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Deleted member 4783

Oct 25, 2017
4,531
Thanks, capitalism!

Even if not true, we can't deny that Valve has focused more on GaaS than anything else. HL3 and L4D3 are coming, eventually
 

NervousXtian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,503
Why do people in this thread keep saying this? People's wallets didn't vote for anything. The vast majority of people would absolutely prefer more single player content from Valve, and them buying hats and cosmetic items for F2P games in the interim has nothing to do with how much people do or do not want more solo experiences. No one was out there saying they wanted more Dota items instead of Half Life 3.

Umm. What?
 

Zelda

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,079
Makes sense. They make that which provides the greatest profit. The vast amount of people buying up TF2 hats and CSGO gun skins are the ones to blame. There is no logical reason for Valve to make Portal 3, Half-life 3, or Left for dead 3 when the market for stupid shit like gun skins is so big. I like how some people in this thread are shitting on "capitalism" as if any other system would encourage Valve to make Half-life 3.
 

Skux

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,942
Much like the team behind Anthem, there's no one at the helm of the ship, and it shows.
 

finalflame

Product Management
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,538
What was your position on the whole soup situation?

Hah -- I was long gone before the soup situation inflamed. The culinary team is amazing and consists of a couple of employees who have been there for some time and are really good at what they do. With that said, it's hard to please everyone. Funny video though :) While I almost never heard any mention of ERA among peers, VNN was always fun to talk/joke about.

If I'm remembering incorrectly, Tuesdays were also sushi day. I distinctively remember trying to get to lunch before 1p-ish to make sure I got a decent pick at the options before it was reduced down to just veg rolls being left.
The real irony is once upon a time Valve was lauded for being a privately owned company. No answering to shareholders and having to chase the almighty dollar at the expense of artistic integrity and everything else!

And yet Valve ended up doing all that anyway. What a shame. Don't get me wrong, their Linux initiatives and (speaking personally) the Steam Controller are really fantastic. But god damn, at what cost?
This is still one of their greatest strengths -- they only work on IPs they own and are fully privately owned so they don't answer to external forces.Valve does exactly what Valve wants to do. Just because that doesn't align with what you wish they'd be doing, doesn't mean its wrong. They have found tremendous success because they succeeded in features people wanted (economy) with games people wanted to play. They continue to work only on things they want to work on and release them on their own schedule.
 
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Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Half life 3/they don't make games is the actual dead end that like what...? 50% of vehement disapproval of valve leads to. Like literally they need to go down in flames because they didnt make sequels to these games.

50% is a stab in the dark. But theres the no make games thing, store curation, 30% cut lol, and forum moderation. These are obstensibly the problems that make valve such a reviled company.
 

TheRaidenPT

Editor-in-Chief, Hyped Pixels
Verified
Jun 11, 2018
5,949
Lisbon, Portugal
There being so much money in such shitty useless content has really done a number on the industry. Blizzard, Valve and Epic are husks of their former selves, and capitalism is the reason why.

Oh yeah Valve and Blizzard are prime example of bad management.

We're talking about Valve with L4D and Portal... Blizzard with World of Warcraft and Diablo IP.

So many lost opportunities and potential
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Yo so this hackernews anonymous source is a rando in the comments section. Does anyone even care?
 

Gush

Member
Nov 17, 2017
2,096
Well, that's a little reductive. But alright. Cool, guy.

Is it though? No more reductive than your initial post.

People want what Valve have no real motivation to provide. Nothing was lost unless you feel like you're somehow entitled to sequels to their legacy IPs for whatever reason, which absolutely no one is. Clearly they're doing what they want to do and the idea that they're sitting around counting MTX money at the expense of literally everything else is really myopic. You make implications that Valve sold out their artistic integrity for $$$ when they just took a gamble on Artifact and new hardware, acquired Campo Santo, are working on several VR games and have supported Dota 2 incredibly well to the point where it's incomparable to the game it was at launch. Does artistic integrity require Gordon Freeman or a portal gun? I'm really not sure what the angle is.

