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riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,321
Seattle
At least for myself, if they did something like this I would cancel my Stadia preorder immediately. I'm less interested in the actual game streaming itself and more interested in the applications of that when it comes to exclusive games, scaling using the data center, giant mmos with no lag, etc. The potential is incredible and if Google allowed any kind of downloading it would show to me they aren't serious about creating games like that and I'd be out.

So you pre-ordered the service based on some idea of future games they haven't even announced that will allegedly be so advanced they require Stadia's data servers? That's pretty odd... they literally haven't announced a single title like that.

But again.... my idea doesn't stop Stadia Exclusive games from happening.. just the other 99.999% of the games they offer would have a PC copy.
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,317
1) What exactly is the problem with that idea? So some games are Stadia only, some are on the Play Store and you get a Stadia copy w/ them. So?

2) LOL @ this idea that the service is going to have many games so advanced they couldn't have a PC version.
The amount of games doesn't matter it's the messaging, stadia first big exclusive released im going to go buy it on the play store, what it's not there why can't I buy it on the play store
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,321
Seattle
The amount of games doesn't matter it's the messaging, stadia first big exclusive released im going to go buy it on the play store, what it's not there why can't I buy it on the play store

Which would market the Stadia service.... again, where is the messaging issue?

THIS GAME IS SO ADVANCED IT'S STADIA ONLY.. BUY STADIA PRO FOR $9.99 TO ACCESS

That's hardly confusing, and has built in marketing for the service. It could be advertised on the play store.. where they sell Stadia Pro.
 

Trace

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,689
Canada
So you pre-ordered the service based on some idea of future games they haven't even announced that will allegedly be so advanced they require Stadia's data servers? That's pretty odd... they literally haven't announced a single title like that.

But again.... my idea doesn't stop Stadia Exclusive games from happening.. just the other 99.999% of the games they offer would have a PC copy.

They haven't announced that but they did talk about the possibilities at the launch event. I don't mind showing my support early, it's not that expensive and I could use the Chromecast anyway.
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,317
Which would market the Stadia service.... again, where is the messaging issue?

THIS GAME IS SO ADVANCED IT'S STADIA ONLY.. BUY STADIA PRO FOR $9.99 TO ACCESS

That's hardly confusing, and has built in marketing for the service. It could be advertised on the play store.. where they sell Stadia Pro.
And it wouldn't even be stadia games either you would be buying a game made for windows and a game made for stadia, I'm sure that's not free

that would be like buying a PS4 game and windows game for 1 price
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,321
Seattle
And it wouldn't even be stadia games either you would be buying a game made for windows and a game made for stadia, I'm sure that's not free

that would be like buying a PS4 game and windows game for 1 price

If you read my post I described DRM whereby you couldn't play your Play Store copy if you were playing the game on Stadia.

So no, it would be not be like getting a PS4 game and a Windows game for 1 price.

Sony and MS have to figure out these same kind of things if they are going to start letting you play your library on xCloud/PSNow. The only difference between what I'm describing and that is the fact the actual code you are downloading will be different, but from a licensing standpoint it's really no different.

It would enhance the value proposition greatly and probably be something publishers would agree too if the DRM is strong.

I do apologize for suggesting a massive value proposition add, seems to have offended people's sensibilities here lol
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,317
If you read my post I described DRM whereby you couldn't play your Play Store copy if you were playing the game on Stadia.

So no, it would be not be like getting a PS4 game and a Windows game for 1 price.

Sony and MS have to figure out these same kind of things if they are going to start letting you play your library on xCloud/PSNow. The only difference between what I'm describing and that is the fact the actual code you are downloading will be different, but from a licensing standpoint it's really no different.

It would enhance the value proposition greatly and probably be something publishers would agree too if the DRM is strong.

I do apologize for suggesting a massive value proposition add, seems to have offended people's sensibilities here lol
Boot up PSnow on your pc and see if you can download it to your pc
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,321
Seattle
BTW... what I'm describing essentially is already a "thing" because of Stadia and UPlay+ deal.

