Graphic Fidelity I Expect Next Gen.

Yogi · Apr 15, 2020

chris 1515 said:
And the game code run on the CPU not the GPU...

Think about the graphics we got with a 970 running full blast at around 40fps. It wasn't close to this. Yet, that could run on a 970 in-engine ... because in-engine means nothing anymore.

"ACTUAL GAMEPLAY FOOTAGE" or bust.

There was a comment by the creator of that scene where he said "it's easy to make things like that in UE4 with no game code". I've been trying to find it but I can't right now.

This was it:

its easy to render in real time, when you have only little part of scene and no have any AI or somthing else hard calculations

Hugare · Apr 15, 2020

Yogi said:
This is in-engine running on a GTX 970:

You won't get that in-game.

And good luck getting anywhere close to that if they have even feeble raytracing leeching the performance.

Again, don't fall for the marketing hype.

Santa Monica will do just that with Kratos and Thor fighting. But better.

But really now, you guys remember The Samaritan demo? We got Batman Arkham Knight 4 years later, an open world game, packing even better graphics on UE 3

Honestly, we dont know for sure how games will look next gen, but I expect a lot of people looking really dumb when revisiting this thread some years from now

CrimsonNocturne · Apr 15, 2020

If we can achieve this on a 1.84tf console at a perfect 30fps @1080p, imagine what PS5 can do at 1440p with some AMD version of DLSS 2.0? With ray-traced shadows so everything has shadows even miles in the distance, even tiny wires and hairs?

Hey Please · Apr 15, 2020

Puts things into perspective:

CrispyGamer · Apr 15, 2020

This thread is a perfect example why im bored of the power arguments for next gen because graphics is already insane, hopefully frame rate is more important to devs next gen with an option of 30 or 60 fps depending on the game.

Rogote · Apr 15, 2020

CrispyGamer said:
This thread is a perfect example why im bored of the power arguments for next gen because graphics is already insane, hopefully frame rate is more important to devs next gen with an option of 30 or 60 fps depending on the game.

This will propably never happen. Developers will always push for visuals at 30fps because that's easy to see in the videos so it's easy to market and 30fps has not been a dealbreaker as evidenced by the gangbuster sales of 30fps AAA games this generation.

dgrdsv · Apr 15, 2020

Perceived graphics fidelity won't increase nearly in line with Tflops numbers. It will be a much more mild upgrade.

Currently available top of the line RT enhanced PC titles are likely very close to what we should expect out of next gen consoles, at least during the first couple of years of them being on the market.

Pancracio17 · Apr 15, 2020

Shredderi said:
This will propably never happen. Developers will always push for visuals at 30fps because that's easy to see in the videos so it's easy to market and 30fps has not been a dealbreaker as evidenced by the gangbuster sales of 30fps AAA games this generation.

Well to be fair the CPU in current gen doesnt help. Basically any developer that wanted to make an open world game was forced to make it 30 fps unless they wanted their world to be as empty as MGSV (and MGSV was kind of a technical miracle anyway).

icecold1983 · Apr 15, 2020

dgrdsv said:
Perceived graphics fidelity won't increase nearly in line with Tflops numbers. It will be a much more mild upgrade.

Currently available top of the line RT enhanced PC titles are likely very close to what we should expect out of next gen consoles, at least during the first couple of years of them being on the market.

For some cross gen launch titles perhaps.

Mindtaker · Apr 15, 2020

Imitation Of Life said:
Maybe not, but I have better looking character models in general IMO. Star Citizen has a lot of impressive tech going on, but looks sterile in general. Just like that clip.

Really?

Where?

Imitation Of Life · Apr 15, 2020

Crossing Eden said:
SC is an MP game.

Davy Jones was 15 years ago.

What does being

Mindtaker said:
Really?

Where?

Last image is impressive. The first two not so much.

