Gran Turismo’s Future: “4K Resolution is Enough”, But 120 fps or even 240 fps is the Target

Lagspike_exe · Feb 17, 2020

Yamauchi is exactly right. 4K native is plenty and in PS6 or something in the future they can probably push various reconstructions to make it even better. At high FPS, reconstruction can look wonderful.
Aside from that, for PS5, 4K is perfectly adequate and the vast majority of gamers will not see the difference between 4K and 8K on normally sized TVs and even for those that do, the performance hit is way too steep to justify the incremental gain in picture quality.

Giant Panda · Feb 17, 2020

From what I've looked up, GT Sport already reaches 1800p on PS4 Pro, with checkerboarding up to 4k output. If they leave that resolution the same, PS5 would have enough GPU and CPU power left over to bring it up to 120fps if they wanted. They might not have enough power left over to implement dynamic weather and time of day in addition though.

Deleted member 54674 · Feb 17, 2020

AegonSnake said:
No. Get destruction in your game first. Start focusing on more track side detail and 3d trees to give the player a better sense of speed. Invest in better weather effects. Basically, Learn from the wizards at Evolution Studios.

There is a lot to improve before they even think about going up to 120 fps. If he wants to give us a cross gen GT with higher fps then im out.

Thats how I feel about current GT. I was in the beta and lack of sense of speed compared to what I was used to in Driveclub was a let down and races felt very boring as a consequence. Also at each release I keep hoping they implement damage, at least I heard they where experimenting with it, so maybe it will be in there with the next release.

dgrdsv · Feb 17, 2020

120 Hz maybe, 240 on a gamepad and in a racing game would be just as wasteful as going to 8K on a 55" screen.

BadAss2961 · Feb 17, 2020

bionic77 said:
Dumb question.

If the game is rendering at 240 fps is that wasted by playing it on a wireless controller?

Honestly, once you get over about 90fps you stop feeling the difference even on a wired controller.

Only with a mouse do I feel the difference among super high framerates.

Tyaren · Feb 17, 2020

Dennis8K said:
What the hell is this?

Surely he meant 24 fps and 16K resolution?

It is all about those Ks. Gimme 12fps at 32K, no, 6 at 64K!!!

Iwao · Feb 17, 2020

4K, native or not, is a perfectly good standard going into next gen. Frame rate is by far the next most important thing. Especially for a game you know will be VR compatible.

Broken Hope · Feb 17, 2020

Deception said:
Definitely. If you don't already have one with HDMI 2.1 then I recommend you make the jump as the benefits with VRR and 4K/120 will be taken advantage off right away.

As long as you get one that properly supports it, they are allowed to say they are HDMI 2.1 if they support certain features like VRR or eARC.

Pottuvoi · Feb 17, 2020

120fps will be nice.
Motion resolution of 60fps is not nice on sample and hold displays.

ApeEscaper · Feb 17, 2020

Smart man!

Afrikan · Feb 17, 2020

I'm trying to look it up, but can't find anything concrete. LG C9 with it's hdmi 2.1 ports, support 4k 120fps yes... but HDMI 2.0 supported 1080p at 240fps... so you would think HDMI 2.1 would support that, and higher. So maybe the C9 can support 1440p at 240fps? If not higher, maybe after an update?

Dakkon · Feb 17, 2020

Ombala said:
How about 120hz and 120 fps?

They scale linearly so it's 8-16ms.

e:
If you want to find any combination out, it's easy:

Step 1) Do 1000/Hz of monitor. This is your first number as the monitor is the ultimate gatekeeper here.

Step 2) Do 1000/FPS of the game. Add this value to the Step 1 value for the 2nd number.

e.g.

60 Hz monitor, 480 FPS:

1000/60 = 16.6

1000/480 = 2.08

So your answer is 16.6-18.68ms.

While 480 & 480 would be 2.08-4.16ms.

CamberGreber · Feb 17, 2020

Outside of VR 4k is enough.

Rizific · Feb 17, 2020

thank fucking GOD somebody gets it. except good luck hitting 120fps at 4k even on next gen console hardware.

EvilBoris · Feb 17, 2020

4K resolution is enough until Sony ask them to make 8K games to sell 8K TVs

janusff · Feb 17, 2020

Rizific said:
thank fucking GOD somebody gets it. except good luck hitting 120fps at 4k even on next gen console hardware.

the game is 1800p 60fps on ps4 pro now. i think they could hit that easy with ps5

Dennis8K · Feb 17, 2020

EvilBoris said:
4K resolution is enough until Sony ask them to make 8K games to sell 8K TVs

Praise Sony!

tr1b0re · Feb 17, 2020

[furrows brow while reading on 1080p 60hz TV from 2012]

behOemoth · Feb 17, 2020

Vylder said:
How much FPS is real life exactly?

