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Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,987
I'm just tired.
b1e16c1d-5358-47c7-97zjuf.jpeg

That above was Gus.

I had a hedgehog I shared with Era I got in April. Name was Gus. I did everything I knew to make a nice home for it, but he mysteriously died on July 1. He was fine that Wednesday, here's video of him spinning on his wheel that day.


View: https://streamable.com/044kdl

Within 24 hours he stopped eating, slowed down, and I found him collapsed on the floor of his cage. He would barely breathe or respond to touch. I put him in his warm bed area, hoping he would come out at night like usual to run around his cage. Instead, I woke up to finding him frozen in rigor mortise.

The breeder, knowing that I had only had the hedgehog for 3 months, gave me a new one. This one was albino, 6 weeks old and a baby, named Shiro. He seemed to enjoy Gus' cage and Wednesday he saw the general vet at Banfield. They don't have the equipment to examine him but they said he looked fine. Thursday he started to decay like Gus, stopping to eat, sleeping out in the open parts of his cage. He stopped coming out at night. Today he is so slow moving he's responding to touch but just barely. Fearing Gus' fate, I called 10 clinics and found one open exotic animal hospital that treats hedgehogs and takes emergency visits. I've brought him to the hospital and they're examining him now. $160 but at least I'll have peace of mind in a diagnostic on what is killing my hedgehogs…

This is Shiro:
b8f89a84-743e-4101-bokjwe.jpeg


streamable.com

Watch 3lku4l | Streamable

Watch this video on Streamable.

This is the cage. The green hooded area is heated.
f3e6882c-ae61-4604-amck7l.jpeg


I'm just exhausted. I feel helpless and like a bad hedgehog parent when I've done my best but they are just not doing well in my care for some reason. Hopefully I get some answers today. Hopefully Shiro recovers.

What I suspect is going on now is that the air conditioning in my house is triggering hibernation for hedgehogs, which can be deadly, because their metabolism grinds to a halt and they burn through all their fat and stop eating. The primary vet said that shouldn't be a concern though because some owners here in WA even keep them outside their house 🧐 but the internet says otherwise, that it's common and dangerous. I had a reptile heated mat under blankets and a hood in the 4th floor of his cage but he was too young to know/remember to sleep there, so it's possible his extended time outside the warm area triggers hibernation. That would explain Gus' sudden decay because it happened after I installed smart home automation to trigger our AC to get a couple degrees colder in prep for the summer. But our primary vet acted like that wasn't a concern. Then again he's not an expert in exotics so maybe these hospital vets will have better advice on what to do. I went ahead and bought a 150 W heating lamp pair to install on the cage to heat the cage so that even if he sleeps outside his hidey-house with reptile mat and blankets that he will stay warm. If this problem is AC and hibernation, it's really frustrating because the vet denied it was a problem and the breeder never mentioned it, and that's a pretty fucking important concern. We keep it about 69F in the house.

Just looking for a place to share this, my friends are busy and it's embarrassing to share that my second hedgehog in 2 months is dying…
 

Astro Cat

Member
Mar 29, 2019
7,745
Man, this is so sad. It sounds wild to lose 2 hedgehogs under unknown circumstances. I really hope Shiro can recover! They are both very cute.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,109
I'm sorry you're going through this a second time, but I'm glad you found a place that can treat him! Hoping for the best.
 

MamaSpaghetti

Banned
Mar 17, 2022
1,979
It's terrible that you're going through this. I have an "elderly" cat at 11yo, vet says she is fine but I keep having these terrible nightmares waking up and she had died in her sleep at my feet. Going through that for real and now a second having the same issue... hope the best because it's terrible.
 

BlkSquirtle

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
948
I had a hedgehog and she passed recently (RIP Kenka Bancho: Hej Hej Rumble), it's almost definitely the attempted hibernation killing them. 69F is extremely low for a hedgehog. Our hedgehog attempted at 73F before, so 69F would definitely do it. Also the stairs on the cage should have handrails/walls or something because hedgehogs dont have the best eye sight and one could easily fall and hurt themselves.

