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Nov 14, 2017
2,321
I expect really crazy things when I read stuff like this:

Okay that's pretty insane
I wouldn't read this as artists delivering "insane" or "crazy" increases in fidelity over generic assets. Better doesn't necessarily mean in terms of resolution or polycount, but things like cohesiveness of style, environment/world construction through detail etc... The actual assets themselves (be they hand-crafted, procedural or scanned) can be of the exact same "quality" technically but still have a lot of variation in terms of artist input/direction. The UE5 demo for example, had a pretty cohesive environment. But that would have been because they looked at what assets were available and structured the demo and their own asset production to mesh well with them. In a full on game production environment, you don't want that limitation.
 

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,610
I wouldn't read this as artists delivering "insane" or "crazy" increases in fidelity over generic assets. Better doesn't necessarily mean in terms of resolution or polycount, but things like cohesiveness of style, environment/world construction through detail etc... The actual assets themselves (be they hand-crafted, procedural or scanned) can be of the exact same "quality" technically but still have a lot of variation in terms of artist input/direction. The UE5 demo for example, had a pretty cohesive environment. But that would have been because they looked at what assets were available and structured the demo and their own asset production to mesh well with them. In a full on game production environment, you don't want that limitation.
The assets for that demo are all lumped into a "Limestone Quarry" collection on their site. I imagine most of it was gathered from one real world location. The other assets (structures, statues, etc), were probably hand-made by the artists, with the location in mind so the visual look would match. Those other assets are not available for download, obviously... there's not enough there to completely recreate the demo, although creating a cave or quarry that looked the same would be easy enough.

While the stuff available on Quixel's site is impressive, I agree that artists will want more freedom to match the artistic vision of whatever they're making. That in no way means that they can't be of the same fidelity and realistic quality, of course. I think the demo was a good idea of what kind of overall graphical fidelity we'll see next-gen, even if we never see those specific rocks ever again.

Also, Quixel's stuff isn't free. There's a free section with some demo models that I've messed with, but most of it is behind a paywall. For a subscription, you get a number of "points" you can spend to purchase specific assets across the site. I've seen the same system at a few other 3D asset places before. As a hobbyist, the pricing isn't bad for me, but it does get up there for larger multi-seat or multi-site licenses for bigger companies.

Depending on the specific object, you still have to be careful how it's used. I was messing with a larger scale mesh of a rocky cliffside, and it looks amazing from a mid-level distance or higher, but it still doesn't hold up when the camera's really close. They're 8K textures, yes, but they're spread out over a very wide area, so a single rock doesn't have a whole lot of fine detail on it. Smaller objects will of course look better up close because that's what they're made for. I'm sure the close zooms they did with the free camera in the UE5 demo were specially done in areas that could stand up to that kind of scrutiny, while other areas wouldn't.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
the thing that both Quixel and Allegorithmic both tout is the flexibility artists can gain with throwing their scans into their authoring tools. so despite being photo scans, they want you to change them up for cartoony games.
 
Jan 21, 2019
2,902
The assets for that demo are all lumped into a "Limestone Quarry" collection on their site. I imagine most of it was gathered from one real world location. The other assets (structures, statues, etc), were probably hand-made by the artists, with the location in mind so the visual look would match. Those other assets are not available for download, obviously... there's not enough there to completely recreate the demo, although creating a cave or quarry that looked the same would be easy enough.

While the stuff available on Quixel's site is impressive, I agree that artists will want more freedom to match the artistic vision of whatever they're making. That in no way means that they can't be of the same fidelity and realistic quality, of course. I think the demo was a good idea of what kind of overall graphical fidelity we'll see next-gen, even if we never see those specific rocks ever again.

Also, Quixel's stuff isn't free. There's a free section with some demo models that I've messed with, but most of it is behind a paywall. For a subscription, you get a number of "points" you can spend to purchase specific assets across the site. I've seen the same system at a few other 3D asset places before. As a hobbyist, the pricing isn't bad for me, but it does get up there for larger multi-seat or multi-site licenses for bigger companies.

Depending on the specific object, you still have to be careful how it's used. I was messing with a larger scale mesh of a rocky cliffside, and it looks amazing from a mid-level distance or higher, but it still doesn't hold up when the camera's really close. They're 8K textures, yes, but they're spread out over a very wide area, so a single rock doesn't have a whole lot of fine detail on it. Smaller objects will of course look better up close because that's what they're made for. I'm sure the close zooms they did with the free camera in the UE5 demo were specially done in areas that could stand up to that kind of scrutiny, while other areas wouldn't.
Great post. Thank you a lot.

