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denx

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,330
More than heavily invested in it, they basically have created the entire modern VR industry.

So, story time about Valve's VR hardware: they literally gave it away for free to Oculus. It's amazing how no big gaming publications have ever tried to investigate this story. Look at who left Valve for Oculus during the facebook buy out. The story goes like this: When John Carmack at Quakecon showed off "carmack's VR headset" (which was Palmer Luckey's duct tape prototype) Valve hit him up as they'd already been doing R&D on their own VR hardware with Michael Abrash for a couple of years. They had two teams working on what they considered the *Reality projects: One lead by Abrash, which became their VR division, and one lead by Jerri Elsworth, who was developing an AR solution. Valve decided to back their VR solution, and as such let Elsworth keep all of her valve-funded, valve-developed research and development and take it to her own company (which is amazing on its own).

But back to VR -- Valve hit up Luckey and Carmack and offered to share their solution because they flat out didn't want to enter the hardware market. They needed a big player to take their tech and run with it, so they could have a market to sell with. Valve basically defined modern VR. You can look at the list of features their early headset had, that Oculus cribbed. For example, the constellation tracking system of the rift? It came from Valve, valve was prototyping 10 different types of tracking solutions at the time. Their constellation system was the last one Oculus got to see before they split, which is why Vive uses the more advanced Lighthouse tracking where Oculus went with the older constellation tracking.

I tried their headset at Dev Days, where it was known as "The Valve Room." This was way, way before even the DK2 had been announced. They already had a dual screen, 1080p per eye VR headset with full roomscale tracking and asynchronous reprojection going. Like, 2 full years before Oculus released the DK2. The Oculus rift DK2 and CV1, to an enormous degree, looks like a commercial version of "The Valve Room"

So back to the story about Oculus: There was actually conflict at valve between VR team members over whether or not they should share their technology completely free with Oculus. Valve quite literally gave their tech to Oculus, no strings attached. When Mark Zuckerberg was shown a prototype at Oculus' office as a pitch for facebook to buy them out, they showed them the Valve room and not the DK2. Zuckerberg literally thought, when he bought oculus, that he bought valve's technology. When he learned that they didn't have the team, or the exact demo he tried, they tried to buy out valve, and when they couldn't, they tried to poach the VR team. Maybe I shouldn't share this stuff as it's really contentious, but those who stay told me that the people who left for big raises at Oculus, are the same people who had been arguing prior that Valve should give their tech away to oculus for free.

Anywho, Facebook's attempt to poach Valve's VR division actually didn't work, with the vast majority of the VR division staying and working to this day. They cross over into other R&D, as to "power" their VR technology, they had to simultaneously prop up technologies like dx2vk (in fact, their VR conference is WHERE they announced dx2vk, during their "use our free tools for gamedev" lecture), sdl2, etc.

Valve has the single most unrecouped R&D costs in the entire VR market. They literally charged absolutely nothing for their R&D.

Welp, I'd like to source my claims about Valve and Oculus to Alan Yates, the person behind lighthouse itself, but it looks like he deleted his account where he said some thing. Despite that, a few pictures of evidence:

m5nalPR.jpg


That's a leaked pic of Zuck's actual VR pitch, he's literally in the valve room. This is the same room Valve took users into one on one with Michael Abrash at Dev Days.

some direct quotes from him on the subject:
This was a great read, thanks. Kinda mindblowing Valve just gave away their tech to Oculus.
 

MPrice

Alt account
Banned
Oct 18, 2019
654
Understanding the impact they had on the industry at the time of their release will go a long way toward helping you understand why they're so well-liked. They're still solid games, but they both basically did things that had never really been done before (or to such an extent) at the time.
Yeah I doubt new comers can feel the impact. HL2 was decent graphics tech wise but I remember the ai and physics being the real stand out. It really was masterclass in game design for the time. I hope Valve still has that magic in them. Its all about how it plays and feels rather than looks for me. What made Half-life good seems to be completely at odds with where gaming is in general.
 
Last edited:

scitek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,146
I'm an enormous Half-Life fan. I've replayed the original countless times, and I used to replay Half-Life 2 and its two Episodes annually. I never, not once, got bored in a single playthrough. They still, to this day, represent what I feel is amongst the most delicate and intelligent level design in first person shooters, with an absolutely absurd degree of encounter and location variety seamlessly integrated into one another. I've never correlated time relative to expectations with Half-Life 2: Episode 3, and have never expected it to be anything other than more-of-the-same quality of its predecessors. Half-Life is one of my favourite franchises ever.

