483
How are you in Hollywood, hearing about all the social problems going on in the country, minority representation being one of them, and still believe this is a good idea?

It doesn't matter if this was pitched a long time ago. This is when you would say "Yes, I see now it was a mistake to consider myself for the role, it should go to someone else".
 

Fancy Clown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,407
"it would require cutting off all my hair" wow what hardship! Sounds like she will totally understand exactly what it's like to be trans.
Fucking actors, man.
 

pizzabutt

Member
Apr 28, 2020
796
I'm probably being too generous, but perhaps the movie opens with the character being pre-transition and they use she/her in the opening? Unlikely I know, just tired of everyone being shit :/
If you're talking about someone pre-transition you still use their pronouns and name. You don't misgender/deadname them. You always use the correct pronouns/name unless it's a situation like the person is still closeted and asks you not to so you won't out them.
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
I'm willing to believe she was uneducated and uninformed and will hopefully try to be a better ally. Much better than ScarJo, who cried about how she was being bullied before finally pulling out.

As always, I do not recommend the replies.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,357
Whatever happened to the film ScarJo was going to play a trans individual in? Still shelved?
 

Deleted member 25606

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
8,973
Decent apology, none of that scarjo "I'm the victim of you meanie trans people" bullshit. Now if she puts her money where her mouth is I would love to have her as an ally. I might even be convinced to forgive her for Catwoman.
 

Pandora012

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,495
Her apology seem sincere, especially since she didn't make herself to be a victim.

Decent apology, none of that scarjo "I'm the victim of you meanie trans people" bullshit. Now if she puts her money where her mouth is I would love to have her as an ally. I might even be convinced to forgive her for Catwoman.
Don't get too hasty there, catwoman is one of those things that just can't be forgiven. Maybe forgotten tho.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,047
Good statement imo. I hope she absorbed a decent amount of educational material coming to it and explores her knowledge gap through that over doing the film.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,131
UK
Good response. Hopefully she puts her money where her mouth is to support trans actors to get that role and make sure the film is made in a producer role.
 

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,890
Thats a decent apology, I hope she learned from this. At the very least proper pronouns
 

kami_sama

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,998
Yeah, bad look in general, but it's even worse when she talked about him (the character) being a woman and using she, etc.
 

Luminish

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,508
Denver
Yeah, bad look in general, but it's even worse when she talked about him (the character) being a woman and using she, etc.
Yeah, there's at least an argument that she should take the role if it's the only way for the movie to be made or gain attention, but misgendering is simply ignorent at best. Suprised that wasn't what the apology was about.
 

Deleted member 5086

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,571
I'm glad she apologised and pulled out. Hopefully they hire a trans man for the role and don't just shelve the film.
 

Randam

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,878
Germany
good.
Really hope she tries to learn something about it.
Because boy was her initial statement a shit show and it seemed like she didn't know anything about the subject.
Her considering the role wasn't the worst offender. The way she talked about the character was really fucked up.

"it's a woman's story"
"it changes to a man"

Wtf..
 

The Hobo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,025
She only apologized for accepting the role. She didn't apologize for misgendering, which was the bigger issue.
 

Dervius

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,902
UK
The terminology in her original quotes seem to betray some fundamental misunderstandings about the trans community, and has been rightly criticised. The apology does at least appear to e sincere.

I'm probably being too generous, but perhaps the movie opens with the character being pre-transition and they use she/her in the opening? Unlikely I know, just tired of everyone being shit :/

On a related note, how on earth is this a one month ban? I've seen some far worse inflammatory comments recieve warnings or be outright ignored but this gets a full month ban?
 

Deleted member 5086

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,571
The terminology in her original quotes seem to betray some fundamental misunderstandings about the trans community, and has been rightly criticised. The apology does at least appear to e sincere.



On a related note, how on earth is this a one month ban? I've seen some far worse inflammatory comments recieve warnings or be outright ignored but this gets a full month ban?
You should read the subsequent posts. Infraction history is also taken into account.
 

GeoGonzo

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,327
Madrid, Spain
Glad to hear she came to her senses but that was one hell of an unforced error on some pretty basic stuff. Still, I guess this will probably be a teaching moment for other people too so overall this may end up being a positive thing after all.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,647
Brazil
Why it is always "I shall distance myself from this project as much as I could" like if you cared to tell the story you would have changed roles to a less important one so that the movie still has the "star power" attached =P