Quick question: do you imagine the near future to focus on accelerators for specific tasks and getting them up to snuff? For example Nvidia only going for 15% better rasta performance and instead boosting bvh traversal efficiency by 80% (just random numbers out of my ass).
 
Oct 2, 2018
3,902
I expect really crazy things when I read stuff like this:


I think it was the TLOU when the end credits rolled and you see all the people they hired to make the world junk from china with the list of names of 3rd party asset modellers. It's not all going to be inhouse @ ND as they outsource content to be made.

Most AAA devs I think have to do this. To get the world fidelity to AAA standards.
 

DoradoWinston

Member
Apr 9, 2019
6,099
I think it was the TLOU when the end credits rolled and you see all the people they hired to make the world junk from china with the list of names of 3rd party asset modellers. It's not all going to be inhouse @ ND as they outsource content to be made.

Most AAA devs I think have to do this. To get the world fidelity to AAA standards.
well of course art is outsourced, your thoughts are correct every AAA title has this. None of these games are ONLY made by Naughty Dog, 343i, The Coalition, Ubi Mon etc

Everything like Art & QA among some other things are and should be outsourced. The more the core team can focus on the important parts of the game the better, for example a level designer or narrative designer probably shouldnt be outsourced but a team that is going to make all the different garbage, foliage etc is probably fine.
 

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,610
Quick question: do you imagine the near future to focus on accelerators for specific tasks and getting them up to snuff? For example Nvidia only going for 15% better rasta performance and instead boosting bvh traversal efficiency by 80% (just random numbers out of my ass).
Me? I have no idea... everything I do is offline rendering, I don't know the first thing about working with game engines, sorry. :)
 

Segafreak

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,756
I wonder what next, next gen (PS6, Scarlett/Series X successor) will have in terms of RAM, memory bandwidth, SSD speed.

32 GB
High Bandwidth Memory - 1.2 to 2.4 TB/s
SSDs with 10+ GB/s transfer speed uncompressed or 20 GB/sec compressed?
I love prediction time! But predictions so far in advance always end up being surpassed by real specs in the end, remember for this gen the general expectation was: no SSD, sub 10TFlops(GCN) because "XboneX is 6tflops at $500 how u expect +10tflop at anything less lol", we only seem to be correct about the RAM at 16GB.

For PS6 in 2027:
48GB RAM
4TB SSD PCIe 6.0 40GB/s uncompressed
60TFLOPz GPU
16 core/32threads Zen 6 @4.5GHz

Playable modern Pixar movie quality games.

giphy.gif


giphy.gif


giphy.gif


PSVR3:
+2,000 ppi 240hz OLED screen
Wireless with 5hour battery
Close to real life FoV
 
OP
OP
ResetEraVetVIP
Nov 20, 2019
1,861
I love prediction time! But predictions so far in advance always end up being surpassed by real specs in the end, remember for this gen the general expectation was: no SSD, sub 10TFlops(GCN) because "XboneX is 6tflops at $500 how u expect +10tflop at anything less lol", we only seem to be correct about the RAM at 16GB.

For PS6 in 2027:
48GB RAM
4TB SSD PCIe 6.0 40GB/s uncompressed
60TFLOPz GPU
16 core/32threads Zen 6 @4.5GHz

Playable modern Pixar movie quality games.

giphy.gif


giphy.gif


giphy.gif


PSVR3:
+2,000 ppi 240hz OLED screen
Wireless with 5hour battery
Close to real life FoV
I made some changes

For PS6 in 2027 imo:
32 to 40GB RAM
4TB SSD PCIe 6.0 40GB/s uncompressed
40 to 50TFLOPz GPU
16 core/32threads Zen 6 @4.5GHz
 

Deleted member 18161

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,805
That TLOU II trailer is stunning in terms of environments and lighting but I personally prefer Ellie's face in the game tbh.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,646
as expected, it looks like current gen +++

we will never see leaps like before in terms of graphics. next gen brings higher ceilings (the worst looking games will still look pretty good) but the top end is capping out and fast. Diminishing returns for sure. Next NEXT gen DR is going to hit even harder. Thats not to say there wont be hot looking games but each gen the leaps are smaller and smaller while requiring more and more power for smaller returns.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Kena and Ratchet and Clank were the two most "next gen" games. but Kena was some good shit.
 