It's exciting to see Valve go back to the series, but I'm oddly emotionless about the whole thing. Precisely because Valve has demonstrated apathy to the kind of experiences the Half-Life series provided, shelving single player experiences for the last eight years. It's hard for me to get overly excited that the next chapter in this iconic franchise is;
1) Likely helmed by people who've lesser experience with the franchise, due to numerous key staff leaving (see: Marc Laidlaw, who wrote the entire saga, left, and reverted to twitter to fanfic Episode 3).
2) Is a side story, not even a continuation of the arc that has been left unresolved for twelve years.
3) Requires an upfront investment of thousands of dollars (in Australia) to play.

Don't get me wrong; seeing Valve even acknowledge Half-Life, let alone make anything within the franchise, has me intrigued. I'm also still firmly in the camp that VR is the future; I love the emergent technology and if I had the money to blow I'd happily, readily jump on a premium kit of Vive. I've used VR, and I fucking love it.

But man, I just don't know. Valve is not the company today that was making the games I loved over a decade ago. I'm 32. I was 20 when Half-Life 2: Episode 2 dropped. 24 for Portal 2. I hope Valve has the chops to deliver a rich, authentic Half-Life experience irrespective of staff who've moved on. I hope it's a thunderous demonstration of VR. But I can also totally appreciate why some people are apathetic.

I think the fact that all we have is a tweet for the moment deadens the announcement for me. Once I actually see what they've been working on, I'm sure I'll be a lot more excited.
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,038
Can't wait to see some more about it. Certainly an exciting announcement to be sure. Interesting to see what kind of PC and headset will be required.

I love my PSVR but I don't think that will help me here
 

Patison

Member
Oct 27, 2017
577
I hope that we will get to experience 7 Hour War in VR, even if it's just a small glimpse. And escape from US/Black Mesa (not sure if Alyx was there during the incident) to Eastern Europe... and the transition from regular world to HL2's dystopia...and building Dog...jesus, there's so much story to tell!
 

DoradoWinston

Member
Apr 9, 2019
6,335
I don't know who he is and I know a lot of people would react with "lol big nerd crying over videogames" but I find it AMAZING how videogames can mean so much to people. I love it. One of the most passionate industries I know.

Let's see what is coming up Thursday.
Unless im mistaking him for someone else he runs a Valve orientated channel and was one of the biggest people (tbh he is THE guy) talking about the Half Life vr game for months giving people details and information on development current and prior as he learned it. He also as usual recieved a lot of hate along the way for even talking about a VR Half Life game being a thing.


He has also talked about Left 4 Dead 3 in more recent videos if you are interested in it.
 

Vash63

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,681
More than heavily invested in it, they basically have created the entire modern VR industry.

So, story time about Valve's VR hardware: they literally gave it away for free to Oculus. It's amazing how no big gaming publications have ever tried to investigate this story. Look at who left Valve for Oculus during the facebook buy out. The story goes like this: When John Carmack at Quakecon showed off "carmack's VR headset" (which was Palmer Luckey's duct tape prototype) Valve hit him up as they'd already been doing R&D on their own VR hardware with Michael Abrash for a couple of years. They had two teams working on what they considered the *Reality projects: One lead by Abrash, which became their VR division, and one lead by Jerri Elsworth, who was developing an AR solution. Valve decided to back their VR solution, and as such let Elsworth keep all of her valve-funded, valve-developed research and development and take it to her own company (which is amazing on its own).

But back to VR -- Valve hit up Luckey and Carmack and offered to share their solution because they flat out didn't want to enter the hardware market. They needed a big player to take their tech and run with it, so they could have a market to sell with. Valve basically defined modern VR. You can look at the list of features their early headset had, that Oculus cribbed. For example, the constellation tracking system of the rift? It came from Valve, valve was prototyping 10 different types of tracking solutions at the time. Their constellation system was the last one Oculus got to see before they split, which is why Vive uses the more advanced Lighthouse tracking where Oculus went with the older constellation tracking.

