Gordon Ramsay planning to open authentic Asian restaurant. People think it's cuisine appropriation.

[cheesekao]

That's a pretty reductionist version of my argument. Authenticity isn't a binary category -- that is to say things can be more or less authentic. If somebody decides they are going to do too many things then they lose enough on that gradient for each that I would argue the food becomes shit. Like I said above though, maybe I'm just a snob. A sushi chef that also does Pad Thai, Mapo Tofu, Pho, and Ramen is less likely to be able to do each well. At what point does that authenticity become lost? Difficult to say exactly but I think we can all agree that at some point the chef doesn't know enough or isn't skilled enough.

Click to shrink...

I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. I can definitely agree with you if you're talking about those cheap/affordable joints that serve a shitload of different kinds of food but the upper mid-tier restaurants I frequent tend to do a pretty good job if only because their menus are more restrained.

 

[Stinkles]

Tokyo has a better pizza scene than almost anywhere else in the world

Click to shrink...

PHEEEW here we go.

(It doesn't btw even though you can get amazing pizza there. You cannot casually or reliably do so. You have to hunt and research. Next we're gonna hear about how authentic Junkadelic's margaritas are or how exquisite Goemon Spaghetti is.)

 

[Calm Waterfall]

Cultural appropriation is not a thing.

Anytime anyone used google maps and gps, chinese tech is being appropriate as compass was invented by the chinese..

/S

Also, are people really getting 'faux outraged' over this? I am ethnic chinese and i don't see what's wrong with it.

There are plenty of ethnic chinese chef that opens japanese ramen restaurant, sushi bar and italian restaurant btw here in singapore. Are you telling me only italian can open a pizza & spaghetti joint and only japanese can open a sushi bar?

what is wrong with people nowadays?

Click to shrink...

The funny part is that most of the outrage is usually driven by rich white college students.

 

[Zen]

Cultural appropriation is not a thing.

Click to shrink...

HAHA this forum

 

[Deleted member 2761]

Oh my fucking god there are actual Asians living in Western countries expressing their opinions shut the hell up about faux white outrage this is ridiculous.

 

[MM300]

I hate fake woke people getting mad at shit like this yet are completely silent on real problems like Puerto Rico and Yemen.

Click to shrink...

The fuck is this? This is an open forum, with hundreds of different topics. Anything within reason can be posted. You want to talk about Puerto Rico and Yemen? Then go bump an existing one, or create one. Take your complaints elsewhere.

 

[uzipukki]

I'm sure all of the angry tweeters only cook cuisines native to their region/country.

 

[Pet]

I'm sure all of the angry tweeters only cook cuisines native to their region/country.

Click to shrink...

I doubt the tweeters are attempting to advertise their cooking as authentic representations of exotic cuisines.

Also, I really hope that's you or someone famous in your avatar.

 

[Khanimus]

I'm sure all of the angry tweeters only cook cuisines native to their region/country.

Click to shrink...

I'm sure those angry tweeters aren't marketing 'authentic' cuisines of marginalized cultures under their branding and making money off of it. But sure, compare this to some couple making pad thai at home for themselves as if that's totally the same thing.

 

[27 Burritos]

Somebody once told me about how there are certain Asian restaurants in San Francisco that use ingredients that aren't fully legal in the US. Has anyone heard anything like that?

 

[FreezerGeezer]

A lot of crazy people knockin' about and making the news these days.

 

[Deleted member 1589]

Cultural appropriation is not a thing.

The funny part is that most of the outrage is usually driven by rich white college students.

Click to shrink...

oh it's definitely a thing, just not close to what's being outraged most of the time on the internet.

 

[uzipukki]

I doubt the tweeters are attempting to advertise their cooking as authentic representations of exotic cuisines.

Also, I really hope that's you or someone famous in your avatar.

Click to shrink...

I fail to see how the cuisines in Gordon Ramsays restaurant aren't authentic? Granted, I haven't been to said restaurant since it hasn't opened... From what I have gathered Ramsay does indeed make ethnic dishes that are "authentic", whatever that even means.

And I have no idea what my avatar has to do with anything.

 

[Stinkles]

Somebody once told me about how there are certain Asian restaurants in San Francisco that use ingredients that aren't fully legal in the US. Has anyone heard anything like that?

Click to shrink...

Was it a beautiful girl who looked exactly like this?