Wouldn't 240 FPS be close to real life?

Eyes don't work in framerates. We have two kind of cells to capture light. Different zones react slightly different to motion, flashes and exposition times. Plus our nerves are rather slow so we gain the skill to foresee how things move.
However you can build a Setup With an image in such a way that you can see the difference between 120 hz and 240 hz.

Kerotan · Feb 17, 2020

240fps on the ps6 or ps6 Pro please. I'll take hdmi 2.1 to hit 120fps on the ps5 however!

Ombala · Feb 17, 2020

Dakkon said:
They scale linearly so it's 8-16ms.

e:
If you want to find any combination out, it's easy:

Step 1) Do 1000/Hz of monitor. This is your first number as the monitor is the ultimate gatekeeper here.

Step 2) Do 1000/FPS of the game. Add this value to the Step 1 value for the 2nd number.

e.g.

60 Hz monitor, 480 FPS:

1000/60 = 16.6

1000/480 = 2.08

So your answer is 16.6-18.68ms.

While 480 & 480 would be 2.08-4.16ms.

Thanks for the explanation!

chromatic9 · Feb 17, 2020

I hope he's talking about native 2160p or at least using a new reconstruction. GT Sport's "4K" 1800p checkerboard is not very good.

60fps option should be 2160p, even if the PS5 is as powerful. As nice as GT Sport is the DOF and other effects could be improved as well and I really hope they have full screen replays instead of letterboxing a 16x9 image.

Afrikan · Feb 17, 2020

EvilBoris said:
4K resolution is enough until Sony ask them to make 8K games to sell 8K TVs

That used to be the case right? Use their PlayStations to help sell their other hardware. (TVs, Sound systems, etc.)

But if just seems it has been different for a while now. With the PS4 Pro not supporting UHD BluRay movies.... with most of their 2020 TVs not supporting HDMI 2.1.

Empyrean Cocytus · Feb 17, 2020

I feel like 8k could add a lot to the game, maybe not with cars but with the design of the tracks. I want to see each individual blade of grass.

EvilBoris · Feb 17, 2020

Dennis8K said:
Praise Sony!

Our lord and saviours

Afrikan said:
That used to be the case right? Use their PlayStations to help sell their other hardware. (TVs, Sound systems, etc.)

But if just seems it has been different for a while now. With the PS4 Pro not supporting UHD BluRay movies.... with most of their 2020 TVs not supporting HDMI 2.1.

The different groups talk about leveraging each other all the time, I suspect the lack of UHD is more down to the timing and the price of the PS4 Pro, more than anything.

El-Pistolero · Feb 17, 2020

AegonSnake said:
No. Get destruction in your game first. Start focusing on more track side detail and 3d trees to give the player a better sense of speed. Invest in better weather effects. Basically, Learn from the wizards at Evolution Studios.

There is a lot to improve before they even think about going up to 120 fps. If he wants to give us a cross gen GT with higher fps then im out.

Those wizards had a game that ran at half the framerate.

AegonSnake · Feb 17, 2020

El-Pistolero said:
Those wizards had a game that ran at half the framerate.

we are talking next gen. shouldnt be that hard to run games at 60 fps with all those driveclub effects thanks to the massive increase in cpu power.

GarthLordOfTheSith · Feb 17, 2020

Hopefully we get a new entry like 5 or 6, and not a new one like Sport.

8byte · Feb 17, 2020

I'd prefer them to stick to 120fps, and use that extra juice on weather effects & track condition simulations.

Powerofthecloud · Feb 17, 2020

Heck the amount of clarity 1440p @120 gives with movement vs 4k @60 is huge. I was messing around with the division 2and destiny 2 this weekend comparing both of these display options and the lower res with higher frame rate was the CLEAR winner.

Powerofthecloud · Feb 17, 2020

... duplicate

Sakuyahime · Feb 17, 2020

That's impressive, 4K at 120FPS would be incredible to see but I doubt it'll happen right now.

El-Pistolero · Feb 17, 2020

AegonSnake said:
we are talking next gen. shouldnt be that hard to run games at 60 fps with all those driveclub effects thanks to the massive increase in cpu power.

It is a choice on where to best allocate resources. If they go with Ray tracing, 4K, damage simulation...then, no, it would be hard to add realistic weather conditions on top of it. I still expect them to reach a reasonable trade off...

PLASTICA-MAN · Feb 18, 2020

Release the TVS that can run 4K games at 240 FPS with HDR12/Dolby Vision at 10000 nits first then we can talk.

eso76 · Feb 18, 2020

I see they have plans for Gran Turismo 1 BC on PS5.

I definitely agree on 4k being enough for the foreseeable future though.