I tried their headset at Dev Days, where it was known as "The Valve Room." This was way, way before even the DK2 had been announced. They already had a dual screen, 1080p per eye VR headset with full roomscale tracking and asynchronous reprojection going. Like, 2 full years before Oculus released the DK2. The Oculus rift DK2 and CV1, to an enormous degree, looks like a commercial version of "The Valve Room"

So back to the story about Oculus: There was actually conflict at valve between VR team members over whether or not they should share their technology completely free with Oculus. Valve quite literally gave their tech to Oculus, no strings attached. When Mark Zuckerberg was shown a prototype at Oculus' office as a pitch for facebook to buy them out, they showed them the Valve room and not the DK2. Zuckerberg literally thought, when he bought oculus, that he bought valve's technology. When he learned that they didn't have the team, or the exact demo he tried, they tried to buy out valve, and when they couldn't, they tried to poach the VR team. Maybe I shouldn't share this stuff as it's really contentious, but those who stay told me that the people who left for big raises at Oculus, are the same people who had been arguing prior that Valve should give their tech away to oculus for free.

Anywho, Facebook's attempt to poach Valve's VR division actually didn't work, with the vast majority of the VR division staying and working to this day. They cross over into other R&D, as to "power" their VR technology, they had to simultaneously prop up technologies like dx2vk (in fact, their VR conference is WHERE they announced dx2vk, during their "use our free tools for gamedev" lecture), sdl2, etc.

Valve has the single most unrecouped R&D costs in the entire VR market. They literally charged absolutely nothing for their R&D.

Welp, I'd like to source my claims about Valve and Oculus to Alan Yates, the person behind lighthouse itself, but it looks like he deleted his account where he said some thing. Despite that, a few pictures of evidence:

m5nalPR.jpg


That's a leaked pic of Zuck's actual VR pitch, he's literally in the valve room. This is the same room Valve took users into one on one with Michael Abrash at Dev Days.

some direct quotes from him on the subject:

Great post, it really is a shame this isn't reported more often. I guess the press probably doesn't want to get on Facebook's bad side with how much traffic they get from Facebook news stories and such.
 

FreezePeach

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,811
Everyone about to see what 'fuck you money' gonna get you when you put the full force of a AAA studio with AAA money into a niche VR product in an effort to pioneer new tech said studio has been working on forever now.

At this point im gonna be surprised if this isnt some insane shit given all the leaks over the last few months.

Damn shame they spoiled the big game awards surprise.
 

Spark

Member
Dec 6, 2017
2,588
Half Life VR has a way bigger chance to be revolutionary than Half Life 3. FPS games are tried and true, have been iterated on for two decades. VR games are not, they still need to make many paradigm shifts in that market.
 

Bruceleeroy

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,381
Orange County
Surely they wouldn't release this game now, with that name, unless they really intended to do a quality Half-Life game, right?

"Flagship title" too.

Yeah this is going to be massive and yet again I will make very emotionally fueled purchasing decisions that I won't regret for one second

its ok I got emotional after AOE4 got announced

Have fun and lets enjoy the ride :D

Yeah such fond memories of the Tektonik nights of doom.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Everyone about to see what 'fuck you money' gonna get you when you put the full force of a AAA studio with AAA money into a niche VR product in an effort to pioneer new tech said studio has been working on forever now.

At this point im gonna be surprised if this isnt some insane shit given all the leaks over the last few months.

Damn shame they spoiled the big game awards surprise.

Here's the thing, the Valve Index controllers do insane things. They're the single most advanced controllers around, period. They do full finger tracking, for every finger. They do pressure gauging. They strap to your hands.

Nothing uses them yet. I've had mine for a while, and outside of the small demo valve put out, nothing takes full advantage of them yet. this is because valve built an API that scales user input. So you can make a game that works with the valve index controllers, that will "scale back" the unique features it has, to work with an oculus touch or htc vive controller. And the opposite.

But nothing really takes full advantage of the unique things these controllers can do.

I'm really hoping HL:A goes full on 100% into the capabilities of the controller.
 

Wollan

Mostly Positive
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,821
Norway but living in France
I actually played Half-life 1 on my Oculus Quest today. Guess you could say my body is ready!

Now I just need to get that new stationary office PC in time for March. This will be insane and a milestone VR release. Was there at launch for HL1 and HL2 and I will be even more so for HLA.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,409
There was one point when I would've been at maximum hype for this, but it's been so long, and Valve has done so many questionable things over the years. Call me a cynic, but I just can't get excited about it.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
My buddy who is a huge Valve fan was super disappointed when he found out about this originally, because "it's just for VR." So I offered him one of my VR headsets, and now he's losing his shit excited lol. Suddenly he's all about VR and is going crazy reading about what modern VR gaming is like.
 

Adnor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,964
As someone who doesn't have a VR headset (But really wants one, even before this announcement) I hope they don't release a non-VR version.