I can understand being mad for not getting what you want, but why should you if they don't want to make it? They're doing other things, and among those I listed I didn't even touch upon Steam as a platform at all, which they've continued to iterate on and try new ideas with. Some worked, some really really didn't, but it's hard to say they're sellouts just cos their motivations don't line up with your interests, especially when half the stuff they've done in the last while have been pie in the sky passion projects which doesn't exactly work in your argument's favour.

Other criticisms of Valve like the ineffectiveness of their structure I'm either totally on board with or at least understand and sympathize with. The piss poor communication with fans, the Pandora's box of shitty hentai games, the fact that it takes 1000 years for them to get anything done, and the double edged sword of an uncurated storefront are all valid complaints. The doom and gloom shit about Valve not making games though? Nah
 

hibikase

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,820
It just seems all so baffling how a privately-owned company like Valve turned out that way. Usually the pursuit of short-term easy profit over artistic integrity is blamed on having to please shareholders, but in Valve's case they don't even have that excuse to lean on, and the company just ate its soul from the inside out regardless.

It's pretty sad, and shows how fucked the game industry really is thanks to the cancer of microtransactions.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,404
Their flat structure and especially the work on anything you want attitude sounds like such bullshit.

Just going to lead to splinter groups creating 10 different half life prototypes that go nowhere. Because know one wants to jumpship on their prototype to work on something else.

Be a video game company, decide you're going to make a new video game, spend time taking feedback on what people in your company want to make and then have someone make the tough decision on what that is and do it. Otherwise you'll never organically make a game and people won't want to work there because they're just designing hats.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
It just seems all so baffling how a privately-owned company like Valve turned out that way. Usually the pursuit of short-term easy profit over artistic integrity is blamed on having to please shareholders, but in Valve's case they don't even have that excuse to lean on, and the company just ate its soul from the inside out regardless.

It's pretty sad, and shows how fucked the game industry really is thanks to the cancer of microtransactions.

Just an aside, they do alot of things that are long term and difficult. You have to go out of your way to deny that.

But what does eating your soul from the inside out even mean lol.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,238
It just seems all so baffling how a privately-owned company like Valve turned out that way. Usually the pursuit of short-term easy profit over artistic integrity is blamed on having to please shareholders, but in Valve's case they don't even have that excuse to lean on, and the company just ate its soul from the inside out regardless.

It's pretty sad, and shows how fucked the game industry really is thanks to the cancer of microtransactions.
Do you think all Steam features, Steam VR, Proton, etc, were just pulled from thin air or popped up into existence?
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,809
As I've said many times before, Valve's recent game output isn't for me. I don't much like multiplayer games, TF2 and CS were fun for a bit but I am much more a fan of their single-player titles. I hope they will go back to those some day. However, as a PC gamer I find their their work on Steam and its features (like Steam Input and Steam Proton) extremely valuable and important for the whole platform. So while I understand, sympathize and agree with the people that want Valve to make more single-player games, the company effect on PC gaming has been so profound that I don't feel disappointment for their lack of single-player game output.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Do you think all Steam features, Steam VR, Proton, etc, were just pulled from thin air or popped up into existence?

Yeah and theres gonna be a thousand more with the same angle after that one. And a thousand before.

If you cant admit to the work valve puts in, you are at square zero because you are going ro get very busy typing many many words to get around that fact that valve introduces useful and often open technologies at a more than respectable rate.

You can declare that valve does nothing but rake in money but it leads to the stumpiest arguments as these experts turn tail when scrutinized. And then boom. Another one pops up right in their place at square zero lol.
 

TechnicPuppet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,830
Sounds like a nightmare. There's also a big worry with the trust people have put in Valve with their digital purchases. It's a private company, they could just fuck off at any moment and no one would be able to do much.
 

Wumbo64

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
327
The crowding argument is absurd. Take movies for example, would a movie service be worse for having all the films ever made rather than a small selection? You are essentially arguing that winners should be picked by committee and that artificial caps should be put on the volume of games made because that's what happens when you put those kind of barrier into place. As a person who mainly play indie games a good fraction of those would probable never have been accepted into the store, let alone made if it weren't for Steam opening the gates.

