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SilentPanda

Member
Nov 6, 2017
13,725
Earth
A majority of Europeans believe America's political system is broken, that China will be the world's leading power within a decade, and that Joe Biden will be unable to halt his country's decline on the world stage, according to a report.

While many welcomed Biden's victory in November's US election, more Europeans than not feel that after four years of Donald Trump the US cannot be trusted, according to the study by the European Council on Foreign Relations.

The survey of 15,000 people in 11 European countries, conducted at the end of last year, found that the shift in European sentiment towards the US in the wake of the Trump presidency had led to a corresponding unwillingness to support Washington in potential international disputes.

The survey found that 51% of those polled did not agree with the statement that under Biden the US was likely to resolve its internal divisions and seek to address international issues such as climate change, peace in the Middle East, relations with China or European security.

Amid a widespread sense of growing Chinese superiority, 79% of those polled in Spain, 72% in Portugal, 72% in Italy and 63% in France said they thought China would overtake the US as the world's leading superpower within the next decade.

Just over 32% of all respondents – and a startling 53% of respondents in Germany – felt that after voting for Trump, Americans could not be trusted. Only in Hungary and Poland did significantly more people disagree with that view than agree.

Just 10% of those polled saw the US as a "reliable" security partner that would always protect Europe, while at least 60% in every country polled said they doubted their country could depend on US support in the event of a crisis.


www.theguardian.com

Majority of Europeans fear Biden unable to fix 'broken' US

ECFR survey finds more Europeans than not say US cannot be trusted after four years of Trump

The study
ecfr.eu

The crisis of American power: How Europeans see Biden’s America

Most Europeans rejoiced at Joe Biden’s victory in the US presidential election, but they do not think he can help America make a comeback as the pre-eminent global leader…
 

Speevy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,352
He's not going to fix what is fundamentally wrong with our system, but he may be able to help some people whose lives were upended by the past 9 months or so.
 

Keio

Member
Nov 5, 2017
922
Any attempt by Biden to fix international prestige will inevitably be branded Apology Tour 2.0.

Thanks Obama.
 

weekev

Is this a test?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,215
Biden is better than Trump but he's an establishment politician. You guys could do with Bernie as pres. Unfortunately he is too old now but hopefully one of his proteges in the squad will rise to power. Then we will some some actual progress.

I just hope Biden listens to the progressive arm of his own party before listening to anyone in the GOP when setting policies on healthcare and the environment. I don't count on it though.
 

Djalminha

Alt-Account
Banned
Sep 22, 2020
2,103
As an European, I have no hope he'll fix the major systemic issues, I think that'd take decades. Like, you can't expect him to get rid of thousands of nuclear weapons, dismantle an obscenely large army, end the war culture, inequality, poverty, a capitalist system based on exploiting other parts of the world, a completely broken for profit health system, systemic racism or get rid of millions of guns in 4 years. It's unrealistic to say the least.

I do hope that he will start a couple of those changes, like the healthcare problem or gun control and, more importantly since it affects every single living creature on the planet, take climate change seriously. That last one should be non negotiable, we are already too late.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,317
No president will fix the inherent problems with the governing system because they (dems and republicans) both benefit from a two party system
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,212
Greater Vancouver
Biden is a band-aid and some polysporin when what you need is a bullet removed, and maybe years of physical therapy.

Like yeah, he's better than the horrifically low bar of Trump if that's the standard you want to continue operating on, but he's not going to "fix" the US. He's a moderately capable driver while the last guy was taking methamphetamines and screaming about driving the schoolbus off the next turn.

The US was broken long before Trump, and it's what allowed him to be elected in the first place.
 

Deleted member 28564

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,604
User Banned (1 Day): Trolling; Driving Thread Derail over Multiple Posts
Everyone will go back to loving America (and hating America due to jealousy) by the end of the year. And Biden could be the greatest president in US history, if congressional shenanigans don't get out of hand. His day one initiatives are already going to do wonders.
 

sfedai0

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,955
Lets start with misinformation and holding media outlets, social media, politicians, etc accountable for their actions. Until we can stop the indoctrination, there will always be this divide that makes any progress impossible.
 

Irminsul

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,039
Some interesting graphs in the original study I'd like to highlight (but the whole study is well worth reading):

europeans-america-10_rrjh4.png


The notion in the Guardian article about Poland and Hungary in this question is pretty misleading. "Neither" is actually the biggest block for Poland and nearly as big as "(strongly) disagree" for Hungary. The latter being bigger than "(strongly) agree" is true for the Netherlands as well, but I guess that doesn't fit the narrative.

