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Grandia HD Collection done by Sickhead Games (porting house for Celeste, Stardew Valley, Dust, and more), allegedly based off the Sega Saturn release

Leo-Tyrant

Leo-Tyrant

Member
Jan 14, 2019
5,091
San Jose, Costa Rica
dabri said:
I understand the differences were due to technical limitations but on modern hardware that can compensate for those limitations, it shouldn't be an issue to iron things like frame rate, high res textures, or even change the texture used for water to mimic the water effect used on the saturn version while still maintaining the better smoke effects from the psx version.
I'll even go so far as to wager that for pc, if the game doesn't match visually what is seen in the saturn version, that those assets will be modded in before too long.
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You are correct that today, the devs could fix all of the PS1 - Saturn differences and give us the BEST version. However, if you have played both versions you would just KNOW that this HD version is based on the PS1. They did not use (or could not use) Saturn's original-better version of backgrounds, shadows. etc.

Your post is technically correct, modern hardware does not have the same constraints, but the engine they seem to have used as the baseline is the PS1 one and they did NOT update the things that looked-worked better in the Saturn.

1997 constraints are not the same thing as 2019 dev team scope. Their scope seem to be Grandia in HD, and the added scope of "make it the best version by manually fixing all that was missing/different from the Saturn" was not included.

Sample of scope:

  • Grandia HD - Check
  • Grandia with filtered textures - Check
  • Better Parm town ground textures and baked shadows - NO
  • Higher res 2 D backgrounds in battle mode - NO
 
Fisty

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,222
Reads to me like they are looking at the Saturn version and comparing it to the new version, not using the Saturn code. So, emulating the PS1 version but using the Saturn version to check for accuracy
 
Worldshaker

Worldshaker

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,939
Michigan
I want to be hyped for this, but just can't. Please let me be wrong! Everything they've shown has been a complete crapshoot.

My most anticipated release in a long time.
 
Valkerion

Valkerion

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,242
sir_crocodile said:
It has a horrible graphics filter that can't be removed.
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Don't get me wrong though, I don't think the game should just come out in any ol state that they got running or that we should be grateful a company blessed us with an old game at modern prices haha. But there is a lot of vitriol in the handful of threads about this game and it does nothing but turn people off to it both new comers and old fans alike. We have had so little talk in the threads about this release that are actually about the games, but pages of "ITS NOT THE SATURN VERSION!!!!!!"

Seriously, does a meh filter outweigh everything actually good about the game?... I mean it might, who knows how this will be at the end of the week when it drops lol. I'll still be getting it if it runs well and is priced right, but if the hardcore want to stand by the gate reminding me the floor isn't the same as the saturn version, I'm ok with that too because it hasn't stopped for months now.
 
Łazy

Łazy

Member
Nov 1, 2017
5,249
Valkerion said:
Don't get me wrong though, I don't think the game should just come out in any ol state that they got running or that we should be grateful a company blessed us with an old game at modern prices haha. But there is a lot of vitriol in the handful of threads about this game and it does nothing but turn people off to it both new comers and old fans alike. We have had so little talk in the threads about this release that are actually about the games, but pages of "ITS NOT THE SATURN VERSION!!!!!!"

Seriously, does a meh filter outweigh everything actually good about the game?... I mean it might, who knows how this will be at the end of the week when it drops lol. I'll still be getting it if it runs well and is priced right, but if the hardcore want to stand by the gate reminding me the floor isn't the same as the saturn version, I'm ok with that too because it hasn't stopped for months now.
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It's almost like You're not even allowed to like how it looks.
All I see is an improvement over the ps version.
We'll see how the final version runs.

It's gonna be so good to get this game on the Switch, available at all times.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Leo-Tyrant said:
I will buy this for my Switch. I want it.

However, I also have it for both the PS1 and Saturn, and this is CLEARLY based on the PS1 version. Seems like their PR tried to imply that they wanted to base at least some things from the Saturn but...