Not to mention that the "crowding" problem has already been solved. People have other curation channels, like discussing on forums like Era or Reddit, word of mouth, Youtube, online "magazines" and so on. And if you really want the curated boutique experience it's not like there are barriers to setting something like that up - even with steam keys.
Nobody stumbles into a store and just buys the first random thing they find, people do research, look around and if they buy something shitty they can get a refund. I wonder how people find books to buy on amazon, or music to listen to on spotify, especially considering many more songs and books are released every year than games and new titles have massive amounts of content reaching back centuries into the past to compete with.
The reality is that crowded with trash problem is an imaginary problem and not a real issue.

As for their UI client that kind of stability is exactly why steam is so good. They don't try to reinvent the service like Google does with gmail every few years. It's functional, stable and doesn't come with sudden overhauls to generate buzz and excitement. That's how software used to be and frankly I think that approach is much better than continuous deployment and rapid iteration. Sure there are improvements they could make but do you honestly struggle to use steam? You said there are serious flaws with steam so please give me list of all the things that makes your experience purchasing and playing games on steam seriously flawed. Also parts of the UI has changed over the last few years and more substantial improvements are in the pipeline. Taking it slow is a massive plus here not a bad thing.


What are those issues? Can you maybe list them? I see this brought up all the time but all I ever hear is grumbling about crowding trash which we already established is nonsense.

Oh boy, where to begin:

  • Steam's sheer volume of games is certainly an issue. It crowds the market to the point where smaller games made by independent developers with no marketing budget are simply doomed without any means of signal boosting. The day their game releases, so do dozens of others. Also, the sheer volume of games makes using Steam's search function a nightmare. I usually just google the game and hope the Steam page comes up, since Google's algorithm is more efficient than Valve's at finding things based on exact searches, keywords, and not being so picky about punctuation and capital letters. Also, I do like to browse new stuff on literally every other store, but not Steam for these exact reasons. A long time ago, indie games flourished on Steam, but now devs are flocking to services like Nintendo's Eshop because Nintendo works diligently to give them limelight. Opening the flood gates to shitty asset flips and low effort mobile ports your community has to curate is ridiculous from a usability standpoint. Any other retailer that spends money on organizing stores (phyiscal or digital) would laugh you out of town for suggesting the company not provide such a basic service.\

  • Valve's own curator tools are paltry. They spent time and money developing a curator system whose current top user is still TotalBiscuit, a man who isn't alive anymore. And actual useful curators like the 30 FPS Police don't even get their badge on store pages anymore since Valve dicked with the algorithm. Combine this with the fact that the user reviews system took years to filter out troll content and allowed review bombing of content for years without substantial intercession from Valve. Oh, and now they set dangerous precedents like " negative review bombing is bad" but "positive review bombing is good." just further proves the system is fundamentally dysfunctional.

  • The Steam Client's stability absolutely varies from individual to individual. I have had nothing but problems with it from day one, across several different PCs. Whether it was set to opt into beta updates or use "stable" defaults. I have had store pages not load, contextual menus and libary links lead me to the front page, browsing my user profile cause the client to close suddenly, on top of many other smaller issues like Big Picture Mode automatically starting on my desktop even after unchecking boxes and applying settings to the contrary. This is all on top of a UI whose schizophrenic layout lacks clear anchor points and needlessly has multiple subheaders and icons that can all lead to the same location. If this were any other company, large chunks of this UI would have been focus tested and deemed worthy of gutting. There is an entire profession dedicated to helping corporations iterate on the user experience, sometimes it can be excessive, but doing borderline nothing (making the front page more obtuse doesn't count) is equally idiotic. Oh, and Valve could stand to fix the fucking text scaling on non-1080p monitors, Jesus Christ!

  • Them taking their time is absolutely a bad thing. I think people forget that in a service industry, doing things in consideration of a customer's time is just as important as competent execution of said thing. Valve tries diligently to eliminate their human and fiscal overhead by staffing light and adopting a flat corporate structure. You would think this would give them amazing agility to solve engineering issues efficiently and effectively. However, they usually never inform customers who have legitimate recurring issues about what they are doing behind the scenes. This isn't revealing company secrets, this is basic communication in the form of public relations. Valve literally hosts events and does interviews with the press, but almost never willingly reveals anything about even simple Steam client backend improvements until a few months before they go into beta. And those beta's usually last an obscene amount of time before the feature is finally implemented in a stable state.

