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NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,874
UPDATE 2: ArcSys have put up an Opinion and Request Form where you can send feedback, questions and opinions directly to the developers to be covered for the Developer Backyard.

UPDATE: English version is out. Original post/cliffnotes below

www.arcsystemworks.jp

Guilty Gear -Strive-

Guilty Gear -Strive- Developer’s Backyard

Katano and Ishiwatari have put out the "Developer Backyard" where they'll be interacting with the fans, respond to feedback and go into more details on Strive's design intentions. The first entry is about the results they've garnered from Strive's closed beta test. There's no english translation, but Twitter has helped us out. English translated version is up above, tweets preserved for prosperity.

 
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EggmaniMN

Banned
May 17, 2020
3,465
Maybe some day I'll get to play ABA in a new game. But apparently it won't be for at least another decade.

I just want ArcSys to stop with the overdone lobby stuff. Just give me Quick Match, Ranked Match, Player Match Lobbies with passwords. Put me in matches as quickly as possible. Tear out all the excess.
 

Naga

Alt account
Banned
Aug 29, 2019
7,850
Lol I was just going to post a thread.
I wouldn't say those tweets paint the whole picture though, there's unfortunately a lot of "we've heard your feedback but you didn't really understand what we were going for" and "we'll tweak slightly those things".

Let's wait for the official translation, but there's some parts I'm less hopeful than others, like how they say they want to keep the RISC gauge moving with the character picture, really high damage, not go back to old gatlings, this kind of thing...

Some other interesting stats:
nAjTxKE.png

1ZN1ERS.png
 

Tolby

Member
Sep 24, 2019
699
Eastern Europe
www.gematsu.com

Guilty Gear: Strive – Developer’s Backyard Volume One

Arc System Works has released the first in a series of “Developer’s Backyard” blogs for Guilty Gear: Strive, in which the development team creates a dialogue with the fans to resp…
Mr. Ishiwatari: "A central idea behind this title is that you can deal big damage without memorizing long combos as was required in previous games."

Mr Katano: "In previous Guilty Gear titles, players could cancel many normal moves into their combo parts with relative freedom. In Guilty Gear: Strive, we've made restrictions on this so that it's more difficult to combo into damaging moves from fast, small normal moves. By doing so, we've introduced a greater emphasis on choosing which normal move you use to start your combo based on the situation and your goal at the time."
These two points are why I'm looking forward to Strive.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,981
those character polls results are hilarious, Japan gonna be Japan

As someone who isn't in the Guilty Gear community but played a bit of Xrd and played the Guilty Gear event in Epic Seven... I had no idea Baiken was such a popular character in NA.

Edit: actually looking at the english website Baiken is number 1 in Europe and rest of Asia too.

Both Japan and NA seem to want Johnny tho. Why is he popular?

Edit: Same as above haha.
 

Qvoth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,967


lmao

good that they're going to rock-ify strive
surprised game system got 3+ out of 5, personally i'll give it below 3
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,687
Nice to see I'm not the only one that dislikes their use of dynamic 3D cameras during gameplay. I don't get motion sickness, but they're really distracting and often make the game look weird, i.e. Axl's running clothesline. Whatever they're doing, they aren't doing it right.

Seems people really didn't like a lot about the game in general.
 

Papertoonz

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,270
As someone who isn't in the Guilty Gear community but played a bit of Xrd and played the Guilty Gear event in Epic Seven... I had no idea Baiken was such a popular character in NA.

Both Japan and NA seem to want Johnny tho. Why is he popular?
Yeah Johnny always been popular, I've never really been sure why he's just one of those characters that are popular no matter what. Maybe it's his personalty or his fighting style people just like him

and yeah Baiken is popular in places outside of japan, the best way i can put it is that Japan isn't a big fan of her character type. From what i have gathered over time is Japan likes the more reserved characters and Baiken isn't reserved at all really


dude Zappa is never coming back. Zappa is a nightmare to do in this style of game
 

rude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,812
If the game ships with the Beta lobby, I'm not buying. One of the worst things I've ever seen in a fighting game.
 

Blizz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,432
So they're keeping the crap looking lobby, well done.

"The hit counter is so big because in previous games, it's been difficult to see the number of hits due to being hidden by the character models (or vice-versa). This is an attempt at fixing that issue." Yeah, no.
 

Qvoth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,967
johnny character design is cool and he's strong
playstyle is pretty unique too
 

Shan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,976
Man, all i'm seeing from the majority of character poll is "XRD cast once again". Excluding Bridget, Anji Mito and testament.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
12,192
I do think it's more difficult in the sense that muscle memory won't really work, but there should be fewer mechanics for new players to learn before they can enjoy playing matches.
But...? Before: "hey new player, just press buttons in a circle"
now: "hey new player, memorize this flowchart"

We've made it so that the Burst icon moves as the health bar drains in order to minimize the amount of eye movement required to check each gauge.

We've intentionally made the R.I.S.C. gauge less visible to reduce the number of gauges that first-time players try to be aware of.

The hit counter is so big because in previous games, it's been difficult to see the number of hits due to being hidden by the character models (or vice-versa). This is an attempt at fixing that issue.
Ishiwatari, I love you, but please just hire someone who actually knows UX.
 

