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Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
Sssshhhhh that doesn't fit the angry mob mentality right now. Nobody wants your context and explanations. We want outrage at headlines before reading the body. We don't have time to actually watch the video, this is 2019. We got our tweets drafted already and we want to know where the bodies are buried at KF. Even if that means spending our entire day looking up old tweets of Greg Miller defending his best friend.
We got context though?

So i transcribed the first part of the conversation about notch. Its late so I'll do the second half tomorrow but I really dont want people trying to act like this wasnt a soft defense for notch here.

5:23

G"number one on the report, Notch is not invited to the Minecraft anniversary. This is from Brian Chris Shantay over at variety who writes "Minecraft creator Markus notch"-is that a person that's a person right? –"who sold the title to Microsoft for 2.5 billions dollars in 2014 wont be part 0f the 10 year anniversary plans for the game because of his quote "comments and opinions" Microsoft tell variety. Quote "his comments and opinions do not reflect those of Microsoft or mo yang and are not representative of Minecraft" a Microsoft spokesperson told variety. A spokesperson also noted that knotch hasn't been involved with Minecraft since he sold the studio and rights to the game in 2014.

Notch, once an involved member of the video game development community has increasingly ostracized himself with his Twitter comments including transphobic statements and comments about heterosexual pride day and that quote "its ok to be white". Notch has about 3.7 million followers on Twitter. Uhhmmm Andrea how do you feel about this?

A: This is not shocking at all

G: No

A: quite frankly I don't know why its news. He hasn't been involved in Minecraft since he sold it right?

G Well this is because theyre doing this anniversary thing right? This anniversary celebration right? That is some event that's gonna have, talk about the past present and future of Minecraft. I think THAT'S where it comes down to maybe uh and that's something that maybe everyones missed out on, everyones reporting on this now it was Christian at variety had an exclusive to being with. I think that that's where it stems from the fact that, cool, so the creator of it isn't involved with this 10 year celebration right and is that ok? Is that the way it should be and how does that go? And obviously youre Microsoft you own it, how do you want the brand to be recognized?

A: its certainly not the way it should be, it should be that notch was continuing to stay invested in his community and the thing that built his wealth to what it is and that he would appreciate the amazing support that players all over the world have given support to the thing that he created with you know the team at muang but that's just not the way he has been.

G: Sure

A: and so I think its not surprising that this is the way it is, its just disappointing and a little bit sad and what in one sense but should he be involved or like does he need to be? Absolutely not cur I think that individual creators and players of Minecraft, the millions of millions of people around the world have been paying for a decade or whatever

G: yeah

A: Have really embodied what Minecraft is and its not just on notch. Obviously he will always forever hold a place in minecrafts history but

G: yeah he shouldn't ever be erased from the record books right?

A: no of course not, never. I'm not suggesting that at all

G:oh no I wasn't saying that you were

A: but I'm just saying you can have a ten year anniversary celebration without him if he is willfully choosing to not partake. Its just a bummer you know?

G: Sure. And so you say hes willfully-hes participating not to or hes choosing not to be apart of it because of the way hes acting online

A: I imagine that he just doesn't want to be, he just doesn't want to be there-

G: well no this is

A: he doesn't do public speaking engagements, he doesn't do like autograph sessions, he doesn't do con appearances or panels or literally anything he stays out of the public spotlight

G: sure but I think the story here is Microsfots not letting, wont even have him. That's whats happening right? Is that, my

A: hmm

G: let me reread it right? But uh "notch wont be part of the 10 year Minecraft anniversary celebration plans for the game because-

A: is that what youre getting from that statement?

G: yeah because of his comments and opinions quote "his comments and opinions do not reflect those of Microsoft and moyang and are not representative of Minecraft.

A: so you think the story here is theyre actively saying

G: the story here is saying Minecraft is saying youre not allowed, were not inviting him hes not part of this

A: hmm I don't know

G: similar to how they made headlines a couple weeks ago maybe a couple months ago but now where one of the loading screens got updated to take out a reference to him because they always have the funny little things when you load up Minecraft

A: I don't know if that's a fair extrapolation to make

G: really?

