I had a boss that said that to me once when I asked a mundane question. Abusive people will twist any interaction like that to make you feel incompetent and stupid.
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Anon: "I worked at Valve a few years back, and I could write a book about what's wrong there" (Update: Verified ex-Valve employee comments in thread)
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Maybe that loot box bill will make Valve make games again? but thats a pipe dream i think sadly.
Steam isn't new. It's a storefront that gets occasional improvements, but largely seems left in maintenance mode.
The dysfunction is obvious just from using Steam, it's a hacked together product of dozens of different philosophies and ideas with no overarching sense of cohesion. Just like in this guys anecdote, its clear that no one at Valve wants to take responsibility for gutting and rebuilding any large parts of Steam so they just make these topical fixes that further muddle the whole experience. They really need an overhaul at that company, even if they do only want to remain competitive as a "financial middleman."
I'm very curious as to when/if we'll ever get an expose by the press sneak fuck himself about valve's heel turn, it sure sounds like a hell of a story
This is a very ignorant post. Lots of new things has happened with Steam. Proton, SteamVR API, Workshop, Online Party API, to name a few.
Saying they only leave it in "maintenance mode" is really ignorant.
They also have the Valve Index, Index controller, Basestation 2.0 coming out.
They are also creating 3 VR games, one that is out this year.
I would love a book from Jason on this. I would pay a lot for such a thing.
i know the lootbox/mtx stuff is going to be the standout for the discussion here, but uh..
that's kind of astonishing if true. i mean i know turnover is bad in the video game industry, but considering valve's 'unique' structure i can see how nothing ever gets done if they have project commitment issues combined with poor employee retention.
People usually ask this about many IPs/companies and I think the answer is simple: who would want to make these games? Why?
If anyone pitches a big project to them, paying for all development, their licenses and saying they would get a significant part of the profit they would say "ok go ahead". But why would a third party company do that? If you're big enough to pitch something like this, you're better off using your own IP.
I don't think Valve is against it, they lend their IPs to other devs sometimes (remember the Portal bridge game?), but it's unlikely that they get a lot of actual serious pitches from other studios because it just doesn't make too much sense.
with as much negativity there is surrounding lootboxes, i'm always surprised at how relatively little flak valve has gotten for essentially pioneering the practice in modern games. along with their own marketplace and using speculative work from their userbase so that they don't actually have to make the skins/hats/costumes themselves as well as facilitating means of gambling, it's a real doozy.
Not going to be a popular opinion but Valve has let us down as both a developer and as the largest pc storefront. Since this is mainly about the developer side of things, I'll just say it's hard to think of a company I hold in such high regard historically yet has failed to deliver a single product I want for over 10 years while still harvesting talent and fan loyalty under their banner. They are the perfect example of complacency in the industry.
Others have talked about the rampant cliques that come from their bullshit structure. I imagine most employees just skip right off the surface if they don't immediately fit in/demonstrate subservience.
They rarely talk to the public and this is a major reason why. Out of sight, out of mind.
Riiiiight because any other economic models would yield game after game. Rofl They got into the game business to make money on a product they wanted to make.
What you're seeing is called greed and it happens wherever humans exist. Not all humans are this way but many are susceptible to it when great power/wealth come their way. There are still many studios that do it for the games.
They are making 3 VR games right now.
1 is confirmed out this year.
Valve buying Campo Santo certainly speaks to a change in production priorities somewhere. I don't foresee Jane, Sean, Jake and the rest being satisfied creatively by a microtransaction-fueled project and it is likely their focus on storytelling that was key to them being introduced into the Valve workforce. It even appeared as though the only reason Campo Santo agreed in the first place was that Valve's future goals matched their own. That said, there is no doubt that Valve spearheaded a lot of the current game cosmetics landscape for better and worse, and that absolutely drove the direction of their models for a considerable length of time. Luckily something that is, at last, finally coming under potential regulation.
However, they are also investing fairly significantly into ventures that are not seen as major money makers at the moment - the VR market is growing but still not what one would consider a runaway success, and their focus on enriching Linux as a platform for games is similarly fueled by a farther-reaching plan beyond an initial, major payout. It is a place for creatives more in the field of engineering at the moment, but that is what the company finds exciting these days.