 

[Rare Opiums]

The discussion around cooking and the spirit of cooking as a culture is a subject that is still pretty early in becoming a full formed concept.

Like, what makes it "authentic"? Is it the technique? The ingredients? The people who make it? The location it's made? All of the above? Some of the above? It's complicated. Ramsey likely views cooking as a vacuum that can be done by anyone and separates it in that regard from the original culture. Not that the original culture is forgotten - but not restricting who can make it and who can learn from it.

Also after reading the article, nothing says he isn't hiring chefs from the original culture. I dunno why people are making that assumption.

Click to shrink...

The taste. It's not that complicated.

 

[27 Burritos]

Was it a beautiful girl who looked exactly like this?

Click to shrink...

Black blood of the Earth!

 

[andymcc]

PHEEEW here we go.

(It doesn't btw even though you can get amazing pizza there. You cannot casually or reliably do so. You have to hunt and research. Next we're gonna hear about how authentic Junkadelic's margaritas are or how exquisite Goemon Spaghetti is.)

Click to shrink...

Well, it's better than anything outside of Italy or the US ;)

 

[FaceHugger]

I'm surprised it took him this long to branch out to something new. The menus on most of his US places are painfully similar, just different tiers: pub/burgers, steak, or haute cuisine.

 

[Shadownet]

It's really easy to say this if you don't consider the racism in the culinary world overall, or consider how some product of your culture could be valuable. Sharing is all cool and enjoyable until white men not only profit from something that's not theirs, but make big names for themselves while locking those other people out of the upper echelon of a career as a chef.

Click to shrink...

You really think this is what happening here?

 

[MrMephistoX]

Sam Gabriel valley in SoCal could kick this restaurants ass any day. Unless he's hiring staff from fine dining establishments from Chengdu to Tokyo it's going to be a glorified PF Chang's.

 

[Crocks]

As long as Ramsay is respecting the original cuisine and dishes, which he seems to be doing, what exactly is the problem here?

Click to shrink...

Why is even that an important factor? If he makes shitty food, people won't go there. If he makes inauthentic food that people nontheless like then what's the problem?

 

[thermopyle]

It's always amazing to see how fucked some of you "progressives" on this forum get when anything that might be considered problematic to asians gets posted. That we still have dumbasses on this very page insinuating it's just a bunch of white sjw's getting outraged on behalf of asians when you have multiple asian users saying otherwise is incredible.

 

[Good Kid mAAd Poster]

I'm sure those angry tweeters aren't marketing 'authentic' cuisines of marginalized cultures under their branding and making money off of it. But sure, compare this to some couple making pad thai at home for themselves as if that's totally the same thing.

Click to shrink...

I disagree, he's exposing their cuisine to more people therefore this is beneficial for them.

If you were truly passionate about cuisine and food, you'd want it to be shared with as many people as possible.

 

[gully state]

I disagree, he's exposing their cuisine to more people therefore this is beneficial for them.

If you were truly passionate about cuisine and food, you'd want it to be shared with as many people as possible.

Click to shrink...

If you were truly passionate about authentic cuisine and food, you'd seek out the source.

 

[Xiaomi]

Honestly, living in Asia, the sooner people stop obsessing about how authentic their food is, the sooner people will start to find better things to eat.

It's not mystical secrets, it's food. They have the ingredients that are fresh in this part of the world and they make the dishes they grew up with. Some of it is bad and some of it is good. I can point out several authentic beef noodle and rouzaofan restaurants near my house that make food I could never cook as well, and conversely, several authentic restaurants that are shitty.

 

[Untzillatx]

What is "Asian food" anyway? Will the restaurant serve Uzbek or Iranian or Turkmen dishes? That's Asia too.

 

[Keyouta]

Canadian dude in Calgary runs an amazing Japanese restaurant. Don't see why food by a certain culture can only be made by people from that area. Just people complaining for the sake of it.

 

[Ganransu]

On topic of the label "Asian cuisine": here in Macau and Hong Kong, we would simply say "western cuisine" when referring to anything we considered not-Asian. I believe Japanese have a similar system, but having self taught Japanese and mostly reading kanji as if they're Chinese, I don't know the romaji for Japanese cuisine and western cuisine in their language.

On "authentic", I personally only treat the term as a marketing word, I doubt anyone is going to eat his food and then go and shit on the originals for being fakes. Plenty of steakhouses and pizza place here in Macau, opened by Chinese, call themselves authentic.

