"Goku" is trending...because Toyotaro's Super manga spoilers pissed everyone off.

[SageShinigami]

Super is garbage. Black was the only decent arc and that was ruined by its dumb ending.

Tournament of Power was straight up bad. Sure, it was "hype" at the time (especially the ending), but it was just a constant dumb drawn-out barrage of fights that don't amount to shit.
We thought maybe that minor characters will do something but at the end they just fought a bunch of F2P MMO reject motherfuckers.
I have watched most of DBZ multiple times, but I have absolutely zero reason to watch Tournament of Power to see Roshi fighting some bird creature.

The manga has made -some- beats better but has managed overall to be even worse. This arc is unique because it seemed like it was attempting to do something special, only for it to come crashing down with this parody level shit.

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Counter point: The Tournament of Power in the anime is not only better than Black (which fuckin' sucked), it's the best arc in Dragon Ball Z, period. Full stop. It's got it's warts, but I'd take it over pretty much every other arc 1 billion times out of one billion. I can see holding the opposite opinion, but only if the only characters you've ever cared about are Goku and Vegeta, which...I mean. I guess the show trained everyone to only care about them.

Oh you mean how Kale had zero development and turns out her powers kill her? So that instead of her coming to terms with her powers and fusing out of her own will as her relationship with Caulifla moves forward and now she feels equal to her...she is FORCED to fuse against her will to save her life because women die when they're strong?

And Gohan has plenty of better moments in the anime than getting a tie with a character that already gave up.

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SHE SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO FUSE ANYWAY! That shit was bullshit lmao. Having just rewatched it this week, Goku beat both those girls' asses (I guess that's better), and then they got to fuse 'cause Zeno was like "I'll allow it". And then they lost to a Goku who'd already blown all his strength fighting Jiren, because he magically got to hit Ultra Instinct again. The fight itself was cool, the logic behind it was dumpster juice, and in the end the only reason I didn't hate the fight entirely was him sliding on an energy beam.

 

[ArchedThunder]

The fact that it's been 5 years since Super started and people still have knee jerk reactions based on little information after that has constantly resulted in egg on people's faces is baffling. Just wait for the full chapter, it's not that hard.
Wouldn't be shocked if Goku expected this and will just continue his beat down of Moro.

 

[BWoog]

There's only so much you can do with the Dbz formula. What exactly do you expect?

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The problem is that they had the perfect option to break the mold in that they gave Vegeta a story line and skills that he had never seen before.

Vegeta feeling legit bad for what he did to the Planet Namek, travelling to Yardrat, and learning new shit that had Goku saying "Shit Vegeta, yeah you finally beat me." and then he gets fucking clowned again.

How the fuck does Goku master Ultra Instinct by getting mad about Meru's death when the entire point of Ultra Instinct is that it doesn't work if you're mad?

 

[SageShinigami]

The fact that it's been 5 years since Super started and people still have knee jerk reactions based on little information after that has constantly resulted in egg on people's faces is baffling. Just wait for the full chapter, it's not that hard.
Wouldn't be shocked if Goku expected this and will just continue his beat down of Moro.

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Expected what? He GAVE IT TO HIM. This is literally just a retread of the Cell Saga. But I'm not gonna blame that on the manga. I'm gonna blame it on Super in general. That's all it's ever been outside of a few high points.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Take One: Roshi fights off fucking Jiren and explains that UI is a power that all of Goku's masters have always had in some form but Goku never realized it. Goku realizes he's a bad apprentice (lmao) and just flips UI on because he had it the whole time or something

Take Two: Toyotaro realizes the anime version is more popular and has Merus state that UI is activated by being subjected to a strong shock like in the anime

Take Three: Fuck it I can do better! Toyotaro says that UI is actually activated by going through a strong emotional moment and remaining calm, so when Merus kills himself he tries to ripoff the Krillin dies (Goku is framed exactly in the same way ) moment but instead of going apeshit, Goku doesnt really give a shit, so he gets UI.

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2 and 3 are the same thing, and saying "Goku doesn't give a shit, so he gets UI" is an awful misreading of the scene. Also the argument that it was a rip off of Krillin's death doesn't make sense to me, literally everything about the situation was different.

The problem is that they had the perfect option to break the mold in that they gave Vegeta a story line and skills that he had never seen before.

Vegeta feeling legit bad for what he did to the Planet Namek, travelling to Yardrat, and learning new shit that had Goku saying "Shit Vegeta, yeah you finally beat me." and then he gets fucking clowned again.

