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platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,072
Good post and I completely agree. These first few PS5 games arent really pushing the hardware to its limits and honestly thats just par for the course, just like the first few PS4 games didnt push the hardware like RDR2 did. Maybe a tech demo like Matrix Awakens could be argued to push the hardware, with its realtime Lumen lighting which might nor run on last gen, but HFW isnt doing anything like that.
It's fun to look back at articles between the PS3 to PS4 transition just to show how dumb this cross gen talk is.

onlysp.escapistmagazine.com

The Next-Gen Difference: Assassin’s Creed IV: Black Flag | Review - OnlySP

Single player video games coverage. Every day.
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,072
I mean of course you do when you think I'm arguing that Horizon should be a "fundamentally different game" when I'm really just disappointed that we won't be getting flying mounts and such. If you're gonna go straight to hyperbole then ofc the other person is going to seem silly.
Who said we weren't getting flying mounts ? GG hasn't said they aren't there yet?
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,279
Who said we weren't getting flying mounts ? GG hasn't said they aren't there yet?

I'd be very, very happy and shocked if we managed to get flying mounts whilst having those graphics on PS4.

Though tbh my main disappointment from the cross-gen stuff is Ragnarok. I can live without flying mounts and such but GoW's gameplay was actively made worse for me by the restrictive, HDD-based level design. That was its worst aspect to me and it being cross-gen almost guarantees it's return.
 

nakedjehuty

Member
May 28, 2021
50
It's fun to look back at articles between the PS3 to PS4 transition just to show how dumb this cross gen talk is.

onlysp.escapistmagazine.com

The Next-Gen Difference: Assassin’s Creed IV: Black Flag | Review - OnlySP

Single player video games coverage. Every day.

I think most of us know this talk is dumb. But personally, I have no other palce to talk about this and vent my frustration

The fact that we are at least 4 years to real next-gen games is sooo frustrating.

I might be already a father living on Mars and playing Metaverse games by that time.
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,072
I'd be very, very happy and shocked if we managed to get flying mounts whilst having those graphics on PS4.

Though tbh my main disappointment from the cross-gen stuff is Ragnarok. I can live without flying mounts and such but GoW's gameplay was actively made worse for me by the restrictive, HDD-based level design. That was its worst aspect to me and it being cross-gen almost guarantees it's return.
As a sequel they wouldn't have rocked the boat. For them to totally revamp GOW they pretty much would have to blow away all their tools. So it makes sense exactly why they are going that way. Almost ALL experimentation is done in pre-production so even if this game or some of the others were PS5 only all the game mechanics and level designs would still be PS4 oriented.

The revolution is still coming but all that takes time. But at the same time when they are ready to dev, dev time should be a lot shorter since these consoles aren't totally divorced from the PS4 Dev environment.

Personally I think some dev cycles get shortened because of just the SSDs and fast loading to quickly iterate over stuff and I think in time we are gonna get some really awesome stuff.

Also I think when you get some of these games next year I think you will be surprised at how much they were able to leverage purely because they can load the whole games faster than ever.
 

Jiraiya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,279

big_z

Member
Nov 2, 2017
7,794
Those are some hand picked images alright. Looks pretty good though with the exception of the picture where the donkey is standing in the water. That one hints at the last gen cutbacks being implemented.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,315
embaressing. We know the IQ won't be that good on PS4, in game, so what's the point trotting these out?
What? They're about on par with HZD on a base PS4

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JomanC137

Member
Oct 27, 2017
290
Speaking of gatekeeping, I'm not sure if games being crossgen is indirectly giving us more 60fps games on PS5, but man I'm glad it's happening.
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,072

Loudninja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,191
Speaking of gatekeeping, I'm not sure if games being crossgen is indirectly giving us more 60fps games on PS5, but man I'm glad it's happening.
Demon Souls And Ratchet and clank had 60fps modes too, just seems like he direction we are going atleast for now since these are early games.
 
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FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,090
Los Angeles, CA
Speaking of gatekeeping, I'm not sure if games being crossgen is indirectly giving us more 60fps games on PS5, but man I'm glad it's happening.

to be honest, i think that's a part of it in at least some capacity.

when these new system's launched with cross-gen support, some devs kind of set an expectation for many with cross gen games getting support for 60fps modes. in a way, it allowed them to have their cake and eat it too, in that they can push the gorgeous, high fidelity graphics modes running at 30fps, but also appease the gamers that prefer framerate over graphical bells and whistles. That way, they can still flaunt how amazing the graphics for PS5/Xbox Series X games are, and still have modes that prioritize performance, like many PC games that let player's customize their experience in the way they prefer.

now, if a game doesn't release with some kind of Performance mode, it gets dinged for it. I think, going forward, and depending on the game (some games target 60fps right off the bat, like Returnal), most games are going to have 60fps modes. And then, publishers, being all about maximizing profit, saw that some last gen games that received 60fps patches was like breathing new life into titles that they considered to have reached their sales potential, and now they can drive PS5 owners to those backwards compatible games, and maybe get a few more sales. It's one of those rare win/win scenarios for everyone involved. I know backwards compatibility and cross-gen have made the usual painful year one of the PS5's life cycle infinitely more bearable for me compared to the start of the PS4 life cycle, where I was absolutely hurting for things to play on it, and kept my PS3 hooked up for over a year while I waited for more PS4 titles to release. With consoles like the PS5 and Xbox Series X having strong backwards compatibility, with some of those games benefitting greatly from just running on the console (like games with unlocked framerates running at a smooth 60fps, no patch required, to other games having more stable performance in their 30fps modes), this first year has been, for me, at least, fantastic, and I think cross-gen games are also benefitting from this as well.