A; I don't because MS is a gigantic global corporation it in their legal interests to say that they don't, their individual creators comments opinions don't reflect that of the company at large

G: sure

A: I don't know if that is equal to them saying we don't want you here

G: hmm I would I-

A; I would honestly be pretty surprised if notch had expressed an interest in wanting to be involved and MS said no thanks. That to me would be disappointing on Microsofts part.

G: ok. Because yeah what im getting from this is is, the lead from, Brendan Sinclair over at games industry dot biz, MS is continuing to distance themselves from notch the minecrafter creator who sold the franchise yadda yadda-variety has received confirmation from MS that it wont involve at a moyang event in May intended to mark the game's 10th anniversary. So if Im reverse engineering this correctly, the way I see it is the thing got announced the 10th anniversary, Brian reached out to them and was like I didn't see notch on this and theyre like were not working with notch, we wont- his comments and opinions do not reflect Microsoft of Minecraft

A; Its pr speak I wish they would just

G: well sure it says hes a loose cannon who says all this crazy fucking shit

A: I wish they would just come out and say we will no longer be working with notch instead of this pr speak of "his comments and opinions do not reflect those of MS. Obviously they don't they make that disclaimer for anyone that speaks on behalf of MS (laughs)

G: sure

A: unless theyre intentionally a representative of MS from the communications team right?

G: right well I think they go out of their in the Cresente piece to say that again right? " the spokesperson also said that notch hasn't been involved with Minecraft since he sold the studio and the right to the game in 2014.

A: yeah that's true

G; I think that's what it is just coming back to is that it, MS is very clear Notch is not part of this and in this point its doing that as well. Its just weird this time around that because it is hey it's the 10th anniversary youre doing this event celebrating the past of it

A: mhmm

G: are you going to have their creator there? No were not because he says weird ass horrible mean shit on twitter all the time

A:its yeah lets just take it back not to say that that's not true cause he does say some really wacky stuff. I think that it still comes down to notch putting, drawing the line in the sane a long time ago, years ago, saying I just don't want to be involved with them anymore. Hes said as much publicly that hes like Im done with Minecraft, so.

G: sure. Interesting

A: I guess that it makes MS look good if theyre like "yeah we don't want to be involved with him anymore"

G: sure

A: its like the whole thing just feels like drama

G: well I feel like just because he got approached right?

A: insert my drama gif here laughs

G: well im sure MS would prefer not to have any reason-

A: yeah

G: to talk about this. Im sure cresescentin looking at this and going " wait 10th anniversary is notch gonna be there?

A: and well and now were talking about it (laughs)

G: and well that's the thing though right that's how the video game news right yeah exactly. Don't get me wrong-

A: we don't get enough hot gossip Greg

G: MS was definitely prepared for this question and

A: of course they are

G: and here they are taking a stance-his comments and opinion do not reflect those in-I mean that is them saying his transphobic homophobic bullshit that he said before itsnt going to be tolerated for us

A: good

G: and that is starting the conversation again tho of and-I haven't even seen this take but Im sure this take exists which is that right, like how does that work and I think that is the company MS is trying to build for the gaming community, most of us are trying to build, that makes sense. That yeah you know freedom of speech whatever youre allowed to go say whatever fucking

A: true

G: horrible shit you wanna say on the internet but theres gonna be ramifications and that's not how youre protected if that's how it happens right?

A; yeah you know Im with you 100% there, there should be ramifications for sure, I just don't think there are here because notch doesn't give a fuck (laughs)

G: sure that's what, yeah I know right? But

A: its like oh cool youre not inviting the guy who didn't want to go (laughs)

G: I wanna check if he actually said anything yet since these stories started popping

A; yeah worth looking it up for sure

G: nah doesn't look like it

A: but this is like yeah, sure, ok.

(both laugh)

G: youre just like yeah sure whatever?

