GUILTY GEAR-STRIVE- JAEPO2020 Discussion Info Translated - "Guilty Gear is about 'warusa' (mischief)"

Kalmakov · Feb 8, 2020

http://shinjin.guiltygearsweden.com/2020/02/08/quick-summary-of-panel-discussion/

What is "Guilty Gear" according to the developers?

As an addition, ASW disclosed one of their internal keywords: "WARUSA", from the Japanese word Warui. Here I jokingly translate it to "MISCHIEF". For the game to be GG it has to have sufficient amounts of MISCHIEF. Internally they can be talking about how something needs more MISCHIEF, or that the MISCHIEF is lacking in some regards. Ishiwatari mentioned that we can see some MISCHIEF in the exhibition matches, but that there is much more under the hood. And he said this with a big smirk on his face.

Instant Block is not final

– Ishiwatari is not happy with the current state of IB. He thinks that it is not really fun at all.
– ASW is experimenting to find new solutions.

Even Ishiwatari dosen't like the UI

– Yes, it is a placeholder and yes they will change it.
– Interestingly, Ain mentioned that it looks more like pop than rock. Ishiwatari definitely thinks that this is a problem, there must be a rock feel to it. But he also did mention that ASW would like to remove the gloomy atmosphere of past UIs.

ArcSys discuss how they want to approach characters who have a strong emphasis on Okizeme

1) They do not want characters that put out projectiles with large animations that cover the character, affectively hiding their mixup option.
2) They do not want players to be able to use 25% meter to put a meaty projectile from which the character proceeds to do

Stream source:

Also includes plenty of high level gameplay

Naga · Feb 8, 2020

From that link, this is the best bit so far I've heard about GGS:

– ASW wants to get new players to come into the GG-scene. ASW often discusses what actually makes a game "easy" or "difficult". They did not want to compare or mention other games. Ishiwatari does not believe that simple combos make for simple games. Akira mentions that in FGs, combos can look difficult but actually be simple. And that combos can look really simple but actually be really difficult. ASW is working hard to find a good balance in its difficulty so that established GG-players, established FG-players, and totaly new players, will pick up GGST and enjoy it.

Although it's still worrying given how big of a challenge it is.

For the oki bit you've quoted, doesn't that mean it's bad news for a character like I-No?

Jaded Alyx · Feb 8, 2020

#StriveForRollback

Kalmakov · Feb 8, 2020

Naga said:
From that link, this is the best bit so far I've heard about GGS:

Although it's still worrying given how big of a challenge it is.

For the oki bit you've quoted, doesn't that mean it's bad news for a character like I-No?

I'm thinking they mean someone like Zato-1

QisTopTier · Feb 8, 2020

You can't have a rock feeling UI with out a bit of gloom daisuke.

Also RIP millia

ggdeku · Feb 8, 2020

I haven't been very positive on the gameplay, but honestly aside from all that stuff I really don't like how Strive looks visually.

It's so messy. The effects are super overdone, huge words are flying by, a ton of screen shake, and the characters themselves seem to blend in with the backgrounds too much. Xrd is so crisp and clean in comparison.

Korigama · Feb 8, 2020

2) They do not want players to be able to use 25% meter to put a meaty projectile from which the character proceeds to do a unreactable and safeup mixup.

Soooo, no more charged Stun Edge FRCs/YRCs then?

And yeah, pretty sure at least some gloominess tends to come with the territory with rock.

Uraizen · Feb 8, 2020

Jaded Alyx said:
#StriveForRollback

Yeah... no disrespect to the OP, but it's always disappointing to come into a Strive thread and see nothing about the confirmation of rollback netcode.

MistaTwo · Feb 8, 2020

QisTopTier said:
You can't have a rock feeling UI with out a bit of gloom daisuke.

Also RIP millia

Just need to glam it up some more.

Kalmakov · Feb 8, 2020

ggdeku said:
I haven't been very positive on the gameplay, but honestly aside from all that stuff I really don't like how Strive looks visually.

It's so messy. The effects are super overdone, huge words are flying by, a ton of screenshake, and the characters themselves seem to blend on with the backgrounds too much. Xrd is so crisp and clean in comparison.

I couldn't disagree more. Strive looks so damn clean. Visual marvel.

QisTopTier · Feb 8, 2020

MistaTwo said:
Just need to glam it up some more.

