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Good graphics are not synonymous with realistic art styles (also talking about Nintendo)
- Thread starter Vitamin_B_Complex
- Start date
Yeah. Art style is so important, and you can be super stylized, but I think tech will still always be a big part of it.
Like you said, BOTW with the same tech and color grading as Ghost of Tsushima. Would be absolutely stunning. Think about any Dreamworks or Pixar movie. Fifteen years later, they don't really look that good anymore. Modern ones look incredible despite heavily stylization, because they also have great tech.
I gotta be honest with you, even as a game developer who has worked in large teams, this shit still completely and utterly floors me.
It is just mind boggling to me that this is what we can do in video games now. I hope everyone involved feels like a champion.
This is a long shot, but whatever. The "We" is probably US audiences who - according to marketing's gross generalizations - reaaaally like realism.
In a non-game example, the Oscars often gave props to films that focus on "realism". This has arguably influenced the directions taken by a lot of studios - and in term, games that love aping Hollywood and strive for realism in graphics.
EDIT: For clarity and trying to make more sense.
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Because people mistake that realism = better, it's the same thing we saw decades back with the hate the Wind Waker got for looking "ugly" and "cartoony" and being "babbyish" for it's artstyle which result in Twilight Princess looking the way it does and most agree in hindsight, the former is more impressive and timeless while the later has aged more (like how Link's "realistic" expressions in Twilight are heavily limited and go into dull surprise territory compared to wide range Toon Link has). In fact most "realistic" games end up looking less impressive in hindsight compared to stylized ones.
And then their is a simple matter of maturity. Honestly so many times I've seen this happen, it's people who are insecure for liking "kiddy" stuff which usually translates to anything stylized, silly or not "realistic". It's the same juvenile mentality that makes some think that having a ton of violence and nudity inheritly better and more "mature" then stories telling deep emotional stories but uses more stylized presentation or snobs who scoff at Sci-Fi and Fantasy for not being "serious" works compared to say historical dramas or romance.
The comic industry is the best example of how bad this mentality can get with the Dark Age of comics where everything became "realistic" (because realism in most of these cases really isn't) with tons of murder, gore, pouches, action after action and art like this:
You might say that's unfair, but after decades of seeing this over and over, from competitive fighting game players demanding only "serious" characters and mainstays like Blanka and Kuna to be cut because their SERIOUS players and want to be taken seriously (seriously I've seen this from even Smash fans who hated Banjo getting added for being to "silly") or characters like Lucky Chloe being hated for being so silly and again, it's hard not to notice that many of those complaining get drawn to characters like like Bryan Fury:
This was something even Katsuhiro Harada himself pointed out in the Lucky Chloe situation.
And the same is true with "realistic" styles in games, I noticed this most back when games like Gears of War were hailed for this and the resulting "real is brown" overuse in games that became the norm for years after that which again, we mock in hindsight along with the other "realistic" tropes that were norm like the heavy overuse of bloom and camera bobs.
And then their is a simple matter of maturity. Honestly so many times I've seen this happen, it's people who are insecure for liking "kiddy" stuff which usually translates to anything stylized, silly or not "realistic". It's the same juvenile mentality that makes some think that having a ton of violence and nudity inheritly better and more "mature" then stories telling deep emotional stories but uses more stylized presentation or snobs who scoff at Sci-Fi and Fantasy for not being "serious" works compared to say historical dramas or romance.
The comic industry is the best example of how bad this mentality can get with the Dark Age of comics where everything became "realistic" (because realism in most of these cases really isn't) with tons of murder, gore, pouches, action after action and art like this:
You might say that's unfair, but after decades of seeing this over and over, from competitive fighting game players demanding only "serious" characters and mainstays like Blanka and Kuna to be cut because their SERIOUS players and want to be taken seriously (seriously I've seen this from even Smash fans who hated Banjo getting added for being to "silly") or characters like Lucky Chloe being hated for being so silly and again, it's hard not to notice that many of those complaining get drawn to characters like like Bryan Fury:
This was something even Katsuhiro Harada himself pointed out in the Lucky Chloe situation.
And the same is true with "realistic" styles in games, I noticed this most back when games like Gears of War were hailed for this and the resulting "real is brown" overuse in games that became the norm for years after that which again, we mock in hindsight along with the other "realistic" tropes that were norm like the heavy overuse of bloom and camera bobs.
