Lives are more important than the economy, but please. What comes economically after this is not going to "rule"
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Govenor Newsom: California now under shelter in place order
- Thread starter chapel
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Lives are more important than the economy, but please. What comes economically after this is not going to "rule"
Which is hard to do because you have to take care of kids while working too.
It's ridiculous stuff like this is being put in place without figuring out a way to compensate people who lose their jobs or can't work from home. How are you supposed to shelter at home if you get kicked out of your home and are on the streets?
Counterpoint: universal healthcare and general concern for the dignity of human life actually do rule.
I agree. At least Governor Cuomo froze payments for credit cards and such.
Why tf do I still gotta pay mine?
Nope. Not doing this. I don't have the emotional energy left to engage with people downplaying the seriousness of this pandemic. If we don't handle this aggressively and proactively, it's possible we lose more Americans in a year than every American lost in every war this country has ever fought, twice over. I haven't really spent much time on Era as of late and I don't know how informed this board is keeping itself, so if some of y'all still not aware of the scope of what we're facing, I'm sorry.
Nothing will ruin an economy more than the bodies needed to power it being dead.
Edit: Please don't waste time replying to me unless you want to make a point for observers. I've dismissed you.
I think our government (At least Cali's anyway) knows that, so if worst comes to worst, they'll reopen things, and then close them again when needed.
It really is a shitty thing to do, but this yo-yoing only has to be done until a vaccine is created and deemed safe. Then, it'll be treated like the flu once people are vaccinated.
We're basically just trying to make sure hospitals aren't overburdened until the vaccine is there, and they'll let businesses open up before saying "Meh, fuck it, everyone riot, we're not opening anything".
Holy shit, I'm not downplaying the seriousness of this. This is serious and we need to do this, but I just can't see them keeping everyone in shelter in place across the country for 12 to 18 months. At some point they're going to have to weigh how that's impacting everyone.
Running low on groceries. Gonna go tomorrow stock up on that and hit a Bevmo if they're open lol. Have enough of the hard stuff not enough beer. Pretty crazy times. Feeling luck as my job in logistics for a food company is pretty much virus proof.
At some point the lines will cross and the millions of Americans dying from poverty are more than the millions of Americans potentially dying from Covid-19. They definitely need to figure out something long terms ASAP. UBI, freeze rent/mortgages/CC bills/taxes/insurance, etc... are the only way to not kill millions of people with an extended lockdown.
If you need can soup you could always stock up on Beefy Mushroom. The grocery store I went today had a ton of that along with French Onion.
Yes, this is what I'm talking about. I'm glad I'm not being crazy about the harsh reality of what may have to happen if things aren't resolved sooner rather than later.
You're not the only one. We need to contain the virus and keep hospitals from being overrun and millions dying, but we also need to keep in mind what the consequences of all this may be before we do it and plan it out before just shutting everything down and cleaning up the mess later. This could make the great depression seem like child's play if it's extended for 18 months.
How do you enforce it, how do you get food to people, how do you monitor the streets, how do you make sure the subways are closed to all people, how do you stop the significant portion of the 20 million people from fleeing the metro area effectively spreading the virus even more.
There are many more issues along those lines not even considering the grave economic effects which sorry to say does matter in this discussion because people are going to die either way. There are no easy choices.
Okay, how long you going to shut everything down? 2 weeks, 3 weeks? 6 months? I understand how serious this is and have been following this since before the first case in America. But everyone saying oh we have to completely shut everything down don't understand the repercussions of it. Without a stimulus plan in place, a lot of people are not going to be able to pay for things. You expect all the people with that work minimum wages and what not to be able to survive? The soonest check to come is weeks away. The unemployment rate has already skyrocket.
Evictions related to the emergency are not enforceable in the state of California. As well, public housing deadlines are relaxed, and the state is trying to limit or slow foreclosures.
The state has also requested utility providers not shut off service during the emergency (and most, if not all, have complied).
This was all done at the beginning of March.
I'll be doing the same. It's gonna be even more of a shitshow now. I feel like I'm gonna end up eating packets of soy sauce and sweeteners for the whole week since none of the real food is gonna be around.
This is basically how I assume society will function until a vaccine is developed and distributed. On-and-off periods of lockdown and limited travel. And this could go on for 12-18 months.
Lol the store we deliver to in Susanville the ladies are always nice as hell but sound like they're from Alabama hahahaha. I wouldn't be too worried catching it up there.
I don't understand how an on/off lockdown could work. Like lockdown is off tomorrow, and then everyone is suddenly gonna go out to malls shopping and spending money and fixing the economy? Go to the movies, go to disneyland, etc...
aka, spend their money to stimulate the economy and help businesses survive?
If the virus is still out there, enough to have to shut everything down again, I think if they open the lockdown, everyone is still going to be saving every penny they have to get through the next lockdown. Essentially businesses/economy is gone until the lockdowns are really over.
