Greg Miller and Andrea Rene handwave Notch and PewDiePie racist, transphobic and anti-semitic behaviour (UP: GM and AR respond; see threadmarks)

[gogosox82]

Where do they support racism, bigotry, and transphobia? What in the fucking hell are you talking about?

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They handwaved it away. Go read their responses or watch the video again. They (more Andrea then Grag but he didn't exactly push back ) acted like it wasn't a big deal and just made a bunch of excuses for both of them. When we are talking about racism, bigotry, and transphobia you are either actively fighting against those things or you are not and if you are not fighting against them, you are supporting it either fully like Notch or tactically by making a bunch of bs excuses and handwaving all of the shiity things Notch and PDP have done.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

What's the story here? "Two privileged people are apathetic. News at 11."

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There's no story. At best someone will talk about it on a podcast if they frequent here or kf content, but probably not.

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"Youtuber defends Pewdiepie" Isn't really a story. TBH someone not defending him would be a bigger story due to how insular that community is.

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Seeing as what passes as news at some outlets, this is totally news. Also, I wouldn't like this to be burried. There is a story here, and it's bigger than this thread - it should totally be adressed.

 

[jviggy43]

If anything, the fact that no one has picked up this story, because it may not be deemed news worthy, really just shows how serious the problem is. The fact that so many people, here of all places, dont think this is a problem, shows how serious it is. Casual defense of racists/transphobes/bigots isn't anything to be upset about. The mlk white moderate quote will never stop being relevant.

 

[ReginaldXIV]

Seeing as what passes as news at some outlets, this is totally news. Also, I wouldn't like this to be burried. There is a story here, and it's bigger than this thread - it should totally be adressed.

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If you mean like the weak stance the industry has on bigots and people who use hate speech sure, definitely. In this specific instance, there isn't a story. Despite how large this topic got, Kinda Funny isn't big enough for that kind of attention. Maybe if it were brought to their attention by their audiences they might take a look.

 

[jviggy43]

I mean greg miller and andrea are not unknown entities within the industry. Theyre pretty huge names which is why you seem them constantly hosting events like today with the reveal of BL3 or Andrea with Anthem (and many many more). KF may not be big enough (but I dont really agree with that because its always been made up of ign people) but greg and andrea certainly are. I feel what it comes down to is no one is willing to call out this shit publicly because 1 they likely dont view it as problematic and 2 they dont want to call out fellow journalists/youtubers working within the industry whom they probably have some working relationship with.

But honestly in either case its only abetting those like pdp and notch, as well as the defense force greg and andrea put up for them. Gaming is just such a shitty hobby that continually shows how little it cares about large parts of its audience.

 

[Mifec]

otherwise what even is the point of prison amirite?

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Support for a modern day slavery system as part of prison labour. Unless you were sarcastic.

 

[Messofanego]

This looks like people fighting their allies more than their enemies. He's good but not good enough kinda shit.

Threads like this always make me have mental images of sharks having a feeding frenzy.

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Are you not allowed to have any reasonable expectations of these professionals? Greg Miller is a trained journalist. But on this podcast, he just reads a couple of news articles from his peers and that's all he goes off on regarding Notch and Pewdiepie's bigoted behaviour. He didn't do the basic diligence of researching all the controversies before deciding to talk about it on the podcast. None of us are journalists and yet we know the extent of the bigotry.

Andrea literally downplayed the bigotry by calling it "wacky", "completely out of context", she believes PewDiePie is being "crucified", and that it's just drama "ooh drama alert".

I'm sorry but they really seemed like privileged white people that because they're not the targets of the bigotry, have no skin in the game and so haven't bothered to do the research or in Andrea's case, just don't care.

 

[Shy]

This looks like people fighting their allies more than their enemies. He's good but not good enough kinda shit.

Threads like this always make me have mental images of sharks having a feeding frenzy.

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[PopsMaellard]

But allies aren't allies if they are not willing to call their friends out over bullshit behaviour. Especially in an industry that really needs to be brought to task for it.

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Fucking this. You either are on 100%, or you're nothing. There are no exceptions for this bullshit.

 

[GTAce]

Hey, LebGuns--

I'm sorry that you walked away from this episode thinking that I didn't take a stand on this. I'd hope that my past efforts on all of these issues would speak to my stance on them, but if they haven't, let me be clear: fuck being a bigot.