Also you should have thermometers in their sleeping areas and throughout the cage that you can monitor to make sure it's above 75 - 82 at all times. For a cage that size I'd recommend one in each house and one in the middle too just to have an idea of the entire temperature of the hog habitat. You also don't want it to get too much hotter than say 82F as well, because they can overheat but that's generally less of a problem for them, just a heads up though.

Feel free to
 

Cubeikon

Member
Oct 29, 2017
52
First of all, I feel very sorry for your loss and I hope that Shiro will get better and doesn't share the same fate like poor Gus.

But as a recommendation - just basing on the pics - please put some work into that cage. There seems practically nothing to do for your little friend except for sleeping and eating.

I don't want to sound harsh and I also don't believe that this is the reason why Gus died or Shiro seems to be sick, but I would strongly recommend to put some effort in making the place a bit more worthwhile to live in.
 

R0b1n

Member
Jun 29, 2018
7,787
For exotic pets, always get more than 1 vet opinion, especially if you go to non-exotic vets, and even if you go to an exotic vet
 
OP
OP
Nothing Loud

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,987
Vet just updated. He's cold and his blood glucose is at 34 when it should be above 60. He's lethargic because of that and he is that way because he stopped eating. His body is too cold. They can't say why he stopped eating but the cold might be due to the AC at home, they say the hedgehog should be 70-80F in habitat temperature, and they said we need supplemental heating in the cage to meet that need. They syringe-fed him dextrose and gave me a kit to feed him myself at home today. I couldn't afford the $2000 critical care hospitalization and X-rays to check for gut blockages, but I doubt he has gut blockage since he's just been eating hedgehog food. All this minimal care will cost $300, sigh, but hopefully he makes it. I'll feed him in a heated blanket tonight and see if he makes it.
 
OP
OP
Nothing Loud

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,987
First of all, I feel very sorry for your loss and I hope that Shiro will get better and doesn't share the same fate like poor Gus.

But as a recommendation - just basing on the pics - please put some work into that cage. There seems practically nothing to do for your little friend except for sleeping and eating.

I don't want to sound harsh and I also don't believe that this is the reason why Gus died or Shiro seems to be sick, but I would strongly recommend to put some effort in making the place a bit more worthwhile to live in.

It's an old pic, it's got a hedgehog tunnel and a ball that makes noise and another feather toy in there, plus the hamster wheel, but I'm not sure what else to put there, they never seemed interested in toys.
 

Unicorn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
9,562
Didn't that initial thread generally dissuade you from getting exotic pets?

Edit yup:

www.resetera.com

Going to an exotic animal show today, going to buy a pet

Heading to Oregon for the PNW reptile and exotic animal trade show. Thinking about getting a turtle (diamondback terrapin, always wanted one since I was a kid, and never got to get one) or a newt/salamander (any kind, used to have them as a kid). But they will also have chinchillas, sugar...
 

chuckddd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,155
Shiro was also the name of my first dog. RIP lil' buddy!

On topic, hope your little friend makes a speedy and full recovery!
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,611
Hope he's ok OP

My turtle has a heater (in addition to the lights) because they also stop eating at the cold, even if the cold in Brazil is still hot lol
 
OP
OP
Nothing Loud

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,987
Didn't that initial thread generally dissuade you from getting exotic pets?

Edit yup:

www.resetera.com

Going to an exotic animal show today, going to buy a pet

Heading to Oregon for the PNW reptile and exotic animal trade show. Thinking about getting a turtle (diamondback terrapin, always wanted one since I was a kid, and never got to get one) or a newt/salamander (any kind, used to have them as a kid). But they will also have chinchillas, sugar...

I decided to get a hedgehog anyway.

They just found blood on his penis/urine so apparently he has a UTI too. I have to give him antibiotic/probiotic for a month twice a day now too. Poor little guy.
 

Cubeikon

Member
Oct 29, 2017
52
It's an old pic, it's got a hedgehog tunnel and a ball that makes noise and another feather toy in there, plus the hamster wheel, but I'm not sure what else to put there, they never seemed interested in toys.