I mean... look at the album covers tho :P

The Turbanator · Feb 8, 2020

Kalmakov said:
Strive looks so damn clean.

I love the art style and how it evolved from Xrd, especially the detailed shading, but the hitsparks and particle effects are way too much. Clean is the last thing I'd call it.

Kaguya · Feb 8, 2020

About the new air dash:

– The players think the current AD is difficult to combat due to its variety of speeds and angles (which depend on the timing of the AD).
– The players think that it currently is stronger in neutral than previous ADs as it was difficult to find good reactive responses against it. For instance, high AD could make a reactive AA whiff when it would have hit the low AD which only comes a short time afterwards.
– ASW discussed design of ADs. ASW is experimenting with the ADs.

Quick summary of the JAEPO 2020 panel discussion

shinjin.guiltygearsweden.com

Iori Loco · Feb 8, 2020

QisTopTier said:
You can't have a rock feeling UI with out a bit of gloom daisuke.

Also RIP millia

Yeah, I didn't felt like XRD was gloomy at all. Ishiwatari like Queen and Judas Priest, he can take inspiration from their aesthetics.

And getting rid of those dirty mix ups is not necessarily bad. People complains so much about characters like Raven where a knockdown leaves you in sucha bad place that I can't believe some want to keep playing against that. Setplay can exist without obscuring what the attacking character is doing.

Kaguya · Feb 8, 2020

Guys, watch the video, a lot of set plays there, Ky get setplays after each stun dipper in the video including a safe jump against Chip's DP. Game has less setplays, not no set plays. No reason to think Millia/I-No wont be doing their thing, it just wont be as suffocating as in Xrd.

Qvoth · Feb 8, 2020

some random dude testing sol
seems like the ONLY gatling left for him is 5S > far 5S > 5HS?
if 5K can only gatling into 2D then sol's super weak

opponent can tech after wall splat, so you can't really give up wall break for better oki, except maybe air throwing the tech?

Chaos2Frozen · Feb 8, 2020

Jaded Alyx said:
#StriveForRollback

"I don't know her."

DrArchon · Feb 9, 2020

It's gonna be real sad when this under-performs even after changing everything (except netcode) to accommodate more casual players.

Also wow at the number of things that aren't final here.

Deleted member 36578 · Feb 9, 2020

I feel like I'm the worlds only Guilty Gear fan that's insanely excited how short combos are in this game. It's retaining everything I love about the franchise and taking out being trapped in combos for far too long. Not only do I not have to worry about that but I also don't need to practice and memorize long strings for hours to compete.

TimeFire · Feb 9, 2020

DrArchon said:
It's gonna be real sad when this under-performs even after changing everything (except netcode) to accommodate more casual players.

Also wow at the number of things that aren't final here.

Them's the breaks

Casualizing a series loved by it's systems and gameplay and not even upgrading the single most consistent criticism people have about your games will result in that

mnemonicj · Feb 9, 2020

It's great that they really are listening to feedback and I have no intentions of derailing the thread, but no basic/standard online implementation to play normally against other people (rollback), no buy.
They seriously need to commit to providing a quality online experience, and their responses so far regarding the netcode have been not been straight forward.

QisTopTier · Feb 9, 2020

brokeastronaut said:
I feel like I'm the worlds only Guilty Gear fan that's insanely excited how short combos are in this game. It's retaining everything I love about the franchise and taking out being trapped in combos for far too long. Not only do I not have to worry about that but I also don't need to practice and memorize long strings for hours to compete.

Most characters do pretty short strings into oki with a couple exceptions across the whole series, the Gatling change just hurts a bunch of characters .

You wont find too many actual long combos in this

Sanox · Feb 9, 2020

DrArchon said:
It's gonna be real sad when this under-performs even after changing everything (except netcode) to accommodate more casual players.

Also wow at the number of things that aren't final here.

Not going to be sad if Strive fails when Daisuke doesn't seem to care about all those things that made people like GG and that make GG anymore and he decides to drive the series into a wall with a failed misguided attempt to appeal to casuals at the cost of the series.

The reason for the Gatling change just so perfectly shows how nonsensical his ideas for this game are.

The gatling system is probably the one pretty noob friendly aspect of GG. Even without knowing anything you are able to get some basic ground combos going. A system that allows for pretty freeform combos.

What does Daisuke do. He changed the gatling system to be more limited because having all those different routes is bad. He looks at the galting system as dozens of different combos you need to know instead of the freeform aspect that allows people to easily get some basic combos going. Limiting the gatling system means you need to understand it more to properly use it which means its less noob friendly than the normal gatling system...