A: MS is not inviting notch because he doesn't want to go and they don't want him there looks like everyones happy

G: Sure but I think its gonna be interesting is, yeah youre right whatever, everyones happy on it it I guess but

A: except for Brian Crescente, whose really upset (laughs)

G: Well you kidding me hes in love with this? Crescente right now, everyone talking about his article? That's what you want when you write these pieces. And when you get this thing that now everyone has to pick up and everyone has to come to him because they have to source and pay for it. Its just the question of, yeah, now that-youre right lets say that, you've said, notch doesn't like doing this shit to begin with you who fucking cares, but now that theyre like now were not inviting notch because hes a dick on twitter for all its, lets read between the lines right? Hes says horrible things

A: this is MS just trying to look good I guess? Idk? Take a stand? I think its important that large companies vocalize their tolerance or lack of tolerance for certain behaviors of people that are associated with their brand because

G: Sure

A: because theres not enough brands I think that take a stand because theyre afraid-

G: everyone wants to be wishy washy-everyone wants to try and be as mainstream as possible and not take stands

A: yeah they don't want to rock the boat or upset business as the bottom line right?

G: right

A: but I don't think that their statements are particularly controversial, like oh cool youre not inviting notch. Alright?

G: but but its controversial

A; no greg Im not letting (inaudible)

G: (sarcastically) don't you understand how the internet works now? Us vs them, right vs left, sjws vs, bad people? I don't know what the other of that one is

A: alt right

G: oh yeah alt right but that's how its gotta be everybodys gotta be mad about something andrea

A: ok Im not gonna get mad today tho greg

Ramble on game of thrones
 

ZeroDS

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
3,419
I don't want to derail this thread or anything but something I want to discuss.

People comparing this to when Colin left the company are missing something. Colin was right leaning and opinionated. When he made that awful dumbass joke everyone came out and rightly chucked his ass to curb over it.

Greg is literally a nothing burger, he has no strong opinions on anything and has become a glorified hype man (this is coming from someone who has listened to him since his IGN days). I feel like the only reason people aren't complaining about him and Andrea handwaving this shit is because unlike Colin they keep their mouths shut which is just as fucking dangerous.

I'm not saying anyone needs to be thrown out over this. Colin being called out was a good thing. But when the same people who called him out aren't willing to call out this shit I don't know what the fuck is going on.

Maybe I've read this completely wrong and maybe someone can put me back on the right track if I'm wrong. But allies aren't allies if they are not willing to call their friends out over bullshit behaviour. Especially in an industry that really needs to be brought to task for it.
 

Merc_

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,526
It's fun watching people come in here and try and muddy the waters and derail the thread to protect their precious youtubers from any sort of criticism.
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
Sad to see this thread. KF offered a nuanced yet critical take on the mistakes of famous youtubers, acknowledging their flaws and terrible errors, denounced them, and showed appreciation for their (his?) apology and attempt to fix their mistakes.... and we call that handwaiving?

We can recognize the internet's lynch mob mentality for what it is, while also fully recognizing the evils of racism and ethnocentrism. I believe that is what Greg did in this podcast.

I'm likely the same ethnic background as OP, btw, and also a proud practicing religious Muslim (a minority on two fronts) . Both sources of tension yet meaning in my life living in America. So need to check my privilege or handwave away my nuance as covert racism or a minority complex.

If they had a very nuanced and detailed conversation, you might realize that this was about one YouTuber and one former game developer, neither of which has actually ever made any real attempts to make up for their "mistakes." (When it comes to Notch those "mistakes" include being a transphobic, homophobic, anti semitic bigot.) Maybe they didn't do as good a job covering the topic as you think?
 

ultima786

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,711
If they had a very nuanced and detailed conversation, you might realize that this was about one YouTuber and one former game developer, neither of which has actually ever made any real attempts to make up for their "mistakes." (When it comes to Notch those "mistakes" include being a transphobic, homophobic, anti semitic bigot.) Maybe they didn't do as good a job covering the topic as you think?

I'm aware of what and who was talked about. But they made some general comments about youtubers. I'm not defending notch nor that pewdepie guy. But KF's discussion was useful and has something constructive to offer.
 