I understand and I shouldn't have my opinion based on that one picture. I am sure you have the best intentions for your pets and I really hope Shiro recovers and has a long and happy life in your home!
 

Cilla

Member
Oct 29, 2017
610
Queensland, Australia
This cage is not good.
They are mostly blind and they shouldn't have ramps. A one level cage is better. They shouldn't have wire because they can try to climb and get hurt and break their legs etc.
It needs to be heated. What's the temperature? Do you have a thermostat and know the temperature?
What are you feeding them?
 
OP
OP
Nothing Loud

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,987
This cage is not good.
They are mostly blind and they shouldn't have ramps. A one level cage is better. They shouldn't have wire because they can try to climb and get hurt and break their legs etc.
It needs to be heated. What's the temperature? Do you have a thermostat and know the temperature?
What are you feeding them?

Gus figured out ramps just fine but I just installed safety netting around the ledges so they can't fall now. I'm confused what's possible other than a wire cage? I tried looking for the best cage I could afford on Amazon and there are very limited options for cages outside Amazon here in my area.
The air temp is 69F as I learned is too cold, so I just bought heat lamps to install today.
Feeding them hedgehog food from Amazon. But I just ordered better hedgehog food from Petsmart under the recc of the first vet. Will take some time to arrive.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,611
I decided to get a hedgehog anyway.

They just found blood on his penis/urine so apparently he has a UTI too. I have to give him antibiotic/probiotic for a month twice a day now too. Poor little guy.

Is this breeder just a guy breeding them at home? They didn't gave you some very important info
 
OP
OP
Nothing Loud

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,987
Is this breeder just a guy breeding them at home? They didn't gave you some very important info

No they are an established licensed breeder in the PNW, I guess I'm just in awe that they don't at least print out a new hedgehog owners pamphlet with info like this or something. They gave us a new owners kit but told us to buy a reptile heat pad for their sleeping quarters, that's it, no warning about AC or needing heat lamps for their whole cage or anything about baby sensitivity to temperature, which the exotic vet says is important because their bodies are so tiny and sensitive. The general vet from Banfield said they're "hardy" and it's not a concern
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,476
New Orleans
I'm so sorry your little dude is going through this. Here's hoping he recovers.

A quick search on Google suggests that tiered cages in general aren't recommended, assumedly for the reasons others have posted. Better to get something wide, I guess, but ultimately it's up to you. I'm sending Shiro love :(
 

Cilla

Member
Oct 29, 2017
610
Queensland, Australia
Gus figured out ramps just fine but I just installed safety netting around the ledges so they can't fall now. I'm confused what's possible other than a wire cage? I tried looking for the best cage I could afford on Amazon and there are very limited options for cages outside Amazon here in my area.
The air temp is 69F as I learned is too cold, so I just bought heat lamps to install today.
Feeding them hedgehog food from Amazon. But I just ordered better hedgehog food from Petsmart under the recc of the first vet. Will take some time to arrive.

Just because they can doesn't mean they should. There's so many options. Did you do any research before you purchased a hedgehog? I have converted a large plastic tote. The lid has mesh which is where the heat lamp sits and it keeps the heat in. The thermostat keeps it between 74-76.
Most food even from the pet shop isn't great. I use ORIJEN kitten food and I provide a variety of insects - meal worms, crickets etc and other variety of food eg eggs, chicken, pinkies.
 

butzopower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,861
London
Don't mean to kick you while you are down but it seems like others are posting some like very basic research you haven't done going into this. I think you should seriously consider whether you are prepared to have hedgehogs as pets. Hopefully Shiro makes it.
 
OP
OP
Nothing Loud

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,987
Just because they can doesn't mean they should. There's so many options. Did you do any research before you purchased a hedgehog? I have converted a large plastic tote. The lid has mesh which is where the heat lamp sits and it keeps the heat in. The thermostat keeps it between 74-76.
Most food even from the pet shop isn't great. I use ORIJEN kitten food and I provide a variety of insects - meal worms, crickets etc and other variety of food eg eggs, chicken, pinkies.

