Google formally unveils the "Stadia" launching in 2019

MaulerX · Mar 20, 2019

MS and Sony both have something they can really leverage against this streaming only solution. Local hardware in addition to streaming.

If they let you stream the digital games you purchase, then we can play at home at the best possible fidelity on the local console. And streaming will be a complimentary way to access the games we already own on the go (job, hotel, whatever). In a case like that I can't see anyone logically buying a game on Stadia when they can buy a game from Sony/MS where they can play it locally AND be able to stream it.

StrayDog · Mar 20, 2019

Dorkmgl said:
.

Thanks for refreshing my memory about the subject. It has being some time I looked into NAP, IXP etc.

Niks said:
Has someone already explained what this image shows?

https://www.internetexchangemap.com/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_exchange_point

Deleted member 1698 · Mar 20, 2019

Skux said:
People aren't going to risk their gaming experience on "it depends".

Anthem was like #1 in NPD so I wouldn't be making any bold claims about what people will or will not put up with. When you consider the *cough* "influencers" will be all over this you can't write it off. Google could put up a pong stream for $10 a day and it would get a huge amount of players so long as the paddles were coloured white.

Of course for everyone else here hoping for new gaming experiences it is just another day in disappointment town.

Deleted member 20284 · Mar 20, 2019

Niks said:
Has someone already explained what this image shows?

The big dots are the actual Google datacentres around the world. The little dots are their entry/exit points to save your data getting to and from their datacentres. In reality your game rendering and controller inputs are going to be processed at the big dots and the little dots are to try to speed up the Internet for you.

Xeontech · Mar 20, 2019

ratrosaw said:
I feel that it would be helpful to clarify that a little bit. The picture displayed at the conference features edge network nodes Google builds/operates, including Google Data Centers/Google Cloud Platform regions, Google PoPs (Points of Presence), and Google Global Cache. For most people, when you access Google services, your traffic generally follows this path:

Your Device -> ISP -> PoP -> Data Center (with static contents served by Google Global Cache; for games it might be pre-rendered scenes, subtitles, audio files, etc.)

If helpful, think of PoPs as gateways to Google network; they are not data centers and do not run much workload, but they help provide a better network experience by granting you an optimized pathway to Google Data Centers. You do not need to live near a Google Data Center to get the best performance; being (physically) close to a PoP would suffice.

A list of Google-related PoPs are available here: Google Fiber, Google LLC, Google LLC AS36040.

This is real info right here. Thank you.

They are using DOOM as a benchmark for input lag at 4K 60. If it works for DOOM I'm in.

Black Chamber · Mar 20, 2019

So wait a minute - how do content creators get their money? In the presentation, they explained that I could be browsing YouTube and come across a trailer for Assassin's Creed Odyssey - but if I have a Stadia subscription, I could click play and then in 5 seconds - I'm playing it??

Let's say that this was Cyberpunk 2077 - how would CD Projekt Red get their hard-earned money when all I'm paying for is a subscription to Stadia?

It seems like developers will lose a lot of money here. Paying for a subscription to Stadia I think someone mentioned is $35 per month vs. paying $60 plus tax for a physical/digital copy of a game.

Also there's a lot of people in the world that would use this - how do they have enough systems and server setups with that many processors and gpus and what not and what if one breaks down - does that mean that your game is lost or that something is corrupted?

Maybe I'm coming at this wrong or I'm just confused by it, I don't know.

Darknight · Mar 20, 2019

Cathcart said:
That's not what he asked. Nobody lost content with the store shutting down. You can still redownload purchased games, you just can't buy new games.

I thought they cut off download access too. Fine, Sony PlayStation Mobile has cut off access from downloading again.

ratrosaw · Mar 20, 2019

Ozzy Onya A2Z said:
Thanks for the details. It's still a round trip to the closest DC though. In Australia's case that's Sydney. At minimum with Australia's largest ISP and one of the highest plans/connections available I'm still pushing 60+ms from Melbourne. Using Google's pipe through their POPs to save hops and what not might go a little better but that's not what I'm seeing from GCPing. I can't imagine trying to play Apex or Halo with an input latency doing this -

1. See what is cloud rendered to my screen e.g. multiplayer enemies
2. Reaction time
3. My inputs sent back to cloud
4. Cloud processing of inputs/world/clients
5. Rendered back to my local device
6. Repeat

It's quite a round trip, I doubt it will all be done within 50-150ms at best.

