GTA Online now has a casino. We need to talk about it.

[TheMan]

On the one hand, this seems like a natural evolution of mtx that fits perfectly into the GTA universe.

On the other hand it's the perfect way to get gambling addicts to blow tons of real cash in game and possibly create new addicts too.

If only adults played this game I would care too much, but we all know that toooons of kids play this shit too. Utterly irresponsible by rockstar, but they will surely hide behind the game's age rating.

 

[Laserbeam]

Is it super hard to just "make" money in GTA online by playing?

this is all so weird to me.

 

[Quantza]

Players can buy in-game money for real money (or they can earn it in game by simply playing the game) and then buy casino chips with in-game money (maximum of 50k in chips every GTA Day). You can't directly buy casino chips with real money. So literally nothing has changed in GTA Online other than the addition of new activities to spend in-game money on.

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Transitivity isn't direct enough now?

Well... incoming black market-style sub-economies.
Capitalism is terrible sometimes...

 

[The Albatross]

Players can buy in-game money for real money (or they can earn it in game by simply playing the game) and then buy casino chips with in-game money (maximum of 50k in chips every GTA Day). You can't directly buy casino chips with real money. So literally nothing has changed in GTA Online other than the addition of new activities to spend in-game money on.

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Oooh, interesting, so there is a real money cash value to the in-game chips. Can you cash those chips out of the casino to then use in the rest of the game, or once you buy in your 50k chips/day, those chips are locked into the casino and can't be cashed out?

This is a different approach than what Rockstar took with the poker mini game in Red Dead Online, where real money can only buy you "gold bars" which don't have a real conversion to the in-game currency, which is all you can use for the poker mini-game.

Transitivity isn't direct enough now?

Well... incoming black market-style sub-economies.
Capitalism is terrible sometimes...

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sorry, side rant here...

I think it's not productive to blame everything on capitalism, and much more productive to directly blame Rockstar, here. Like, placing the blame on capitalism kind of feels like a "What can you do, it's capitalism for ya!" When directly blaming Rockstar seems more productive because you can directly call them out for bull shit like this. It's in every thread it seems.

 

[Era of not Yakuza]

is this a new low ?

 

[FerryF1]

Didn't Test Drive Unlimited 2's Casino do the same? back in 2011-ish i guess?

 

[Kitten Mittens]

Oooh, interesting, so there is a real money cash value to the in-game chips. Can you cash those chips out of the casino to then use in the rest of the game, or once you buy in your 50k chips/day, those chips are locked into the casino and can't be cashed out?

This is a different approach than what Rockstar took with the poker mini game in Red Dead Online, where real money can only buy you "gold bars" which don't have a real conversion to the in-game currency, which is all you can use for the poker mini-game.

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You can cash out for in-game currency. You just can't cash out in-game currency for your real money. But you can't do that in any game that sells in-game currency. At least none I'm aware of. If you could cash out for real money, this would indeed be gambling. As it stands, it isn't gambling because Rockstar wins 100 percent of the time.

 

[Skittzo]

This more or less seems just like lootboxes with all of the pretense dropped. Not really anything that new.

Of course it's still awful and reprehensible just like lootboxes usually are in general.

 

[Deleted member 364]

Wasnt enough this game sold (undeservingly) like 100 million copies.

 

[Cryoteck]

Casino isn't needed for this lol. Thers a thread around here about a 3 year old spending $1000+ on a parent's phone game

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The fact that it would be money lost on a real game played in casinos will make the point that it's gambling very clear to the public. Plus the general public eat up GTA controversies.

 

[i'm not a rob0t]

we really don't, human Kotaku.

 

[The Albatross]

You can cash out for in-game currency. You just can't cash out in-game currency for your real money. But you can't do that in any game that sells in-game currency. At least none I'm aware of. If you could cash out for real money, this would indeed be gambling. As it stands, it isn't gambling because Rockstar wins 100 percent of the time.

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I still think that the first point matters more, not that you can eventually cash that back into real dollars/currency.

You can spend real money to buy in game $GTA, and then spend that $GTA on chips in a casino to gamble, and then convert that back into $GTA, to use on items in the world.