In the episode, I say never say the N-word, I say that Notch seems like an asshole, and I echo the message I've said on so many shows of "be better to each other." If that wasn't clear, I missed the mark and failed at being the man I want to be. End of story.

The conversation I was trying to have Monday wasn't "Why does the internet got to be so complicated when people get successful?" in regards to people who use the n-word. Fuck that. That's simple. It was more "How is this a lesson people have to learn in 2019?"

But again, that didn't ring true to you. I'm sorry.

I hope you know how much your comments mean to me. That goes for everyone here. Please, don't hesitate to tag me in posts about my content or ask me questions online. Talking to you is what my career is based on -- it's why I used You're Wrong (the live submission section of Kinda Funny Games Daily) in this episode to get the input from viewers about the side of the story I was missing.

I don't know it all. I try not to act like I know it all, but I don't mean for that to come off as if I don't care about or shrug at bigotry.
Greg

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I hope no one minds me quoting this, considering I'm a bit LTTP here.

It's really hard for me not to swear and insult you here, but I'll try my best....
This whole "be nice to eachother" thing doesn't work, as many people here already pointed out. The same goes for condemning the usage of slurs, but at the same time handwaving the users. If you don't understand this, you're either ignorant, stupid, or you lie to save face.

I'm sick of prominent figures in the gaming scene to play in the cards of racists and Nazis, enabling their shitty behaviour.
Your answer is just cementing my opinion of you and your co-host and in my opinion your account here should be suspended and your content blacklisted.

 

[Ploid 6.0]

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Oh my gawd, this is funny and sad at the same time. No one should have been made to apologize to him after he tried to say they were being racist to him.

 

[Sloth Guevara]

We okey with calling people on this forum subhuman now? Cool.

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Post count. Lol

 

[Avitus]

This looks like people fighting their allies more than their enemies. He's good but not good enough kinda shit.

Threads like this always make me have mental images of sharks having a feeding frenzy.

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If you fail relatively easy tests of character, you aren't "good" at all. It's not that hard to roundly condemn Notch or PDP's comments. It's very telling when someone doesn't or goes out of their way to downplay said comments. Bonus points on the shitheel scale if you act befuddled as to why anyone would have a problem with such behavior.

This isn't a super complex or nuanced situation. It's two people with a platform failing spectacularly.

 

[Batatina]

I stopped listening to their podcast about a year ago, as I was frustrated at the apathy and enabling attitude of the presenters toward loot boxes and other money grabbing tactics that were increasingly prominent. I'm not surprised that the same attitude of devil's advocacy, where presenters gotta stay positive and apolitical is applied to other meaningful topics. Not that I think the presenters are bad people or hold those views, but they believe their job is to stay entertaining and light - which in my opinion allows the actual bad people to be louder and feel entitled.

In a way I fear EZA is going down the same route, and I've been disconnecting from their content sometimes. But thankfully they are a bigger group and some of them find a way to voice their much needed progressive news punctually. Not nearly as much as they should still.

I don't think the world can afford to stay positive and dismissive of issues. The far-right is attacking, people are losing rights they thought they had fought to secure, and people with the right views have to fight too and be vocal. Staying balanced for the sake of keeping all viewers at peace is no longer an option society can afford.

 

[Cokesouls]

I think the way Greg and Andrea talked about this issue is stupid. Andrea should've also addressed this topic (she probably will next time she's on the show). Greg especially needs to think more about his "be good to each other" approach.

However, this thread makes it clear that the members of this Forum are getting more and more radical and more like the old place.
Every time some influencers do something even remotely stupid like this, it feels like 80% of this Forum demand they be stoned or cast into deepest Abyss. It's like the Forum encourages Destructive Behavior. It's just bad for everyone involved.

 

[nel e nel]

I watched the Notch section, and Greg flatly called out his homophobic and transphobic comments as being shitty. They also both stated that he's free to say whatever he wants, but not free from repercussions. What they seemed to be brushing off was why MS not inviting Notch was even newsworthy: because he's a douche that no corporation would want to associate with because of his shitty tweets, and he's distanced himself from Minecraft anyways. So it was kind of a non-story in their opinion.

Was there something I missed in that section that led people to believe they were defending his tweets as not a big deal?

 

[GTAce]

However, this thread makes it clear that the members of this Forum are getting more and more radical and more like the old place.

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The fuck? Radicalism against Nazis, racist and transphobes should be embraced.
People who enable this shit need to be called out.