Looking at Melbourne POP (from your link and searching Melbourne) they have third party datacentres such as PIPE, Vocus (who I host physical and virtual servers with my company), AAPT etc running their DCs for them, just rack hosting and some pipe leasing basically. No Telstra though, no iiNet though (which are Australia's 2 largest ISPs, by a large amount actually).

It's basically as I say, it's not even announced here yet and I doubt it will have anything like the Azure network of support and processing in Melbourne especially.

At least Vocus own the fibre network between Melbourne to Sydney for example but you have hops from Telstra to just get into the Google POPs within a third party DC etc. It's quite a different beast to Google in USA where they own fibre all throughout.

Out of curiosity I booted a GCP VM in Sydney and pinged it from a Melbourne location. The result is as follows:

Of course network situation varies from location to location so the image really does not mean much :( Also, it seems that GCPing.com uses a f1-micro instance, which is the smallest (and cheapest) VM class GCP offers; it uses only 0.2 vCPU cores, my guess is that when under (relatively) heavy traffic the performance maybe be impacted.

ShapeDePapa · Mar 20, 2019

Black Chamber said:
So wait a minute - how do content creators get their money? In the presentation, they explained that I could be browsing YouTube and come across a trailer for Assassin's Creed Odyssey - but if I have a Stadia subscription, I could click play and then in 5 seconds - I'm playing it??

Let's say that this was Cyberpunk 2077 - how would CD Projekt Red get their hard-earned money when all I'm paying for is a subscription to Stadia?

It seems like developers will lose a lot of money will here. Paying for a subscription to Stadia I think someone mentioned is $35 per month vs. paying $60 plus tax for a physical/digital copy of a game.

Also there's a lot of people in the world that would use this - how do they have enough systems and server setups with that many processors and gpus and what not and what if one breaks down - does that mean that your game is lost or that something is corrupted?

Maybe I'm coming out this wrong or I'm just confused by it, I don't know.

The samme way artistsmake money (or don't) from Spotify i guess. Maybe it'll be based on the amount of hours a game is played. Or how many times.

Dr Pears · Mar 20, 2019

How long did it take for Netflix to become mainstream from launch?

I think streaming for games will take longer.

Darknight · Mar 20, 2019

Kinggroin said:
Friend, there's a gulf between showing literally everything possible, and...what we got with Stadia. All I'm saying is that with this amount of exposure via the stream, revealing a brand new hyped-up videogames platform without a library to speak of, was going to be a bad look.

I'm not saying anything controversial. The reactions speak for themselves.

GDC being what it is, and intentions therein do NOT change perception and reception. Am I wrong? Right now, it seems like not very many gaming forums are overly thrilled with the reveal—even if the technology is fucking boss level.

GDC has been around for over 3 decades now. WWDC has been around for a long time too. Despite all this time, people still get confused about what a developer conference is about. There will always be people who just don't get it no matter how you try to show things. If you make it all elusive, then the message doesn't get out to the developers. If you make things convoluted on how people can watch, then the message doesn't get out to developers. Despite all this because of the press, the word will still get out and gamers will be confused and upset anyway. There's just no real way to announce it to the developers without gamers finding out and despite developer conferences having been around for decades, people will still get confused on who it's intended for.

Tfritz · Mar 20, 2019

Black Chamber said:
So wait a minute - how do content creators get their money? In the presentation, they explained that I could be browsing YouTube and come across a trailer for Assassin's Creed Odyssey - but if I have a Stadia subscription, I could click play and then in 5 seconds - I'm playing it??

Let's say that this was Cyberpunk 2077 - how would CD Projekt Red get their hard-earned money when all I'm paying for is a subscription to Stadia?

It seems like developers will lose a lot of money will here. Paying for a subscription to Stadia I think someone mentioned is $35 per month vs. paying $60 plus tax for a physical/digital copy of a game.

Also there's a lot of people in the world that would use this - how do they have enough systems and server setups with that many processors and gpus and what not and what if one breaks down - does that mean that your game is lost or that something is corrupted?