I personally am not too miffed about his restaurant's choice of cuisine, I don't see what harm that can be done. People are going to claim whichever flavours they like as the real taste, and while annoying as it may be, it's not that big a deal, is it?

 

[Deleted member 52988]

There's nothing to stop any other Asian run eatery from marketing their food as "authentic".

Cut this bullshit about big bad Gordon using it as a cudgel to beat down smaller restaurants.

 

[Deleted member 10612]

I wouldn't give a shit if a German chef would cook Thai food as long as it's good. The hell is wrong with people.

 

[Theodran]

On topic of the label "Asian cuisine": here in Macau and Hong Kong, we would simply say "western cuisine" when referring to anything we considered not-Asian. I believe Japanese have a similar system, but having self taught Japanese and mostly reading kanji as if they're Chinese, I don't know the romaji for Japanese cuisine and western cuisine in their language.

Click to shrink...

In Japan it's called 洋食 (yōshoku) and encompasses the entirety of western cuisine, but they often differentiate Italian and French cuisine from the rest. Japanese cuisine is called 和食 (washoku). For Chinese and Korean food, they usually specify "Chinese cuisine" and "Korean cuisine," but in my experience, for the rest of Asia, although calling out specific nations is common (Thai cuisine, Vietnamese cuisine), they are often lumped together as "ethnic cuisine."

That said, I think the whole idea of being able to appropriate food culture is nonsense.
If a Frenchman adopted from China, that has never been to China or tried to reach back to Chinese culture, opens a Chinese restaurant in Paris, is he appropriating Chinese culture or not?

 

[Skade]

I don't really see the problem. People of every color around the world are making and selling foods for any culture they may or not be part of. It's just food.

There's a bunch of Japanese chefs who serve french cuisine and i don't see any outrage about it. About 90% of the Japanese restaurants in Paris are held by chinese people and there's no outrage about it (same goes for Thai restaurants btw).

Food is food. And Gordon rarely cook in his restaurants so who's to say he won't hire asian people to run it ?

 

[Deleted member 2254]

I'm in Italy. I ate Japanese food made by Chinese. Korean food made by Italians. Italian food made by Arabs. Mexican food made by Hungarians. I could go on. I don't care who makes which food as long as it's good and similar enough to what it's supposed to be and it has a good taste.

 

[Yinyangfooey]

Don't have that much time right now to read through this whole thread, and I'm also not giving Fox News clicks but

It feels so weird growing up I had so many people at school say to my face that the dumplings that my mom made and packed for me looked gross and now here we are opening up "authentic" Asian restaurants and paying 3x the price

 

[StrapOnFetus]

The fuck? Outrage over food now...interesting. I'll make whatever the fuck I want thank you very much..which Gordon would most likely say and agree with.

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

I think people are getting a little hung up on the price point. Ramsay charges super high prices at all of his restaurants. I almost ate ata Ramsay place tonight until I looked at the menu and saw that he charges $31 for fish and chips.

 

[Harry Potter Obama]

It's funny to me that so many supposedly progressive people online talk about cultural acceptance and diversity yet as soon as someone wants to embrace another culture they demonize them.

Lots of people on Twitter are eager to gatekeep things in the name of being "woke," so I'm not surprised there are people doing this. Hell, we just had someone who apparently was somewhat high profile telling people they couldn't celebrate lunar New Years unless they were Chinese. Problematic cultural appropriation is a very real phenomenon but this ain't that.
But these people aren't the majority and I have no doubt that Fox has exaggerated the number of people complaining.

 

[Deleted member 48897]

I think people are getting a little hung up on the price point. Ramsay charges super high prices at all of his restaurants. I almost ate ata Ramsay place tonight until I looked at the menu and saw that he charges $31 for fish and chips.

Click to shrink...

Yes. I wish I had mod powers I could inject a post right after the OP in big block letters to say something like THE ISSUE AT STAKE IS WHO STANDS TO BENEFIT FINANCIALLY. THIS TOPIC HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE VALIDITY OF, SAY, WHITE HOME-COOKS MAKING TOM YUM OR TONKATSU

 

[BAN PUNCHER]

I used to enjoy going to the little Japanese restaurant down the street from me run by a lovely young South Korean couple but when I go tonight I am going to angrily shit in my hand and hurl it at the counter.