Sadly, it doesn't seem like they could, or even tried, because:

  • Textured floors in Parm are still incorrect (wrong locations of textures and baked-in shadow)
  • Saturn higher resolution 2D backgrounds in battle mode are still missing (PS1 lower res are being used)

For all intents and purposes it looks just like the PS1 version with higher res, and filtered (XBR?) textures and sprites.
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You've posted a couple of times in this thread that the Saturn backgrounds are "higher resolution 2D" but they aren't. Its actually worse than that: The PSX battle backgrounds are 2D pictures of the 3D geometry backgrounds of the Saturn version.

The saturn version uses 3D geometry for the battle, not high resolution 2D backgrounds.
 
Leo-Tyrant

Leo-Tyrant

Member
Jan 14, 2019
5,091
San Jose, Costa Rica
Krejlooc said:
You've posted a couple of times in this thread that the Saturn backgrounds are "higher resolution 2D" but they aren't. Its actually worse than that: The PSX battle backgrounds are 2D pictures of the 3D geometry backgrounds of the Saturn version.

The saturn version uses 3D geometry for the battle, not high resolution 2D backgrounds.
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I always thought Saturn was using 3D for the BGs, but it seems like the Saturn uses 512x512 2D backgrounds, while on PS1 they're at 256x256.

This is according to TrekkiesUnite, who performed the Saturn English translation modification.
 
sir_crocodile

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,505
Valkerion said:
Don't get me wrong though, I don't think the game should just come out in any ol state that they got running or that we should be grateful a company blessed us with an old game at modern prices haha. But there is a lot of vitriol in the handful of threads about this game and it does nothing but turn people off to it both new comers and old fans alike. We have had so little talk in the threads about this release that are actually about the games, but pages of "ITS NOT THE SATURN VERSION!!!!!!"

Seriously, does a meh filter outweigh everything actually good about the game?... I mean it might, who knows how this will be at the end of the week when it drops lol. I'll still be getting it if it runs well and is priced right, but if the hardcore want to stand by the gate reminding me the floor isn't the same as the saturn version, I'm ok with that too because it hasn't stopped for months now.
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The filter being (as of now) non-removable basically makes this the worst version available imo. It ranks below playing the original on PSX(or SS if you understand Japanese), emulating the original PSX/SS version, or the PSN release. I would direct people to those versions if they are able to play them.

Given this, and that these Grandia remasters have like 5 threads floating around, this information is obviously going to be repeated, as people should be buying this understanding that they are not getting exactly what Gung-ho is advertising. If people still want to buy it, that's fine as they've made an informed purchase. Some won't mind the filter, some will be looking for something to play on the commute etc, and that's fine.
 

Spine Crawler

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,228
i dont care much about grandia but grandia 2 is the best game on dreamcast imho (come at me). too bad grandia extreme is not included although its not that great.
 
noyram23

noyram23

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,372
Seems like a cheap port to be honest, how's the Grandia 2 port? The previews seems bad base on me asking on the other thread
 
sir_crocodile

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,505
noyram23 said:
Seems like a cheap port to be honest, how's the Grandia 2 port? The previews seems bad base on me asking on the other thread
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Apparently the E3 build was a lot better then the PAX one (which was so bad they didn't allow videos of it lol). E3 build certainly looked fine from what little I saw on youtube.
If it ends up on par with the Grandia 2 AE port that's available on Steam/GOG, (which it is based on) it should be pretty good. That version had a few bugs but I think was overall the best version available all things considered, as Grandia 2 AE has Japanese VA option, hard mode which the DC version does not, and this will also add widescreen.

The bugs were:

-it crashes from time to time (by the last patch this became a lot rarer iirc)
-audio desyncs sometimes during cutscenes

If they fix the remaining audio sync issue it would be the best version in all ways. I assume this version won't crash as it's only targeting one HW setup compared to PC. Obviously the best thing to do is wait for reviews to see how it ended up.
 
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noyram23

noyram23

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,372
sir_crocodile said:
Apparently the E3 build was a lot better then the PAX one.
If it ends up on par with the Grandia 2 AE port that's available on Steam/GOG, (which it is based on) it should be pretty good. That version had a few bugs but was overall the best version available all things considered, as Grandia 2 AE has Japanese VA option, widescreen and hard mode which the DC version does not.