How the fuck does Goku master Ultra Instinct by getting mad about Meru's death when the entire point of Ultra Instinct is that it doesn't work if you're mad?

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Do you read the manga? Because that last paragraph isn't what happened.
Also the arc isn't over yet, not sure why people are sure Vegeta's powers won't be relevant.

Expected what? He GAVE IT TO HIM. This is literally just a retread of the Cell Saga. But I'm not gonna blame that on the manga. I'm gonna blame it on Super in general. That's all it's ever been outside of a few high points.

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Expected that Moro wouldn't just go back to prison.

 

[Iacomus]

Ah yes, turning your first female Super Saiyan character into a doormat sucking up to the greatness of a man and resigning herself to die without a fight is ok because the power levels are scaled....

C'mon

And you can't tell me the "Power levels are scaled" after this...

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She is not the first! Caufila was the first, Kale was second then Kefla was third. Stopping seeing these characters as binary gender because they're Saiyan fighters. (If you want to get super technical; Baby Pan and Videl where the first Super Saiyan female characters) but no one accepts that either.

The fight is scaled because this is meant to be a return of Buu Saga Gohan. We get a scale of Kefla's power (without anime influence) with his fight she is on the same level as Buu and possibly more because she used a lot of energy before hand.

The problems in the anime are always the same;

• SSJ 1 through 3 mean nothing to the heroes but for villians SSJ1 can go toe to toe with SSJ Blue, the power of a god?
  • Really? A god like power that takes tons if not years of training is equal to a SSJ1 screaming man? Even the manga gave a realistic take and problem with that power, that too much usage of the Legendary power would burn the person out and kill them.
  • Even Caulfia's mastery of SSJ 1 then 2 was pretty dumb. I accepted she has talent beyond comprehension but still dumb
• Anime is for 'show 'and prolonged fights
  • Each ToP had a moment where U7 fighters got a moment to shine. Tien/Krillen are another story but they helped.
  • Goku was out of power three times? Given energy by Freize, beaten repeatedly by Cauilfa/Kale and then given more energy from Vegeta.
• Anime overtook the manga and even with 'filler' ended before he began.
  • Whatever medium you see first you will always have a bias towards it. I loved the anime, but I can alwso seperate it from the manga.
• Toriyama only gives notes the rest is filled in my the creator.

Roshi:
I would rather have that scene, then him raping Puar over and over again so that he can get over his lust for women that the anime did. Also everytime that scene is mentioned no one uses the posts the previous scenes where he mentions about what those years of training under different master was for if you only see power levels you are doomed to fail and then proceeds to show Goku was technique means;

Master Roshi basically tells Goku to stop focusing on pure power so much and think about skill/moving better

711 views on Imgur: The magic of the Internet

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Master Roshi’s “Ultra Instinct” skill and it’s use against Jiren

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Vegeta even showed that again in the manga, Vegeta is under Goku powers, yet was able to destroy Moro. Why? Technique. Power Scaling is not the same as power levels. Its like in any other shonen manga, you can both use your special attack all you want to but the way you will is with technique and cunning that's one of the reasons why One Piece is still going today.

I don't defend Toyotaro, but goddamn. He is not destroying the manga because even Toyiama is supporting him.

 

[Roliq]

And people claimed that the manga was better lmao

 

[Big One]

The fact that it's been 5 years since Super started and people still have knee jerk reactions based on little information after that has constantly resulted in egg on people's faces is baffling. Just wait for the full chapter, it's not that hard.
Wouldn't be shocked if Goku expected this and will just continue his beat down of Moro.

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Unfortunately a lot of Dragon Ball fans don't know how to respond to stuff like this other than toxicity. Theres even memes online on twitter of people pointing guns at Toyotaro. Shit ain't cool. :/

I'm not saying people shouldn't or dont need to be mad about stuff. That's your right of an opinion. In my opinion - however - I've found the talk about Dragon Ball's sanctity as a quality story to be a losing battle since that's the last thing the series is known for.

 

[Typhoon20]

I fully agree OP.

Time for a change. Let someone else, worthy, handle it.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Goku be like:

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lmao

 

[Ouroboros]

That is dumb. Goku learns from his fighting mistakes. He would have learned from his mistake with Cell. This is dumb.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Can you name some weekly onj going shounen from past 5 years that have better animation than DragonBall Super. I woulkd agree to Naruto. The final naruto vs sasuke fight is hard to match with reasonable budget. But those episodes ended in like 2015, no?