 

[Cokesouls]

The fuck? Radicalism against Nazis, racist and transphobes should be embraced.
People who enable this shit need to be called out.

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Greg and Andrea are not racists or Nazis.
They said stupid stuff and condone people like Boogie who would more likely fall under those categories, but they themselves are not.
This response is exactly what I meant with my post.

 

[massoluk]

I think the way Greg and Andrea talked about this issue is stupid. Andrea should've also addressed this topic (she probably will next time she's on the show). Greg especially needs to think more about his "be good to each other" approach.

However, this thread makes it clear that the members of this Forum are getting more and more radical and more like the old place.
Every time some influencers do something even remotely stupid like this, it feels like 80% of this Forum demand they be stoned or cast into deepest Abyss. It's like the Forum encourages Destructive Behavior. It's just bad for everyone involved.

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I think we should call out influencer because they can influence people. Don't be passive about this

 

[Deleted member 47700]

Greg and Andrea are not racists or Nazis.
They said stupid stuff and condone people like Boogie who would more likely fall under those categories, but they themselves are not.
This response is exactly what I meant with my post.

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Nobody in the thread called them racists or nazis.

The second half of GTAce's post makes it clear what the issue with them is.

 

[Cokesouls]

Nobody in the thread called them racists or nazis.

The second half of GTAce's post makes it clear what the issue with them is.

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Ah damn it. I read the entire post wrong. I agree absolutely that Influencers should be called out, just not call them to be Fired unless it's really extrene circumstances.

I'm sorry GTAce. I misread your post!

 

[Messofanego]

I watched the Notch section, and Greg flatly called out his homophobic and transphobic comments as being shitty. They also both stated that he's free to say whatever he wants, but not free from repercussions. What they seemed to be brushing off was why MS not inviting Notch was even newsworthy: because he's a douche that no corporation would want to associate with because of his shitty tweets, and he's distanced himself from Minecraft anyways. So it was kind of a non-story in their opinion.

Was there something I missed in that section that led people to believe they were defending his tweets as not a big deal?

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He wasn't, she was. But he was doing nothing to criticise her defence and downplaying the bigotry.

 

[nel e nel]

He wasn't, she was. But he was doing nothing to criticise her defence and downplaying the bigotry.

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Yeah, on second listen just now, it's a lot more questionable some of the comments she's making, and I definitely see the concerns more clearly. It's that weird "disagreeing but not really" tone.

 

[Oggmeiler]

Post count. Lol

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I have been a member for not even two months. Chill out breh.

 

[not_smiff]

Gaming industry hasn't been the same since it became a mainstream recruitment platform. It's like every other corner of modern western society.

 

[TheGhost]

Well Greg already apologized and it was too "PR" for people so it will probably all come down to how do they feel about this website they mention almost daily in their video game focused podcasts. Do they stop shouting out this place after 35 pages of people reacting to this? Do they double down on PR talk, or do they just ignore it because with everyone on edge it will be a "damed if you do, damned if you don't" moment.

I personally believe, since no one else in the industry is calling them out on this, they will ignore it on gamesdaily and instead do a very special game over greggy show about how we should be better people.

 

[Skiptastic]

I've met gameovergreggy a couple of times (even last year at Battle Creek!) and have followed him since the start of his career (though, in all honesty, not as closely since he started Kinda Funny...sorry Greg, but with two kids, I pretty much only have time for Game Scoop!). I really like him as a "video game personality" and as an individual. He's a good dude, in my book. And I think he genuinely cares about about the video game community as a whole, not just the content he and Kinda Funny put out. (I'm not going to talk about Andrea because I really don't know her at all, so I won't comment.)

While I will defend Greg as a person, I'm not going to say that he can't improve as an ally. While I felt like he was clear enough in the notch segment that notch's opinions were shitty and MS was right not to invite him, I think he gave too much leeway to PDP and his past actions. The segment was supposed to be commending PDP for asking to end the "Subscribe to PDP" meme because he doesn't agree with those acts of violence associated with him, so I saw it as Greg giving kudos to PDP for doing that and giving his own take on what KF would do if someone used a KF slogan in a similar fashion. But I agree with many in this thread that PDP has a history of doing shitty things and apologizing only when he gets in trouble. Those apologies have always seemed in bad faith to me, so PDP hasn't earned any leeway from Greg or the community. That leeway given can be seen as empowering those hateful words and actions, which I'm sure Greg did not intend, but unintended consequences are consequences, nonetheless. So I'm fine with Greg being called out on needing to improve as an ally.