Sadly this is not the first story coming out regarding Valve's work culture and dynamics which paints it in such a distressing light. Though there are also equal amounts positive experiences, it is difficult to get the full picture of how those may have been the result of being a part of the flow of their seniors' wills. This is not an issue exclusive to Valve by any means, but it does show at least that things are not picturesque. And I will always feel let down when learning that more of the industry is prone such things.
The final dig at Valve and championing of Epic tastes of sour grapes. Half Life, as important and landmark of a franchise as it once was, doesn't quite carry the weight or importance that the writer feels it does. 12 years removed from its last chapter, Valve would need to do something along the lines of what id software did in playing to their strengths to make Doom a name again. Anything less will be a moment for the fans, but not quite the general gaming public.
They've been doing just that for years, you just haven't been paying any attention.
However, they are also investing fairly significantly into ventures that are not seen as major money makers at the moment - the VR market is growing but still not what one would consider a runaway success, and their focus on enriching Linux as a platform for games is similarly fueled by a farther-reaching plan beyond an initial, major payout. It is a place for creatives more in the field of engineering at the moment, but that is what the company finds exciting these days.
Sadly this is not the first story coming out regarding Valve's work culture and dynamics which paints it in such a distressing light. Though there are also equal amounts positive experiences, it is difficult to get the full picture of how those may have been the result of being a part of the flow of their seniors' wills. This is not an issue exclusive to Valve by any means, but it does show at least that things are not picturesque. And I will always feel let down when learning that more of the industry is prone such things.
The final dig at Valve and championing of Epic tastes of sour grapes. Half Life, as important and landmark of a franchise as it once was, doesn't quite carry the weight or importance that the writer feels it does. 12 years removed from its last chapter, Valve would need to do something along the lines of what id software did in playing to their strengths to make Doom a name again. Anything less will be a moment for the fans, but not quite the general gaming public.
They've been doing just that for years, you just haven't been paying any attention.
I'm not saying it's never updated or improved. But you look at, for example, their completely lackadaisical approach to resolving issues with content submission, searches, algorithms, and quality control, and yeah. They're working on new things while coasting on aspects that have been problems for years. Their flat structure prevents them from approaching issues that Steam has had for years without a long term goal seemingly in mind.
I think this is the problem though; the freedom to work on whatever you want, whenever you want, like a collaborative workshop of freeform artistic expression, is a nice concept in theory but when you tether it to capitalistic enterprise it begins to fall apart. This isn't the first time we've heard this concerns about Valve's work culture, issues rooted less in the openness of the work plan, so much as the incompatibility and arguable hypocrisy of this freedom when there's still a pressure to work on certain projects and meet clique expectations, all the while the company's corporate direction pushes for very particular types of games that your creativity interests may not be aligned with.
I remember when it finally hit me that Half-Life 3 was never, ever happening and the reality it was probably due to Valve not having a culture to support development. I don't for a second doubt there's plenty of people at Valve who'd love to work on projects like Half-Life 3, Portal 3, Left 4 Dead 3, and new franchises, but these projects never get off the ground because the clique culture favours teams building monetizable GaaS titles. Without full momentum your project will never enter production and forever sit as a bundle of experimental ideas.
And it's nice to have that freedom, to work on experimental shit, but the pressure of the job is there. I can't remember who said it, but assessment of performance, essentially your wage, and bonuses and whatnot are handed out through feedback from your peers. The stability of your role and your movement through the company is also tied to networking and cohesion with groups (which can be said for life in general). It's thus literally in your best interest at Valve to stay with the cliques and work on the popular projects rather than venture too far outside the mainstream. Steering yourself away the big projects disconnects you from the experienced employees more likely to provide you with positive feedback and reduces your role and project stability.
Indeed, and unfortunately for most people who have never worked in this industry, they have zero context or experience and love to latch on to stories like this and make a bunch of assumptions. You only hear these opinions from disgruntled ex-employees who likely, from the get-go, were not a good fit but somehow made it past the interview. Not that they are at fault, but also in my experience, Valve's vetting process is thorough specifically to avoid these situations.
I agree and disagree on lots of points he made. A lot of what he is chalking up to being bad is actually large parts of what makes Valve really, really good at what they do. And people are jumping to at least a dozen incorrect conclusions based on highly biased information. While I ultimately left, and Valve is not without its faults, I am convinced it's truly just for a certain type of person (Valve usually refers to these as "T-shaped people", among a myriad of other qualifiers).