Deleted member 56266 · Apr 15, 2020

CrimsonNocturne said:
If we can achieve this on a 1.84tf console at a perfect 30fps @1080p, imagine what PS5 can do at 1440p with some AMD version of DLSS 2.0? With ray-traced shadows so everything has shadows even miles in the distance, even tiny wires and hairs?

Final Fantasy VIIR-2 and XVI are gonna look so good...

Secretofmateria · Apr 15, 2020

CrimsonNocturne said:
If we can achieve this on a 1.84tf console at a perfect 30fps @1080p, imagine what PS5 can do at 1440p with some AMD version of DLSS 2.0? With ray-traced shadows so everything has shadows even miles in the distance, even tiny wires and hairs?

heres the thing about this game though. The MAIN character models look amazing, near flawless, the enviroments with their sub par textures and significantly less detailed npc counterparts suffer GREATLY for the pixel counts if these main characters.

Munstre · Apr 15, 2020

I really hope instead of graphics and production values and polish, next-gen games instead reach for new levels of interactivity and complexity of systems. I'd much rather have ambitious games that are rough around the edges rather than the perfectly beautiful but ultimately dull games that get celebrated so much currently.

eso76 · Apr 15, 2020

Pancracio17 said:
Well to be fair the CPU in current gen doesnt help. Basically any developer that wanted to make an open world game was forced to make it 30 fps unless they wanted their world to be as empty as MGSV (and MGSV was kind of a technical miracle anyway).

MGSV was also cross gen, so basically a game designed to run acceptably on PS360.
That gave developers enough headroom to afford 60fps on current gen.

Nintendo · Apr 15, 2020

dgrdsv said:
Perceived graphics fidelity won't increase nearly in line with Tflops numbers. It will be a much more mild upgrade.

Currently available top of the line RT enhanced PC titles are likely very close to what we should expect out of next gen consoles, at least during the first couple of years of them being on the market.

That's like saying current-gen games look like last-gen games on high-end PC. It doesn't make sense. Games on PC are still designed and developed for the outdated consoles hardware.

Imitation Of Life · Apr 15, 2020

Secretofmateria said:
heres the thing about this game though. The MAIN character models look amazing, near flawless, the enviroments with their sub par textures and significantly less detailed npc counterparts suffer GREATLY for the pixel counts if these main characters.

I don't that think that is the real reason why the visuals are inconsistent. I guess we can compare it to TLOU2 and GoT when they drop.

eebster · Apr 15, 2020

So many pessimists in here. We know how insane games look like on an a 1,8tf machine, we have the Hellblade trailer to gauge how insane games could look like next gen and still there's so many people in here acting like we shouldn't expect to be impressed with next gen graphics.

With that said tho, I kinda wish these consoles came out a year later because right now it feels like we are in sort of a transition phase. A year later these consoles would have probably a way better raytracing solution, 7nm+, probably AMD's aquivalent of DLSS. DLSS alone would've been worth the wait imo

Imitation Of Life · Apr 15, 2020

eebster said:
So many pessimists in here. We know how insane games look like on an a 1,8tf machine, we have the Hellblade trailer to gauge how insane games could look like next gen and still there's so many people in here acting like we shouldn't expect to be impressed with next gen graphics.

With that said tho, I kinda wish these consoles came out a year later because right now it feels like we are in sort of a transition phase. A year later these consoles would have probably a way better raytracing solution, 7nm+, probably AMD's aquivalent of DLSS. DLSS alone would've been worth the wait imo

A year later and there would be other stuff missing. We need these consoles now. I'm way over this gen.

Crossing Eden · Apr 15, 2020

Imitation Of Life said:
What does being

That level of quality would be super impressive in a SP title, let alone MP.

methane47 · Apr 15, 2020

Mathieran said:
I'm honestly good with graphics the way they are now. I'm not a developer so perhaps I am wrong, but I feel like graphics like that would continue to cause budgets to explode for AAA games and would make them even less risk adverse.