And how anyone at Arcsys looked at this complete trash UI and didn't immediately see how bad it is will never not make me shake my head.

Deleted member 36578 · Feb 9, 2020

QisTopTier said:
Most characters do pretty short strings into oki with a couple exceptions across the whole series, the Gatling change just hurts a bunch of characters .

I like how you need to commit to bigger damage instead of chaining into it all. The gatling change doesn't hurt imo but just changes how you would approach. I really like how Daisuke had this new vision for the game but I'm worried in the end a lot of the fanbase isn't going to even give it a chance before making him change it. I know I'm alone on all this. Every Strive topic is nothing but concerns about the game play, I'm the only crazy person totally sold on it already.

Sanox · Feb 9, 2020

brokeastronaut said:
The gatling change doesn't hurt imo but just changes how you would approach.

Its making the approach more limited and boring

QisTopTier · Feb 9, 2020

brokeastronaut said:
I like how you need to commit to bigger damage instead of chaining into it all. The gatling change doesn't hurt imo but just changes how you would approach. I really like how Daisuke had this new vision for the game but I'm worried in the end a lot of the fanbase isn't going to even give it a chance before making him change it. I know I'm alone on all this. Every Strive topic is nothing but concerns about the game play, I'm the only crazy person totally sold on it already.

I main Ky and he benifits the most from the changes.

To put it bluntly if Ky's kit is strong enough to be a top character then the game's design has failed either in balance or system mechanics and in Strive's case it's going to be a system side blunder.

Deleted member 36578 · Feb 9, 2020

QisTopTier said:
I main Ky and he benifits the most from the change.

To put it bluntly if Ky's kit is strong enough to be a top character then the game's design has failed either in balance or system mechanics.

Lol! I mean his specials alone cover a lot of options. I just honestly wish we could get an open beta for this already. I'm dying to play it myself.

QisTopTier · Feb 9, 2020

brokeastronaut said:
Lol! I mean his specials alone cover a lot of options. I just honestly wish we could get an open beta for this already. I'm dying to play it myself.

That's my point Ky is hyper well rounded to a degree system mechanics that exist to play around him to some degree or give characters that actually specialize in things advantages in their gimmicks are missing.

Take the gatling from weaks, getting in on Ky and out pacing his 5S and 2HS attacks are far less rewarded now, meanwhile Ky is hyper rewarded in strive's system for the game plan he's always had.

Ky getting that flip kick shows me they are still a ways off on understanding what they want with the game. He lost Greed Sever because they felt him having a scary big overhead move is too strong in a game they want for new players to enjoy, but in return they gave ky a gap closer that lets him pressure easier. So now he has a pressure option he didnt have before (and meterless combo extender when he used to need to spend meter to do decent dmg outside of specific moments)

Sanox said:
Its making the approach more limited and boring

Yup

Deleted member 36578 · Feb 9, 2020

QisTopTier said:
That's my point Ky is hyper well rounded to a degree system mechanics that exist to play around him to some degree or give characters that actually specialize in things advantages in their gimmicks are missing.

Take the gatling from weaks, getting in on Ky and out pacing his Slash attacks are far less rewarded now after dealing with his normals, meanwhile Ky is hyper rewarded in strive's system for the game plan he's always had.

Yup

My mains have been Chipp and Slayer over the years and Chipp losing his teleports already tells me how different of game we'll be playing here. It's just far too early for everyone to write the game off already. Ky may seem strong in this early build but not enough people have had a chance to play this yet and as we all know, fighting game meta is an ever changing beast.

lupinko · Feb 9, 2020

Man, how far Daisuke and ASW have fallen.

Their glory years are behind them.

Qvoth · Feb 9, 2020

QisTopTier said:
That's my point Ky is hyper well rounded to a degree system mechanics that exist to play around him to some degree or give characters that actually specialize in things advantages in their gimmicks are missing.

Take the gatling from weaks, getting in on Ky and out pacing his 5S and 2HS attacks are far less rewarded now, meanwhile Ky is hyper rewarded in strive's system for the game plan he's always had.