I "get" a PC version of UPlay+ games and I "get" a Stadia version.
 

Alucardx23

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,711
At least for myself, if they did something like this I would cancel my Stadia preorder immediately. I'm less interested in the actual game streaming itself and more interested in the applications of that when it comes to exclusive games, scaling using the data center, giant mmos with no lag, etc. The potential is incredible and if Google allowed any kind of downloading it would show to me they aren't serious about creating games like that and I'd be out.

Exactly. It wouldn't be possible for Google to make the games that really take advantage of what is possible in the cloud, while at the same time having to make these games for PC. They went all in for Cloud gaming and I want to see what is possible after that. I want to see those massive and persistent worlds, populated by hundreds of thousands of NPCs with incredible AI too.
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,321
Seattle
Exactly. It wouldn't be possible for Google to make the games that really take advantage of what is possible in the cloud, while at the same time having to make these games for PC. They went all in for Cloud gaming and I want to see what is possible after that. I want to see those massive and persistent worlds, populated by hundreds of thousands of NPCs with incredible AI too.
Nothing I said would stop them from having Stadia only games.
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,321
Seattle
Maybe we will get multilplatform games that have stadia specific features too and not just exclusives. That wouldn't be possible if we had a box to download to

Again.. nothing I said would stop this from happening.

As I said.. w/ UPlay+ you already get a PC version and a Stadia version of games with that subscription. Already a precedent for this idea.

But I'll stop.. sorry I freaked you guys out by suggesting Google give us more for our money while taking away nothing.
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,317
No it's not.. WTF?

Ubisoft is coding Stadia versions of their games to be put on Stadia.. and available to people who have UPlay subscriptions, those people can also download PC copies of the same games, for one price.
Yea it's just the same uplay that you can use on pc that was ported to stadia there's nothing special about it
 

ElMexiMerican

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,506
I have my founder's edition preordered and looking forward to trying this new service. I am amazed at the negativity towards this service in just about any medium out there (Youtube, reddit, forums), it seems gamers are scared of Stadia for some odd reason.
I don't think this negativity is that unwarranted. Google does have a history of experimenting with new products and services all the time, with a lot of them leading to their eventually discontinuation. And I think in general the sentiment towards "online-only" features has always been negative for various reasons.

That being said, I have my Founder's Edition still preordered and I can't wait to experience either the train wreck or the success lmao.
 

Alucardx23

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,711
Nothing I said would stop them from having Stadia only games.

You must be delusional if you think I will waste my time explaining why I don't think that's a good idea, just so you can come back with a baseless and unfounded argument. For those that want to see what I'm talking about, this guy tripled down on a baseless argument about how Google said (still waiting for the quote) they would allow for developers to make games that use 2 or more Stadia blades, to allow 20TF or even 30TF of performance per user. You are extremely dishonest and the definition of wasting time. For those that want to read what I'm talking about you can see the link below.

 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,321
Seattle
You must be delusional if you think I will waste my time explaining why I don't think that's a good idea, just so you can come back with a baseless and unfounded argument. For those that want to see what I'm talking about, this guy tripled down on a baseless argument about how Google said (still waiting for the quote) they would allow for developers to make games that use 2 or more Stadia blades, to allow 20TF or even 30TF of performance per user. You are extremely dishonest and the definition of wasting time. For those that want to read what I'm talking about you can see the link below.

Right in that post I explained it's how the media and gamers interpreted Google's statements.

Yet you keep calling me a liar.. and now are harassing me about it across threads instead of engaging in conversation.

Now you are trying to rally other people behind your BS accusation that I'm dishonest. Reported.
 

Alucardx23

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,711
Right in that post I explained it's how the media and gamers interpreted Google's statements.

Yet you keep calling me a liar.. and now are harassing me about it across threads instead of engaging in conversation.