I had assume they were going to insulate the casino chips from the external GTA world, and have like an exclusive set of casino-only prizes, so that there wouldn't be a direct conversion of real dollars to casino chips to items in the rest of the world.

I think Rockstar is on shaky ground here. I'm surprised they're not making discrete casino currency, or at least, making a more obtuse conversion between real currency -> ingame currency -> casino chips -> ingame currency. Red Dead Online played it much safer by insulating real currency -> gold | in-game currency -> gambling currency. There isn't a direct conversion between gold and gambling currency, and so to make a currency conversion, you have to value it based on items that you can buy with both in game currency and gold ... which ends up being a more vague conversion, which protects Rockstar from criticism (a bit ... a conversion can still be made but it's an vague conversion)

 

[Foffy]

Is it super hard to just "make" money in GTA online by playing?

this is all so weird to me.

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Rockstar usually has gone out of its way to nerf consistently reliable means to obtain money that didn't take long periods of time.

I think the best way to make money is still to do Heists, so we're talking 30+ minute grinds with brutal failstates.

 

[Ænima]

Lol i guess this casino will not be available in my country then (Portugal) They already axed out the Poker from RDR2 Online because my country anti gambling laws. Pitty my country still alow shitty lotboxes and predatory dlc schemes to be in games.

 

[Hasseigaku]

sorry, side rant here...

I think it's not productive to blame everything on capitalism, and much more productive to directly blame Rockstar, here. Like, placing the blame on capitalism kind of feels like a "What can you do, it's capitalism for ya!" When directly blaming Rockstar seems more productive because you can directly call them out for bull shit like this. It's in every thread it seems.

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We can blame both. Capitalism by its nature requires that companies make more and more money every year in order to satisfy shareholders, and it is at least partly this endless need for more money every year that helps drive this predatory behavior.

Yes, you can work in better ways within the system but the need for constant growth is absolutely part of the problem.

 

[Zool]

This is smart! Spending money in this casino is not though.

 

[The Albatross]

We can blame both. Capitalism by its nature requires that companies make more and more money every year in order to satisfy shareholders, and it is at least partly this endless need for more money every year that helps drive this predatory behavior.

Yes, you can work in better ways within the system but the need for constant growth is absolutely part of the problem.

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Yeah but the only "solution" to this problem is to overthrow the capitalist order, which is such a 'who is john galt' defeatism that examples of predatory behavior -- like Rockstar's gambling minigame using real money -- will continue to exist until this order is overthrown (spoiler alert: it's not being overthrown in our lifetimes). My point was specifically about not placing blame on Rockstar, the company implementing this system, but instead placing it on the nebulous capitalist order.

Even in capitalist countries/regions like the United States, Canada, Europe, and Asia, we have regulatory systems in place that can enforce policies on how a company like Rockstar could implement a gambling minigame with real money in a videogame. Explicitly blaming capitalism and not explicitly blaming Rockstar is letting them off the hook, and I replied to a post that explicitly blamed capitalism, not both.

 

[Akai]

Is it super hard to just "make" money in GTA online by playing?

this is all so weird to me.

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They don't really want you to make money by just playing and if they do, you grind for weeks/months to actually be able to afford something decent. Basically, everything is designed in a way, so that people choose the much easier solution, which is just buying Shark Cards with real money.

 

[Kraid]

Who is dumb enough to spend money on this?

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My mother is a vulnerable adult and she lost in the low five figures in money on social casinos... this stuff is 100% evil and I despise companies who do this.

 

[Box]

I feel like I've been groomed.

 

[ckareset]

I think we can have regulations while not banning it.


One is tested and published odds of success. Next is requiring another verification for large purchases/frequent purchases

 

[Deleted member 4372]

I am a big fan of GTA online but no way will I be doing any casino betting, that is horseshit. Will never spend real money to buy gta bucks to buy casino chips. I have only ever bought cars w gta cash and thats all ill spend additional money on.

 

[The Albatross]

Who is dumb enough to spend money on this?

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Children
Vulnerable adults
The small, but very profitable, population that has spent hundreds of millions of real dollars on GTA Shark Cards.