Ky getting that flip kick shows me they are still a ways off on understanding what they want with the game. He lost Greed Sever because they felt him having a scary big overhead move is too strong in a game they want for new players to enjoy, but in return they gave ky a gap closer that lets him pressure easier. So now he has a pressure option he didnt have before (and meterless combo extender when he used to need to spend meter to do decent dmg outside of specific moments)

Yup

Seems like the flip kick is an overhead now though

L Thammy · Feb 9, 2020

lupinko said:
Man, how far Daisuke and ASW have fallen.

Their glory years are behind them.

What Guilty Gear StrIVe can learn from MUGEN:

Kalmakov · Feb 9, 2020

Part of me wants StrIVe to fail so all of y'all complaining never get another GG game ever again.

QisTopTier · Feb 9, 2020

Kalmakov said:
Part of me wants StrIVe to fail so all of y'all complaining never get another GG game ever again.

Imagine being so petty to want a game to flop because you don't like people knowledgeable of the series worried about the game's long term health wanting it to be successful

AC to Xrd was 8 years I can wait

Qvoth said:
Seems like the flip kick is an overhead now though

Hmm when was this changed the funky air dash build? That's even worse if so lol

Kalmakov · Feb 9, 2020

QisTopTier said:
Imagine being so petty to want a game to flop because you don't like people knowledgeable of the series worried about the game's long term health wanting it to be successful

Imagine being so petty that you're critical of the long term health and the competitively viability of a game that you literally haven't even touched yet and is still in development

Sorry but I'm just really damn annoyed of comments like "Guilty Gear is dead" and shit because this game doesn't play like Rev2. If the game was just Rev2 again I wouldn't give two shits about it

QisTopTier · Feb 9, 2020

Yeah it's still in development, which is why it's important to give feedback about what we don't like. It seems they are listening to some extent too.

I wouldn't want a rev3 either I thought xrd as a whole was a step back and to me a lot of stuff in this feels like a billion steps back atm.

If they want combos shorter and snappier on average then they need to get rid of all this slowdown on counter hit stuff and long ass transitions breaking up the fights pace, as it is now we have combos that take about just as long to finish sometimes longer than older ones on average even with less presses just because of the exaggerated hitstop .

The game is suffering from similar issues BBCT went through atm of them wanting similar to old gg but trying to make it unique

Korigama · Feb 9, 2020

Though I'm less than optimistic about Strive, I'll probably be putting most of my time into GBVS going forward in respect to Arc's games anyway (going to continue not paying much attention to BBTAG until the 2.0 character pass goes on sale for a better price relative to what they're offering, DBFZ would have to be considerably less of a mess in S3 for me to go back and I still probably won't be playing it regularly or all that seriously, and the dismal state of Rev 2's online and lack of a local scene have led me not to play it since I competed at Evo 2018). Didn't need this to be another Rev 2 in spite of Xrd being the first I've actually enjoyed GG since #R, but far from sold on the direction it's taking.

Right now, I'm more interested in seeing how the final product will end up being received vs. the team's expectations than anything else.

Sanox · Feb 9, 2020

Kalmakov said:
Sorry but I'm just really damn annoyed of comments like "Guilty Gear is dead" and shit because this game doesn't play like Rev2. If the game was just Rev2 again I wouldn't give two shits about it

Its not about this game not being Rev3. The problem is that he is changing the absolute core of GG and the reasons given for these changes are complete bullshit

Kalmakov · Feb 9, 2020

Sanox said:
Its not about this game not being Rev3. The problem is that he is changing the absolute core of GG and the reasons given for these changes are complete bullshit

Change is good, y'know? The core of GG ain't being changed. This game is still Guilty Gear, same aesthetic, characters, music are all intact, and mechanics like roman cancel have actually been improved. The game overall looks way more fun than any of the other GG games. Had this game had the same "core" of Guilty Gear as you define it then I wouldn't have any reason to give a shit about this game, just would've been the same thing all over again, and that sucks

QisTopTier · Feb 9, 2020

Kalmakov said:
Change is good, y'know? The core of GG ain't being changed. This game is still Guilty Gear, same aesthetic, characters, music are all intact, and mechanics like roman cancel have actually been improved. The game overall looks way more fun than any of the other GG games. Had this game had the same "core" of Guilty Gear as you define it then I wouldn't have any reason to give a shit about this game, just would've been the same thing all over again, and that sucks

This is an opinion that is not commonly shared.

Once again you are basically telling long time fans to fuck off because you are satisfied you are getting something different and that's all that matters. You you you.