Maybe I'm coming out this wrong or I'm just confused by it, I don't know.

they didn't go over any of that, which makes sense because it's a conference for Game Developers, and why would they need to know how they actually get paid

StrayDog · Mar 20, 2019

Black Chamber said:
So wait a minute - how do content creators get their money? In the presentation, they explained that I could be browsing YouTube and come across a trailer for Assassin's Creed Odyssey - but if I have a Stadia subscription, I could click play and then in 5 seconds - I'm playing it??

If they follow Spotify model. its a percent of time the users spent on artist's content in spotify that month. If user spent 1% of his time, the studio get 1% of X (X = subscription MINUS initial cut from the platform holder) Indies studios are doomed.

UltraMagnus · Mar 20, 2019

If this works for me in a reasonable way (have a pretty good internet connection), I'm probably gonna pass on getting a PS5 or XB2 at launch. Have a XBox One X already, think I will wait a few years until some price cuts on next-gen hardware and some of the actual must have games come out and maybe even for more powerful hardware models.

If there's some next-gen title I really need to play that isn't on the One X for some reason, I'll be able to get it probably through streaming.

I don't really see the need as much to be there day 1 on console launches now. The first year for most consoles kinda sucks anyway, year 2 is OK, year 3 is when it really kicks into high gear.

Unknownlight · Mar 20, 2019

I wish the mods would stop locking every Stadia thread. It's not like it'll take over the forum—the redundant threads will naturally be buried. We haven't had a significant new platform announcement in over 15 years and I think that deserves a little slack.

tapedeck · Mar 20, 2019

MaulerX said:
MS and Sony both have something they can really leverage against this streaming only solution. Local hardware in addition to streaming.

If they let you stream the digital games you purchase, then we can play at home at the best possible fidelity on the local console. And streaming will be a complimentary way to access the games we already own on the go (job, hotel, whatever). In a case like that I can't see anyone logically buying a game on Stadia when they can buy a game from Sony/MS where they can play it locally AND be able to stream it.

Yep, this is exactly what I was thinking. I just don't see it lasting against the competition who will most likely have both options..particularly MS who is investing heavily as well.

Villein · Mar 20, 2019

They have my attention but imma need to test it out for myself.

Sub Boss · Mar 20, 2019

waiting for the Platinum exclusive before bitting

Shinku_King · Mar 20, 2019

MaulerX said:
MS and Sony both have something they can really leverage against this streaming only solution. Local hardware in addition to streaming.

If they let you stream the digital games you purchase, then we can play at home at the best possible fidelity on the local console. And streaming will be a complimentary way to access the games we already own on the go (job, hotel, whatever). In a case like that I can't see anyone logically buying a game on Stadia when they can buy a game from Sony/MS where they can play it locally AND be able to stream it.

That's what I'm thinking will happen as well. I don't think stadia will be that great but for the people who like to play Fortnite/apex and madden/2k then that crowd might be pretty happy.

Trago · Mar 20, 2019

People writing this off before we even know what kind of exclusives they have lol.

If they announce a new AAA revival or new kick ass looking ip, then people will change their tune.

Black Chamber · Mar 20, 2019

Unless Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo completely sell out to this [which is highly unlikely - even bordering on impossible], you would still have to own one of their respective consoles to play their exclusive games.

This whole Stadia thing just seems destined to fail in that regard; unless their first party IP's are AAA and ridiculously stellar.

For some reason, my mind tends to think of those first-party IP's from the Google team as being something akin to the Atari Jaguar exclusives.

Inuhanyou · Mar 20, 2019

BrickArts295 · Mar 20, 2019

JessePJ said:
How long did it take for Netflix to become mainstream from launch?

I think streaming for games will take longer.

Its started in 2007 for free to DVD subs. It was arround the early 2010s when the streaming began to took off. Blockbusters called it quits around 2012 when they couldn't keep up as a competitor against Netflix.

So It took them a good 5 years to become mainstream. So lets say that Stadia could become mainstream in 2024.

DeoGame · Mar 20, 2019

(REDACTED)

Nintendo · Mar 20, 2019

JessePJ said:
How long did it take for Netflix to become mainstream from launch?

I think streaming for games will take longer.

That's a bad comparison. Subscription based digital services weren't mainstream back then. Now people are used to digital subscriptions.