I think the best middleground is definitely going to be lockdowns + support systems, but the support systems aren't there. I was talking to someone and they were saying "well, if renters don't pay rent and can't be evicted, then landlords, especially single home owners renting, can't pay their mortgages and then either a) those landlords are foreclosed on and lose the house by the banks or states (property taxes, etc...), or b) you freeze mortgages
...and then if you freeze mortgages, suddenly all of the banks crash because their income from mortgages is gone and we're back in 2008 where all the banks are dead and need bail outs."
I don't know the solution. There doesn't seem to be a good solution other than everyone stay home and the government give you money, food and shelter and everything will be ok for everyone, which doesn't seem realistic.
Let's say Washington state does this, would I still be able to move while this is in place?
My lease is up at my current place and I'm scheduled to move on 4/6. I have 2 movers booked. I've had a couple friends tell me they'll help me move if I can't get movers but it's still 3 people total, in close proximity of each other for a few hours.
Not trying to derail, just trying to plan how I'm supposed to do this.
Edit: Seattle area, for reference.
My lease is up at my current place and I'm scheduled to move on 4/6. I have 2 movers booked. I've had a couple friends tell me they'll help me move if I can't get movers but it's still 3 people total, in close proximity of each other for a few hours.
Not trying to derail, just trying to plan how I'm supposed to do this.
Edit: Seattle area, for reference.
You do what you have to do. You aren't throwing a house warming party or anything.
I would think so, especially because the month-to-month rate at my current place is insane (like 4x normal monthly rent). If I had to pay double rent (rent at each place) at normal rates, I could probably get by doing that for a little while but it wouldn't be easy.
Definitely not. The closest thing to it is a coworker that lives in the same building may come by and we might cook a meal together. We've both been WFH for the last 2.5 weeks, and that's a big maybe as it is.
Either way, thanks for the reassurance y'all. :)
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Washoe County has had 12 infections, that's only 80 miles away. The amount of people who go back and fourth to Reno daily is huge, seeing as its the closest major town. We also have two major prisons here with people coming all over the state for visits.
I've been operating under the assumption that it's already here.
I'm not taking any chances and I'm taking this thing seriously, even though a lot of the morons who live here aren't.
You know what's really bad for the economy?
Millions of dead people.
We definitely need some form of economic relief and stimulus, but the gravity of the situation means having to lock down now and figuring out the rest afterward.
Which I hope is soon, because there are a lot of people newly struggling to get by (myself included).
Millions of dead people.
We definitely need some form of economic relief and stimulus, but the gravity of the situation means having to lock down now and figuring out the rest afterward.
Which I hope is soon, because there are a lot of people newly struggling to get by (myself included).
Under a shelter in place (is Seattle under one though?), even that shouldn't be happening. No contact with anyone outside your household unless absolutely essential and even then keeping a distance of 6 ft where at all possible.
That being said will the authorities notice if you do it? Likely not.
Moving: essential. Friend(s) over for dinner? Not essential.
i recently saw two police cars pull up and run into a nail salon that was still open.
see something, say something, and it gets shut down
For sure. Neither of us were 100% on it anyway and we'll have plenty of time later.
Seattle isn't under a shelter in place yet but I'd be surprised if we weren't by 4/6.
no. Betterstay sane and stay healthy with exercise, just stay 6 ft Away from ppl. My dad wears a mask and gloves when he takes his walks, he's above 70, but ppl tend to be respectful and keep to the other side of the street anyway
Whats the long term plan here?
Everything I have seen says a vaccine is atleast a year away so what will happen over the next month or so? Majority of jobs out there are NOT "essential" businesses so what is going to happen when more continue to close doors and lay off workers?
I feel like we are closer to a purge and complete chaos when savings start drying up to pay bills and put food on the table.
Everything I have seen says a vaccine is atleast a year away so what will happen over the next month or so? Majority of jobs out there are NOT "essential" businesses so what is going to happen when more continue to close doors and lay off workers?
I feel like we are closer to a purge and complete chaos when savings start drying up to pay bills and put food on the table.
Give it another 2-4 weeks. Businesses will have to open back up or many will and just incur the penalties. The stimulus is not going to be enough and people are gonna have to work. Either the economy tanks or the healthcare system tanks. People are going to die regardless of the choice. It's now triage on the battlefield. Our society is not setup for what's needed, maybe, just maybe we'll learn from this moving forward.
Most likely they'll still be open. Grocery stores and deliveries are considered essential, Amazon delivering stuff means less people are out together at stores.
Then you have not been paying attention.
The Wuhan lockdown lasted nearly 2 months and the surrounding areas are just now coming out of it. Some parts of Italy went on lockdown nearly a month ago, the rest of the country followed weeks later, and now theyre saying the initial deadline for it of April 3rd will likely have to be extended for it cause the death rate is still spiking.
Look at the rate of infections in countries that were proactive vs the ones that were slow to act.