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,124

DrMario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
242
It's fun watching people come in here and try and muddy the waters and derail the thread to protect their precious youtubers from any sort of criticism.

Not as much fun as seeing people melt down because Greg said "this guy has said horrible things" instead of "i hate this guy so very very much because he's so mean and hateful and i hate him"
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
I'm aware of what and who was talked about. But they made some general comments about youtubers. I'm not defending notch nor that pewdepie guy. But KF's discussion was useful and has something constructive to offer.

I'm not saying you're defending anyone.

I'm saying that categorizing the complaints in this thread as being about just a simple discussion of some YouTubers who made some mistakes is incorrect.


Do people seriously not realize that mixing up any defense of Colin Moriarty in with their defense of Greg does not make Greg look better?

Greg has his own history of troublesome behaviour but Colin was just such a shitstorm for so long that I think Greg went unnoticed.

This also doesn't make Greg look great, though.
 

DrMario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
242
User Banned (2 Weeks): Excusing Bigotry and Antagonizing Other Users Over a Series of Posts
Seriously? You're the biggest bully posting here. Your endless, obsessive harassment of Colin is disgusting and creepy and I don't even remotely like the guy.

Anytime i see era losing their minds over colin, it reminds me of the Tyrion line from GoT. Something like "i wish i was the monster you think i am. "

I don't care for his takes or politics, but this place has just built him into some boogeyman
 

Merc_

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,526
Not as much fun as seeing people melt down because Greg said "this guy has said horrible things" instead of "i hate this guy so very very much because he's so mean and hateful and i hate him"
I haven't seen any meltdowns, but those of you trying to derail this thread away from Greg sure are trying to act like there are.
 

ultima786

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,711
My humble opinion is that Youtube is a destructive platform in the first-place. The problems with it are systematic, whereby young, inexperienced, completely ignorant folks get a platform to say and do what they want. That process will involve some learning and growing, as was the case with probably most of you young people on this email-thread. The only difference is that they do it publically, while you do it privately or within your community. That's the systematic problem. You get to make your stupid mistakes in a way that doesn't destroy you. Maybe that's their fault for stepping into that world, but I assure you, they step into that public role fully ignorant of what the consequences of their actions are.

In all honestly, the problem is the culture youtube created. The problem is a culture where we think people who know nothing and have no credentials other than being jokers, jesters, and entertainers are given a platform to affect public discourse. A lot of this is on us - those who watch them and comment on them (I don't, but you know what I mean)

Just throwing this out there to get some of us to think a little deeper than just pitch-fork riot against some stupid, ignorant youtubers. (Which they are, btw).

I think KF did up-the-discourse a bit with that latest podcast, so that's why I'm just saying - there is something constructive that they are offering! It's not comprehensive or complete, but it's an ok start to a discussion.

Edit: I should add, that some mistakes are worth punishing or naturally have consequences. But there has to be some greater amount of nuance and precision regarding what those are. The hive-mind or the mob is currently not in a place where it can appreciate any nuance or precision at all, so that's why im offering this perspective and asking to at least think about some of the positive aspects of KF's discussion. BTW, I'm actually mostly referring to Greg Miller's comments. I didn't appreciate Andrea's comments as much.
 
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jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Not as much fun as seeing people melt down because Greg said "this guy has said horrible things" instead of "i hate this guy so very very much because he's so mean and hateful and i hate him"
That's not what's happening but continue distorting the narrative to protect a YouTube personality you like

Oh you got banned. Well cool now we can get back onto the topic without your bullshit
 
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Raised in a Barn

Chicken Chaser
Member
Mar 26, 2019
224
I'm aware of what and who was talked about. But they made some general comments about youtubers. I'm not defending notch nor that pewdepie guy. But KF's discussion was useful and has something constructive to offer.

Nvm. You posted your diatribe that bassicly says what many dogwhistlers say.