Also, that Germany result is quite something.

europeans-america-4_su2k8b.png


Poland and Hungary be like, "LMAO you wanna see a real broken system?"

europeans-america-8_e0ajc9.png


Really interesting how strong the "Europe" block is in the UK and how different the results are Europe-wide.

europeans-america-12_l2kz0.png


europeans-america-13_tljki.png


These two should really worry American policy makers. Even in Poland, more people want to stay neutral in a conflict against Russia. And I don't think the risk of invasion is a big part of that.

europeans-america-11_36k57.png


I guess this is unsurprising and also something that tech giants might have had a bigger role in than Trump, to be quite honest.

europeans-america-mapwxko4.png


Some fun for the end. See, dear Frenchmen? We actually do like you!
 

Video Kojima

Banned
Apr 5, 2020
2,541
Over 70 million people voted for Trump. Only 11% of republicans blame Trump for the insurrection.
America is actually two nations, and it really has to come to terms with this.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
America is unfixable. A lot of it's core problems predates Trump (he is just a symptom of it) and will never be fixed when the only two parties benefit from it while a lot of Americans will never stop believing their fake "American Dream".
 

JimNastics

Member
Jan 11, 2018
1,383
Everyone will go back to loving America (and hating America due to jealousy) by the end of the year. And Biden could be the greatest president in US history, if congressional shenanigans don't get out of hand. His day one initiatives are already going to do wonders.

I haven't "loved" America since I was a naive little kid and loved WWF, I think many Europeans start to understand what the US really is as they reach adulthood. I'll never "love" America, and I don't hate it due to "jealousy". You post is really fucking stupid.
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,536
This is certainly how I feel (live in UK). I hope I'm wrong but the level of support for Trump, despite his loss, was extremely depressing. It's very hard to feel that things won't get worse before they get better now. Every election is now a knife-edge between something sensible and something completely insane.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,317
Some interesting graphs in the original study I'd like to highlight (but the whole study is well worth reading):

europeans-america-10_rrjh4.png


The notion in the Guardian article about Poland and Hungary in this question is pretty misleading. "Neither" is actually the biggest block for Poland and nearly as big as "(strongly) disagree" for Hungary. The latter being bigger than "(strongly) agree" is true for the Netherlands as well, but I guess that doesn't fit the narrative.

Also, that Germany result is quite something.

europeans-america-4_su2k8b.png


Poland and Hungary be like, "LMAO you wanna see a real broken system?"

europeans-america-8_e0ajc9.png


Really interesting how strong the "Europe" block is in the UK and how different the results for all
The hit the US took under Trump in countries like germany won't be something Biden can fix. Every poll you look at domestically shows there's been a shift away from the US to a more EU centered and in some parts pro China shift.
 

Moff

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,785
Bernie was your best chance to fix anything

but I don't see China being the #1 superpower in 10 years.

militarily? impossible
culturally? impossible, at least from europes point of view
economically? possibly
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,902
Scotland
If the Iraq War back in the 2000s wasn't enough for the world population to lose faith in the US and its foreign policy then Trump's 4 years certainly is. It's gonna take a lot more than words for Biden to fix many many years of US fuckery.

Everyone will go back to loving America (and hating America due to jealousy) by the end of the year. And Biden could be the greatest president in US history, if congressional shenanigans don't get out of hand. His day one initiatives are already going to do wonders.

How naive of you to think everyone loved America in the first place.

Also, nobody is jealous of "no workers rights and national healthcare" America. Who you fooling? 😂
 

Deleted member 28564

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,604
I haven't "loved" America since I was a naive little kid and loved WWF, I think many Europeans start to understand what the US really is as they reach adulthood. I'll never "love" America, and I don't hate it due to "jealousy". You post is really fucking stupid.
I think there is potential for magic between us. But first you need to accept reality. Unless this is just Europeans playing hard to get?
How naive of you to think everyone loved America in the first place.
Hate, as well, but only due to jealousy.
 

Erpy

Member
May 31, 2018
2,997
Biden's problem is that in the eyes of many Europeans, he's Dr Jekyll. (and Bernie would have been in the same position) Sure, he can promise that under his leadership the US won't behave like a rogue state, but many Europeans will look at the long term and, given the US' political pendulum realities, question whether anything Biden says or does will eventually prevent Mr Hyde from taking control again. The fact that Trump generated significant turnout himself means that they'll feel Biden's "this is not who we are" rings hollow.

In addition, other countries have seen that many of the US' guardrails, which were supposed to protect against stuff like presidents withdrawing from international treaties or abandoning allies on a whim, were all norm-based and mean zilch against a president determined to break them.

Europeans generally like Biden personally, it's just that they realize the US has such systemic defects it's impossible for one man and his flimsy majority to fix that.
 
Mar 3, 2019
1,831
User Warned: Whataboutism
I wonder how many European countries who think America is unfixable have their own far right parties gaining in popularity? Let's dispel the notion that Europe is some idealized utopia in contrast
 

Deleted member 31092

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 5, 2017
10,783
Everyone will go back to loving America (and hating America due to jealousy) by the end of the year. And Biden could be the greatest president in US history, if congressional shenanigans don't get out of hand. His day one initiatives are already going to do wonders.