Take2 does not disclose how much money they've made from Shark Cards in GTA Online. But as of 2018, they said that 62% of their H1 revenue was on "DLC and microtransactions," (of which most is microtransactions, they release relatively little paid DLC these days scattered across a small handful of low selling properties like WWE 2K series) and Rockstar has said that their future revenue will be on "recurrent consumer spending" (e.g., MTX like Shark Cards).

GTAV has also made $6b (as of Q1 2018 earnings call, we're nearing the Q2 2019 close so I'm sure it's much more now). Rockstar/Take2 does not disclose what portion of that is Shark Cards for GTA Online or retail sales of the game, but the retail curve would suggest that it's progressively become more and more Shark Cards and less and less retail sales.

That all goes to say it's a good guess that a lot of people are dumb enough to spend money on this.

 

[Sign My Guestbook!]

I feel like I've been groomed.

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We all have, going way back to horse armor. All the shouting and screaming in the world about where this was going did nothing to stop it.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

My mother is a vulnerable adult and she lost in the low five figures in money on social casinos... this stuff is 100% evil and I despise companies who do this.

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But the chart said it's not really gambling!

Seriously I'm sorry.

 

[Derktron]

Fucking disgusting of Rockstar. In no way should you be able to, directly or indirectly, use real money to buy chips for a casino in a fucking video game. That's beyond the pale. Their greed cannot be satiated.

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Unfortunately people will look the other way just because it's Rockstar Games.

 

[BY2K]

we really don't, human Kotaku.

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I'm sorry?

 

[Kitten Mittens]

I am a big fan of GTA online but no way will I be doing any casino betting, that is horseshit. Will never spend real money to buy gta bucks to buy casino chips. I have only ever bought cars w gta cash and thats all ill spend additional money on.

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So don't spend real money. Spend in-game money.

 

[DOT_mjo]

Still not worse than FUT or 2K.

 

[dreamfall]

So semantics - you can buy Shark/Whale cards and then convert in game currency to chips? And then never cash out? I think I need to load it up to see what it's about but it sounds about right. I mean the micro transaction lows have no bounds - I've stopped playing to grind for money / never really spent any of the earned in game money on anything but clothes. But it doesn't surprise me in the slightest, capitalizing on a younger audience willing to fork over real money for shenanigans seems to be a cash cow for Online service games.

Spending real money on in game currency seems so depressing to me - I have never. But I understand the predatory practice of it has much more severe consequences.

 

[TheZynster]

Just wait till nba 2k20 gets a full version of this and we have that same poster come into that OT defending it

 

[TheYanger]

I bet they're gonna get away with it because you can't technically directly buy chips. You need to buy the dollars and then, in-game, buy the chips.

The law for gambling also included that you should receive actual money as well, no?

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You receive something that Rockstar themselves gives a real world cash value to. I'm pretty sure that's enough for it to hit gambling.

It's like the CS Go nonsense from a few years ago, but in the skin of a casino and run by the official entity.

 

[Denamitea]

Remember when GTA used to be a satire of the worst aspects of modern society?

 

[boris_feinbrand]

Imagine being a casino owner having to deal with regulations when you could just release a game and avoid all regulations and have a legion of weird nerds defend you online.

 

[Sign My Guestbook!]

Imagine being a casino owner having to deal with regulations when you could just release a game and avoid all regulations and have a legion of weird nerds defend you online.

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And you never have to risk paying out, either. It's actually better than having a casino in some aspects.

In the far future of Neo Las Vegas, brick-and-mortar casinos are dead...

 

[ChaosXVI]

This is so over the top evil that it's almost funny. You can use real money to buy fake money, then use that money to gamble it away to make more fake money...but without even the possibility of converting that fake money into real money again.

I mean...COME ON!

 

[Force_XXI]

I'm sorry?

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Already reported that troll, if that isn't thread whining with adash of insult then idk

 

[BY2K]

How terrible would an actual casino where you can't cash out be... ?

 

[ethranes]

so I guess it's causing such a ruckus because rockstar are doing it? and not the countless of other companies and games that have been doing this for close to a decade?