Yes I did some research, there was a lot of information to parse with different opinions on what's best and I had limited resources and access to exotic animal accommodations, I did my best. I'm not even going to respond to the rest because it's just fodder for further antagonism.

I'm not about to go into courtroom style defense against judgment from posters that think they know everything about my situation and what I've done and have an agenda against the OP particularly in a sympathy/venting thread. I don't deserve that and it's a tiring dynamic on Era that I'm not going to respond to anymore this time.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,135
I'm really sorry to hear about your hoggies. 😢 Anything regularly below 75 degrees is too cold and can and usually does trigger hibernation. This is a very large rabbit cage and in order to heat it properly, I have 3 heat lamps and Ash has been a happy boy for 2 1/2 years now. Quite the shit flinger but healthy. Also, types of food can actually make hedgies malnourished. High quality kitten food is usually recommended because they need certain things from it. You also do t want to give hogs a chance to fall because they will. Really all flat is ideal. Hope all turns out well and if I can help further, let me know. 😊 This is where Facebook groups are invaluable because most have experiences exotic vets that can usually tell what's going on early.
IMG-20200526-183231.jpg
 

Zoph

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,516
Albino animals frequently have lethal genetic characteristics, too. Just be aware.
 

Cilla

Member
Oct 29, 2017
610
Queensland, Australia
Yes I did some research, there was a lot of information to parse with different opinions on what's best and I had limited resources and access to exotic animal accommodations, I did my best.

A simple Google search will tell you this cage is absolutely inadequate. Hopefully you replace it with a better cage and heat set up. Diet too and hopefully he lives a long and happy life!
 
OP
OP
Nothing Loud

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,987
I'm really sorry to hear about your hoggies. 😢 Anything regularly below 75 degrees is too cold and can and usually does trigger hibernation. This is a very large rabbit cage and in order to heat it properly, I have 3 heat lamps and Ash has been a happy boy for 2 1/2 years now. Quite the shit flinger but healthy. Also, types of food can actually make hedgies malnourished. High quality kitten food is usually recommended because they need certain things from it. You also do t want to give hogs a chance to fall because they will. Really all flat is ideal. Hope all turns out well and if I can help further, let me know. 😊 This is where Facebook groups are invaluable because most have experiences exotic vets that can usually tell what's going on early.
IMG-20200526-183231.jpg

Thank you this is at least helpful.
 

Atom

Member
Jul 25, 2021
11,488
Sorry to hear. Hopefully the little one pulls through, and that some of the advice ITT can be helpful. Had an abandoned bird I tried to rescue once and it didn't make it, partly through my negligence and it's a horrible feeling.

Didn't that initial thread generally dissuade you from getting exotic pets?

Edit yup:

www.resetera.com

Going to an exotic animal show today, going to buy a pet

Heading to Oregon for the PNW reptile and exotic animal trade show. Thinking about getting a turtle (diamondback terrapin, always wanted one since I was a kid, and never got to get one) or a newt/salamander (any kind, used to have them as a kid). But they will also have chinchillas, sugar...

This is super depressing to read in hindsight.
 

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,594
Sorry to hear. Hopefully the little one pulls through, and that some of the advice ITT can be helpful. Had an abandoned bird I tried to rescue once and it didn't make it, partly through my negligence and it's a horrible feeling.



This is super depressing to read in hindsight.
oh my god
 
OP
OP
Nothing Loud

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,987
Yikes. Just got it on a whim.. no wonder the set up is awful.

This is my second cage, for several reasons. It's easy to be judgmental when you don't have the all the facts. The fact is this thread is about my hedgehog going to the hospital. I just spent $500 on his care and ceramic heat lamps and you don't know shit about what kind of research I've done or conversations I've had or my factors into this situation so if you're going to be a prick just fucking leave. Even my vet gave me bad info
 

rabidtanuki

Member
Oct 28, 2017
285
I am really sorry to hear about Gus and I hope Shiro pulls through. Don't mind the negativity in this thread. It is always easy for people to speak like they know better when they're not in the situation. The fact is that hedgehogs are a unique and hard to care for animal. There is a lot of misinformation out there regarding them even amongst experts. You are doing the best you can, which is way more than what many people do regarding pets.
 