big furb

Member
Dec 2, 2017
23
as expected, it looks like current gen +++

we will never see leaps like before in terms of graphics. next gen brings higher ceilings (the worst looking games will still look pretty good) but the top end is capping out and fast. Diminishing returns for sure. Next NEXT gen DR is going to hit even harder. Thats not to say there wont be hot looking games but each gen the leaps are smaller and smaller while requiring more and more power for smaller returns.

They're launch games, and some of them looked fantastic. I'm not sure what you expected
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,646
They're launch games, and some of them looked fantastic. I'm not sure what you expected

i....got what i expected

current gen graphics on steroids. i expected that going in, and i got what i expected

sorry i missed the part where i said the games looked bad

But nothing made me go HOLY SHIT like snes->64, or psx->Dreamcast, or Nes->snes

those days are gone
 

nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,124
as expected, it looks like current gen +++

we will never see leaps like before in terms of graphics. next gen brings higher ceilings (the worst looking games will still look pretty good) but the top end is capping out and fast. Diminishing returns for sure. Next NEXT gen DR is going to hit even harder. Thats not to say there wont be hot looking games but each gen the leaps are smaller and smaller while requiring more and more power for smaller returns.

What a strange way of framing it. this gen was just last gen ++ then I suppose.

Horizon 2 looks massively more impressive than say RDR2
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,295
Some could even say PS3
But seriously why did Sony show off bugsnacs in the middle of a PS5 conference? 😓
i....got what i expected

current gen graphics on steroids.
I'm slightly disappointed because nothing stuck out to me as "Damn now THAT is giving offline a run for it's money." Mainly because each time I did think that it was because I was....actually looking at offline CG and then the gameplay section came up.
 

NewErakid

Member
Jan 17, 2018
1,089
Some of yall need to get your eyes checked lol i remember when we first saw killzone shadowfall people were saying it didnt look that impressive
 

MajesticSoup

Banned
Feb 22, 2019
1,935
User banned (1 month): Platform wars. Trolling. Prior bans for trolling.
Disappointed that Hellblade is still the best looking next gen game shown. Perhaps PS5 could have used that couple extra teraflops Xbox has.
 
Oct 29, 2017
13,472
There wasn't a Killzone Shadow Fall moment where you knew right away it was a gen apart from the PS3, but we can still get one eventually with a more linear title like say Uncharted 5 and whatnot. Horizon 2 looked good, but if Guerrilla was showing a linear FPS it would have been a bigger jump.
 

JahIthBer

Member
Jan 27, 2018
10,374
Nothing yet that looks like "no way this is running on PS5" it is just early though, still i am kind of expecting similar to current gen visuals with more polish, not a PS3 to PS4 leap.
 

Kemono

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,669
completely agree my dude. For me, HL Alyx was the first WOW MY GOD moment ive had since those other moments i stated.

Quite normal imo.

The rest will "only" be a better version of what we already know. many of the new tchniques are better versions and real versions of prebaked stuff. Most people don't see or don't care about these differences.

I do but i can absolutely understand people beeing a bit underwhelmed. imo the steps are there and i love what was shown tonight but it's mostly stuff me know dialed up to 11.

but on the other end this is just the start. Stuff rom PS4/One launch still look awesome to me but the stuff we got later in the gen was way better. The same will happen with the PS5/Series X.

Can't wait.
 

MonadL

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,887
I would've been more impressed with Horizon had I seen an 8-minute playable demo ala Killzone ShadowFall. Plus the garbage stream didn't help.

Kinda ironic that the Unreal 5 demo is the most impressive piece of next gen gameplay.
 

Kemono

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,669
Gross, don't bring you console war shit in here.

Right back at you.

This isn't console war bullshit. This is common sense.

We saw high budget next-gen only games today and MS already told us that their stuff will be Cross-Gen for at least the first 1-2 years. So please calm yourself and don't jump to conclusions.

Just wait until july. As a Series X day 1 user i'm certainly looking forward to it.
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,072
I think people need to go and look at the game trailers in 4k. this is not even close to current gen.