More white mostly. Unfortunately, Covid-19 affects minorities the most in the US.
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Guardian: “ Swedish surge in Covid cases dashes immunity hopes”
- Thread starter SilentPanda
- Start date
- News COVID
Most of the hair I pulled out has grown back since dealing with some of them, but yes, I still remember.
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Yeah, that was one of the reasons I chose Indiana, which is almost 90% white. (Though the average person there is obviously poorer and gets poorer healthcare than the average Swede)
I figured that Sweden was doing fine in the summer because everyone is outside or on vacation, houses/flats have windows open all summer for ventilation, and there are like 18 hours a day of sunlight for tons of Vitamin D, but that once it got cold and everyone is inside in poorly ventilated areas (for heat) and the sun is out for just a few hours a day, that it's get much worse (I still hope I'm wrong about that)
Something no one ever mentions in these articles is how lockdowns are 100% illegal in Sweden unless we're at a state of emergency. Sweden can however only activate a state of emergency while at war.
The government can't mandate stores to close down and freedom of movement is part of the swedish constitution.
I have loads of complaints about how the entire thing has been handled, especially now in the fall because literally no one appears to know how to read graphs and look at trends, so things that they actually do implement are being done way too late, but lockdowns were never even a possibility because of the laws being as they are.
The government can't mandate stores to close down and freedom of movement is part of the swedish constitution.
I have loads of complaints about how the entire thing has been handled, especially now in the fall because literally no one appears to know how to read graphs and look at trends, so things that they actually do implement are being done way too late, but lockdowns were never even a possibility because of the laws being as they are.
The strategy to get there was to move education in secondary schools and universities to distance learning, changing rules so that you get paid from day 1 on sick leave (previously you wouldn't get paid the first few daya to prevent people from pretending to be sick to watch a sports game or whatever) make it so that no doctor's statement was needed to qualify for sick leave, tell people to stay at home if exhibiting symptoms, educate people about hygiene and social distancing, telling people to work from home if possible, closing down restaurants that didn't take sufficient measures to promote social distancing with seating arrangements and the like, disallowing public events with more than 50 people present. I think those were the main measures taken
"But what about Sweden" is hopefully dead as a argument now... I mean it a stupid argument anyway but now surely those saying will now sweep it under the rug and forget they ever mentioned it...
They should pack up their AR-15s and Confederate flags and just move to Sweden already.
Testing is getting to the point where some people with mild or no symptoms can't get tested by now, but generally everyone who wants to have been able to get a test for free at either a drive in station or getting one delivered to their home by taxi (who picks it up again an hour or so later)
With the exception of health care professionals, only symptomatic cases are advised to get tested. Pretty much everything is considered to be possible symptoms of Covid-19 though.
So how exactly is not locking down and not recommending masks anything other than herd immunity without outright saying it? What exactly is being done to "slow the spread"?
uhh..what. no, that most definitely is not.
Interesting. Thanks. Out of curiosity, where there protests and such even about those measures?
I mean they straight up said here there hope was that initial waves would create a population of immune people that would protect the rest later on which literally makes no sense except in the context of herd immunity. At best you could argue they have no idea what the actual thresholds needed for herd immunity to do jack shit were, but I don't really see how you can argue they weren't banking on herd immunity when they literally say they were in this article
No, the defense force will tell you that we can only determine the success of the plan after many, many years.
Some people wanted harsher measures, but I don't think many people thought these measures were too harsh. Sports clubs and some people in the musical industry complained about the 50 person limit and it was increased to 500 people about a month ago for venues that are able to handle such large numbers while still enabling social distancing (large sports arenas and the like)
Thanks.
They lost me at this:
I don't get how 10 months into this there is still any doubt about the role that masks play in slowing the spread. Also it completely ignores asymptomatic spread which is astounding to me.
No, since Folkhälsomyndigheten thinks that mask use by the public won't decrease spread. That stance has been heavily debated and criticised of course but they seem unwilling to change it.
Have you read WHO's page about masks? It's not nearly as enthusiastic about a general mask usage mandate as it's made out by many to be
I haven't. I'll check them out. I just know that the CDC has wavered but recently sent out guidance that it protects both the wearer and the other person. I somewhat trust the CDC because they have pushed back against Trump at times but they've been pretty sketchy through the entire thing too.