I have used every major client. With the exception of basic features currently missing from the Epic Game Store and the first 18 months of Origin, Steam is without a doubt the worst I have used. Full Stop. There was even an entire year where the exe wouldn't even respond to activation clicks. I worked with Steam Support (Why is it a seperate site?), personal friends who work in IT, and searched Google like a hawk for solutions. The only thing that worked was going into task manager and closing the Client Bootstrapper, then starting the app again. This problem disappeared after a random update a year later, and is now intermittently back.

I understand a lot of people use and like this service, but that doesn't mean it isn't flawed or unworthy of criticism. The only reason I and many other people use it is because a lot of games are exclusively available on the service (the irony!). It may have once revived PC gaming, but now it is slowly leeching off of it while Valve gives it's peers an unlimited amount of time to innovate on their own platforms. Hopefully we get some real competition from GoG Galaxy 2.0 here soon, I am checking my inbox everyday for the beta rollout.
 
Oct 27, 2017
442
The perverse financial incentives of Steam certainly seem to have exerted a lot of pressure on Valve. But I would argue its management structure played a much larger role in its downfall than capitalism. Capitalism is the wind. Good management pulls a company away from what is easy, to what is in its best long term interests. And loot boxes are like fast food to a dev.

But a flat management system is really an unaccountable management system by another name. So... they fucked it up. They. Personally. Failed.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,748
Oh boy, where to begin:

  • Steam's sheer volume of games is certainly an issue. It crowds the market to the point where smaller games made by independent developers with no marketing budget are simply doomed without any means of signal boosting. The day their game releases, so do dozens of others. Also, the sheer volume of games makes using Steam's search function a nightmare. I usually just google the game and hope the Steam page comes up, since Google's algorithm is more efficient than Valve's at finding things based on exact searches, keywords, and not being so picky about punctuation and capital letters. Also, I do like to browse new stuff on literally every other store, but not Steam for these exact reasons. A long time ago, indie games flourished on Steam, but now devs are flocking to services like Nintendo's Eshop because Nintendo works diligently to give them limelight. Opening the flood gates to shitty asset flips and low effort mobile ports your community has to curate is ridiculous from a usability standpoint. Any other retailer that spends money on organizing stores (phyiscal or digital) would laugh you out of town for suggesting the company not provide such a basic service.\

  • Valve's own curator tools are paltry. They spent time and money developing a curator system whose current top user is still TotalBiscuit, a man who isn't alive anymore. And actual useful curators like the 30 FPS Police don't even get their badge on store pages anymore since Valve dicked with the algorithm. Combine this with the fact that the user reviews system took years to filter out troll content and allowed review bombing of content for years without substantial intercession from Valve. Oh, and now they set dangerous precedents like " negative review bombing is bad" but "positive review bombing is good." just further proves the system is fundamentally dysfunctional.

  • The Steam Client's stability absolutely varies from individual to individual. I have had nothing but problems with it from day one, across several different PCs. Whether it was set to opt into beta updates or use "stable" defaults. I have had store pages not load, contextual menus and libary links lead me to the front page, browsing my user profile cause the client to close suddenly, on top of many other smaller issues like Big Picture Mode automatically starting on my desktop even after unchecking boxes and applying settings to the contrary. This is all on top of a UI whose schizophrenic layout lacks clear anchor points and needlessly has multiple subheaders and icons that can all lead to the same location. If this were any other company, large chunks of this UI would have been focus tested and deemed worthy of gutting. There is an entire profession dedicated to helping corporations iterate on the user experience, sometimes it can be excessive, but doing borderline nothing (making the front page more obtuse doesn't count) is equally idiotic. Oh, and Valve could stand to fix the fucking text scaling on non-1080p monitors, Jesus Christ!