I get the sense from his response that is threadmarked that Greg feels he can improve, too. So I see his "I'm sorry that you took my comments this way" comment not as a "sorry I hurt your feelings, but I'm not really sorry" take, but an honest note of regret. I believe Greg will try to do better research before bringing up controversial topics and people, and will take the criticism in this thread to heart. He should improve as an ally and I believe he will. (God knows I would like to be a better ally, myself, so watching this thread has just reinforced that I need to be better prepared to take a clear stand when the time comes.)

That's my two cents.

 

[Deleted member 176]

In the episode, I say never say the N-word, I say that Notch seems like an asshole, and I echo the message I've said on so many shows of "be better to each other."

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Damn, what a hero.

 

[rochellepaws]

I mean greg miller and andrea are not unknown entities within the industry. Theyre pretty huge names which is why you seem them constantly hosting events like today with the reveal of BL3 or Andrea with Anthem (and many many more). KF may not be big enough (but I dont really agree with that because its always been made up of ign people) but greg and andrea certainly are. I feel what it comes down to is no one is willing to call out this shit publicly because 1 they likely dont view it as problematic and 2 they dont want to call out fellow journalists/youtubers working within the industry whom they probably have some working relationship with.

But honestly in either case its only abetting those like pdp and notch, as well as the defense force greg and andrea put up for them. Gaming is just such a shitty hobby that continually shows how little it cares about large parts of its audience.

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The 2nd case would be my impression. Maintaining cross-community reputation and networking connections is both of their top priorities and results in them compromising their ability to take a strong stance against anything considered divisive. Which unfortunately given the games community we have even something like a nazi sympathiser doesn't draw widespread condemnation.
Overall it makes both individuals and Kinda Funny look weak, these people are entertainers and not journalists or important observers of the video game landscape in my view. Yet another shining light for the legendary trending gamer award.

 

[FloatingDivider]

I mean it's not like I was watching Greg Miller/Andrea or they were on my radar prior so they're not losing views but I can't say I feel inclined to start watching if he's all about that wishy-washy man in the middle let's all be nice to each-other shit and she's all about that let's disregard hardcore racism, homophobia, transphobia and other hateful rhetoric life. Like others in this thread I feel like at best they're normalizing the sort of behavior pewdz and notch engage in by discussing it as if it merits discussion but at worst they're legitimately providing some sort of defense force and that's just a huge nope. Can't say I feel like I'd ever be interested in watching content by these two at this point but that's not surprising considering the generic "videogame journalism" feel I get from them. I prefer getting unique perspectives from people that at least try to fully understand systemic issues before providing a defense force for them.

 

[Deleted member 176]

even if they just wanted to shamelessly protect their industry access by not saying anything mean about two of the most proudly rotten people in the industry, they could have just stopped at that without diving into "wacky" conspiracy theories.

so I guess what I'm saying is I think this goes deeper than them simply trying to simply shamelessly protect their industry access and I now believe that they support notch/PDP on a personal level

 

[Deleted member 4034]

So nobody picked this story up? All cowards? Protecting your precious collegues? Jesus.

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Because as much as you want it to be it really isn't a story.

That he's superior to everyone in the thread.

It's a schtick.

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Don't.

I already elaborated.

 

[labx]

Greg has his own history of troublesome behaviour but Colin was just such a shitstorm for so long that I think Greg went unnoticed.

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Quick question: for the ones that follow this moral hero. The guy that said, be better to each other. Did he apologized to this woman for the public shaming? Or was something out of context (for everyone that defend this kind of shit too)?

 

[Apples_89]

Quick question: for the ones that follow this moral hero. The guy that said, be better to each other. Did he apologized to this woman for the public shaming? Or was something out of context (for everyone that defend this kind of shit too)?

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I'd love to know the percentage of people who are appalled by this act, then immediately looked up "Camilla Luddington naked" after referring to this 7 year old timestamp.

 

[Arthands]

That's kinda shitty.

 

[Deleted member 23212]

That's kinda shitty.

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Kinda Shitty.