No you don't. Anyone can see how YOU were defending the idea that Google would allow it reading that thread. Don't quote me again, because I don't like to waste time with people like you.
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,321
Seattle
No you don't. Anyone can see how YOU were defending the idea that Google would allow it reading that thread. Don't quote me again, because I don't like to waste time with people like you.

In fact.. my entire point was I don't believe Google would allow that.

In fact.. right in the post you linked to:

riotous said:
I also don't believe Google will allow that.

I'll quote you all I please, and report you for harassing me and trying to get other people to bully me.
 

Alucardx23

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,711
In fact.. my entire point was I don't believe Google would allow that.

In fact.. right in the post you linked to:

1.png


 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,321
Seattle
My entire point was I DO NOT THINK THEY ALLOW THAT. Like read the posts you are linking to dude.

From my very first post in that thread, the one you just took a screenshot of:

The reality is I think Google is smart enough to know all of this and we won't be seeing any game or lag mitigation take advantage of multiple stadia instances for the foreseeable future

Later you linked to the EuroGamer/DigitalFoundry quote I was going on.. and I thoroughly explained why I and others interpreted that as Google saying they would allow devs to target multiple stadia instances per user..

And I repeated for the 10th time whether they actually said that or not I DO NOT BELIEVE THEY WILL ALLOW THAT. Which i explained repeatedly made the entire conversation pointless.

So can you stop derailing threads to harass me and call me a liar?
 

Pheace

Member
Aug 23, 2018
1,339
Bloody hell, how stupid you have to be to ask over and over for them to provide codes for other platforms??? Who would pay that? Would you pay extra $30 for that???
No one? Steam provides Steam keys absolutely for free to devs/publishers to do with what they want, provided they also sell the game on Steam
 

Alucardx23

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,711
My entire point was I DO NOT THINK THEY ALLOW THAT. Like read the posts you are linking to dude.

From my very first post in that thread, the one you just took a screenshot of:



Later you linked to the EuroGamer/DigitalFoundry quote I was going on.. and I thoroughly explained why I and others interpreted that as Google saying they would allow devs to target multiple stadia instances per user..

And I repeated for the 10th time whether they actually said that or not I DO NOT BELIEVE THEY WILL ALLOW THAT. Which i explained repeatedly made the entire conversation pointless.

So can you stop derailing threads to harass me and call me a liar?

Sorry, but you don't get to simply go to the past and change what you said. I asked you several times to provide proof, for when Google alluded to the idea of developers being able use multiple Stadia blades per user. To allow 20TF or 30TF per user.

2.png
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
When people start quoting quotes of quotes, saying "Back in XXX you said this" "No, I said this, and meant this" "No you didn't", that's when you should just quit the argument, when it becomes a dumb annoying argument about bad communication. Don't try to be the last one talking, just quit, you've both lost by that point.
a baseless argument about how Google said (still waiting for the quote) they would allow for developers to make games that use 2 or more Stadia blades, to allow 20TF or even 30TF of performance per user.
That's exactly what they said, in the first reveal.
Google said:
And Doom will be running on a single Stadia GPU. The fundamental benefit of our cloud native infrastructure is that developers will be able to take advantage of hardware and power in ways never before possible, and that includes taking advantage of the power of multiple GPUs at once.
So after talking about how amazing Doom was with just one GPU, they talked about how developers will be able to make even better games with multiple GPUs. They then went on to show a game where the player was fighting a giant demon, using multiple GPUs for better lighting and water effects.

(31:30 if it doesn't take you there)
 

Alucardx23

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,711
And I explained why I and other's thought they alluded to this.

STOP

I was not talking to other users. I was talking to you and you said that Google said they would allow 2 or 3 Stadia instances per user (Still waiting for the quote on this). I simply told you that they have not said anything like this.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,958
Alucardx23 you're being a douche by demanding a pound of flesh for someone that was a legitimate, admitted misunderstanding about something. I know that winning internet arguments about videogame platforms is important to our egos, but it's not that important.
 