The bugs were:

-it crashes from time to time (by the last patch this became a lot rarer iirc)
-audio desyncs sometimes during cutscenes

If they fix the remaining audio sync issue it would be the best version in all ways. I assume this version won't crash as it's only targeting one HW setup compared to PC. Obviously the best thing to do is wait for reviews to see how it ended up
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Thanks you're the one who answered me on the other thread too, fortunate that everything seems better now. Day 1 for me so im hoping it's not be bad since im going with blind faith
 
Tu101uk

Tu101uk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
380
London, UK
Personally I'm just glad they're bringing Grandia 1 to a current-gen platform. Yes I already own the PSX disc and a PSN digital copy too but there is value for me in buying this version of one of my all-time favourite JRPGs.

It's not a Saturn version remaster, which would've been brill, and it has that vaseline filter that people who remaster old classics love for some reason, but to me the remaster looks fine in motion and it'll allow me to play this on the big screen or on the go with my Switch without breaking out my dusty Vita or PS3, which are currently not being used/hooked up.
 
Opa-Pa

Opa-Pa

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,810
What annoys me the most about this is that I instantly suspended my PS1 Grandia playthrough on my Vita last year the moment this got announced, but it turns out it looks far worse than that lol. I really don't care if it's based on the Saturn version or not, but you'd expect it to at least not look worse than the PS1 version...

I'll still be getting this for Grandia 2, but ugh, what a waste.
 
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jett

jett

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Oct 25, 2017
44,657
Total BS, this thing is absolutely not using anything from the Saturn version.

I'm pretty sure Gung-Ho confirmed this already.
 
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MajorBritten

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
1,080
What are the chances of them patching an option for the smoothing filter after release if reactions/reviews are really bad?
 
Koivusilta

Koivusilta

Member
Oct 30, 2017
556
Finland
I mean they already told RPGSite earlier this year it's based on the PSX version while trying to match the Saturn version, whatever that means:

"We want to be clear, the GRANDIA HD Collection are not ports of the original PlayStation games, they are remasters. We are using the original PlayStation code of GRANDIA, but working with the Sega Saturn version to craft the definitive version of this beloved RPG."

"The team is primarily using the Saturn version as a reference point, working to match details and effects from that version of the game."
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It's a shame, I never finished Grandia when I had it on PSX and would've been interested in giving it another shot on Steam, but the hideous filtering pretty much ruins it for me. It's almost as bad as the Chrono Trigger Steam release until it got patched.
 
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Weltall Zero

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Keldroc said:
I know this is pretty much a lost linguistic battle already but things are based on other things, not based off them. "Based off" doesn't even make any sense.
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Thank you for this. As a non-native speaker, I never knew what the difference was or when to use one over the other. "Never use off" is easy to remember. :)

("in", "at" and "on" will still trip me every time until the day I die).
 
Hucast

Hucast

alt account
Banned
Mar 25, 2019
3,598
Valkerion said:
Don't get me wrong though, I don't think the game should just come out in any ol state that they got running or that we should be grateful a company blessed us with an old game at modern prices haha. But there is a lot of vitriol in the handful of threads about this game and it does nothing but turn people off to it both new comers and old fans alike. We have had so little talk in the threads about this release that are actually about the games, but pages of "ITS NOT THE SATURN VERSION!!!!!!"

Seriously, does a meh filter outweigh everything actually good about the game?... I mean it might, who knows how this will be at the end of the week when it drops lol. I'll still be getting it if it runs well and is priced right, but if the hardcore want to stand by the gate reminding me the floor isn't the same as the saturn version, I'm ok with that too because it hasn't stopped for months now.
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I agree with this. So sad how people are acting what are going to be great games and have their negativity surround the product for others who could have been interested. This whole thing should have been a celebration for the most part.
 