  • Them taking their time is absolutely a bad thing. I think people forget that in a service industry, doing things in consideration of a customer's time is just as important as competent execution of said thing. Valve tries diligently to eliminate their human and fiscal overhead by staffing light and adopting a flat corporate structure. You would think this would give them amazing agility to solve engineering issues efficiently and effectively. However, they usually never inform customers who have legitimate recurring issues about what they are doing behind the scenes. This isn't revealing company secrets, this is basic communication in the form of public relations. Valve literally hosts events and does interviews with the press, but almost never willingly reveals anything about even simple Steam client backend improvements until a few months before they go into beta. And those beta's usually last an obscene amount of time before the feature is finally implemented in a stable state.

I have used every major client. With the exception of basic features currently missing from the Epic Game Store and the first 18 months of Origin, Steam is without a doubt the worst I have used. Full Stop. There was even an entire year where the exe wouldn't even respond to activation clicks. I worked with Steam Support (Why is it a seperate site?), personal friends who work in IT, and searched Google like a hawk for solutions. The only thing that worked was going into task manager and closing the Client Bootstrapper, then starting the app again. This problem disappeared after a random update a year later, and is now intermittently back.

I understand a lot of people use and like this service, but that doesn't mean it isn't flawed or unworthy of criticism. The only reason I and many other people use it is because a lot of games are exclusively available on the service (the irony!). It may have once revived PC gaming, but now it is slowly leeching off of it while Valve gives it's peers an unlimited amount of time to innovate on their own platforms. Hopefully we get some real competition from GoG Galaxy 2.0 here soon, I am checking my inbox everyday for the beta rollout.

"Flocking to the eshop" is not really happening like it used to, people are drowning in releases there too. It's an industry wide issue, not just on Valve. And you should really get your PC sorted, it sounds like a mess.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,308
Oh boy, where to begin:

  • Steam's sheer volume of games is certainly an issue. It crowds the market to the point where smaller games made by independent developers with no marketing budget are simply doomed without any means of signal boosting. The day their game releases, so do dozens of others. Also, the sheer volume of games makes using Steam's search function a nightmare. I usually just google the game and hope the Steam page comes up, since Google's algorithm is more efficient than Valve's at finding things based on exact searches, keywords, and not being so picky about punctuation and capital letters. Also, I do like to browse new stuff on literally every other store, but not Steam for these exact reasons. A long time ago, indie games flourished on Steam, but now devs are flocking to services like Nintendo's Eshop because Nintendo works diligently to give them limelight. Opening the flood gates to shitty asset flips and low effort mobile ports your community has to curate is ridiculous from a usability standpoint. Any other retailer that spends money on organizing stores (phyiscal or digital) would laugh you out of town for suggesting the company not provide such a basic service.\

  • Valve's own curator tools are paltry. They spent time and money developing a curator system whose current top user is still TotalBiscuit, a man who isn't alive anymore. And actual useful curators like the 30 FPS Police don't even get their badge on store pages anymore since Valve dicked with the algorithm. Combine this with the fact that the user reviews system took years to filter out troll content and allowed review bombing of content for years without substantial intercession from Valve. Oh, and now they set dangerous precedents like " negative review bombing is bad" but "positive review bombing is good." just further proves the system is fundamentally dysfunctional.

  • The Steam Client's stability absolutely varies from individual to individual. I have had nothing but problems with it from day one, across several different PCs. Whether it was set to opt into beta updates or use "stable" defaults. I have had store pages not load, contextual menus and libary links lead me to the front page, browsing my user profile cause the client to close suddenly, on top of many other smaller issues like Big Picture Mode automatically starting on my desktop even after unchecking boxes and applying settings to the contrary. This is all on top of a UI whose schizophrenic layout lacks clear anchor points and needlessly has multiple subheaders and icons that can all lead to the same location. If this were any other company, large chunks of this UI would have been focus tested and deemed worthy of gutting. There is an entire profession dedicated to helping corporations iterate on the user experience, sometimes it can be excessive, but doing borderline nothing (making the front page more obtuse doesn't count) is equally idiotic. Oh, and Valve could stand to fix the fucking text scaling on non-1080p monitors, Jesus Christ!