I want them to go wild with the stuff they can do with VR, let this game be a technology milestone and showcase.
 
Oct 27, 2017
363
Today, I get to post in a Half-Life announcement thread. It's a great day. I don't have a headset, but this is so exciting.

The only thing I'll say is that I wish they would have kept the subtle science naming convention of expansions from HL1, but I guess that went out the window with Lost Coast and the episodes anyway.

Perhaps it's been answered already, but is the Oculus Quest (with link cable) compatible with SteamVR?
 

Cenauru

Dragon Girl Supremacy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,103
Here's the thing, the Valve Index controllers do insane things. They're the single most advanced controllers around, period. They do full finger tracking, for every finger. They do pressure gauging. They strap to your hands.

Nothing uses them yet. I've had mine for a while, and outside of the small demo valve put out, nothing takes full advantage of them yet. this is because valve built an API that scales user input. So you can make a game that works with the valve index controllers, that will "scale back" the unique features it has, to work with an oculus touch or htc vive controller. And the opposite.

But nothing really takes full advantage of the unique things these controllers can do.

I'm really hoping HL:A goes full on 100% into the capabilities of the controller.
Are the controllers still not used? I was hoping by the time I picked up an index, any VR games that haven't ceased development would have added in support for them.
 

Candescence

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,253
I wouldn't worry about the fact that this is a VR game. Lots of VR games eventually make their way to PC and consoles.
Nope. Not even PSVR, I think - we're talking a fully from the ground up VR experience designed for PC VR that a regular controller or mouse/keyboard will never be able to properly emulate. You'll need Vive Wands or Oculus Touch V1 at minimum to able to experience this. Even PS Move isn't going to be able to cut it.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Are the controllers still not used? I was hoping by the time I picked up an index, any VR games that haven't ceased development would have adding in support for them.

You can use them, because of how steam skeleton works, but it's like using any previous controller before them. There's really nothing yet that uses the new features. Boneworks will be the next big one that does, but that's a little ways off. Presumably HL:A will be the very first game to fully use the new controllers.
 

carlosrox

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,270
Vancouver BC
If I hear what sounds like Half-Life style music, even if not done by Bailey, I will fucking cry.

If it's a prequel I hope it leads into HL2.


Give me something that sounds like this and you will have my tears.
 

DoradoWinston

Member
Apr 9, 2019
6,335
My buddy who is a huge Valve fan was super disappointed when he found out about this originally, because "it's just for VR." So I offered him one of my VR headsets, and now he's losing his shit excited lol. Suddenly he's all about VR and is going crazy reading about what modern VR gaming is like.
experiencing is truly the key to VR.

youtube videos do it a complete disservice to show off the experience you get from actually putting on the HMD
 

Cenauru

Dragon Girl Supremacy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,103
You can use them, because of how steam skeleton works, but it's like using any previous controller before them. There's really nothing yet that uses the new features. Boneworks will be the next big one that does, but that's a little ways off. Presumably HL:A will be the very first game to fully use the new controllers.
aww that's a bit disappointing. Hopefully HL:A will kick things into high gear then.
 

Speely

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,006
I definitely wouldn't bet on that. Valve has so much money the sales of the game almost doesn't matter. They likely just want to bring people to VR.
IAWTP.

Also, this is the most promising announcement relating to the future of VR that has happened yet, imo. This could be not just THE killer app it needs, but a big milestone moment for the medium as a whole. Sure, lots of folks assumed this was coming, but seeing it officially announced is fucking RAD.

I don't currently own a VR headset and I had no plans to purchase one whatsoever, but now? Knowing how much Valve has invested in the medium that makes this exact thing possible, I have a really good feeling that this could be a first-in-class kind of experience just like HL 1&2 were, so I might actually budget for it now. If this bus is as good as I think it will be, I don't wanna miss it.
 

Arulan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,571
You can use them, because of how steam skeleton works, but it's like using any previous controller before them. There's really nothing yet that uses the new features. Boneworks will be the next big one that does, but that's a little ways off. Presumably HL:A will be the very first game to fully use the new controllers.
Boneworks comes out in less than a month! But yes, I expect Half-Life: Alyx will fully take advantage of them.
 

Deleted member 1722

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,058
Are the controllers still not used? I was hoping by the time I picked up an index, any VR games that haven't ceased development would have added in support for them.
Most games support them and have hand models these days, but there hasn't really been something to really blow out the capabilities yet. Mine have seen very little playtime since they came out.