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Greg Miller and Andrea Rene handwave Notch and PewDiePie racist, transphobic and anti-semitic behaviour (UP: GM and AR respond; see threadmarks)
- Thread starter LebGuns
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Too many people belive centrism and moderation in stopping extremism is fundamentally correct.
Its a problem of not having a strong enough flank on the left to properly contextualize the arguments we've been having.
gameovergreggy
I'm glad you took some time to respond to this. As a big fan of Gamescoop and Beyond podcasts way back, I was saddened to see you and Andrea present such an ill informed take on Notch. All other criticisms aside, what is your response to those of us that would like to see an awareness of the context surrounding these topics when they are discussed on your show? Are you willing to actually do the research on a topic before it is discussed on your show? I don't think you are a bigot, but bigots thrive on the ignorance of the general populace. If you're going to cover hot topics, is it too much to ask that you do enough research to adequately form a nuanced opinion on a controversial topic? Since you launched KFG, I'm not sure if you'd still consider yourself a journalist. But if you do, then perhaps it's worth taking the time to familiarize yourself with the context before doing your audience a disservice. I don't think that's too much to ask, because if you don't know about something, you can always just say "I'll look into it, maybe that's a good topic for the next show". Instead of these hot takes that fall for talking points that bigots use from the streets to the Oval Office, maybe try to do some due diligence so that you don't have to after the fact. Just a suggestion.
I'm glad you took some time to respond to this. As a big fan of Gamescoop and Beyond podcasts way back, I was saddened to see you and Andrea present such an ill informed take on Notch. All other criticisms aside, what is your response to those of us that would like to see an awareness of the context surrounding these topics when they are discussed on your show? Are you willing to actually do the research on a topic before it is discussed on your show? I don't think you are a bigot, but bigots thrive on the ignorance of the general populace. If you're going to cover hot topics, is it too much to ask that you do enough research to adequately form a nuanced opinion on a controversial topic? Since you launched KFG, I'm not sure if you'd still consider yourself a journalist. But if you do, then perhaps it's worth taking the time to familiarize yourself with the context before doing your audience a disservice. I don't think that's too much to ask, because if you don't know about something, you can always just say "I'll look into it, maybe that's a good topic for the next show". Instead of these hot takes that fall for talking points that bigots use from the streets to the Oval Office, maybe try to do some due diligence so that you don't have to after the fact. Just a suggestion.
Hey, greggy. Don't be a coward, don't say 'fuck bigotry' without condemning bigots by their names.
And don't try that stupid 'why can't we just get along' shtick by playing a moderator in a discussion you are (by your own admission) ignorant about. Not to mention your co-host, who is perfectly happy to defend racists.
PR people holding a discussion on racism, what a joke.
No he actually isn't. You can't say he's better than Notch when he's done nothing to disassociate himself from Nazis and even made a nazi joke after Charlottesville.
Europeans dont know the specific context of dehumanization of African American blacks by using a word specifically created for that purpose. Now i have heard everything
Reminds me of this https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40555639
Reminds me of this https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40555639
User Banned (Permanent): Antagonizing other members, history of excusing prejudice and abuse, previous severe infractions
The irony is that this thread is 90% people having a go and some podcasters who are essentially well meaning but failed to caveat everything with "BUT THESE PEOPLE ARE ASSHOLES HASHTAG CANCELLED".
It's s classic "internet angry person" play. The whole "fuck these people for not condemning things I don't like" nonsense of those who can't bear to acknowledge people think differently from them when it states them in the face.
"Fuck these people for not condemning things i dont like".
So...your saying not properly condeming racism and bigotry and enabling white supremacists who have committed acts of genocide in their name are now personal opinions we must respect?
Saying that people criticizing Notch and Pewdiepie for enabling(or outright parroting in Notch's case) white supremacist language and actions are just apart of an outrage mob?
My guy.....sincerely.....fuck off.
Racism, homophobia and transphobia are a little more than 'things I don't like', they're things for which active repellent is beneficial. The 'both sides be better' line is flawed, shallow and misplaced when used after discussing bigotry, even if well intentioned.
I'm sorry, could you please look at Notch history on Twitter etc and tell me how far right rhetoric falls under "things I don't like" instead of rampant bigotry?
So "things I don't like"= racism, bigotry, and transphobia now? That is a seriously fucked up statement to make.