  • Them taking their time is absolutely a bad thing. I think people forget that in a service industry, doing things in consideration of a customer's time is just as important as competent execution of said thing. Valve tries diligently to eliminate their human and fiscal overhead by staffing light and adopting a flat corporate structure. You would think this would give them amazing agility to solve engineering issues efficiently and effectively. However, they usually never inform customers who have legitimate recurring issues about what they are doing behind the scenes. This isn't revealing company secrets, this is basic communication in the form of public relations. Valve literally hosts events and does interviews with the press, but almost never willingly reveals anything about even simple Steam client backend improvements until a few months before they go into beta. And those beta's usually last an obscene amount of time before the feature is finally implemented in a stable state.

I have used every major client. With the exception of basic features currently missing from the Epic Game Store and the first 18 months of Origin, Steam is without a doubt the worst I have used. Full Stop. There was even an entire year where the exe wouldn't even respond to activation clicks. I worked with Steam Support (Why is it a seperate site?), personal friends who work in IT, and searched Google like a hawk for solutions. The only thing that worked was going into task manager and closing the Client Bootstrapper, then starting the app again. This problem disappeared after a random update a year later, and is now intermittently back.

I understand a lot of people use and like this service, but that doesn't mean it isn't flawed or unworthy of criticism. The only reason I and many other people use it is because a lot of games are exclusively available on the service (the irony!). It may have once revived PC gaming, but now it is slowly leeching off of it while Valve gives it's peers an unlimited amount of time to innovate on their own platforms. Hopefully we get some real competition from GoG Galaxy 2.0 here soon, I am checking my inbox everyday for the beta rollout.



It's funny that on one hand, you advocate that too much games hurt smaller devs... Yet advocate for removing smaller games. Because face it, the assets flip are the minority here. Even if you remove them, you stay with the same problem.
 

Wumbo64

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
327
"Flocking to the eshop" is not really happening like it used to, people are drowning in releases there too. It's an industry wide issue, not just on Valve. And you should really get your PC sorted, it sounds like a mess.

Flocking to the Eshop was inserted in there as an illustration of independent and smaller devs looking for alternatives because big stores that are needlessly crowded like Steam are failing them. So maybe there was a hotbed of opportunity there once, but not anymore. Valve has the time, money, and talent to replicate that formula, but doesn't.

Also. I use Battlenet, Galaxy, Uplay, Origin, and very occasionally even Bethesda Launcher all without noteworthy issue. This is in addition to mod managers, Launchbox as a frontend, and any other weird bits of software like borderless gaming running in tandem. Steam was the piece that broke here repeatedly. The only other client that worked arguably as bad or worse is the current Windows 10 game store.

Being reductive and joking my PC is junk is a low-brow attempt at a counter argument.
 

MistaTwo

SNK Gaming Division Studio 1
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
2,456
Indeed, and unfortunately for most people who have never worked in this industry, they have zero context or experience and love to latch on to stories like this and make a bunch of assumptions. You only hear these opinions from disgruntled ex-employees who likely, from the get-go, were not a good fit but somehow made it past the interview. Not that they are at fault, but also in my experience, Valve's vetting process is thorough specifically to avoid these situations.

I agree and disagree on lots of points he made. A lot of what he is chalking up to being bad is actually large parts of what makes Valve really, really good at what they do. And people are jumping to at least a dozen incorrect conclusions based on highly biased information. While I ultimately left, and Valve is not without its faults, I am convinced it's truly just for a certain type of person (Valve usually refers to these as "T-shaped people", among a myriad of other qualifiers).

Unfortunately, since Valve works on relatively large time horizons (and with no regard for time because of their privileged position -- one of my key takeaways was that "money is not a limited resource at Valve, talent is"), people really do like to assume the worst. I think a lot of people will eat their words in the coming 1-2 years. Hard to say where all their projects are now (and I saw at least one project get cancelled after years of work), but I think once they come to fruition lots of people will change their opinion on Valve's recent work.

Yeah, it's just the reality where the negative stories are the ones to pick up steam, and the good stories are never told because as someone else said,
the emotional incentive isn't as strong when things are positive.

Most of the discussion about Valve just seems so off from what I have heard from staff working there, or what I have seen when visiting their offices over the years. I always had the impression that the core Steam team was always fairly understaffed, but most discussion on the internet would have you believe 90% of the company is just sitting there tweaking store algorithms in order to better steal money from indie developers.