Now look at the death chart:
Coronavirus tracker: the latest figures as countries fight the Covid-19 resurgence | Free to read
The FT analyses the scale of outbreaks and tracks the vaccine rollouts around the world
www.ft.com
We're diverging from the S Korea rate and surpassing the Italian rate, what we've been doing clearly isnt enough to slow this down.... More drastic measures are needed if we want to avoid our hospitals getting overrun for a prolonged period like they are in Italy. Don't be surprised when the rest of the nation follows our lead next week.
Newsom signed an EO granting local municipalities the power to put an eviction moratorium in their cities last weekend after San Francisco had already announced something and L.A. was moving ahead with their own plan.
SF eviction Moratorium: https://sfmayor.org/article/mayor-l...oratorium-evictions-related-covid-19-pandemic
SF small/medium businesses eviction moratorium: https://sfmayor.org/article/mayor-l...um-commercial-evictions-small-and-medium-size
SF suspension of Utility disconnections: https://sfmayor.org/article/san-fra...toffs-waive-penalties-and-interest-delinquent
LA moratorium should have a final version drafted by the city attorney next week:
Now that the shelter in place order is statewide though instead of cities enacting it just for themselves I imagine the state government will have to step in an do a statewide eviction moratorium very soon and likely a rent moratorium as well if theyre planning this to be a month+ lockdown like its turning out to be in other places.
They'll still likely have to pay their mortgage at the end of the day. Just be aware that the city (& likely the state by now too) is drafting their own ordinance so it wont be left up to landlords discretion to be flexible, they'll have to do it and notify their tenants of their rights. Also both the SF ordinance & the draft LA Ordinance have structured the payments for missed rent over long periods of time to avoid tenants getting evicted post emergency due to a huge rent bill.
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My job and employers have no idea either. I'm still working tomorrow but who the hell knows about next week. Everything's so up in the air.
Most likely they'll still be open. Grocery stores and deliveries are considered essential, Amazon delivering stuff means less people are out together at stores.
Then you have not been paying attention.
The Wuhan lockdown lasted nearly 2 months and the surrounding areas are just now coming out of it. Some parts of Italy went on lockdown nearly a month ago, the rest of the country followed weeks later, and now theyre saying the initial deadline for it of April 3rd will likely have to be extended for it cause the death rate is still spiking.
Look at the rate of infections in countries that were proactive vs the ones that were slow to act.
Now look at the death chart:
Coronavirus tracker: the latest figures as countries fight the Covid-19 resurgence | Free to read
The FT analyses the scale of outbreaks and tracks the vaccine rollouts around the world
We're diverging from the S Korea rate and surpassing the Italian rate, what we've been doing clearly isnt enough to slow this down.... More drastic measures are needed if we want to avoid our hospitals getting overrun for a prolonged period like they are in Italy. Don't be surprised when the rest of the nation follows our lead next week.
Newsom signed an EO granting local municipalities the power to put an eviction moratorium in their cities last weekend after San Francisco had already announced something and L.A. was moving ahead with their own plan.
SF eviction Moratorium: https://sfmayor.org/article/mayor-l...oratorium-evictions-related-covid-19-pandemic
SF small/medium businesses eviction moratorium: https://sfmayor.org/article/mayor-l...um-commercial-evictions-small-and-medium-size
SF suspension of Utility disconnections: https://sfmayor.org/article/san-fra...toffs-waive-penalties-and-interest-delinquent
LA moratorium should have a final version drafted by the city attorney next week:
Now that the shelter in place order is statewide though instead of cities enacting it just for themselves I imagine the state government will have to step in an do a statewide eviction moratorium very soon and likely a rent moratorium as well if theyre planning this to be a month+ lockdown like its turning out to be in other places.
They'll still likely have to pay their mortgage at the end of the day. Just be aware that the city (& likely the state by now too) is drafting their own ordinance so it wont be left up to landlords discretion to be flexible, they'll have to do it and notify their tenants of their rights. Also both the SF ordinance & the draft LA Ordinance have structured the payments for missed rent over long periods of time to avoid tenants getting evicted post emergency due to a huge rent bill.
I really hope whatever is voted on, the final decision comes soon because it's frightening to go into this whole thing without a plan.
This is crazy.
I hope after this, that a lot of changes happen to our social welfare programs, our jobs regulations, maybe limit the number of jobs to housing to finally regulate housing prices.
Eg, if Google wants to provide 20K jobs, they have to provide 20K homes + 5-10K affordable housing units (1/4-1/2 of the jobs number) and local municipalities cannot have one without the other.
They must also be able to build those homes by the time that they plan to finish their new offices. I think that would slap.
I hope after this, that a lot of changes happen to our social welfare programs, our jobs regulations, maybe limit the number of jobs to housing to finally regulate housing prices.
Eg, if Google wants to provide 20K jobs, they have to provide 20K homes + 5-10K affordable housing units (1/4-1/2 of the jobs number) and local municipalities cannot have one without the other.
They must also be able to build those homes by the time that they plan to finish their new offices. I think that would slap.