Alucardx23

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,711
When people start quoting quotes of quotes, saying "Back in XXX you said this" "No, I said this, and meant this" "No you didn't", that's when you should just quit the argument, when it becomes a dumb annoying argument about bad communication.

That's exactly what they said, in the first reveal.

They then went on to show a game where the player was fighting a giant demon, using multiple GPUs for better lighting and water effects.


I explained all this on the previous thread. If you care to read it, you will see that Google very clearly advertised 10.7TF per user. Now, being in a server enviroment allows developers to take advantage that all of this hardware is connected and make it work together. That is not the same as saying that you can take 2 or 3 Stadia blades/instances per user. For example, you can have 100,000 players and one dedicated instance to simulate a waterfall and then share that waterfall with the 100,000 players. That is 100,000 instances + 1 instance running a simulation. What this guy is saying is that Google said that you could take those 100,000 players and assign 200,000 or 300,000 instances per user.
 

pcigre

Member
Aug 19, 2019
163
No one? Steam provides Steam keys absolutely for free to devs/publishers to do with what they want, provided they also sell the game on Steam

That is provided to publishers. Stadia is not the publisher of those games. If you think they would give those for free, you are wrong. Feel free to contact them...
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,321
Seattle
When people start quoting quotes of quotes, saying "Back in XXX you said this" "No, I said this, and meant this" "No you didn't", that's when you should just quit the argument, when it becomes a dumb annoying argument about bad communication. Don't try to be the last one talking, just quit, you've both lost by that point.

That's exactly what they said, in the first reveal.

So after talking about how amazing Doom was with just one GPU, they talked about how developers will be able to make even better games with multiple GPUs. They then went on to show a game where the player was fighting a giant demon, using multiple GPUs for better lighting and water effects.

(31:30 if it doesn't take you there)

Yes everyone and their mother has interpreted Google's statements in a way that suggests they'd allow devs to target multiple stadia instances per user.

In AllucardX23's defense though, they haven't explicitly said that. Multiple GPU compute could mean offloading processing to shared simulation servers ala Crackdown 3.

And in fact, that Demon demo sounds more like that, then traditional multi-gpu rendering, from the description:

In this demo, one GPU handles most of the traditional geometry rendering. Additional GPUs are called in as needed to enhance the scene with dynamic fluid simulations and complex particle effects.
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,321
Seattle
That is provided to publishers. Stadia is not the publisher of those games. If you think they would give those for free, you are wrong. Feel free to contact them...
Yeah as I suggested the "download version" would need DRM that blocked the ability to play on both Stadia and locally at the same time.

Which would only really be possible if Google launched a download store and gave devs tools for such DRM.
 

Merton

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,316
I just cancelled my pre order again, I'll let them workout the kinks first and see about this next year. Too many "oh rights, oh yea, no you can't do that, possibly" yets for me to buy this. While it's not very expensive, the controller and Chromecast anyway, they haven't put out a full lineup yet for launch, prices of games, will there be sales, what's included with that Stadia Pro membership (cheaper game prices),. Basically just too many unanswered questions, or them being sneaky not being upfront, that I figure I'll just wait. I really hope it does well, the possibility they are going for sounds amazing, but not going to waste money now. As a buyer, I don't like being in the dark about things. nut up and tell us what's included, what's not and why it's not. Hope everyone that does get one though loves it, it really could be the future of video gaming.
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,317
Yeah as I suggested the "download version" would need DRM that blocked the ability to play on both Stadia and locally at the same time.

Which would only really be possible if Google launched a download store and gave devs tools for such DRM.
Not happening, the whole point of stadia is to get away from the limitation of boxes

stadia is thinking outside the box and your trying to put it back in
 
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riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,321
Seattle
Not happening, the whole point of stadia is to get away from the limitation of boxes

stadia is thinking outside the box and your trying to put it back in
Again; nothing I said limits anything to do with Stadia. It just adds (rather massive) value to their product (at the cost of having to support a PC download store.)