There are plenty of ways they could tone things down and keep it GG but they are blundering pretty hard this early on, they have 7 months to fix it up still though.

RLCC14 · Feb 9, 2020

Looking at the newest footage and this interview basically killed and and all hype I had for this game.

Kalmakov · Feb 9, 2020

QisTopTier said:
This is an opinion that is not commonly shared.

I know, but I actually want to play this Guilty Gear unlike the other games.

QisTopTier · Feb 9, 2020

Kalmakov said:
I know, but I actually want to play this Guilty Gear unlike the other games.

Ok, but in context now you want to but they are going to lose out on a lot of fans that stuck with them since X1 and loved that game feel (it's unique)

So do you really think throwing the old people that have been supporting the series forever to basicaly nearly start over for a couple of new people is the greatest idea in the world?

Kalmakov · Feb 9, 2020

QisTopTier said:
Once again you are basically telling long time fans to fuck off

Yeah, pretty much. What I've learned since the reveal of Strive is the GG fanbase has been one of the most miserable in the FGC. Can't be fucking excited for anything, and anytime I ever shown any excitement for Strive some douche always has to go out of his way to tell me how fucking wrong I am for being excited for this game, how they're betraying what the diehard fans want out of Guilty Gear. I don't fucking care

QisTopTier · Feb 9, 2020

Kalmakov said:
Yeah, pretty much. What I've learned since the reveal of Strive is the GG fanbase has been one of the most miserable in the FGC. Can't be fucking excited for anything, and anytime I ever shown any excitement for Strive some douche always has to go out of his way to tell me how fucking wrong I am for being excited for this game, how they're betraying what the diehard fans want out of Guilty Gear. I don't fucking care

What are you talking about? GG fans ate up Xrd, baiken reveal was one of the happiest moments in the series.

Fans love all the character reveals in strive too, the art direction is fantastic.

Kalmakov · Feb 9, 2020

QisTopTier said:
What are you talking about? GG fans ate up Xrd

Nah, they fucking didn't. Even when Xrd was revealed people were pissed because of how much they were simplifying from +R. Anytime I go on the Guilty Gear Discord it's like a circlejerk of negativity

QisTopTier · Feb 9, 2020

Kalmakov said:
Nah, they fucking didn't. Even when Xrd was revealed people were pissed because of how much they were simplifying from +R. Anytime I go on the Guilty Gear Discord it's like a circlejerk of negativity

I mean, AC+R is the series high point in terms of being a competitive fighter and as I said before XRD has issues but it's not bad. One of the biggest issues people have in Xrd is the time slow stuff. People want the match flow to be consistent.

Strive is such a far stretch away from anything the series has been that it's no shocking to see people that have been playing for years upon years get upset.

Like literally I'd personally have near 0 issues with the game if they put back in p/k Gatlings, dialed back the hitstop a bit, and got rid of the MASSIVE WOW YOU GOT A COUNTERHIT LOL time slow . I'm not a fan of RC slowdown but at least they are doing something neat with the slowdown time in this one

Deleted member 61909 · Feb 9, 2020

Kalmakov said:
Yeah, pretty much. What I've learned since the reveal of Strive is the GG fanbase has been one of the most miserable in the FGC. Can't be fucking excited for anything, and anytime I ever shown any excitement for Strive some douche always has to go out of his way to tell me how fucking wrong I am for being excited for this game, how they're betraying what the diehard fans want out of Guilty Gear. I don't fucking care

lol jesus christ dude.

Naga · Feb 9, 2020

Kalmakov said:
Change is good, y'know? The core of GG ain't being changed.

Kalmakov said:
I know, but I actually want to play this Guilty Gear unlike the other games.

Honestly this sounds like due to your second post, you're trying to say X is objectively good and core design isn't changing when it is.

Fair enough if it sounds better for you tbh (that's the whole point), but I'm not sure you should say that old fans are complaining for the sake of complaining.

Kalmakov · Feb 9, 2020

Naga said:
Honestly this sounds like due to your second post, you're trying to say X is objectively good and core design isn't changing when it is.

Fair enough if it sounds better for you tbh (that's the whole point), but I'm not sure you should say that old fans are complaining for the sake of complaining.

Are you saying like "X" as in "Guilty Gear X is an objectively good game" or just using X as a substitute for "blank"

GUILTY GEAR-STRIVE- JAEPO2020 Discussion Info Translated - "Guilty Gear is about 'warusa' (mischief)"

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