Yup me too

ken_matthews · Apr 15, 2020

jett said:
This isn't what I expect, but it is what I want

I would love to see clothing like this in next gen games. This is the sort of thing that would make an amazing difference because we are so accustomed to mostly static clothing that looks like cardboard. If we had cloth simulation for the entire character, then I think it would have the same sort of visual impact that PBR techniques did with materials and shaders; it would be a visual game changer. At first I thought we won't see this stuff become the norm with next gen because of how cost prohibitive these features are, but the more I think about things like DLSS 2.0, I wouldn't be surprised if we get several more significant performance boost over the next few years through more clever machine learning techniques. I don't think the hardware will be able to do this sort of stuff with horse power alone, but just like how ray tracing becomes very practical with DLSS 2.0, I think the performance cost for many of these advanced graphic features will get reduced significantly. We may be on the verge of a machine learning revolution in game development, and by the time we hit the end of next gen, games might be really crazy.

Mindtaker · Apr 15, 2020

Crossing Eden said:
That level of quality would be super impressive in a SP title, let alone MP.

Even in that case looks a lot more impressive than the pics from FF above (not to mention the magnitude of the complete game).

ResetEraVetVIP · Apr 15, 2020

The Artisan said:

games will look better.

tobes231 · Apr 15, 2020

People expecting render farm level CG in 2020 are heading for a bad wake-up call... Maybe one day, but certainly not for a while.

chris 1515 · Apr 16, 2020

Yogi said:
Think about the graphics we got with a 970 running full blast at around 40fps. It wasn't close to this. Yet, that could run on a 970 in-engine ... because in-engine means nothing anymore.

"ACTUAL GAMEPLAY FOOTAGE" or bust.

There was a comment by the creator of that scene where he said "it's easy to make things like that in UE4 with no game code". I've been trying to find it but I can't right now.

This was it:

No game was ever created for a 970. The games were created for base PS4 and base Xbox One in mind. When crossgen will stop for third party and MS first party we will see much better and probably much better from Sony first party from the get go because Sony is not doing crossgen games.

GhostTrick · Apr 16, 2020

chris 1515 said:
No game was ever created for a 970. The games ae created for base PS4 and base Xbox One im mind. When crossgen will stop for third party and MS first party we will see much better and probably much better from Sony first party from the get go because Sony is not doing crossgen games.

No game was ever created for a 970 with a target of 1080p/30fps*
And yes, we'll see higher fidelity games but also at a lower framerate/resolution than crossgen ones.

Case in point: TLOU 2 and TLOU Remastered. The first one is expected to be 1440p/30fps and the later was 1800p/60fps.

chris 1515 · Apr 16, 2020

GhostTrick said:
No game was ever created for a 970 with a target of 1080p/30fps*
And yes, we'll see higher fidelity games but also at a lower framerate/resolution than crossgen ones.

Case in point: TLOU 2 and TLOU Remastered. The first one is expected to be 1440p/30fps and the later was 1800p/60fps.

And we will see some 60 fps games look better than cross gen games. It is a choice of the developer like with Doom Eternal for example.

GhostTrick · Apr 16, 2020

chris 1515 said:
And we will see some 60 fps games look better than cross gen games. It is a choice of the developer like with Doom Eternal for example.

Indeed, but possibly at lower resolution than cross gen titles would've been. Take Doom Eternal for instance. Say it's getting a patch or new release, running at 4k60. Either it wouldn't push the GPU budget to its maximum, which means it could run at a higher framerate or the next release would run at a lower native resolution if it features better visuals overall.

Point being, on the same platform, your last gen game ran at 2 times the framerate and 56% higher resolution than the current gen one.

dean_rcg · Apr 16, 2020

High expectations only lead to disappointment.

dgrdsv · Apr 16, 2020

Nintendo said:
That's like saying current-gen games look like last-gen games on high-end PC. It doesn't make sense. Games on PC are still designed and developed for the outdated consoles hardware.