It's not really in question whether masks can prevent spread in and of themselves. They can. The question is in what specific situations people are close enough for a long enough time to make them matter. It's arguable that it is better to surgically require masks in the locations and situations where they actually matter, than to require them 100% of them time even when they won't have much of an effect. Especially if a general mandate brings a false sense of security that lowers the amount of social distancing
It's always fascinating to see conversations around Sweden's strategy that don't also take into account that immigrant populations are significantly more likely to get sick/die because of it.
foreignpolicy.com
The Hidden Flaw in Sweden’s Anti-Lockdown Strategy
The government expects citizens to freely follow its advice—but not all ethnic groups have equal access to expertise.
foreignpolicy.com
I haven't seen any numbers for hospitalizations/deaths regarding this in the fall, but as for cases the vast majority are not in immigrant heavy areas right now. The hard hit areas of Stockholm in the spring have by far the lowest number of new cases over the last month (Although the increase started there as well the last couple of weeks)It's always fascinating to see conversations around Sweden's strategy that don't also take into account that immigrant populations are significantly more likely to get sick/die because of it.
The Hidden Flaw in Sweden’s Anti-Lockdown Strategy
The government expects citizens to freely follow its advice—but not all ethnic groups have equal access to expertise.
The spring was obviously a huge failure here but as of now it's not happening again.
And the article is obviously old, but actual lockdowns are still illegal just as they were in the spring, as I mentioned earlier in this thread.
well, in Sweden what has happened is that their strategy of downplaying it all and drumming Swedish exceptionalism also brought false sense of security and no social distancing, add to that no one wearing masks and...
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Mobility data has shown what you said not to be true. Mobility went down a lot during spring. It did go up now in fall but has not declined rapidly enough in response to the worsening transmission rates in recent weeks, but I think people are going to start taking it more seriously now
i was in stockholm last week, the way people behave e.g in shops, no masks, no distance - when you compare it to their neighboring countries it is very striking....
Like I said we haven't adapted quickly enough to the worsening trends in the last few weeks. But even so, I'd rather trust aggregate data than anecdotal evidence, and the the data does show that mobility decreased significantly during spring (and hopefully will over the next few weeks as well when people are starting to understand the seriousness of the situation).
To back up my statement about reduced mobility as a result of the recommendations, here is data for the number of public transportation trips in Stockholm compared to last year:
That means all of jack shit. Countries are hard locking down and mask wearing was widespread even before the were forced to lockdown.
Your talking about a literal drop in the ocean in regards some decreased mobility. Your countries looking at lot more deaths and appears to repeating the same mistakes as last time except this time it's winter, the virus will spread much more easily and health services are more stretched during teh winter anyway.
A 50% drop in public transportation trips compared to last year is not a drop in the ocean
Tiniest of drops. That public transport dropped in the middle of a pandemic versus a year where there was no such pandemic should not come as shock to anyone. Do you think public transport is being used at the same rate in most other European countries? The virus doesn't only spread via public transport as can be seen by your surging cases. Your government needs to try some serious measures otherwise a great deal more lives will be unnecessarily lost.
So, just to be clear, you are aware that we were able to avoid a second wave for longer than many other Western countries and that our rolling death rate per capita and day is still currently lower? This article isn't saying that Sweden is doing worse than others, rather that we are about to no longer do better than other countries.
And a 50% drop is huge. Calling that insignificant and tiny is literally an incorrect statement. I mean, it can be argued that it's maybe not ENOUGH But the increases in transmission rates these last few weeks after a period of growing usage of public transportation seems to indicate that it was indeed important to curb spread, so hopefully we can get back to the lower mobility seen during spring again
That's not a credit to your government. That's like saying because Britain was one of the last European countries to be hit hard by the virus during the first wave and had low cases and deaths beforehand that it handled the virus well. It's a completely and utterly meaningless point.
What matters is what your country does while the coronavirus cases are still low because the time to act is now and currently Sweden is on a the path to another senselessly large loss of life unless actions are made now.
Compare your countries public transportation capacity drop to other European countries and their current trajectory. That would be a meaningful analysis.
Based on posts we've seen here on Era it seems like several Swedish citizens accept what their government peddles without scrutinizing or questioning it. I think even some Swedish posters have stated something similar in previous threads.
Actions are being taken now. Recommendations have changed over the last couple of weeks, and as you can see in the graph I posted, this change in recommendations has led to a decline in mobility and hopefully that trend continues
I wouldn't go that far, in the earlier stages of the virus, every country was just fucking around doing their own thing in the hope something would work.
it's fucking november lmfao
they've long been told it's a dumb idea. this isn't new.
here's the guardian on sweden and herd immunity in may
Just 7.3% of Stockholm had Covid-19 antibodies by end of April, study shows
Official findings add to concerns about Sweden’s laissez-faire strategy towards the pandemic
www.theguardian.com