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Watch any Zoro fight from the latest arc in One Piece. Almost every other episode has a stand out scene. Even with the poor pacing it runs circles around Super at it's best.

Hell here's a completely unimportant moment in the context of the larger story and they STILL animated the fuck out of it. This was just TWO WEEKS ago:

 

[Big One]

That is dumb. Goku learns from his fighting mistakes. He would have learned from his mistake with Cell. This is dumb.

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He didnt make a mistake when he gave a senzu bean to Cell. Its morally wrong, but he intended it to happen and in the end everything went according to his plan soo...

 

[TalonJH]

At some point the rest of the crew needs to have an intervention with Goku.

Anyway, I expect this from Goku but this whole arc has gone on too long.

 

[KimiNewt]

Counter point: The Tournament of Power in the anime is not only better than Black (which fuckin' sucked), it's the best arc in Dragon Ball Z, period. Full stop. It's got it's warts, but I'd take it over pretty much every other arc 1 billion times out of one billion. I can see holding the opposite opinion, but only if the only characters you've ever cared about are Goku and Vegeta, which...I mean. I guess the show trained everyone to only care about them.

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I don't understand what you mean, because my favourite characters are actually Piccolo, Tien and I like other "minor" characters like Krillin and Gohan. I felt really dissatisfied by the nothing they got. The main thing is that they all just beat a bunch of nobodys and were made to look like chumps.

 

[Ouroboros]

He didnt make a mistake when he gave a senzu bean to Cell. Its morally wrong, but he intended it to happen and in the end everything went according to his plan soo...

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Ya so I'm recalling my memory when it first aired on toonami I could have sworn he had regrets but there I go again trying to make Goku more of a hero and not a selfish fighter again!

 

[Big One]

Ya so I'm recalling my memory when it first aired on toonami I could have sworn he had regrets but there I go again trying to make Goku more of a hero and not a selfish fighter again!

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Basically Goku's entire thing at the Cell Games was to get Gohan over as his replacement. That's why he was willing to sacrifice himself to help his son out. Gohan succeeded...then when Gohan grew up he wasnt all that popular as the protagonist with the Japanese audience so yeah real life took over there lol.

 

[Lunar Wolf]

Goku is a Saiyan, you're thinking of Sicilians.

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Can you name some weekly onj going shounen from past 5 years that have better animation than DragonBall Super. I woulkd agree to Naruto. The final naruto vs sasuke fight is hard to match with reasonable budget. But those episodes ended in like 2015, no?

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Boruto. They have fights that are actually too good for the series if I'm honest and I think Boruto is alright too. Clearly that Naruto budget was kept for Boruto.

(Sarada one punch manning her way through fights is so satisfying. Unlike Sakura, she can actually land her punches.)

 

[WrenchNinja]

On the face of it, it looks pretty stupid. And given the history of the manga, it probably is something stupid. But maybe the finished chapter will surprise.

 

[Twig]

this is pretty bad

but somehow it's still not gt bad

 

[Tabaxi]

Just wait for the full chapter, it's not that hard.
Wouldn't be shocked if Goku expected this and will just continue his beat down of Moro.

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Of course that's going to happen. In the last panel of the preview Goku clearly doesn't look worried that Moro betrayed him.

But again, that raises the question: why give him the senzu bean? Moro isn't dying or needs the energy to escape Namek, the fight is over, and Goku is asking Moro to go to jail willingly.

Again, the answer the obvious: Toyo thinks Goku shouldn't outright kill Moro, but for some reason doesn't think just sending him to jail would be a good ending, so he's ripping off the scene in Namek where Goku gives Freeza energy, Freeza betrays him and Goku kills him as an out, while also ripping off the "Goku gives Cell a senzu bean" scene.

 

[SageShinigami]

I don't understand what you mean, because my favourite characters are actually Piccolo, Tien and I like other "minor" characters like Krillin and Gohan. I felt really dissatisfied by the nothing they got. The main thing is that they all just beat a bunch of nobodys and were made to look like chumps.

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Then you're vastly overrating how they looked in Dragon Ball Z. I've always preferred the way other shonen anime do it, where rivals and characters are introduced that the side characters can overcome and get to look cool. DBZ tends to introduce one main villain and no one else, and Goku always beats them. Occasionally they'll pull a Tree of Might, where a bunch of mooks show up and wash the side characters because Goku has to beat everyone. Making the side characters look completely useless.