Hence why I specifically said RT-enhanced because I'm expecting next gen graphics to be very close to this gen outside of what new GPU features will provide - and from IQ POV this is RT and mesh shaders mostly.
Mesh shaders will be hard to add in a meaningful way to games which will have to run on current gen h/w too so we're down to just RT for the first couple of (crossplatform) years.
The bump from 6TF of XBX (4K target) to 12TF of XSX (4K target) likely won't bring much in terms of graphical fidelity of a frame.
The biggest advantages will be apparent in non-static graphics comparisons, like world traversal (SSDs) and physics and possibly animation (CPU).

Yogi · Apr 16, 2020

Yeah...our budget stayed the same, yeah the graphics don't look all that different but check out these reflections and shadows - and in 4K**!

* 3 months after release
** Not actually 4K

Raytracing will be really worthwhile 2 or 3 gens from next imo, when the systems are much more powerful. I can't wait for games to get past the cross-gen and raytracing phase and go fucking wild with the new systems. That's when next-gen actually starts.

It's probably 3-4 years away.

Pottuvoi · Apr 16, 2020

Yogi said:
With no game code.

Which depends on game code.
For a classic adventure game this would be perfectly usable. (Or Similar games like PSX era final fantasies and resident evils.)

Stacey · Apr 16, 2020

I'm baffled at the expectations of this thread.

2160p (possibly 8k)
>60fps
Ray Tracing
CG quality assets during gameplay
$499

Not even the next generation of pc gpus could manage this.

nelsonroyale · Apr 16, 2020

We heard exactly the same arguments at the beginning of last gen. i.e., Witcher 2 or Crysis 3 on PC was probably above what we were going to get this gen. Now I don't think history goes in circles, more like spirals, but there is still a massive amount of travel in how visuals can improve. Hellblade 2 tech demo for instance, looks as big a step over current gen as we saw this gen compared to the last.

Ravelle · Apr 16, 2020

I wonder if the new generations of consoles also means we'll get less goofy looking rag doll effects when your health reaches zero.

Ciao · Apr 16, 2020

I just want super cool cel shaded games !

The Artisan · Apr 16, 2020

ResetEraVetVIP said:
games will look better.

The top one is from a CGI trailer though. This means next gen will look better than CGI.

Hey Please · Apr 16, 2020

Ciao said:
I just want super cool cel shaded games !

Like a next gen version of this:

AndyD · Apr 16, 2020

Ravelle said:
I wonder if the new generations of consoles also means we'll get less goofy looking rag doll effects when your health reaches zero.

I'd like to see more games with permanence. Dead bodies, trees knocked over, debris everywhere. Let it stay longer than 3 seconds.

And wildlife and movement of nature. Trees swaying, water running, birds, animals, critters going about their day. Essentially like a Rockstar/Witcher world to the next level.

Ravelle · Apr 16, 2020

AndyD said:
I'd like to see more games with permanence. Dead bodies, trees knocked over, debris everywhere. Let it stay longer than 3 seconds.

And wildlife and movement of nature. Trees swaying, water running, birds, animals, critters going about their day. Essentially like a Rockstar/Witcher world to the next level.

Yeah, everyone's about the graphics but I'm more interested in the small details the mechanical part of games, things previous generation didn't get to do.

Dan Thunder · Apr 16, 2020

I do wish people would stop dropping in cut-scenes as though they've slapped down the winning hand in a game of poker.

Even 'real-time in-engine' doesn't mean the same as gameplay. The devs know exactly what's happening in a cut scene and can carefully block it out beforehand so that it can run with extra effects without dragging the frame-rate down before cutting back to gameplay. Look at this comparison of Uncharted 4. Despite the technical brilliance of Naughty Dog's title it's clear to see that the cutscenes are using far more effects and shaders etc than in gameplay.