I'm so jelous of not living in the US and not being able to afford basic human rights like a universal healtcare system :(
 

Jonnax

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,920
Everyone will go back to loving America (and hating America due to jealousy) by the end of the year. And Biden could be the greatest president in US history, if congressional shenanigans don't get out of hand. His day one initiatives are already going to do wonders.
You're joking right?

Many people in countries hate America for destroying their lives.
 

Oreiller

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,847
Everyone will go back to loving America (and hating America due to jealousy) by the end of the year. And Biden could be the greatest president in US history, if congressional shenanigans don't get out of hand. His day one initiatives are already going to do wonders.
lmao, yeah, we're all jealous of the country with monthly school shootings.
 

hannybunny24

Member
Jun 25, 2018
537
Germany
Count me as one of those sceptics. The damage done will shake the US and the World for years and years. Not that it wasn't on that path anyway, Trump is just a catalyst in many ways.

Meanwhile, China has been increasingly aggressive in its expansion trough economic ties, loans, trade routes, foreign military bases, trade agreements, soft imperialism outsmarting, outmanoeuvring and outplaying Trump/the US at every step of the way and it gives me the chills. We are certainly in for some global changes in power structure.
 

Deleted member 28564

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,604
Care to elaborate on what the world will be jealous about? I'm genuinely intrigued.
Everything, except the things that don't merit jealousy. But those are few and far in between.
I'm so jelous of not living in the US and not being able to afford basic human rights like a universal healtcare system :(
The rest of us don't get the privilege to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for a simple medical procedure :/
If America didn't have its problems, it'd just outshine everyone else in every aspect, instead of most aspects.
 

Irminsul

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,039
I wonder how many European countries who think America is unfixable have their own far right parties gaining in popularity? Let's dispel the notion that Europe is some idealized utopia in contrast
Who's doing that, exactly? And your question is only valid if the people in said European countries wouldn't acknowledge those problems. Nice whataboutism, in any case.
 

JDSN

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,129
Everyone will go back to loving America (and hating America due to jealousy) by the end of the year. And Biden could be the greatest president in US history, if congressional shenanigans don't get out of hand. His day one initiatives are already going to do wonders.
*Laughs in free healthcare and extended sick leave*
 

iapetus

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,078
Some interesting graphs in the original study I'd like to highlight (but the whole study is well worth reading):

europeans-america-10_rrjh4.png


The notion in the Guardian article about Poland and Hungary in this question is pretty misleading. "Neither" is actually the biggest block for Poland and nearly as big as "(strongly) disagree" for Hungary. The latter being bigger than "(strongly) agree" is true for the Netherlands as well, but I guess that doesn't fit the narrative.

Also, that Germany result is quite something.

europeans-america-4_su2k8b.png


Poland and Hungary be like, "LMAO you wanna see a real broken system?"

Those Great Britain numbers show signs of a country in desperate need of a mirror.
 

KDR_11k

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
5,235
I think the central design elements of the American system render it unfixable, the election system allows only two parties to matter while most systems aren't able to handle a majority abusing them. The first amendment makes misinformation and hatred unstoppable while the second amendment makes sure that a riled up person can cause tremendous damage. As a whole this promotes extremism in every aspect of life and makes compromise harder as it's so easy to split any question into two camps with at least one hating the other absolutely. You've seen the bullshit over masks, something so trivial can be turned into a major identity issue that then promotes violent extremism.

Instead of "our checks and balances make sure a fascist in power cannot oppress us without the support of the majority" the system should be designed to prevent fascism from spreading and getting into power in the first place. But the massive division in the country also makes sure all these fundamental problems cannot be fixed. This will collapse sooner or later.
 

Ayato_Kanzaki

Member
Nov 22, 2017
1,481
Everyone will go back to loving America (and hating America due to jealousy) by the end of the year. And Biden could be the greatest president in US history, if congressional shenanigans don't get out of hand. His day one initiatives are already going to do wonders.

You're way overdosing on the american exceptionnalism kool-aid.

Yeah, I'm sure the middle-east hate America because of jealousy. Not because US drones attacks often kill innocents, with no scrutiny or accountability, and often without authorisation of local governements. Not because the US support dictators and supply them with weapons. Not because the US interfered with what, 25? elections of foreign governements in the last few decades. And not because US companies strong-arm other nations into getting their natural ressources at low cost.

Add the televangelists, the gun violence, the racist police, the ruinous healthcare, the hyperpartisan politics... You'd need to pay me a lot to live in this failure of a country.

The only thing I'm jealous about is that you have a large range of choice when you want a burger. Around me it's only McDonald or Burger King.
 

Haunted

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
2,737
This sounds about right.

Trump's really done some damage. It's easier to break things than to put them together, and trust is no exception to that rule.