 

[usagi704]

I agree. I listened yesterday and knew right away there would be an uproar here. There chemistry isn't usually this bad. I listen regularly but turn off if Greg, Tim isn't on it. Andrea and Gary are my favorite seconds. She was arguing and kinda bitchy the whole podcast. I believe it was due to her being sick. I think Greg is a good guy and this is getting blown way out of proportion but then again it always does here.

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I don't start defending/make excuses for trash people when I'm sick. Fuck off with this shit.

 

[Hzsn724]

But that's the point Greg is a fucking trained journalist. He should know better. He's not just a guy who started writing game reviews at 14 and got lucky. He went to J school.

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But Greg isn't a journalist anymore. He's no better than any other YouTuber out there throwing back beers with patreon supporters...

He's completely out of touch with the code of ethics and his responsibility as a media person. Greg uses his past to get clicks and follows. He doesn't actually practice journalism, as good journalists dont tell you their opinions about what they think of every story. They just give you the tools to make up your own opinions. Not bring up news and ramble on for an hour about how it affects them or what they think people should do.... also being half informed on every story is just not doing the job.

Just because someone went to J school doesn't make them credible for life. A good journalist practices giving people the power of credible information daily so that they are better informed in their daily lives. Not misinform people about their uncredible opinions and half baked thoughts. That's not journalism.

 

[Skittles]

Hey, LebGuns--

I'm sorry that you walked away from this episode thinking that I didn't take a stand on this. I'd hope that my past efforts on all of these issues would speak to my stance on them, but if they haven't, let me be clear: fuck PDP and notch

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Here you go, your statement could have been roughly this short and you would have actually came out sounding like an ally. Instead of someone using intentionally vague language, so as to appeal to as many people as possible.

 

[Flavius]

I don't start defending/make excuses for trash people when I'm sick. Fuck off with this shit.

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Well then, you're a narrow-minded asshole, tough talker.

 

[Deleted member 4976]

So nobody picked this story up? All cowards? Protecting your precious collegues? Jesus.

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Doesn't look like it.

Gotta stick together!

 

[labx]

I'd love to know the percentage of people who are appalled by this act, then immediately looked up "Camilla Luddington naked" after referring to this 7 year old timestamp.

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Yeah me too my dude. Did you do it? I didn't. And again with the card "it was long ago" better get some new burns and counter arguments. Again, he is a public figure, advocating for a middle ground and be better to each other. Start by looking at your own shit. Future bites. But yeah, keep normalizing sexist behaviors because he was young and naive.

 

[usagi704]

Well then, you're a narrow-minded asshole, tough talker.

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You become cool with people like PDP and Notch when you're under the weather? If you want to see an asshole, look in a mirror.

 

[TheSteelCondor]

Anyone posted this yet? This is them addressing when PewDiePie dropped the N-word.

 

[Kongroo]

I just finished reading the transcript and it definitely seems like they both vocalize that Notch is a piece of shit. They talk about it and come to the right conclusion imo. I might be missing something here but I have no problem with both of them calling out Notch for his bad behavior.

 

[DigitalOp]

If anything, the fact that no one has picked up this story, because it may not be deemed news worthy, really just shows how serious the problem is. The fact that so many people, here of all places, dont think this is a problem, shows how serious it is. Casual defense of racists/transphobes/bigots isn't anything to be upset about. The mlk white moderate quote will never stop being relevant.

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I mean greg miller and andrea are not unknown entities within the industry. Theyre pretty huge names which is why you seem them constantly hosting events like today with the reveal of BL3 or Andrea with Anthem (and many many more). KF may not be big enough (but I dont really agree with that because its always been made up of ign people) but greg and andrea certainly are. I feel what it comes down to is no one is willing to call out this shit publicly because 1 they likely dont view it as problematic and 2 they dont want to call out fellow journalists/youtubers working within the industry whom they probably have some working relationship with.

But honestly in either case its only abetting those like pdp and notch, as well as the defense force greg and andrea put up for them. Gaming is just such a shitty hobby that continually shows how little it cares about large parts of its audience.

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You speaking fire and truth but they not hearing you though.

This thread is interesting because it shows just how bare and baseline it is to appease white people into thinking how someone isn't a problem.

Simple statements with no firm stances on subjects

Someone was in here arguing that PDP wasn't an issue because he apologized after every incident (fucking loony ass thought process there)

Greg coming in here and basically saying "I'm sorry you took it that way" rather than making an exact statement

People fucking vouched for that douchebag Destiny the other day. The guy who says 'I don't care about minorities, women etc"... That guy's a fucking ally to them. Wtf?