Black Chamber · Mar 20, 2019

The more I think about this, the more bizarre it seems. It's basically like saying that if I had the unmatched, ultimate gaming PC in the world and when the hot new game comes out, I install it on my system and for some reason, every single person in the world has access to my rig and can play it at the maximum possible quality on thier PC's using the power of mine alone.

So what happens if my CPU burns out? What happens if my GPU burns out? What happens if something goes wrong? These are questions that would make more sense of the entire Stadia idea if they were answered.

famikon · Mar 20, 2019

Niks said:
Has someone already explained what this image shows?

I see two dots in North Korea

Oxyrain · Mar 20, 2019

Waiting for Supreme Commander Battle Royale. 1000 commanders drop onto a battlefield to smash their 5000 strong armies at each other.

Also put in terraforming and CFD modelling.

Darknight · Mar 20, 2019

Black Chamber said:
The more I think about this, the more bizarre it seems. It's basically like saying that if I had the unmatched, ultimate gaming PC in the world and when the hot new game comes out, I install it on my system and for some reason, every single person in the world has access to my rig and can play it at the maximum possible quality on thier PC's using the power of mine alone.

So what happens if my CPU burns out? What happens if my GPU burns out? What happens if something goes wrong? These are questions that would make more sense of the entire Stadia idea if they were answered.

What?

Deleted member 25600 · Mar 20, 2019

selo said:
So same thing as Onlive sounds like.

Wasn't onlive using temporary rentals? $5 to rent a game for a few days or something like that?

Black Chamber said:
The more I think about this, the more bizarre it seems. It's basically like saying that if I had the unmatched, ultimate gaming PC in the world and when the hot new game comes out, I install it on my system and for some reason, every single person in the world has access to my rig and can play it at the maximum possible quality on thier PC's using the power of mine alone.

So what happens if my CPU burns out? What happens if my GPU burns out? What happens if something goes wrong? These are questions that would make more sense of the entire Stadia idea if they were answered.

You don't know much about modern server virtualisation, do you?

Darknight · Mar 20, 2019

DrSlek said:
Wasn't onlive using temporary rentals? $5 to rent a game for a few days or something like that?

Onlive had both rentals and full purchases.

selo · Mar 20, 2019

DrSlek said:
Wasn't onlive using temporary rentals? $5 to rent a game for a few days or something like that?

You don't know much about modern server virtualisation, do you?

In the end before it died I'm not sure, but when they started I'm pretty certain you needed to pay for a full game.

R0987 · Mar 20, 2019

Black Chamber said:
The more I think about this, the more bizarre it seems. It's basically like saying that if I had the unmatched, ultimate gaming PC in the world and when the hot new game comes out, I install it on my system and for some reason, every single person in the world has access to my rig and can play it at the maximum possible quality on thier PC's using the power of mine alone.

So what happens if my CPU burns out? What happens if my GPU burns out? What happens if something goes wrong? These are questions that would make more sense of the entire Stadia idea if they were answered.

You have entire racks upon racks of ultimate gaming pc's when one dies you simply use another.

Unknownlight · Mar 20, 2019

Black Chamber said:
The more I think about this, the more bizarre it seems. It's basically like saying that if I had the unmatched, ultimate gaming PC in the world and when the hot new game comes out, I install it on my system and for some reason, every single person in the world has access to my rig and can play it at the maximum possible quality on thier PC's using the power of mine alone.

So what happens if my CPU burns out? What happens if my GPU burns out? What happens if something goes wrong? These are questions that would make more sense of the entire Stadia idea if they were answered.

Google datacenters are very big. A bunch of their computers fail every day and are quickly replaced.

google-veri-merkezlerinde-kullanilan-teknolojiler-810x389.png

TheBrokenMan · Mar 20, 2019

I am completely lost from the Stadia announcement. I watched it last night and I watched a highlight clip again. can someone answer me the following:

- what are they referring to with 10.7 TFlops? They didn't unveil a physical console or anything. just the controller.
- Did they talk about how and where to buy games?
- Will games be developed for Stadia? Can I see an exclusive Batman game for example made specifically for the Stadia? or will Stadia just piggyback off existing games line-up of games?
- How do they plan on monetizing it and how is it NOT detrimental for game developers and creators? Why should I pay $60 for MK11 if I can just grab my PS4 controller and play vs with some random guy on YouTube from my 1.2 GHz Core i5 laptop with an Intel GPU?
- Am I just looking at Spotify / Netflix for gaming?
- Have they talked about what about people in the SEA like India, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Singapore, etc getting access to Stadia? Or will they cordon it off like PSNow?