Yeah, we make mistakes. Like put to much flour in the dough, go to our apointements at the wrong time, forget a deadline.
Being racist is not a "mistake". Being hateful against others is not a "mistake"
Notch and PDP know full well who they are and what they are doing, either they don't care or thats the person they want to be. If they didnt want to be like that they would apologize and show proof of bettering themselves, they will not, and until they do one day (maybe) nobody should sitt on the sideline and wait for that day.
 
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kiaaa

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,844
My humble opinion is that Youtube is a destructive platform in the first-place. The problems with it are systematic, whereby young, inexperienced, completely ignorant folks get a platform to say and do what they want. That process will involve some learning and growing, as was the case with probably most of you young people on this email-thread. The only difference is that they do it publically, while you do it privately or within your community. That's the systematic problem. You get to make your stupid mistakes in a way that doesn't destroy you. Maybe that's their fault for stepping into that world, but I assure you, they step into that public role fully ignorant of what the consequences of their actions are.

In all honestly, the problem is the culture youtube created. The problem is a culture where we think people who know nothing and have no credentials other than being jokers, jesters, and entertainers are given a platform to affect public discourse. A lot of this is on us - those who watch them and comment on them (I don't, but you know what I mean)

Just throwing this out there to get some of us to think a little deeper than just pitch-fork riot against some stupid, ignorant youtubers. (Which they are, btw).

christ, man. "racism isn't the problem, youtube is."
 

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,124
Anytime i see era losing their minds over colin, it reminds me of the Tyrion line from GoT. Something like "i wish i was the monster you think i am. "

I don't care for his takes or politics, but this place has just built him into some boogeyman

You aren't even supposed to speak his name here. They literally treat him like Voldemort lol
 

Rndom Grenadez

Prophet of Truth
Member
Dec 7, 2017
5,633
"He's an ally, he's an ally"

...they all yell for the white dude who rolled over and let his cohost say some really dumb shit.

You wanna know who else, once upon a time, claimed to be an ally? Colin Moriarty. Folks defended him too at one point.

Folks need to stop stupidly assigning the label of "ally" just because a white dude hasn't blatantly said racist shit.

Real talk here.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
I always enjoy when posters come in here talking about people who aren't given a platform and get butt hurt about while willingly exposing that theyre fans. Thanks for the heads up, the lot of you.
 

Nerokis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,562
Not as much fun as seeing people melt down because Greg said "this guy has said horrible things" instead of "i hate this guy so very very much because he's so mean and hateful and i hate him"

Why are you melting down at the sight of someone who will be perfectly fine being criticized for allowing his co-host to successfully equivocate on a white supremacist being a piece of garbage?

My humble opinion is that Youtube is a destructive platform in the first-place. The problems with it are systematic, whereby young, inexperienced, completely ignorant folks get a platform to say and do what they want. That process will involve some learning and growing, as was the case with probably most of you young people on this email-thread. The only difference is that they do it publically, while you do it privately or within your community. That's the systematic problem. You get to make your stupid mistakes in a way that doesn't destroy you. Maybe that's their fault for stepping into that world, but I assure you, they step into that public role fully ignorant of what the consequences of their actions are.

This couldn't be less relevant. We're not talking about random, youthful YouTubers. We're talking about adults with massive platforms who have engaged in damaging patterns of behavior. And by the way, one of those adults happens to be a billionaire and the other a millionaire. They'll be alright.

Seriously, you're characterizing the act of criticizing someone as destroying them, while defending people who have engaged with rather terrible rhetoric as just being unfortunate, naive fools who stumbled into getting rich and famous off of the internet. It's kind of unbelievable.
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
Greg has his own history of troublesome behaviour but Colin was just such a shitstorm for so long that I think Greg went unnoticed.

Okay, this is straight up not a good look at all more so in public. That said, all things being equal, he learned to be better over the years. I am not a fan of digging up people's past for judgement; it can provide context and perspective on change, for those who do. I say this as someone who used to be a bigot because I grew up in a family of bigots and while I was not a public figure, I have said out loud a lot of regrettable shit in retrospect. Pretty sure he, along with many folks, even here feel the same way as part of their growth and have turned over new leaves since then for the better.