And then there's Insomniac, who really set the tempo for pulling off impressive feats like 60fps raytracing modes on top of the expected Fidelity and Performance modes. They're an outlier, but they certainly raised a bar there, outside of releasing 3 games in a, what, 6 month period, all excellent, and showpiece games for the PS5. Bluepoint also brought it with a gorgeous game running at 60fps, and a launch title to boot.

It's rare for me to get a console at launch. I usually wait a while, because I like to have at least 4 or 5 games that have me genuinely interested before I invest in a new console, but between Spider-Man Remastered, Miles Morales, Demon's Souls, and Sackboy, I was sold day one. I still can't believe I managed to snag a PS5 on launch day, and to have such quality games that same day was unlike any console launch I had experienced. And of course, Astro's Playroom was amazing, and I really hope we get more of that series soon too!

Personally, I'm not a stickler for framerate. I played Rift Apart in Fidelity Mode, because I wanted to see all the beautiful effects Insomniac were able to put into the game, but I liked having the option to be able to play at 60fps during a second playthrough.

I've been gaming a long time, and I feel confident in saying that this has been one of the best debut years of new consoles in a very, very long time. The fact that we got these new machines (PS5, Xbox Series X/S), during a global pandemic, and then such high quality software to play on them in the first year is just nuts to me! The cross-gen and BC support has been nothing but a good thing, in my opinion.
 

blame space

Resettlement Advisor
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,420
it's because they're just super ps4 pros and super xbox ones. generations are done after this
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,086
Looks awesome for a PS4 game. Not sure how solid it runs tho.

Hopefully GG will prioritize framerate over resolution if needed.

Still mad at the fact that Sucker Punch opted for native 1080p on base PS4 when GOT framerate can never seem to hit 30fps while in combat. If it means having a stable performance just drop resolution to 900p or use a dynamic solution.
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,090
Los Angeles, CA
I think people forget how much of a looker Horizon Zero Dawn was! Forgive the photo spam, as well as the image quality, as these were old photos I took on the PS4 Pro and uploaded to my old flikr account I haven't used in years, so they're not lossless images, but still, I think the art direction shines through. These photos were also taken pre-photo mode, and just directly from grabbing screens as I played way back when

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Again, apologies for the photo spam. But I think Horizon 2 is going to be just fine on last gen consoles.

I've only played a little of the 60fps mode of Horizon Zero Dawn on PS5, but it looks stunning still. I should take some new screenshots someday, actually using photo mode this time lol
 

JomanC137

Member
Oct 27, 2017
290
We're definetly transitioning to an era where more gamers are demanding either higher refresh rates or fidelity/performance options, and developers will naturally follow the market. It explains why most devs are breathing new life to old games like Uncharted and TLOU pt. II, while at the same time, non-crossgen games like Demon's souls and R&C include a 60fps mode.
 

Loudninja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,191
People really dont get the fact that we getting these game so early in the gen because they started doing the PS4 . So it does not matte if it was PS5 exclusive or not.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,754
Here's a reminder that GT7, Horizon and God of War were all supposed to drop this year. Sony apparently wanted year 1 of the PS5's life cycle to service both PS5 exclusives and also offer amazing experiences that PS4 users could also play. That obviously didn't happen due to pandemic delays which is why we're seeing cross-gen in 2022.

Beyond these 3 games I'm not really expecting to see much in the way of cross-gen first party content beyond things like MLB and maybe a MP title like Factions 2.

Either way, we have yet to see anything from any of these games to suggest the experience on PS5 will be bogged down by cross-gen development or that the devs had to cut back on whatever their vision for the game was due to the cross-gen development. For all we know they'd be making the exact same games and going with the exact same design decisions even if they were PS5 exclusive.
 

Scrillz

Banned
Jan 4, 2021
135
Though tbh my main disappointment from the cross-gen stuff is Ragnarok. I can live without flying mounts and such but GoW's gameplay was actively made worse for me by the restrictive, HDD-based level design. That was its worst aspect to me and it being cross-gen almost guarantees it's return.

I keep hearing about these assumptions for GoW Ragnarok but I don't understand why PS5 version can't just remove the artificial slowdown all together? For example, I remember how annoying it was to have to climb mountains slowly to reach different areas on the map. Now that Ragnarok has a grapple hook mechanic, shouldn't it be relatively simple for the developers to permit more traversal freedom for PS5 version and only limit for PS4?
 

ElNino

Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,706
Thank the heavens you don't make the decisions then because we would still be playing on NES or something.
No we would not because Nintendo would not be selling or supporting it.

If Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo manufacture and support a platform with several years of overlap with the following one, then I have zero issues with them (or any studio) making games that support both.

Lol, yes!?

I didn't buy a next Gen console to play current Gen games.
HFW on the PS5 will be a PS5 game though. Just because it was created on the PS4 doesn't change that, and if the PS4 didn't exist no one would question this as being a "true" PS5 game.

On the PS4/PS5 topic though, have they said if saves will be cross gen compatible? It would be nice to be able to pick up my save whether I'm on the PS5 or PS4 Pro.
 
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Nola

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
8,025
Oh lordly look how held back the game is grrr


Cool

except we just got proof a couple days ago that indeed the old consoles are absolutely, unequivocally holding games back.

Game looks good, but I did buy my console because Sony told me they "believe in generations" and it turns out they were just trying to win some cheap marketing points
 

Loudninja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,191
Cool

except we just got proof a couple days ago that indeed the old consoles are absolutely, unequivocally holding games back.

Game looks good, but I did buy my console because Sony told me they "believe in generations" and it turns out they were just trying to win some cheap marketing points
Cool what was the proof? Something straight from the devs not assumptions.
 

Nola

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
8,025
Ok what was the proof? Something straight from the devs not assumptions.


we can all play it my man.

Fact is when you have to be able to develop a game for a ten year old console, sacrifices are made.

I'll gladly wager that Horizon 3, which will assuredly be developed from the ground up with the PS5 as the baseline, will have a fairly significant leap in term of visuals and design due to removing tech limitations.
 
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s y

Member
Nov 8, 2017
10,430
how is it possible that horizon looks better graphically than pure, coded to the metal ultra ssd designed AAA next gen exclusives like suicide squad or forspoken? did the devs forget to turn off the crossgen switch?

how come they don't look like the 15fps matrix tech demo?
 

VanDoughnut

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,424
Game looks good on ps4.


we can all play it my man.

Fact is when you have to be able to develop a game for a ten year old console, sacrifices are made.

I'll gladly wager that Horizon 3, which will assuredly be developed from the ground up with the PS5 as the baseline, will have a fairly significant leap in term of visuals and design due to removing tech limitations.


Eh I'm just gonna enjoy the awesome gameplay and insane visuals of Forbidden West. Not really even that impressed with the matrix visually, cool tech though.
 

RedHeat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,685


we can all play it my man.

Fact is when you have to be able to develop a game for a ten year old console, sacrifices are made.

I'll gladly wager that Horizon 3, which will assuredly be developed from the ground up with the PS5 as the baseline, will have a fairly significant leap in term of visuals and design due to removing tech limitations.

Only 1 PS studio I'm pretty sure uses Unreal Engine of any sort.

how is it possible that horizon looks better graphically than pure, coded to the metal ultra ssd designed AAA next gen exclusives like suicide squad or forspoken? did the devs forget to turn off the crossgen switch?

how come they don't look like the 15fps matrix tech demo?
First-party studios are pretty much the only ones who can properly take full advantage of hardware and primely optimize to the fullest extent. I mean, you look at the God of War PC recommended spec sheets (not that those are usually accurate) and it's clear how much work goes into having these games work so well on native hardware.
 

CosmicGP

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,879
how is it possible that horizon looks better graphically than pure, coded to the metal ultra ssd designed AAA next gen exclusives like suicide squad or forspoken? did the devs forget to turn off the crossgen switch?

how come they don't look like the 15fps matrix tech demo?

Somone here said it's still early for fully nextgen game engines, whatever games releasing soon are likely heavily based on last gen architecture. (That includes horizon and GOW, meaning from the beginning, the chances of them being nextgen showcases were low :( ....)

That horizon looks better - I mean, it's Sony first party exclusives - they have to look better than any old multiplatform game.

Forspoken... yeah. Putting the words "ultra ssd" and "next gen exclusive" next to it (which is what I also associated it with since "Project Athia") is friggin hilarious now.
 
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Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,315
Cool what was the proof? Something straight from the devs not assumptions.
Come on, cross-gen games do hold games back one way or other, this is just factual. It doesn't mean Forbidden West won't look astonishing, but it's obvious it'd look even better if the devs didn't have to worry about supporting ancient hardware.
 

RankFTW

Member
Oct 28, 2017
716
Scotland
Looks like a PS2 game.

Still looks really good for an 8 year old console. I don't know whether to get it on PS5 or wait for PC.
 

imapioneer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,057
I doubt anyone would look at Forbidden West running on a PS5 and conclude that it's being held back by the last-gen version. Out of all the open world games I've seen, this one is clearly the most pleasing to look at. Guerilla's tech prowess and gorgeous art direction really shines in the footage they've shared so far.
I would say it's very much being held back by old hardware at this point. Most of the grass doesn't react, animations could be much better, a lot more destructability, experimenting with ray traced global illumination...etc. we are basically getting a core ps4 game with a next-gen makeover.
 

flipswitch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,946
We really need to see better quality screens and some direct footage to know, but being a first party game you're in good hands and I am sure it will be great.