I like the whole idea and stuff, but I feel like I just watched a kickstarter video. They talked a massive game about entering the console race but they completely missed out on essentials.

Additionally, the last thing I want is to have my gaming forced with YouTube integration. I really want a way to opt out of it. Last thing I need is XxJeremy_420xX telling me what a shit player I am in the comments section if I play a game FROM youtube like they did with the AC Odysssey demo.

Nintendo · Mar 20, 2019

Niks said:
Has someone already explained what this image shows?

The lines are cables. Big dots are data centers. Smaller dots are basically the middle man between you and a data center if it's far away. It speeds up the connection.

Arebours · Mar 20, 2019

Trago said:
People writing this off before we even know what kind of exclusives they have lol.

If they announce a new AAA revival or new kick ass looking ip, then people will change their tune.

Thinking about exclusives in this context is so short sighted. Even if the tech and games are on point I and many like me are against this on principle because this is the most oppressive DRM ever devised for games. And speaking of that, despite popular belief DRM isn't and never was about protecting against piracy, it's about controlling the media player and the business advantages that comes with that. Streaming platforms equals giving upp ALL of that control to the platform owner. There is simply no way that is a good thing for the long term diversity of games and people making makes, not to mention community driven projects like modding, game preservation, community patches and so on.

riverfr0zen · Mar 20, 2019

Arebours said:
So the point is that speculating about what they might offer compared to some potential offering by sony or microsoft is meaningless when what people are worried about is losing the modding capabilities we have on pc today, and there is no way they are ever going to offer something that matches what you can do with unrestricted access to executables and data that's running locally. Not to mention that even if google provides the tools it's still going to be up to license owners for each individual game.

Yeah. It's definitely not going to be *the same* as PC today, because obviously it's a different format. I understand where you're coming from, but for all these worriers out there: How long do you realistically expect devs to continue exposing their game internals in a world where they no longer have to? The "unsanctioned" mods you are talking about are only possible (in most cases) because devs had no better (viable) way package their product. Sure, that's how it's been since days yore, but why is it an expectation?

Also, why must it be in this "by-product-of-packaging" format? If devs want to enable gamers to mod these days, there are better ways to do it, like open-sourcing parts of the code itself. Why should modding remain restricted to this messy process?

TheModestGun · Mar 20, 2019

I really hope this doesn't go down the subscription service route. We really don't want the Spotify model where the possibility of devs being profitable becomes ever shrinking because everyone expects everything for free.

SilverX · Mar 20, 2019

I know Google has tons of money, but I dont think they will be offering a Netflix style service at launch. Since most their library will be composed of recent AAA releases and upcoming ones like Doom Eternal it would just be too costly and harm the console game sales of the publishers who are supporting their platform.

I fully think it is a true platform with Stadia versions of games you can buy to stream. They could offer rentals or some game bundle deals, but I think Google is going to expect people to buy the games as if it were any other platform.

Unknownlight · Mar 20, 2019

TheBrokenMan said:
I am completely lost from the Stadia announcement. I watched it last night and I watched a highlight clip again. can someone answer me the following:

- what are they referring to with 10.7 TFlops? They didn't unveil a physical console or anything. just the controller.
- Did they talk about how and where to buy games?
- Will games be developed for Stadia? Can I see an exclusive Batman game for example made specifically for the Stadia? or will Stadia just piggyback off existing games line-up of games?
- How do they plan on monetizing it and how is it NOT detrimental for game developers and creators? Why should I pay $60 for MK11 if I can just grab my PS4 controller and play vs with some random guy on YouTube from my 1.2 GHz Core i5 laptop with an Intel GPU?
- Am I just looking at Spotify / Netflix for gaming?
- Have they talked about what about people in the SEA like India, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Singapore, etc getting access to Stadia? Or will they cordon it off like PSNow?

I like the whole idea and stuff, but I feel like I just watched a kickstarter video. They talked a massive game about entering the console race but they completely missed out on essentials.