Minorities don't get this luxury or extend this leeway because these views and actions are detrimentally harmful to us. This shit costs us our lives at times. We don't have any time to be fucking with people who can't exactly decry problematic & racist people when they on they bullshit.

It's like white people needs someone to burn a cross and wear a hood (even a MAGA Hat gives you leeway) in order to straight up call someone out for bullshit. Everything else is plausible and you're still possibly an "ally"

How do Minorities define someone who is fighting for the cause? Somebody who stays informed on subjects matter, someone who can make firm stances against those with bullshit, someone who speaks out and stands up against bigotry when they see it, and someone who's able to listen consistently and evolve because there isn't an endpoint.


All of this really shows just how uninvolved most White People are. And how they just truly don't give a fuck at the end of the day.

 

[TheRuralJuror]

This looks like people fighting their allies more than their enemies. He's good but not good enough kinda shit.

Threads like this always make me have mental images of sharks having a feeding frenzy.

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It's simply people posting some opinions on a forum. We don't need the hyperbole every time a few people share a similar viewpoint, it happens and very rarely are there ever that many people acting as crazy as y'all imply.

This thread is a mess. What could've of been an easy opportunity to express disappointment and fairly criticize KF's middle of the road stance, maybe even be a teaching experience, got waaay too charged and it is now a shit show of personal biases from personal insults, they've always sucked, to shit about Colin who has nothing to do with this, to Bob whatever to people actually asking unironically if Greg will step down. Doing waaay too much.

What else would it mean?

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Plenty of people provided varied and respectful opinions. Some didn't. The big reason these threads even get so big is because every wiseguy has to come in and cherry pick a few comments, then spend the rest of their time admonishing everyone else as if they're engaging in such behavior rather than ignoring the nonsense and moving on.

 

[Deleted member 835]

You speaking fire and truth but they not hearing you though.

This thread is interesting because it shows just how bare and baseline it is to appease white people into thinking how someone isn't a problem.

Simple statements with no firm stances on subjects

Someone was in here arguing that PDP wasn't an issue because he apologized after every incident (fucking loony ass thought process there)

Greg coming in here and basically saying "I'm sorry you took it that way" rather than making an exact statement

People fucking vouched for that douchebag Destiny the other day. The guy who says 'I don't care about minorities, women etc"... That guy's a fucking ally to them. Wtf?


Minorities don't get this luxury or extend this leeway because these views and actions are detrimentally harmful to us. This shit costs us our lives at times. We don't have any time to be fucking with people who can't exactly decry problematic & racist people when they on they bullshit.

It's like white people needs someone to burn a cross and wear a hood (even a MAGA Hat gives you leeway) in order to straight up call someone out for bullshit. Everything else is plausible and you're still possibly an "ally"

How do Minorities define someone who is fighting for the cause? Somebody who stays informed on subjects matter, someone who can make firm stances against those with bullshit, someone who speaks out and stands up against bigotry when they see it, and someone who's able to listen consistently and evolve because there isn't an endpoint.


All of this really shows just how uninvolved most White People are. And how they just truly don't give a fuck at the end of the day.

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This

 

[Dirtyshubb]

It's like white people needs someone to burn a cross and wear a hood (even a MAGA Hat gives you leeway) in order to straight up call someone out for bullshit. Everything else is plausible and you're still possibly an "ally".

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Its always been like this in any thread about white nationalists and the far right.

I have lost count at the amount of people who chastise us who call out people for their fascist attitudes and actions and use the "how can you compare them to nazis, they haven't killed 6 million Jews", ignoring the fact that the nazis weren't doing that day one and gradually built to that point.

I wish I could find it but there is a news story leading up to ww2 where someone was arguing that Jews should just be nicer to nazis to win them over, so this centrist bullshit has been around forever it seems.

 

[Deleted member 4034]

It's simply people posting some opinions on a forum. We don't need the hyperbole every time a few people share a similar viewpoint, it happens and very rarely are there ever that many people acting as crazy as y'all imply.


Plenty of people provided varied and respectful opinions. Some didn't. The big reason these threads even get so big is because every wiseguy has to come in and cherry pick a few comments, then spend the rest of their time admonishing everyone else as if they're engaging in such behavior rather than ignoring the nonsense and moving on.

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I've been reading this thread since Tuesday night, don't "it's just a few people/rare instances/you're cherry picking me".