Next-gen games and models will look phenomenal but using cut-scenes from current and next-gen titles to 'prove' how good they're going to look is just being disingenuous as they're rarely reflective of the gameplay experience.

If they can make the in-game models as good as current in-game cutscenes I'll be happy, especially if they invest that extra effort into the gaming environment. Let's face it, as good as the models for the likes of Drake and Aloy are, outside of photo modes how often do we see consistently or pay attention to more than just the back of their head?

KKRT · Apr 16, 2020

nelsonroyale said:
We heard exactly the same arguments at the beginning of last gen. i.e., Witcher 2 or Crysis 3 on PC was probably above what we were going to get this gen. Now I don't think history goes in circles, more like spirals, but there is still a massive amount of travel in how visuals can improve. Hellblade 2 tech demo for instance, looks as big a step over current gen as we saw this gen compared to the last.

Nah, most people said that Crysis 3 is about what we'll get on current-gen machines and that is kinda what we got.

icecold1983 · Apr 16, 2020

KKRT said:
Nah, most people said that Crysis 3 is about what we'll get on current-gen machines and that is kinda what we got.

Many games look a lot better than crysis 3. Ryse for example, which was available on day 1 of the consoles launch.

Deleted member 46489 · Apr 16, 2020

dgrdsv said:
Hence why I specifically said RT-enhanced because I'm expecting next gen graphics to be very close to this gen outside of what new GPU features will provide - and from IQ POV this is RT and mesh shaders mostly.
Mesh shaders will be hard to add in a meaningful way to games which will have to run on current gen h/w too so we're down to just RT for the first couple of (crossplatform) years.
The bump from 6TF of XBX (4K target) to 12TF of XSX (4K target) likely won't bring much in terms of graphical fidelity of a frame.
The biggest advantages will be apparent in non-static graphics comparisons, like world traversal (SSDs) and physics and possibly animation (CPU).

Lol, where do these takes come from? Sony is already building next-gen exclusive games. And no, they won't look like current gen games. We get opinions like this every gen, and they're proven wrong every gen. Also, your comment about mesh shaders shows you understand very little about the terms you're throwing around.

Deleted member 65994 · Apr 16, 2020

Meanwhile here I am hoping that ps5 boost mode gives me be acceptable performance on Cyberpunk 2077 and elden ring if the next gen version ain't their day one.

CrimsonNocturne · Apr 16, 2020

The primary reason the gameplay looks worse is they lack the high quality self shadowing, and the shader quality reduces a bit. There's also invisible extra "beauty lights" placed to do things like give them that side-lighting and such.

With ray traced shadows, which is one of the least taxing ray tracing features, the self shadowing problem is solved, since by nature, everything gets shadows and self shadows, even little blades of grass and hairs and wires in the distance. As for the shaders, PS5 will be plenty strong to use the better shaders.

KKRT · Apr 16, 2020

icecold1983 said:
Many games look a lot better than crysis 3. Ryse for example, which was available on day 1 of the consoles launch.

I wrote 'about', i'm not saying games do not look better, of course they do, just that the difference between Crysis 3 and any current gen game is not generational.

Deleted member 36708 · Apr 16, 2020

I just want stable gameplay on the switch and it's next model. I'm okay with visuals as a whole.

Hopewell · Apr 16, 2020

Stacey said:
I'm baffled at the expectations of this thread.

2160p (possibly 8k)
>60fps
Ray Tracing
CG quality assets during gameplay
$499

Not even the next generation of pc gpus could manage this.

No one is saying that.
Some games will be 2160p, few small games will be 8k and a lot of games will have some kind of ray tracing. Developers will have to make compromise but all these features will be available, just not at the same time.
But I have no doubt that everyone will be impressed when they'll see the first true next generation games.
And I don't really no why some people are still staying that next-gen games will look current gen games on ultra on PC. It has never been true.

Graphic Fidelity I Expect Next Gen.

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