Unfortunately, since Valve works on relatively large time horizons (and with no regard for time because of their privileged position -- one of my key takeaways was that "money is not a limited resource at Valve, talent is"), people really do like to assume the worst. I think a lot of people will eat their words in the coming 1-2 years. Hard to say where all their projects are now (and I saw at least one project get cancelled after years of work), but I think once they come to fruition lots of people will change their opinion on Valve's recent work.
They work on new ways of algorithms, searches and wuality control all the time. They have tried many different apporaches over the years. Steam Greenlight, Steam Direct and now they are using the no-curation way.
How do you know they don't have a long term goal?
I've been saying this for years and always get Valve fans come in and try and convince me they're doing the same as every other company. Financial middleman is the perfect descriptor of Valve over the last decade plus.
Their Linux development was literally a project born of Gabe Newell's fear of Windows, and VR has a massive financial upside.
can't remember the last original valve game design I played since half life 1
half life 2 was fine, but that was 15 years ago
counterstrike - bought from someone else
l4d - bought from someone else
portal - bought from someone else
artifact - bought from someone else
tf2 / dota2 - clone / sequel of something valve didn't even make
i still think they're fine at making games. but it seems more like they get by by throwing a bunch of money at production rather than actually developing things on their own
half life 2 was fine, but that was 15 years ago
counterstrike - bought from someone else
l4d - bought from someone else
portal - bought from someone else
artifact - bought from someone else
tf2 / dota2 - clone / sequel of something valve didn't even make
i still think they're fine at making games. but it seems more like they get by by throwing a bunch of money at production rather than actually developing things on their own
Yep, that sounds like Valve. Their utterly dysfunctional structure has long since led to their not producing anything actually worth caring about. They're simply not capable of producing large-scale, worthwhile, exciting projects anymore.
As usual, everyone (myself included) likes to shit on middle managers, sometimes-egotistical project directors, big publishers who make big decisions about greenlighting or cancelling games, etc. But Valve is the ultimate proof that those kind of roles are necessary if you actually want to get shit done.
As usual, everyone (myself included) likes to shit on middle managers, sometimes-egotistical project directors, big publishers who make big decisions about greenlighting or cancelling games, etc. But Valve is the ultimate proof that those kind of roles are necessary if you actually want to get shit done.
They are working on lots of exciting large-scale worthwile projects. Right now it is VR. Just because you don't find it exciting or large, doesn't mean that it isn't.
They do have a long term goal with all that stuff, and that goal is to make the store run itself as much as possible so that they can make as much money as possible with as little effort as possible.
Isn't that every person and companies dream? Make as much money with the least amount of effort while providing pro-consumer practices?
It's enough rope to hang yourself, like this dude did :)
If you actually used the service, you would know instead of making a cheap hot take.
Because they keep wildly course-correcting, and then do nothing to improve on the most recent correction.
"Greenlight? Nah, now we have Steam Direeee--yeah fuck that. Let's not bother curating. Oh wait, now we have a new mess. Are we going to fix this one? Noooooo? OK, then. Back to the TF2 hats."
All the things you are presently dumping on Valve for were done due to public outcry. You're angry that Valve has been listening to feedback.
I have never heard of a single person or company that includes that last part on their dream lol
It is really easy to see in this thread who doesnt know what they're talking about and is here just to take a shit on Valve and Steam lol
The only troubling part of the article is that guy who asked him both to have a project and told him not to bother him about it. Everything else is just that the guy isnt a good fit for that kind of corporate structure. It happens.
The only troubling part of the article is that guy who asked him both to have a project and told him not to bother him about it. Everything else is just that the guy isnt a good fit for that kind of corporate structure. It happens.
Yeah, isn't that how things works? If something doesn't work, you try something else?
This seems like disliking Valve just to dislike Valve.
And?
Eh. I've known of several very successful places where people aren't expected to run choices like that past their bosses, but to just run with a project. Less so game development studios, but def places where there can be large, multi-year projects in play.
Also, this. A good Valve dev cycle might give us a game every 2 years. Them improving Steam means all games are lifted up at all times.
There's a ton of ignorance and probably trolling in this thread and the mods doesn't seem to do anything.
Im not even gonna bother anymore.
Im out.
Im not even gonna bother anymore.
Im out.