Naga

Alt account
Banned
Aug 29, 2019
7,850
So yeah, english version confirms they don't really want to change that much regardless of feedback.

Gatling restrictions
While this may seem contradictory to the reduced length of combos and the restrictions on gatlings, I believe we can make this happen through a combination of other mechanics.
3D camera
While we're working on improving this so that more players can enjoy the game without unnecessary stress, I'd like to continue with this idea of challenging ourselves to include new camera work like never seen before.
The whole UI paragraph is a "nah you don't understand" post.
Lobbies is them being more concerned about the technical issues than the usability ones too.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,163



The only thing, and I mean the *only* thing that will redeem that lobby is if they go back to the cabinet system from every other modern ASW fighter, and even then, I'd still much prefer normal lobbies.

Based on the sound of that, it seems like they might be going back to the cabinet system?


Otherwise, the whole "we'll work on it" approach on the gatlings, damage and UI doesn't make my interest grow. I'll still pay attention to this game's development cycle.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,611
Disappointing to see Jam only cracked top 5 in the Asia and Europe polls while bottom five in both the JP and NA ones. Surprising to see the former two polls have the exact same results as well. Admittedly also surprised to see Ram more popular than El in every region, especially when I'm pretty sure more people actually played the latter.

Either way, seems like they don't intend to pay much actual mind to any of the feedback, so I still don't intend to invest in this.
 
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Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,819
::Sigh:: I'm never gonna see ABA again huh?

Oh well, I guess as long as I get Bai and Bridge, I'm fine.

Love me some ABA though.


The only thing, and I mean the *only* thing that will redeem that lobby is if they go back to the cabinet system from every other modern ASW fighter, and even then, I'd still much prefer normal lobbies.

Based on the sound of that, it seems like they might be going back to the cabinet system?


Otherwise, the whole "we'll work on it" approach on the gatlings, damage and UI doesn't make my interest grow. I'll still pay attention to this game's development cycle.

I mean they could copy what Dems Fighting Herds does, which is 2d sprites on an isometric board, so individual sprites are essentially moving kiosks.
 

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
28,125
HOS? (EDIT: oh, Holy Order Sol)

And for the most part Japan and NA wants the same characters.

EDIT: Asia and EU as well.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,192
Based on the sound of that, it seems like they might be going back to the cabinet system?
Not what I got from the english report.

Mr. Ishiwatari: With GGST, we're trying out a new design compared to prior ASW titles by using 2D pixel art style 3D avatars and such.

This venture is necessary to create new mechanics and fun that wasn't possible with the 3D avatars we've used previously. While they weren't included in the closed beta test, we'll be showing them off at the next opportunity.

In addition, we've seen many opinions that the style doesn't mesh well with the world of Guilty Gear. In regards to this concern, we hope you'll keep on the look-out for new information as we'll be showing you new designs that weren't included yet in the closed beta test.
 

Nightfall

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,979
Germany
Oh man, Daisuke and co desperately wants convince people of their vision.
And that's where the usual debate starts: should developers deliver their unique vision or just deliver a best of public survey product? I personally think the former with a sprinkle of the latter. Just giving in to every fan demand will seriously mess with the final product.
 

Kaguya

Member
Jun 19, 2018
6,419
They're fucking going in with the stupid lobbies! I'd take an MS-DOS menu for lobbies over what they have, it'll at least be more functional.
 

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
28,125
And that's where the usual debate starts: should developers deliver their unique vision or just deliver a best of public survey product? I personally think the former with a sprinkle of the latter. Just giving in to every fan demand will seriously mess with the final product.

There's a line that the director of Nioh said a few years back.

Of course there are instances like that where we decide not to listen to our fans. We're not servants, we're game creators! Regardless, whatever we decide, we will sincerely heed those words from our fans first.
 

BadWolf

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,148
To be expected, they will make the game that they want to make.

Especially for launch, they can patch stuff out later if it still doesn't click.
 

VariantX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,934
Columbia, SC
Hope they tone that damage down. Its too damn high. Wayy too high. Felt like I couldn't actually play the game and explore the character because the opponent was dead in 2 combos.
 

Laiza

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,171
Ramlethal better get in. Only character in the entire franchise I've ever invested in, and she's in the top 7 and up in every single country.
 

Naga

Alt account
Banned
Aug 29, 2019
7,850
And that's where the usual debate starts: should developers deliver their unique vision or just deliver a best of public survey product? I personally think the former with a sprinkle of the latter. Just giving in to every fan demand will seriously mess with the final product.
Of course they shouldn't give in to every fan demand, but when the feedback is unanimously negative towards some points, you should probably wonder if there isn't an issue somewhere. And it's not a comprehension issue there.
There's a line that the director of Nioh said a few years back.
Yeah. But it helped that Nioh got mostly positive feedback from the first alpha, which is not the case here.
 

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
28,125
Of course they shouldn't give in to every fan demand, but when the feedback is unanimously negative towards some points, you should probably wonder if there isn't an issue somewhere. And it's not a comprehension issue there.