I thought they all got some great moments compared to what they usually get. Roshi got to take out half of an entire universe. That whole "The old man's still got it" run was awesome. Piccolo and Gohan got to work together and there's so many amazing callbacks to some of their older team-ups. It's gone from Piccolo doing all of the work to Gohan clearly being stronger but working with his old friend and teacher. Tien...I'll admit they hoed Tien, who's my favorite character. Gohan got SO MUCH during that arc. Again and again he proved himself in ways Z basically wouldn't allow after he beat Cell, and even for most of Super.

There's so much development for those characters that even when there are utter garbage moments like Goku beating way too many people, I just can't get too mad at that arc.

 

[Jeb]

Dragon Ball Super is fucking trash.

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Quoted for emphasis.

 

[Cruxist]

L O L.

Moro started as a potentially interesting villain who quickly just turned into Cell 2.0. Womp womp.

 

[John Doe]

Meh, the real question is, why does Super keep referencing old scenes instead of building new ones. IT isn't the manga alone that does this.

Vegeta's final atonement was done in the ToP. Piccolo's sacrifice in RoF. We get the moments but not the emotional build-up that led to them, making them meaningless.

 

[Fj0823]

On the face of it, it looks pretty stupid. And given the history of the manga, it probably is something stupid. But maybe the finished chapter will surprise.

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I don't see how Goku magically being "Gotcha Moro I expected you to attack me after I gave you the Senzu so take THIS" solves any of the issues with the scene.

The problem is that it reeks of pandering in a way that takes you out of the story. Like The Rise of Skywalker and the Sith expert dude telling us why the TLJ complaints about Holdo raming at light speed were valid

The dialogue might as well include AMIRITE INTERNET? At the end

 

[808s & Villainy]

Can you name some weekly onj going shounen from past 5 years that have better animation than DragonBall Super. I woulkd agree to Naruto. The final naruto vs sasuke fight is hard to match with reasonable budget. But those episodes ended in like 2015, no?

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Well Boruto carried on the animation quality of Naruto and still reigns supreme.
One Piece has pretty good animation in its big fight scenes (the extra flourishes they add over the manga, I'm not a fan of, but animation wise)
Other than that, are there even that many currently running weekly battle shonen anime?

Meh, the real question is, why does Super keep referencing old scenes instead of building new ones. IT isn't the manga alone that does this.

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Well when the overall plotting is either being done by Toriyama, who had checked out way back in the Cell saga or Toyotaro, a huge Toriyama fanboy...what do you expect?

 

[IDreamOfHime]

Goku would give 2020 a Sensu bean, fucking psychopath.

 

[roflwaffles]

This is mad dumb but I wouldn't be surprised if the anime did the same thing.

 

[KimiNewt]

Then you're vastly overrating how they looked in Dragon Ball Z. I've always preferred the way other shonen anime do it, where rivals and characters are introduced that the side characters can overcome and get to look cool. DBZ tends to introduce one main villain and no one else, and Goku always beats them. Occasionally they'll pull a Tree of Might, where a bunch of mooks show up and wash the side characters because Goku has to beat everyone. Making the side characters look completely useless.

I thought they all got some great moments compared to what they usually get. Roshi got to take out half of an entire universe. That whole "The old man's still got it" run was awesome. Piccolo and Gohan got to work together and there's so many amazing callbacks to some of their older team-ups. It's gone from Piccolo doing all of the work to Gohan clearly being stronger but working with his old friend and teacher. Tien...I'll admit they hoed Tien, who's my favorite character. Gohan got SO MUCH during that arc. Again and again he proved himself in ways Z basically wouldn't allow after he beat Cell, and even for most of Super.

There's so much development for those characters that even when there are utter garbage moments like Goku beating way too many people, I just can't get too mad at that arc.

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I think maybe the issue here for me is that they looked like jobbers when they lost, and also that the characters they were up against were mostly uninteresting.
Additionally, usually when shounen does that stuff with side characters, it either has that "Go on ahead, I'll take care of this" bit (e.g. Naruto's Sasuke rescue arc) or that the main character is incapacitated (Namek arc in DBZ, Arlong and such in One Piece).