Not necessarily with Valve, this was recent: https://venturebeat.com/2019/03/09/valve-loses-vr-engineers-in-recent-layoff/

I mean it makes sense from a project perspective seeing as Index is pretty much finished, but I'm not sure Valve's VR division is quite as large as you may think.

To be honest, a dozen layoffs in a company over ~400 people is barely newsworthy.
Especially if it was just normal project transition period stuff.
 

Wumbo64

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
327
It's funny that on one hand, you advocate that too much games hurt smaller devs... Yet advocate for removing smaller games. Because face it, the assets flip are the minority here. Even if you remove them, you stay with the same problem.

To an extent yes. Valve could have also invented a system for scheduling individual games being listed. At this point, the quantity of games being bulk released simultaneously is clearly an architectural issue worth their time and resources to fight.

This is why I like GoG. They consistently release smaller games every week and give them good screen real estate on the front page. They also tend to give you blog posts detailing their imminent release just beforehand. It certainly doesn't work at a pace that allows dozens of entities to release their games quickly, but does guarantee a number actually get a fair chance at being seen. In my eyes, it's a superior alternative to 50 games being released in one day and likely none of them succeeding as day after day they circle further into a black hole.
 

HK-47

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,592
To an extent yes. Valve could have also invented a system for scheduling individual games being listed. At this point, the quantity of games being bulk released simultaneously is clearly an architectural issue worth their time and resources to fight.

This is why I like GoG. They consistently release smaller games every week and give them good screen real estate on the front page. They also tend to give you blog posts detailing their imminent release just beforehand. It certainly doesn't work at a pace that allows dozens of entities to release their games quickly, but does guarantee a number actually get a fair chance at being seen. In my eyes, it's a superior alternative to 50 games being released in one day and likely none of them succeeding as day after day they circle further into a black hole.
We regularly hear about perfectly good indie games getting rejected by gog
 

Vaibhav

Banned
Apr 29, 2018
340
Where do valve invest all the money they earn. I don't think industry need them necessarily. Any other replacement store front would be just fine.

Atleast console makers put it all in to enrich platform they own. Ms was not doing its part properly but seeing acquisitions they have made, i think they will make up for it.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,748
Flocking to the Eshop was inserted in there as an illustration of independent and smaller devs looking for alternatives because big stores that are needlessly crowded like Steam are failing them. So maybe there was a hotbed of opportunity there once, but not anymore. Valve has the time, money, and talent to replicate that formula, but doesn't.

Also. I use Battlenet, Galaxy, Uplay, Origin, and very occasionally even Bethesda Launcher all without noteworthy issue. This is in addition to mod managers, Launchbox as a frontend, and any other weird bits of software like borderless gaming running in tandem. Steam was the piece that broke here repeatedly. The only other client that worked arguably as bad or worse is the current Windows 10 game store.

Being reductive and joking my PC is junk is a low-brow attempt at a counter argument.

as Epic have suavely demonstrated, money alone doesn't fix things. And they need ample time, to even get the most basic of things in order.

i'm being genuine about your PC, the number of technical issues you're facing is unprecedented.
 

Wumbo64

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
327
We regularly hear about perfectly good indie games getting rejected by gog

GoG often listens to community feedback and has before overturned those rejections. Benefits of having a human quality control team manually curating your submissions. Certainly I would rather have one notable game get rejected, then potentially reinstated later versus dozens of viable candidates being approved to die in no man's land immediately.

I also have my suspicion that GoG likely demands a more exhaustive set of things from a developer. The fact they themselves have internal software teams patching decades old games running on ancient technology likely means they need your source code. I am sure they are exceptionally rigorous about their marketing budget and how many resources they will allocate to optimize a game for their platform. The high quality end results are worth overlooking any brief squabbles they have with individual devs.
 

BrickArts295

GOTY Tracking Thread Master
Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,755
I could use another Blood, Sweat and Pixels book about pretty much every game developer/publisher out there.
I just recently finished the one about R* and GTA. Very fascinating stuff. I still like their games but I'll never be able to see that company in the same way I used to.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,308
To an extent yes. Valve could have also invented a system for scheduling individual games being listed. At this point, the quantity of games being bulk released simultaneously is clearly an architectural issue worth their time and resources to fight.