Really, this. I bought a 4K tv and i played some switch games and man, they look like crap. Nintendo needs to step up in that department tbh.
Is it just a TV issue? I play my Switch on my 4K PC monitor since launch and I sit fairly close since my Switch setup is essentially an extension of my PC, they look pretty good.
Don't see how that's a controversial statement outside a pure tech wank argument. Good art style can always shine; better tech enhances it, but will never be a substitute for it.
If anything, the more controversial statement here would be that "realistic" games can still have excellent and creative art direction. It feels like pushback against the "kiddy graphics" nonsense of the early 2000s had the unfortunate side-effect of making some people discount more realistic styles as uniform and bland. See also the "Realistic art styles never age well" nonsense.
If anything, the more controversial statement here would be that "realistic" games can still have excellent and creative art direction. It feels like pushback against the "kiddy graphics" nonsense of the early 2000s had the unfortunate side-effect of making some people discount more realistic styles as uniform and bland. See also the "Realistic art styles never age well" nonsense.
Bro what. Parasite won Best Picture this year. And what part of Cats, the wackiest film imaginable by a British-Australian director that won't be nominated for any Oscars ever, is representative of Hollywood's strive for realism? Like nothing you just said added up. The biggest movies in Hollywood right now are superhero flicks. Hollywood could use a lot more realism, tbh.
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Realistic graphics pander to the "casual" crowd a lot from what I've seen. Met way too many people that refuse to play so and so because it looked cartoony (Fortnite, OW) or cell-shaded. There's also the notion that anything that isn't realistic is deemed "for kids" because their photorealistic idea of graphics isn't there. It's an issue with Nintendo's gorgeous art styles. But throw on BF5 on ultra and verbatim they've said, "now this is more like it".
Which is fine I guess. But it is a misunderstanding when it comes to good graphics.
Which is fine I guess. But it is a misunderstanding when it comes to good graphics.
This bullshit that people only complain about graphics because it's not realistic is disingenous at best, misleading at worse. Crash remake is not realistic, but you didn't got people complaing about that. Neither with rachet and clank remke or even the game coming out on ps5 either. Cartony artstyles that looks good graphically are like that. When people complaing about graphics on botw they are asking why this:
became this:
Tons of details are missing, and the game still has constant slowdowns. So, don't come to me and say that it is the best a game can look. Hell, luigi mansion alone show how good a game can look when it focus on the hardware capabilities. Outer worlds is another that is clearing trying chew more than it can have. Its clear that if developer had more time, more knowledge, and made more decisions towards the hardware at hand, the game would look better, plain and simple.
Hell, even kojima said that looking at gta he felt sad that his game could look better and felt sad about it, so how people are insisting that it looks just as good as it can?
It's not disrepectfull to say that some games are not focusing in hagin the best graphics it could. It's disrespectful to say it the best they can do when even they say it isn't.
became this:
Tons of details are missing, and the game still has constant slowdowns. So, don't come to me and say that it is the best a game can look. Hell, luigi mansion alone show how good a game can look when it focus on the hardware capabilities. Outer worlds is another that is clearing trying chew more than it can have. Its clear that if developer had more time, more knowledge, and made more decisions towards the hardware at hand, the game would look better, plain and simple.
Hell, even kojima said that looking at gta he felt sad that his game could look better and felt sad about it, so how people are insisting that it looks just as good as it can?
It's not disrepectfull to say that some games are not focusing in hagin the best graphics it could. It's disrespectful to say it the best they can do when even they say it isn't.
I think UC4 & TLou2 will always look good as the tech ages.
And in retrospect people will realize that they weren't going for photrealism.Just like how TLoU1 still looks good today and is conceived to be rather stylized.
I expect ND to go for prebaked solutions in some of their scenes even in the age of ray tracing.
I'm very much in the pro-art camp as a gamer. I was playing Okami not long back and, damn, if that game doesn't look fantastic on modern hardware, same with Windwaker on Wii U. Hides such a multitude of technical shortcomings.
became this:
Yep... That initial reveal looked too good to be true and turned out it was. One of the most misleading showings I can think of from Nintendo.
I think great graphics can be non realistic as well. I just dont think Nintendo games are top tier graphically when it comes to non realistic graphics. For example ori , journey, ratchet and clank etc.. look far better graphically than most Nintendo games imo.