People die due to transphobia, homophobia, racism, ect. It isn't just unpalatable, it's inhumane and harmful to society. If you don't care enough to speak up, you should care more.
You are pretty much stating being a racist, a transophobic, a bigot and promoting white supremacy to the point of people carrying massacres of innocents in their name is just a valid way of thinking.
Go fuck yourself.
Listen - we, right thinking people are obviously against racism and bigotry, ok? But it's a personal choice the extent each of us are involved in the politics of engaging with it, there's a spectrum of how it's approached. For some people, it's an everyday crusade, and that's fine. Other people choose not to engage in it actively like Greg and Andrea in this example. But it's not like they're racist bigots is it? They're just guilty in this instance of not engaging with it as strongly as you'd like them to, and that's up to them.
you can be wrong it's fine, Colin is terrible and there's a reason why he's largely ignored.
Racism has never completely died in Europe, its just that the huge majority of people knew exactly what it lead to the last time it went overboard, and no one wants his neighborhood to be a Battlefield again.
The ones using variations of the n-word are mostly old people but even among them, most are aware of the negative connotation it has (based on last week where I spent the entire week being hospitalized).
In the meantime however racism has been on the rise again, and it became painfully obvious after the 2016 US presidential election. The election of Trump gave far-right wingers as well as racist enough ammo to be a little more loose, to actually say what they mean. With all that said, it's still not like there's two groups of people living in the same country, there's still a sense of community.
There are Black communities all over Europe, but the biggest Hotspot for Black communities is definitely France. I myself have family over in France, and from my visits I would say it's not far fetched to say that , based on skin color, black people are the second largest group in France. That's without lokking it up tho.
As for seeing a difference in how people treat me: Generally no. I do say of myself that I'm a nice guy who is respectful towards others, so this might play a role in as why I am able to get along with so many people, but I would be lying if I said that there aren't a couple of small things I occasionally notice that rub me the wrong way. It's small stuff like suggesting mostly black woman for me as dating options based on nothing but skin color, or asking me about weird things other African people did because "it might be a thing in Africa".
But that's really just miniscule stuff.
As for the question if I ever went to the states, no I did not. And to be completely honest: I'm scared to do so. Alone at least.
I know it sounds silly, but all the police brutality stuff makes me scared. I know that the possibility of me running into a racist cop is low, especially on a vacation, but it's the fact that it's not impossible, the fact that the absolute worst possible outcome of looking at a policeman is my own death, makes me hella scared. I'm more than ready to visit Asian countries, who aren't huge on black people as well, but at least in this case I don't feel like asking the police for help is playing Russian roulette. I'm trying to get rid of that irrational fear, but it's gonna take a while.
I hope my answers were satisfying for you. You can always ask me if you want to know anything else :)
It's not a huge deal to comment on them, just be prepared to be wrong, to modify your views, and to state publicly your wrongness. I've learned a lot by saying wrong things online.
I'm not saying it's valid, but it is a way of thinking. I don't agree with it at all, but you can't deny a significant number of people in the world think like that.
Why do these conversations have to end up in "go fuck yourself" so quickly?
I've seen you defend him more than once. Where does the ardor for his defense come from? He doesn't seem like a good person.
It is up to them but that makes them a spineless coward. My question for you would be why do you want to defend a spineless coward? They are just as likely to turn their back on you when its convenient for them to do so.
Edit: well that was quick.
Actually, great point. it is a way to grow as a person. I think this is completely valid. I think your true colours show eventually if you are a POS but man, I'm shocked at what I've seen and read today. :(
"its a way of thinking a lot of people have so we should not criticize it". I mean...no, that's what you do. That's exactly what you do. Even if you support free speech, you are free to critisize speech and language that is reprehensible. Right wingers get off on saying that free speech equals they should not be criticized in any measure.
How is there anything wrong with saying "it's ok to be white"? That seems ridiculous to me
On a separate note, I find Greg Miller incredibly annoying
On a separate note, I find Greg Miller incredibly annoying
Same old excuse. You don't have to be American or understand "American politics" to know that SJW and the n word have a negative and hateful connotation.
Is it just so difficult for people to not spread hate with words or actions? Is it so difficult behaving like a decent human being?
Have you been in touch with them to express your thoughts and if so how did they respond?
I don't mean to insult you...but are you unaware of the fact that white people convincing themselves of victim status through minorities asking for equal rights is an extremely prevalent aspect of the white supremacist movement at this particular point in time?