This is why I like GoG. They consistently release smaller games every week and give them good screen real estate on the front page. They also tend to give you blog posts detailing their imminent release just beforehand. It certainly doesn't work at a pace that allows dozens of entities to release their games quickly, but does guarantee a number actually get a fair chance at being seen. In my eyes, it's a superior alternative to 50 games being released in one day and likely none of them succeeding as day after day they circle further into a black hole.


The problem with your solution is that you remove freedom from the devs by moving out their releases based on YOUR interest instead of THEIR interest.

And you still don't fix the problem. If there's 15 games releasing each day, how do you schedule these releases ?
 

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,587
Threads like this get so much attention but things like this are constantly ignored





Jane is talking about Valve since Campo Santo moved there.
 

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,415
i'm being genuine about your PC, the number of technical issues you're facing is unprecedented.
not really, steam has a lot of little jank to it that are minor enough that you get used to, but the in-client browser can be pretty wonky.

i'm also in a situation now where i have a ps4 controller (hitbox) plugged in and a wireless xbone controller connected to my pc, i have to have ps4 controller compatibility checked under steam input, but in doing so turning off my xbone controller (holding the guide button for 6 seconds) will start up big picture mode, and i have every possible option for disabling big picture mode on aside from having ps4 controller compatibility ticked, which my hitbox needs. i really wish bpm was some separate fork for the client so i don't have to deal with that thing unwantonly showing up.
 

finalflame

Product Management
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,538
Threads like this get so much attention but things like this are constantly ignored





Jane is talking about Valve since Campo Santo moved there.

ERA currently has a fixation on "GAME COMPANY BAD", which is being fueled by the gaming press (hey, one of many reasons Valve engages the press as little as possible), and this doesn't fit that. Nobody actually cares about nuanced discussion, just repeating the same tired and oversimplified talking points a few dozen times per thread.
 

Wumbo64

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
327
as Epic have suavely demonstrated, money alone doesn't fix things. And they need ample time, to even get the most basic of things in order.

i'm being genuine about your PC, the number of technical issues you're facing is unprecedented.

Time and money are needed to fix these things, Valve has proven it has a propensity to waste both. We are not talking about a couple months, we are talking about years to add features their competition can replicate with sometimes better results in a fraction of the time. In the case of a company like GoG, they have even less resources and manage to compete with "Valve Time."

Also, your concern is misplaced. Again, I have had issues with the Steam Client across many different rigs. It is the nature of software, someone has to encounter anomalies. Steam is not immune to this phenomenon. In fact, a lot of friends have encountered equally catastrophic bugs I have never even heard of, like relentless boot loops or library downloads freezing at an arbitrary percentage.

There is no way a company can optimize their platform for countless thousands of hardware configurations, which is why having competent technical support is paramount. Until a couple years ago, getting a Steam ticket answered by someone qualified and punctual was like pulling teeth with chop sticks. As a result, I just fiddled with things until a functional workaround was discovered. As I noted, a dozen other clients and software linking to them have nothing but typical user-error issues on my end. Look on the Steam forums and you can see thousands of stories like mine and my friends. Sitting there, scratching your head convinced my PC is broken when a certain quantity of incompatibility is inevitable is honestly insulting.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,308
ERA currently has a fixation on "GAME COMPANY BAD" right now, and this doesn't fit that. Nobody actually cares about nuanced discussion, just repeating the same tired and oversimplified talking points a few dozen times per thread.

Nah, there's currently a fixation on tribalism. "X company is bad because my favorite company". We just reached a new low with threads based on random internet comments without any sources to it. Also, you can read that "companies taking time is bad".
 

Aiii

何これ
Member
Oct 24, 2017
8,188
Yeah, it's just the reality where the negative stories are the ones to pick up steam, and the good stories are never told because as someone else said,
the emotional incentive isn't as strong when things are positive.
Nah, it's journalism dying a death with the internet and people still treating every source as if it's the Washington Post.

No due diligence, no research, no asking dev's for a reacting and certainly no checking sources. Instead, random anon Twitter post says something, let's pretend it's something.

And then people like OP buy into it, make a thread, and here we are.