The issues that ail KFG atm is not related to his past tbh.
 

thecowboypoet

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,008
I wondered how long it would take someone to dredge up that 7 year old video.

Yes, you got me, I watched hundreds of hours of Colin and Greg Live, Podcast Beyond, and Up At Noon today find that!! No, I use to be a big Podcast Beyond and Kinda Funny fan and watched that live. That one sprung to mind, same with the semi-scandal after Kinda Funny Live 1.
 
Oct 29, 2017
240
Waypoint folks and Giant Bomb are pretty good, though GB doesn't come down quite as hard on some of these dudes as they deserve. They've actively condemned white supremacy, sexism, and transphobia before, but I thought they were a tad soft on Pewdiepie.

From memory, Easy Allies were at least condemning of PDP and THQ Nordic following their controversies.

In particular, Ben Moore came down on PDP after the N-word thing and Huber was really harsh about THQ Nordic.
 

SamWilson

Alt account
Banned
Mar 14, 2019
217
Yes, you got me, I watched hundreds of hours of Colin and Greg Live, Podcast Beyond, and Up At Noon today find that!! No, I use to be a big Podcast Beyond and Kinda Funny fan and watched that live. That one sprung to mind, same with the semi-scandal after Kinda Funny Live 1.

I never said you were digging to find bad stuff. But whenever people criticize Greg, I always wait for someone to post that video as "proof" that he's some kind of monster.

I also have no idea what "semi-scandal" you're referring to after KFL1 (which I attended).
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,292
Greg just kinda sits there and nods no matter what his co-host says. He has opinions he just never expresses them if his co-host disagrees. It's really annoying and the dude's gotta add more to the conversation than complacent agreeability. Like Andrea is a hardcore EA shill, she defends them non-stop, and he just agrees. Gary Whitta goes on and talks about how horrible he thinks EA is, Greg just agrees. He should also do more research before he talks about such a sensitive topic.





Fuck Andrea Rene though. Greg was being a dumbass, Andrea knew exactly what she was saying.
 

Icemonk191

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,814
"Guys stop being mean to Greg, if you look at his past you'll see what kind of person he is!"

"No wait stop looking at his past!"
 

Kilic95

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,393
Chireiden
I never said you were digging to find bad stuff. But whenever people criticize Greg, I always wait for someone to post that video as "proof" that he's some kind of monster.

Was he not an adult 7 years ago? Why did he think that was appropriate to do?

We are allowed to discuss this. If he has learned from back then, good. Doesn't change the fact that its gross.
 

Luckydog

Attempting to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
636
USA
Okay, this is straight up not a good look at all more so in public. That said, all things being equal, he learned to be better over the years. I am not a fan of digging up people's past for judgement; it can provide context and perspective on change, for those who do. I say this as someone who used to be a bigot because I grew up in a family of bigots and while I was not a public figure, I have said out loud a lot of regrettable shit in retrospect. Pretty sure he, along with many folks, even here feel the same way as part of their growth and have turned over new leaves since then for the better.

The issues that ail KFG atm is not related to his past tbh.

You don't see a difference here? That video is fucking terrible. Greg has repeatedly told the story about how he learned to be "woke" about gay issues after being exposed to homosexuals in college. So he learned to treat people with respect in college......unless you can make a terrible google search request......in front of tons of people..... and the actress herself?
 

Teamocil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,132
Greg has his own history of troublesome behaviour but Colin was just such a shitstorm for so long that I think Greg went unnoticed.
That is from 2012. You can pull up shit front ANYONE's pst and find something awful. Let's grow up here. Judge him on this video? Sure. Something from 7 years ago? That's stupid childish shit

Was he not an adult 7 years ago? Why did he think that was appropriate to do?

We are allowed to discuss this. If he has learned from back then, good. Doesn't change the fact that its gross.

People are allowed to grow, even as adults. Is this a serious stance you're trying to take?

What benefit does discussing this have to the current issue?
 
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