MajesticSoup · Feb 18, 2020

I love all this talk of high framerate.
It bodes well for vr...

nekkid · Feb 18, 2020

Is 240 really necessary for console gaming?

Or is this a hint that GT will be coming to PC?

Deleted member 4247 · Feb 18, 2020

benzy said:
Imagine being in an SRT Tomahawk at these framerates.

What the fuck. 500 km/h?! Is that a real car? I know GT sometimes has concept cars and such, but normally they don't have pure fantasy stuff right?

LazyLain · Feb 18, 2020

RoadHazard said:
What the fuck. 500 km/h?! Is that a real car? I know GT sometimes has concept cars and such, but normally they don't have pure fantasy stuff right?

The Vision GT cars are fantasy concept cars, some of 'em more grounded in reality than others...

MysticGon · Feb 18, 2020

LewieP said:
This is kinda strange PR for the build up to a new generation if I'm honest. Not the 240fps thing, but downplaying the upcoming generational leap.

Makes sense for Kaz and his team methinks. The car models are just ridiculous. The lighting and HDR are too. GT will benefit from RTX sure but cars look nearly real as is. Only thing we'll probably see is some volumetric tire smoke and prettier vistas.

Amauri14 · Feb 18, 2020

Good. The more frames, the better the game plays. Also, that fluidity just looks so nice. I guess I will be connecting my PS5 to my 144 Hz monitor when it releases.

Älg said:
Increasing frame rate isn't only about reducing latency, but also the fluency of motion. The real question is if the difference between say 120 and 240 Hz is actually worth it, or even noticeable in the first place.

It actually it is. Here are two videos from LTT testing that:

Angst72 · Feb 18, 2020

MysticGon said:
Makes sense for Kaz and his team methinks. The car models are just ridiculous. The lighting and HDR are too. GT will benefit from RTX sure but cars look nearly real as is. Only thing we'll probably see is some volumetric tire smoke and prettier vistas.

Dynamic time of day should be much easier to implement with RTX. And that's one thing GT absolutely needs to improve on.

Animus · Feb 18, 2020

Personally I would prefer more eyecandy at 60fps tbh.

LetalisAmare · Feb 18, 2020

Animus said:
Personally I would prefer more eyecandy at 60fps tbh.

Same.

Megawarrior · Feb 18, 2020

I'll take 1080p at 240fps please and thank you.

tzare · Feb 18, 2020

Interesting, some people always ask for better framerate and now it doesn't seem to be important anymore?

Anyway, for me 60fps is great, so better visuals are also welcome, but i really want the full game to be playable on my PSVR, so i guess improved fps , beyond the standard 60 almost guarantees that.

But i also hope they allow people to choose, performance, Fidelity, etc...

Dreams-Visions · Feb 18, 2020

ActWan said:
Good to know their goals are in the right place.

.

tzare said:
Interesting, some people always ask for better framerate and now it doesn't seem to be important anymore?

What does that even mean? This entire thread is about how important it is set against a backdrop of console players struggling to comprehend framerates above 60fps and how it affects gaming.

The sooner we can move past 60fps (lol 30), the better for gaming in general.

Multiverse Moo · Feb 18, 2020

I'm surprised at some of the people thinking 8K is going to need to be native considering all the AI powered upscaling and rendering techniques we are already seeing on Pro / X1X and modern NVIDIA / AMD GPUs. 4K is more than enough to get a crystal clear 8K image onto a supported screen.

nekkid said:
Is 240 really necessary for console gaming?

Or is this a hint that GT will be coming to PC?

PS4 has`120fps games for PSVR, mainly from 60 or 90fps+ reprojection (new versions of previous frame positioned relative to your head movement) but also a few natively.

However, Beat Saber on some of the crazier songs (especially custom ones) actually needs even better FPS and tracking speed so you can see / hit everything on time.

Similarly, if you were to play GT7 in VR 120 or 240 FPS would be incredibly useful for being able to judge rapidly changing distances that we normally can't at lower FPS.

So while not all games will need it, there are definitely cases in which this can definitely be substantial to the experience and with eye tracking, only certain portions of where you are looking will need to be rendered at full quality, while the rest can be very sparse (like 10% of the actual pixels) and filled in by the system using AI.

Radium217 · Feb 18, 2020

Honestly they could do sub 4k with checkerboard 120fps and that would be amazing. I know 240 is great but 120 at an indistiguishable checkerboard with the graphics they're going to be pushing, 0 loading and no pop in is going to look phenomenal.

chris 1515 · Feb 18, 2020

120 fps doesn't mean the game will be 4k 120 fps. I suppose he game will be 4k 60 fps and they prepare a mode 1440p 120 fps perfect for VR and PSVR 2.

Gran Turismo’s Future: “4K Resolution is Enough”, But 120 fps or even 240 fps is the Target

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