Narpas Sword0

Narpas Sword0

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,087
Weltall Zero said:
Thank you for this. As a non-native speaker, I never knew what the difference was or when to use one over the other. "Never use off" is easy to remember. :)

("in", "at" and "on" will still trip me every time until the day I die).
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It is common in English to day "based off of" even if it isn't technically correct. You were fine.

That's why the dude said it was a lost battle. He's just going off topic about his pet peeve which isn't really nice to do to a non native speaker IMO.
 
Fergus Mac Roich

Fergus Mac Roich

Member
Jun 2, 2018
812
Northern Ireland
It's the PS1 version code. They are using the Saturn version as a reference.

I don't understand people jumping to conclusions so soon. Should wait until we see more of the versions. Despite that, both are great games, and I'm glad they are being remastered.

I like the look of the gameplay I've seen from Grandia. The filter looks tidy. Framerate appears solid.
 
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ZeroDS

ZeroDS

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
3,420
It still blows my mind that this isn't coming out in Japan. It's not a problem since the e shop is super easy to work around but a Japanese version would have been nice
 

stizz

Banned
Apr 12, 2019
201
Come to ps n and I will be happy or better yet may be my reason to console dip again.
 
fepeinado

fepeinado

Circumventing a ban with an alt account
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Feb 5, 2019
536
MaLDo said:
That text doesn't say the games are based on the Saturn versions. The text says that they compared the game with the Saturn versions in order to work on the differences that fans are talking about.
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Exactly this. Unless people here have other sources, they are not saying it's a port from the Saturn version
 

Dark1x

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,530
I've played both of these and, yeah, Grandia looks horrible in its current state.

Grandia 2, though, looks much nicer and even features 60fps battles which is nice (the original does not).
 
Joqu

Joqu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,030
The Waffle Kingdom
I don't mind it being the PS1 version's code, I just don't understand why they've put that awful smoothing filter over Grandia 1 and made it mandatory. To claim it looks "HD" now? Surely they realize this turns off a good amount of people?

All I wanted was a version of Grandia 1 on my Switch that looks nice and crisp.
 
Hucast

Hucast

alt account
Banned
Mar 25, 2019
3,598
fepeinado said:
DC and most people on the same sentence. Wow
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DC wasn't a succes but I dont think many people played grandia 2 on the PS2 would they? As someone mentioned it's a lot different than a saturn never localized version so for most people a ps2 port tof grandia 2 would be a downgrade whilst for grandia 1 it wouldnt
 
fepeinado

fepeinado

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536
Hucast said:
DC wasn't a succes but I dont think many people played grandia 2 on the PS2 would they? As someone mentioned it's a lot different than a saturn never localized version so for most people a ps2 port tof grandia 2 would be a downgrade whilst for grandia 1 it wouldnt
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I admit i had posted this before researching. As per it's Wiki page, It was indeed lower on ps2
 
Weltall Zero

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Narpas Sword0 said:
It is common in English to day "based off of" even if it isn't technically correct. You were fine.

That's why the dude said it was a lost battle. He's just going off topic about his pet peeve which isn't really nice to do to a non native speaker IMO.
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I kind of disagree. As a non-native speaker, I welcome all chances to improve my English. How will I get better if people don't correct me?
 
Tamazoid

Tamazoid

Member
Oct 28, 2017
302
Vern said:
Is there any chance at all or a Lunar 1 and 2 re-release? Who has the rights? I'd kill to play them again on Switch.
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The rights are a complete mess from what's been posted over the years, since I believe they're split between Game Arts and wherever the Studio Alex rights went when Game Arts sued them into oblivion.

Victor Ireland was trying for years to get it re-released on PSN (he still owns the Working Designs localisation rights) but nothing has come of it yet and he's seemingly gone incommunicado (though the TG 16 mini includes Cadash and Parasol Star, with their original Working Designs localisation - which hadn't seen a re-release previously, so there's still hope imo)
 

Deleted member 9584

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Played the PSOne version back in the day. I'm very excited to play this game. This remaster "issues" don't really bug me. I just want to play Grandia.
 
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