 

[Deleted member 2761]

On topic of the label "Asian cuisine": here in Macau and Hong Kong, we would simply say "western cuisine" when referring to anything we considered not-Asian. I believe Japanese have a similar system, but having self taught Japanese and mostly reading kanji as if they're Chinese, I don't know the romaji for Japanese cuisine and western cuisine in their language.

On "authentic", I personally only treat the term as a marketing word, I doubt anyone is going to eat his food and then go and shit on the originals for being fakes. Plenty of steakhouses and pizza place here in Macau, opened by Chinese, call themselves authentic.

I personally am not too miffed about his restaurant's choice of cuisine, I don't see what harm that can be done. People are going to claim whichever flavours they like as the real taste, and while annoying as it may be, it's not that big a deal, is it?

Click to shrink...

When you're in an ethnically homogeneous area like Hong Kong and are part of the majority, you don't often consider the power dynamics that comes with being a minority. I'm going to take your word that you are curious and are willing to listen in good faith, because I feel like a broken record at this point and should just walk away.

Sure, the Hong Kong Chinese define the whole of non-Asian cuisine as "Western cuisine", but is there a history of Western chefs being disadvantaged in hiring and career advancement opportunities in their hands? You think it's a coincidence that Ramsey chose a white self-proclaimed "tofu freak" in charge of the menu as opposed to literally any Asian chefs he could have found instead? Is it respectful for such an accomplished chef to leave Asian people out when you market something as authentic Asian culture, when Asians are traditionally disadvantaged in his sphere of influence?

What of the perpetuation of Orientalist attitudes, which not only is disrespectful in the sense that hundreds of cultures are distilled into what the West sees as exotic, foreign, singular, and therefore "authentic"? The very same attitudes that people like Zimmern thought they could get away with? The same attitudes that literally allow all these drive-by posters acting patronizing and dismissive about these concerns while AsianERA (and allies) are explaining ourselves hoarse about why we're concerned? Is that respectful?

 

[Nimurai]

Why is every dumbass tweet news all of a sudden? Any attempts at a discussion about actual cultural appropriation is tainted by idiocy such as this.

 

[Good Kid mAAd Poster]

If you were truly passionate about authentic cuisine and food, you'd seek out the source.

Click to shrink...

and maybe this restaurant will cause more people to become passionate about it.

 

[Englebert3rd]

I don't see these people complaining when Jamie Oliver opened his Italian reastaurants.

 

[Deleted member 48897]

and maybe this restaurant will cause more people to become passionate about it.

Click to shrink...

They could have done that already, though. Gordon Ramsay did not receive the recipe for Cantonese roast duck from stone tablets dictated by YHWH; the technique for how to prepare it already exists and many chefs inside and outside of China know how to prepare it. What's so special about Gordon Ramsay as compared to any of these other chefs that they wouldn't pay attention to them before, but will pay attention to him?

 

[F2BBm3ga]

This last page has been a shit show.

 

[Good Kid mAAd Poster]

They could have done that already, though. Gordon Ramsay did not receive the recipe for Cantonese roast duck from stone tablets dictated by YHWH; the technique for how to prepare it already exists and many chefs inside and outside of China know how to prepare it. What's so special about Gordon Ramsay as compared to any of these other chefs that they wouldn't pay attention to them before, but will pay attention to him?

Click to shrink...

Gordon Ramsey is one of the most famous chefs in the world.

Was that a serious question?

 

[shotopunx]

This is absolutely a case of cultural appropriation. Text book, in fact.

The ignorance of speaking like asia has a monoculture as well.....

 

[shotopunx]

I don't see these people complaining when Jamie Oliver opened his Italian reastaurants.

Click to shrink...

You have to realise Italians are in no way as exploited and marginalised, right?

 

[Englebert3rd]

You have to realise Italians are in no way as exploited and marginalised, right?

Click to shrink...

Just like cuisine in general.

 

[Deleted member 48897]

Gordon Ramsey is one of the most famous chefs in the world.

Click to shrink...

Sure but his training is almost entirely in French cuisine and while he's certainly a skilled chef is at this point a household name because of how sweary he is on TV.

In terms of that necessarily making him a worthwhile touchstone for parsing Asian cuisine (which, again, hell of a broad definition there) I may as well be looking to Yo-Yo Ma for interpretations of reggae music