Honestly, I empathize with people who have these sentiments, but I fundamentally do not understand why people want new games from storied developers that don't think they have that great of a game to go into production/ship on. I'd love Valve to ship more games, and knowing they are working on quite a few (some in public knowledge, some not-so-much) is nice, but I'd much rather not play a Half Life 3 that they aren't really motivated to get to a shippable state.
Valve literally just released a new game late last year. It might not have been the game you (or frankly, many) people wanted to play, but it's the game they wanted to make and put into the world. They constantly & update the hell out of most of their titles, and are one of the very few big studios that not only allow modding & custom content, but go out of their way to support it. They're trying harder than anyone to get VR working, arguably in-spite of how viable a platform it is for mass market or revenue potential. They're pretty much the only "Linux" developer, both native & as a JIC Windows decides to go full App Store They don't allow a crunch culture, their average career lifespan is one of the highest in the west, and they legitimately go well out of their way to make experiences that make games fun irregardless of profitability. Valve is one of Riot's more storied competitors, and I can honestly say some of the criticisms thrown their way are legitimately befuddling.
Claims of "capitalism" killing the art just doesn't make sense looking at either Valve or other big publishers. They absolutely, positively have prioritized their live-service games & Steam, but not just because of the revenue-to-time economics - it's because those are the products that made their customers (players) the most satisfied, and those are the products the staff feels they are best worth investing in. They aren't perfect, god knows, but criticizing them for a lack of games shipped feels like the worst kind of monkey paw wish you could make of a developer you like.
I respect the opinions of (on a very personal level) anyone who's disappointed there's no Half Life 3, or new IP out of Valve in the same way I respect people that are upset the next Kojima game isn't a Metal Gear - you love something, and not getting more of what you know you love sucks.
Valve literally just released a new game late last year. It might not have been the game you (or frankly, many) people wanted to play, but it's the game they wanted to make and put into the world. They constantly & update the hell out of most of their titles, and are one of the very few big studios that not only allow modding & custom content, but go out of their way to support it. They're trying harder than anyone to get VR working, arguably in-spite of how viable a platform it is for mass market or revenue potential. They're pretty much the only "Linux" developer, both native & as a JIC Windows decides to go full App Store They don't allow a crunch culture, their average career lifespan is one of the highest in the west, and they legitimately go well out of their way to make experiences that make games fun irregardless of profitability. Valve is one of Riot's more storied competitors, and I can honestly say some of the criticisms thrown their way are legitimately befuddling.
Claims of "capitalism" killing the art just doesn't make sense looking at either Valve or other big publishers. They absolutely, positively have prioritized their live-service games & Steam, but not just because of the revenue-to-time economics - it's because those are the products that made their customers (players) the most satisfied, and those are the products the staff feels they are best worth investing in. They aren't perfect, god knows, but criticizing them for a lack of games shipped feels like the worst kind of monkey paw wish you could make of a developer you like.
I respect the opinions of (on a very personal level) anyone who's disappointed there's no Half Life 3, or new IP out of Valve in the same way I respect people that are upset the next Kojima game isn't a Metal Gear - you love something, and not getting more of what you know you love sucks.
Steam is a storefront with some light social features that can be found elsewhere and done better. A digital marketplace was meaningful at its time of release, but it's not original at this point. It's certainly not art, like much of Valve's games output has been.
Just report stuff chief, that stuff does work, you're well aware of this
It's not worth busting a gut over, the world will spin on
I would like to be pointed to where I can find this storefront you're talking about.
I know what he's talking about. I've worked in places like that. It can be frustrating, but it's not necessarily bad or wrong. It's not necessarily right, either. It's basically expecting a clusterfuk to sort itself out, which it often does.
Even at my job now, I've effectively fired people without the authority to do so. I just go to the person who does, tell him the guy does shit work and he should be gone, and he's gone. I'm the only one who really knows firsthand, so I make the call. Maybe not quite by the book, but that's how the place runs and it has for a long time.
It's sort of a mess and it's almost certainly not the best way to do things, but it works.
Even at my job now, I've effectively fired people without the authority to do so. I just go to the person who does, tell him the guy does shit work and he should be gone, and he's gone. I'm the only one who really knows firsthand, so I make the call. Maybe not quite by the book, but that's how the place runs and it has for a long time.
It's sort of a mess and it's almost certainly not the best way to do things, but it works.