Here it didn't feel like either. Most of the time Goku or Vegeta were just off screen doing whatever, they could've just bonked almost everyone in a second (if we stayed true to power levels anyway).
Additionally other than Roshi and Gohan which you mentioned the rest were tossed aside. Roshi's was dumb because they could've at least have him die, you have like five sets of dragonballs!

That makes me think: no one actually died in Super, did they?
I'm also pissed at Whis being just able to revive people willy-nilly. When you need to use the dragonballs at least there's a built-in delay (and the kill the creator "escape route"), now it's just whatever.

 

[Sou Da]

I think Dragon Ball Multiverse is way better then Super and Toyotaro's follow-up


runs away

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it's true

 

[Deleted member 51539]

Sounds exactly like shit Goku would do.

 

[MasteroFlich]

....
Other than that, are there even that many currently running weekly battle shonen anime?

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That's the point no one cared to give a shit. I am glad there is a Dragonball Super because no one else tries anymore do shows of this scale.

 

[Deleted member 4869]

Super is fucking terrible. Dragon Ball ended with GT for me. Fuck everything else.

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Finally a person of culture around here. Super sucks all around, not just the manga.

 

[Deleted member 279]

Im a diehard DB fan and apologist, but gotta admit the manga has not been very exciting since the ToP

 

[just_myles]

I like how Toyotaro scales his characters. The way he handled Gokus MUI and Vegetas power up is much better than the anime.

I'm not going to over react and panic over a clear editorial oversight. Though this characters has historical context of doing the same and not learning. Again more clickbait. Y'all fell for it.

 

[NeonZ]

That makes me think: no one actually died in Super, did they?

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Everyone briefly dies when Freeza blows up the planet, but then Whis resets time. Everyone from the future was killed by Zamasu too. Everyone who isn't from U7 is killed during the ToP and then brought back at the end, this includes a few supporting characters, not just antagonists (like Gowasu and some of the U6 crew).

 

[Deleted member 4869]

I think Dragon Ball Multiverse is way better then Super and Toyotaro's follow-up

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Absolutely. Multiverse at least presents interesting ideas, unlike Super which is pretty much garbage and proof that Toriyama doesn't give a fuck anymore and hasn't since the Buu Saga.

 

[Ruisu]

Boruto. They have fights that are actually too good for the series if I'm honest and I think Boruto is alright too. Clearly that Naruto budget was kept for Boruto.

(Sarada one punch manning her way through fights is so satisfying. Unlike Sakura, she can actually land her punches.)

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Is there a watch list of Boruto with just the episodes with good fights? I would love that

 

[MnM]

Once again DragonBall Super gets the treatment (and quality) it deserves.

 

[Lunar Wolf]

Is there a watch list of Boruto with just the episodes with good fights? I would love that

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Depends on whether you want to include good skirmishes in the good fights category because sometimes Boruto blue balls you. They give you a great animation sequence that ends in 3 minutes because they're either interrupted, the opposing forces runs/disappears or they have no reason to continue.

Off the top of my head in order though:

1) Episode 9 has Hanabi versus Boruto and Boruto & Sarada versus Kagemasa.

2) Episode 14 has Sumire versus Mitsuki and Boruto but this one's on the low end of good because there isn't enough.

3) Episode 23 has Sakura, Sasuke and Sarada versus Shin but emphasis on Sakura versus Shin.

4) Episode 30 is Sarada versus Buntan. Great solo fight for Sarada.

5) Episode 31 is a whole brawl between Boruto, Mitsuki, Yagura and Shizuma.

6) Episode 36-37 is the Genin Graduation Exams which involves all the Academy students versus Kakashi, Anko, Konohomaru and Shino.

7) Episode 38 has another low end of good fight. Sarada and Boruto versus Mirai.

8) Episode 39 has a godly fight between Oro and Log. That's where that top Oro gif comes from.

9) Episode 42 has a good team fight of the New Team 7 against Random Ninja. Also some Konohomaru action.

10) Episode 54 has a godly fight that's too short between Sasuke and Kinshiki. It's flashbacked to here.

11) Episodes 57-65 are all just good to amazing fights culminating in episode 65 which is one of the best animated fights in the Naruto world.

12) Episode 87 is a fight that comes out of nowhere for how it is good. It's Sarada, Boruto, Inojin and Cho Cho versus Kakou.

13) Episode 90 is a low end of good fight. Boruto and Sarada versus Kirara.