 

[Tawpgun]

How terrible would an actual casino where you can't cash out be... ?

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Hey now.

Gotta get that new generic super car somehow

I think this would actually be worse if you could cash out for real money. Don't some games allow you to sell in game shit for real money? EVE and Diablo? Technically you can do that in Rocket League too.

 

[Deleted member 11421]

Is it super hard to just "make" money in GTA online by playing?

this is all so weird to me.

Click to shrink...

If you don't use a server loophole or play with a bunch of people to run missions safe from other players, it is. Your investments can be lost very easily and everything drains money over time as well.

 

[WiZaRdOuS]

They don't really want you to make money by just playing and if they do, you grind for weeks/months to actually be able to afford something decent. Basically, everything is designed in a way, so that people choose the much easier solution, which is just buying Shark Cards with real money.

Click to shrink...

False lol

 

[Hasseigaku]

so I guess it's causing such a ruckus because rockstar are doing it? and not the countless of other companies and games that have been doing this for close to a decade?

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Rockstar has been doing this in the form of shark cards for a long time.

But this is them basically saying the silent part aloud.

 

[Perona]

So it's basically adult Chuck E. Cheese.

 

[WiZaRdOuS]

so I guess it's causing such a ruckus because rockstar are doing it? and not the countless of other companies and games that have been doing this for close to a decade?

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Rockstar games are the devil....a thread a day lmao

/s

 

[Dullahan]

Remember when GTA used to be a satire of the worst aspects of modern society?

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Reality became GTA tier anyway with Donald and Boris, so the game is just flipping things around.

 

[Nanashrew]

You can cash out for in-game currency. You just can't cash out in-game currency for your real money. But you can't do that in any game that sells in-game currency. At least none I'm aware of. If you could cash out for real money, this would indeed be gambling. As it stands, it isn't gambling because Rockstar wins 100 percent of the time.

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The issue with these things though is "real gambling" people bring up in here is only defined by law, but these things technically are gambling and have very large similarities to real gambling, but the reason they are not seen as real gambling by law is because studios are simply avoiding hitting all the pillars at the same time. Nothing new in the decades upon decades of companies trying to skirt gambling laws by simply avoiding the pillars or inventing a new mechanic to try and bypass the system.

Also, there used to be a game on the app store that I forget the name of, but was a real virtual casino where you could actually cash out and it was deemed not real gambling. That was something only very recently overturned as of a year or two ago. The laws were on the virtual casino's side because of how incredibly outdated the laws are on gambling and owning a tangible gambling device like a slot machine. State to state laws on gambling are a hell of a thing.

 

[WiZaRdOuS]

Just wait till nba 2k20 gets a full version of this and we have that same poster come into that OT defending it

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Maaaaaaaan....TakeTwo is gonna ball out next year between this, Rdo, and NBA2K....good lawwd and imagine all the other titles lol

I shouldve bought stocks hahaha

 

[thediamondage]

I haven't run GTA in a while, is the issue that there is a new casino chip currency you can only buy with real $$ or is the issue that there are casino chips, you spend in game money to buy them, and it just so happens you can buy in game money with real $$?

I mean the latter should have been pretty obvious to... anyone? GTA has been selling their "shark cards" since online launched, for years now, as a way to buy in game money with real $$. There is no "reversing" this, you can't sell in game money back to real $$.

I guess Rockstar could have had casino chips be a new currency that cannot be converted in game, you have to do jobs to earn it and then gamble with it, but that seems a bit weird and disconnected from the online game loop, where everything you do feeds or is fed from in game money.

I totally agree its a bizarre grey line to allow kids to simply buy in game money with real $ and then gamble with it, but the game is supposed to be only played by 18+ isn't it?

For what its worth I have like 80m in game i got gifted from hackers or something years ago, never found any reason to care much. I wonder if its easy to make money in game or if its so hard the only option is to spend real money, which is imo a bigger, glaring issue with these kind of games.

 

[Xater]

We are now so far over the line on monetization in video games it's seriously concerning. The games industry clearly can't regulate itself and it's on its way to create lots of new gambling addicts. Governments need to step in.