Or do you not know about the concern over white birthrates and white genocide(which i'm not sure how you could not know) just by implication of non whites breeding at a different rate?
Greg has been in this thread and he's essentially handwaved the whole thing and did not address the concerns raised
Because it's a reactionary kneejerk against discussions of racism and entertains the notion that white people are somehow under attack in society.
Depends on context but your saying its ok to be white in reference to racist remarks said by someone, that makes you suspect.
Edit: Should also point out that saying "its ok to be white" is a tactic used by nazis and white supremsists for decades now so when someone says that people who know the historical context of using a phrase like that immediately question your intention.
You haven't insulted me. I guess I'd have to listen to the context in this case, but saying its okay to be whatever color is innocuous on its own and I'd have to agree with whoever said it
nope. that's not what was said. no random person said 'it's okay to be whatever color.' a white supremacist said 'it's ok to be white' as though whites are victims in today's society.
The Trending Gamer Award isn't cursed, it's just that most of these trendsetters and influencers are the worst the internet has to offer and flip flop from one opinion to the next - as long as it gets there name out there and increases their views or subs.
If Geoff continues to honour these folks then The Game Awards have just lost one viewer as he is as bad as them by enabling them.
If Geoff continues to honour these folks then The Game Awards have just lost one viewer as he is as bad as them by enabling them.
And that's the bottomline....
And the BIGGEST problem. That little puff piece Greg put out, seems more like PR damage control rather than actual genuine remorse.
Nah i think he's just a privileged white dude playing his useful idiot part.
I dont know from what nation you hail from, but not all races are seen as equal.
In far right circles, white people generally even see raising the historical crimes done against minority populations as shaming whites. And so it becomes a circumstance where denying the historical and modern priviledge of whites and the oppression of minority populations becomes a key aspect of white supremacy.
"I dont have to apologize for being white", and "i dont have to take responsibility or even acknowledge how history influences the modern era through the oppression of minorities" have become synonymous.
If you want to read up on the rest of Notch's comment history, its a doozy. You'll quickly find that the statement is not as innocuous as you think.
Say literally anything about your co-host.
This was my first introduction to the two of you and I'm struggling to understand how you can come here with an explanation that doesn't address her behavior. Your own was still not as you described it, but it's amazing to me that you felt it appropriate to not even acknowledge what she said.
If you want to be an unconstructive influencer focused on positivity and selling products, that's totally cool. But then you better stay way from topics such as these. There is no room for fence-sitting. Either prepare and educate yourself on the topic before you speak and formulate a well-researched opinion, or stay away.
Deciding to talk about it because it's the hip topic of the week without properly educating oneself and approaching it the same way you would the new Sonic The Hedgehog movie trailer is just not a good look.
Deciding to talk about it because it's the hip topic of the week without properly educating oneself and approaching it the same way you would the new Sonic The Hedgehog movie trailer is just not a good look.
It's a white supremacist slogan picked specifically because it sounds benign on its face, and thus makes the people that condemn seem hyperbolic to the ignorant bystander.
Because nobody said this until there were proud of Black heritage movements. "It's ok to be white." has nothing to do with being proud. It's purely in response to black pride movements.
Let's also not forget that being white says absolutely nothing about your origins or even your ancestry. You can be proud to be Irish, German, Russian, etc and that wouldn't be inherently racists whatsoever, but instead, they choose to use the term proud to be white.
Stripped of all context there is nothing wrong with that statement. However, a surface level knowledge of Notch and his personal views along with any knowledge of the phrase and how it has been used to antagonise by racists is extremely telling. The phrase may be inoffensive on it's own but the use of it is far from innocuous.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_OK_to_be_white
This is ultimately the main issue with Greg and Andrea not being informed and/or willing to take a stand on the matter. They have a platform to inform and educate their audience, instead of saying "be nice to each other" with all the nuance of a TV show for babies they can use their status to condemn and call out the harmful attitudes of these people, explaining why it is wrong and how we can be better people. By reporting on these issues without the knowledge to take any critical stand on it only serves to legitimise the viewpoints and the people behind them.
Notch was a 4chan guy and built the popularity of Minecraft through the community on /v/. That will always be apart of him and disqualifies him from taking part of polite society where greedy sanitised corporations try to extract the most funds from the middle brow masses through safe family friendly brands. You roll with the pigs, you get mud on you and it never washes off.
I see. I wasn't sure who said it, I thought it was Greg Miller we were talking about
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