14) Episode 99 is a great fight but too short that happens in the beginning. It's Team 7 and Konohomaru versus Juugo. Emphasis on Kono versus Juugo.


I took a break from Boruto from there and watch sporadic episodes but I plan to watch all the ones I missed when I have free time later this year. I know there are some other great fights there.


I do know that the following are must watch fights:

Episode 151 is Boruto versus Shojoji and it's a manga canon fight.

Episode 166 is Boruto, Sarada and Mitsuki versus Deepa and it's the episode that all of Twitter was talking about not too long ago.

 

[pillowtalk]

I think Dragon Ball Multiverse is way better then Super and Toyotaro's follow-up

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Yes. I wish DBZ ended after namek and switched the series over to new characters on a new planet with dragon ball adventures. Basically jump to new settings after big story arcs. And have all these teams meet at a tournament of power 20 years later.

 

[Zan]

Dragon Ball Super has always felt like fanfic building off of fanfic. So while it's not suprising, it's a tad dissapointing it went this route.

 

[Rendering...]

Goku, you knob.

 

[HStallion]

The Dragon Ball Super anime is just as bad as the manga. The ToP was terrible outside of a couple of hype moments and the Black arc had a terrible ending. Not sure why some people suddenly feel the manga went south when it's been this way since Buu showed up in Z. There are few series more creatively bankrupt than Dragon Ball.

 

[Entryhazard]

Kefla and Caulifa are my two favourites. But I can see what he is going for with his ToP.

• ToP anime - spectacle and amazing prolonged fights.
• ToP Manga - Power scaled fights.

Anime had problems like Goku out of energy but enough to go Ssj blue. Vegeta getting a filler power up.

Kefla would never be as powerful as SSJ Blue Goku. Ever. Universe's 6 power growth was amazing but super ridiculous.

Manga had some good moment. Kale wrecking shop in intelligence and power. Kefla and Gohan would be equals in power imo.

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In the manga Kale wiped the floor with Goku Blue and Golden Frieza, but the fusion with the gifted Caulifla worfs to Gohan yet this makes sense?

 

[shark97]

i understood maybe three words of that thread title

 

[Skyebaron]

A Tournament of Power and Black Arcs need Kai treatment. Super has mostly been shit.

 

[L Thammy]

Yes, this is a fanfic writer so desperate to copy anything from Z, ANYTHING, without even the slightest self awareness. And yes, it's a popular fandom meme that Goku healed Cell and that was dumb AND YES it is fun to point it out but JESUS H. CHRIST in the original manga it happened because Goku was fully confident in Gohan!!

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Beyond that, he got chewed out by Piccolo for not understanding that his son isn't here to enjoy a good fight, he's there to beat the bad guy. Goku wasn't just being nice and healing anyone who asked, he didn't understand that other people aren't the same way he was, and he was told his mistake.

 

[SageShinigami]

I think maybe the issue here for me is that they looked like jobbers when they lost, and also that the characters they were up against were mostly uninteresting.
Additionally, usually when shounen does that stuff with side characters, it either has that "Go on ahead, I'll take care of this" bit (e.g. Naruto's Sasuke rescue arc) or that the main character is incapacitated (Namek arc in DBZ, Arlong and such in One Piece).

Here it didn't feel like either. Most of the time Goku or Vegeta were just off screen doing whatever, they could've just bonked almost everyone in a second (if we stayed true to power levels anyway).
Additionally other than Roshi and Gohan which you mentioned the rest were tossed aside. Roshi's was dumb because they could've at least have him die, you have like five sets of dragonballs!

That makes me think: no one actually died in Super, did they?
I'm also pissed at Whis being just able to revive people willy-nilly. When you need to use the dragonballs at least there's a built-in delay (and the kill the creator "escape route"), now it's just whatever.

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They look like jobbers? LOL. As compared to...every other saga where they look like garbage? Like, normally they do fuck all. Defeating anyone anyone at all is infinitely better than that.

And you're not going to have the thing you're talking about because this isn't about that. This is a tournament arc, where the main characters can't beat everyone. Goku and Vegeta are facing the heavy hitters, and everyone else is doing their job fighting other opponents.

Piccolo, Roshi, Gohan, Android 17, Android 18, Goku, and Vegeta all had great moments throughout the tournament. The only people who got hoed were Tien (that sniper battle was the only moment of glory he got) and Krillin.

Not killing anyone in Super is actually good. Because you do have a way to revive people so there's really just no point in killing people anymore.