Additionally, the last thing I want is to have my gaming forced with YouTube integration. I really want a way to opt out of it. Last thing I need is XxJeremy_420xX telling me what a shit player I am in the comments section if I play a game FROM youtube like they did with the AC Odysssey demo.

One "instance" of Stadia (the max resources a dev can use for their game per user) is currently 10.7 TFlops.
Not yet. They mentioned the "Stadia Store".
Yes, there will be exclusives.
Dunno yet.
The technology is more broad than that, but that's one application.
Not yet.

Black Chamber · Mar 20, 2019

If the power of this virtual platform is what they say it is, that means that it is endlessly upgradable so there would never be a Stadia II for example. There would just be a news announcement saying that they've upgraded the CPU and GPU and bandwidth and what not and then their games just get better. This is going to completely kill home consoles third-party appeal because aside from console exclusives from their respective companies - who would want to play a third-party game on anything other than Stadia if it does in fact have such a drastic difference in the amount of visual fidelity and power versus home consoles?

Outtrigger888 · Mar 20, 2019

Has everyone been living under a rock? game streaming services have been around for years. Honestly they needed a first party game that blew me the fuck away to sell me on this service. The you can jump from this device to this device really has no practical use. Honestly when's the last time you jumped off a game and just couldn't wait that you would boot it up on your phone?

500$ 10TF machine would have made me interested.

Dlacy13g · Mar 20, 2019

As I watched the event I was impressed by quite a bit of their presentation. However, during their stream as I watched it on YouTube using Chrome on a 100mb speed connection I my screen pixelated a few times and then had the video stream actually skip back a few seconds twice in a dejavu like experience. So I am a bit skeptical on some of the lofty claims.

Also... This entire presentation felt almost like a stealth service for YouTube. More ways and easier ways to be on YouTube felt like the underlying message. The message was evryone is supposed to want to be a streamer on YouTube only. Btw did anyone hear mention of streaming to anything but YouTube?

Nintendo · Mar 20, 2019

Outtrigger888 said:
Has everyone been living under a rock? game streaming services have been around for years.

Not on this scale. None of the other services have Google's tech and data centers.

Stellar · Mar 20, 2019

Well I'm on the east coast so I'm not really worried about the latency. Actually quite interested about the Stadia, perhaps more interested in this than the PS5/Xbox2/Switch 2. The allure of paying a flat monthly fee and being able to instantly play a bunch of games via very high quality streaming is big for me. Cautiously optimistic about this.

riverfr0zen · Mar 20, 2019

TheModestGun said:
I really hope this doesn't go down the subscription service route. We really don't want the Spotify model where the possibility of devs being profitable becomes ever shrinking because everyone expects everything for free.

It's a possibility, but do you really think game devs will let that happen? I feel like game devs are more savvy to digital revenue models than musicians or artists typically are, and that they will be fighting tooth and nail to ensure any model doesn't stray too far from what they are getting these days.

Deleted member 1698 · Mar 20, 2019

Black Chamber said:
If the power of this virtual platform is what they say it is, that means that it is endlessly upgradable so there would never be a Stadia II for example. There would just be a news announcement saying that they've upgraded the CPU and GPU and bandwidth and what not and then their games just get better. This is going to completely kill home consoles third-party appeal because aside from console exclusives from their respective companies - who would want to play a third-party game on anything other than Stadia if it does in fact have such a drastic difference in the amount of visual fidelity and power versus home consoles?

Be right back, buying playstation now shares as this seems amazing.

I mean it isn't available in Australia, and even if it comes here it will be the capital cities only, but still, can't see a downside.

Oh I suppose I would need to start an isp that doesn't use data caps, but besides that this is ready to rock.

famikon · Mar 20, 2019

Nintendo said:
The lines are cables. Big dots are data centers. Smaller dots are basically the middle man between you and a data center if it's far away. It speeds up the connection.

Those dots are fake anyway. I doubt they have two data-centers in North Korea.

riverfr0zen · Mar 20, 2019

Unknownlight said:
One "instance" of Stadia (the max resources a dev can use for their game per user) is currently 10.7 TFlops.

I think one Stadia instance is the *minimum* that can be used for a game per user. Pretty sure they said that "session" can be scaled, no?

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