Yeah. But it helped that Nioh got mostly positive feedback from the first alpha, which is not the case here.

Fair point, and the parts that did get unanimously negative response for the developers made changes.

Durability got changed to familiarity, the penalty for Ki exhaust got adjusted. etc.
 

Zeal543

Next Level Seer
Member
May 15, 2020
5,851
Sounds like they're taking a lot of the issues to heart, that's good. Let's see what the final product looks like because I was not excited for strive as it looked prior to the delay
 

Naga

Alt account
Banned
Aug 29, 2019
7,850
Fair point, and the parts that did get unanimously negative response for the developers made changes.

Durability got changed to familiarity, the penalty for Ki exhaust got adjusted. etc.
This wasn't even close to unanimously negative for Nioh
www.eurogamer.net

Nioh survey results show its alpha favoured by westerners

Earlier this month Koei Tecmo release an alpha demo of Team Ninja's third-person combat game Nioh to much acclaim. It w…

Again, definitely not comparable to the results we got for GGST and the weak response to it.
 

Zyrox

One Winged Slayer Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,648
First up: I like that they're doing this dev blog sort of thing and be a little more transparent about their thought process while designing this game. Kudos to them for that.
Now as to their responses to the feedback...ehhh. I don't know. Sounds like they really wanna stick to their current design, maybe making some slight changes here and there. Don't know if that will please the fans in the end.

RE: Damage, what's the point of raising damage if you plan to tone it down later anyway? A little silly. Besides, I think the impressions of high damage is also partially the fault of the awful guts system. The first half of the health bar is worth much less than the second half which makes early combos/hits look super crazy, wish they just got rid of that garbage mechanic entirely. Why not keep the health bar simple if your goal is to make everything simpler?

Gatlings, I don't think they fully understand why people have an issue with the new system. They think restricting it makes players have to learn fewer mechanics but is that really the case? The gatling system was more open in previous games. Sure that may make it seem more complicated at first glance but once you understood the basic gist of the gatling system there was really not much more to learn. It was intuitive. GGST version has you basically have to learn multiple mini gatling strings which makes it much less intuitive and more difficult to grasp at first glance. Their response makes it seem like they don't quite understand that part.

The camera I haven't had any issues with but I can understand that it might be too crazy for some people. Good that they're looking into that.

Battle UI, so they want to make the hit counter easier to see but not the risc gauge for some reason? Because the risc gauge is one gauge too many and could overwhelm casuals? If you are this concerned about that maybe reevaluate having a risc mechanic in the first place. This feels like them trying to have their cake (more complicated, higher level mechanics) and eat it too (trying to fool casuals into the thinking the game might be very simple by making crucial mechanics like risc hard to discern in the battle ui).
They should play to their strengths instead of doing this wishiwashy stuff that benefits no one in the end.


Lobbies...guess they're sticking with their current design. As it was in the beta it was not good, both from a visual and a usability standpoint. Dunno why they are so attached to this given the feedback they've received. Since they seem to continue having this lobby system I hope that they're improving the usability a ton. Fingers crossed even though I'd rather have their old 3D lobbies back (and just standard menu based matchmaking for those who want it).


Yea, once again I'm happy they're being more open but their response to the feedback hasn't exactly alleviated all my concerns. Gotta stay cautiously optimistic I guess as they at least seem to be listening somewhat.
 

Shan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,976
Also, can't say i'm surprised they're sticking with their awful lobbies. It looked too far in development to be canned completely. Some of the talked points kinda feel like a joke at time with the way they explained why x is like that. Like the insane damage and the reason behind the ridiculously huge combo numbers.

Still interested to see it's development cycle but can't say, from a newcomers perspective, i'd buy the game.
 

Toño

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,049
Spain
I hope they add Jam , Johnny and Jack-O... Wow, I only play with characters that names begins with J...

ABA was cool too.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,163
Not what I got from the english report.


What got me was the whole "2D pixel art style 3D avatars". That made me think it would be something like the current lobby, only on a 3D plane instead of a 2D plane.


You might be right in that it's just the beta lobby only, "optimized", for lack of a better term.
 

Kaguya

Member
Jun 19, 2018
6,419
It's okay if they want to stick with what they did, even if the actual results turned out to be the opposite of their stated intended design like the UI and Gatling changes, it's their game to make. Keeping in mind this beta was intended specifically to gauge feedback so people will give their opinions about the game.

But things like their new lobby is so extreme, it isn't different from them them fighting for something that's just objectively wrong, like their use of delay based netcodes for years until they finally got broken into switching to rollback. This aspect of the game is mainly there to serve the process of players finding matches online, there's no right or wrong way to design it... Until their design get in the way of that process.
 

ArjanN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,146
Maybe some day I'll get to play ABA in a new game. But apparently it won't be for at least another decade.

I just want ArcSys to stop with the overdone lobby stuff. Just give me Quick Match, Ranked Match, Player Match Lobbies with passwords. Put me in matches as quickly as possible. Tear out all the excess.

I dunno if this was exclusive to the PC version of Xrd (i think there was some difference with the console version), but there you just had those options as well as the more elaborate lobbies with characters running around.