I'm suggesting they have a difficult road with a business model that only supports Streaming compared to their competitors.

There's nothing stopping Sony or MS from having "Cloud only games" or "Cloud enhanced games" either just because they sell games for download/retail. Microsoft has already tried even.. (and kinda failed lol)
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,317
Again; nothing I said limits anything to do with Stadia.

I'm suggesting they have a difficult road with a business model that only supports Streaming compared to their competitors.

There's nothing stopping Sony or MS from having "Cloud only games" or "Cloud enhanced games" either just because they sell games for download/retail. Microsoft has already tried even.. (and kinda failed lol)
There's no reason for Sony or Microsoft to have a cloud only game because their servers are just Xboxes and ps4s same thing you can use in your home

they have put themselves in a box
 
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Alucardx23

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,711
User banned (1 day): continuously antagonizing another member across multiple posts and threads
Alucardx23 you're being a douche by demanding a pound of flesh for someone that was a legitimate, admitted misunderstanding about something. I know that winning internet arguments about videogame platforms is important to our egos, but it's not that important.

Dude, I make thousand of mistakes myself and I get confused all the time about a lot of stuff. What I will not do is double and triple down on someone that points out something to me and takes hours to explain it with links and quotes and videos. When I cannot give a good counter argument to something, I will have to review what I said and thank the other guy for the correction. This here is simply not true.

2.png


Do you think that this would have continued if I would have received a reasonable answer. Like "Google has not mentioned that developers could use 2 or more Stadia blades per user, but it is still a possibility" or "After seeing the quotes from Google and the developers, they only talk about connecting the server hardware to work together and not about dedicating multiple instances per user". But what I got was post after post on how Google did alluded to developers being able to dedicate 300,000 instances to 100,000 users.
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,321
Seattle
. Like "Google has not mentioned that developers could use 2 or more Stadia blades per user, but it is still a possibility" or "After seeing the quotes from Google and the developers, they only talk about connecting the server hardware to work together and not about dedicating multiple instances per user". But what I got was post after post on how Google did alluded to developers being able to dedicate 300,000 instances to 100,000 users.

You mean like this from yesterday?

riotous said:
I also don't believe Google will allow that. Maybe their vague statements were referring to stuff like offloading simulation data..

Or this from earlier today:

riotous said:
Google did not explicitly state they'd allow multiple Stadia instances per user to the public
 

Alucardx23

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,711
You mean like this from yesterday?



Or this from earlier today:

You have to really decide what you want to say. Either Google alluded to what you said they did or they did not. Which one is it? Did Google said that multiple instances can be used per user or not? This is your chance to clearly answer the question.
 

Pheace

Member
Aug 23, 2018
1,339
That is provided to publishers. Stadia is not the publisher of those games. If you think they would give those for free, you are wrong. Feel free to contact them...
Good lord. Of course they're handed out to publishers. Who do you think hands them out to stores to sell, Steam? The point is PUBLISHERS get Steam keys which they can give to other stores to sell their product. They are perfectly allowed to bundle them with a Stadia purchase of THEIR GAME if the publishers wanted (and Stadia would allow it), and it wouldn't cost them an extra cent to do so.

stadia is thinking outside the box and your trying to put it back in
Giving people choice is not putting something back in the box, unless you think people will not choose for the streaming option, but then that's their choice. Either way they'd be able to use it, and they would've used the store so profit made.
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,321
Seattle
Good lord. Of course they're handed out to publishers. Who do you think hands them out to stores to sell, Steam? The point is PUBLISHERS get Steam keys which they can give to other stores to sell their product. They are perfectly allowed to bundle them with a Stadia purchase of THEIR GAME if the publishers wanted (and Stadia would allow it), and it wouldn't cost them an extra cent to do so.
Problem is that would essentially give people 2 disparate copies of the game that could be played independently.

For pubs to agree there would need to be DRM that blocked the playing of a download copy while a Stadia copy is being used by that person. That's unlikely unless Google had their own launcher / PC store.