skullmuffins

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,426
This is my second cage, for several reasons. It's easy to be judgmental when you don't have the all the facts. The fact is this thread is about my hedgehog going to the hospital. I just spent $500 on his care and ceramic heat lamps and you don't know shit about what kind of research I've done or conversations I've had or my factors into this situation so if you're going to be a prick just fucking leave. Even my vet gave me bad info
did you order some thermometers, too? you'll want to make sure you can monitor the temps and ensure they're in a safe range - you don't want the heat lamps making things too hot, either. you can get a thermostat to control the heat lamp if necessary. And I'd check the placement of the cage and make sure it's not in an especially chilly part of your place (like under an AC vent)
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,135
did you order some thermometers, too? you'll want to make sure you can monitor the temps and ensure they're in a safe range - you don't want the heat lamps making things too hot, either. you can get a thermostat to control the heat lamp if necessary. And I'd check the placement of the cage and make sure it's not in an especially chilly part of your place (like under an AC vent)
Great advice. I use a thermostat to control my heat lamps as well to keep between 78-80. If it's a cage, those cheap white plastic boards used in crafts can be used on side to contain drafts and hot spots.
 
OP
OP
Nothing Loud

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,987
did you order some thermometers, too? you'll want to make sure you can monitor the temps and ensure they're in a safe range - you don't want the heat lamps making things too hot, either. you can get a thermostat to control the heat lamp if necessary. And I'd check the placement of the cage and make sure it's not in an especially chilly part of your place (like under an AC vent)

I did, and I'm going to actually go back and swap out this 150W bulb for a higher wattage because it's not getting warm enough for him. I also put extra bedding and blankets and am going to engineer more safety netting and rails around the ramps.

I've got to syringe-feed him every 6 hours until he's better and syringe-feed him probiotic and antibiotic 2x a day for a month as well so I'll be quite busy with him, hopefully the extra handling leads to more affection as he's been quite shy since I got him.
 

HustleBun

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,076
I hear you OP. Been waiting at the ER for my rabbit to be seen for 5 hours now.

One of the joys of having an exotic pet.
 

GameAddict411

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,523
I am surprised about how fragile hedgehogs are. How do they survive in the wild if dipping 70f can kill them? I thought some lived in cooler areas like Europe and even NA. But I could be wrong.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,135
Ok, I thought all hedgehogs are wild. I guess people choose not to have them as pets because they can even more difficult to deal with than the domestic ones?
The European wild hogs are still endangered, I believe. Wild hogs would be kind of like trying to domesticate a coyote or fox instead of a dog. It can be done, but it's usually to their detriment. African Pygmys have been breed for more size and temperaments. There are many who setup some kind of outdoor protected area and food source for local wild hogs that work well.
 

Neon Octopus

Member
Nov 21, 2017
461
Damn thats heartbreaking. I don't have any advice but I don't think its your fault. You're trying your best
 

JackDT

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,123
Until you get the heatlamps and thermometer situation totally solid, you can just leave your AC off for now?
 

GameAddict411

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,523
The European wild hogs are still endangered, I believe. Wild hogs would be kind of like trying to domesticate a coyote or fox instead of a dog. It can be done, but it's usually to their detriment. African Pygmys have been breed for more size and temperaments. There are many who setup some kind of outdoor protected area and food source for local wild hogs that work well.
Yeah. Wild animals are not pets for obvious reasons. I assume the African Pygmys natural environment is pretty warm all year round.
 
OP
OP
Nothing Loud

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,987
Until you get the heatlamps and thermometer situation totally solid, you can just leave your AC off for now?

Yes I've already completely adjusted the room's temperature schedules (raised it to 4 degrees and placed a new heating lamp directly over the zone where he's healing and sleeping. I'm getting another one to cover the other zones of the cage and I've installed netting around every ramp and floor so that at worst he gently rolls down to the nearest floor.

Syringe-feeding him went well tonight. He got a full belly and antibiotic though he has spit up a little bit of formula he mostly tolerated the sum of it.