Going by FF naming conventions, why was Versus XIII even an XIII game to begin with?

[Phendrift]

Like i know it's one of the most famous "lost projects" ever, but honestly it becoming XV made more sense to me than it staying an XIII game

if an FF is tied to the same world, they'll all be under that number umbrella, like X-2 being a direct sequel in the same world as X.

Yet Versus XIII shared none of the characters or world of XIII. It was literally it's own FF in its own universe. Nothing about Lightning, Cocoon, Pulse etc.

Was the extremely loose FNC connection really enough to break the naming conventions like that?

 

[ArchedThunder]

Marketing.

 

[TubaZef]

It was probably closer to XIII before it got changed to XV

 

[DNAbro]

It wasn't supposed to be the next big FF game. Like FFXIII Agito was a thing before it became Type-O.

 

[Genz]

The initial announcement had 4 games : FFXIII, Versus, Agito (became Type-0) and Haeresis (disappeared).
And the idea was probably to have even more games afterward, all with the "Fabula Nova Crystallis" mythology in background.

 

[Dreamboum]

Fabula Nova Crystallis shared the same mythology. Etro was supposed the driving force between the games.

In other words, it was a marketing plan by using what they learned from the Compilation of FF7. They just didn't realize that people needs to like the first game in your compilation before making more of them.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Yet Versus XIII shared none of the characters or world of XIII. It was literally it's own FF in its own universe. Nothing about Lightning, Cocoon, Pulse etc.

Was the extremely loose FNC connection really enough to break the naming conventions like that?

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There were still going to be Fal'cie in it. Just interpreted in different ways. And the Goddess Etro was a huge part of Versus' story as well.

 

[ILikeFeet]

it was a Fabula Nova Crystalis game alongside Type 0

 

[Zombegoast]

Same universe like Type 0

 

[Phendrift]

Fabula Nova Crystallis shared the same mythology. Etro was supposed the driving force between the games.

In other words, it was a marketing plan by using what they learned from the Compilation of FF7. They just didn't realize that people needs to like the first game in your compilation before making more of them.

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i suppose that makes sense but even with the compilation, you can tell there's a clear history between the games and a timeline and that they all take place in the same world


nothing about XIII and VsXIII looked similar at all it was completely different universes, it seemed destined to lose the title

 

[Phendrift]

There were still going to be Fal'cie in it. Just interpreted in different ways. And the Goddess Etro was a huge part of Versus' story as well.

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I haven't finished XV but there's still FNC stuff in it right?

 

[Deleted member 81119]

FF naming conventions aren't set in stone. Plus there's not been another example of a game in the series being set in a different world but with the same mythos.

Phendrift nope. All FNC stuff is gone from FFXV

 

[Beth Cyra]

Nothing stops two FF's from being in the same universe. We haven't had it yet* but it absolutely will happen eventually.

* Also depends on how much you take Nojima's word as Canon, as he feels VII and X are connected by universe anyway.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

I haven't finished XV but there's still FNC stuff in it right?

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In the absolute faintest possible way. Etro only exists as background lore now.

 

[davepoobond]

Shared mythology. Other than that who knows.

 

[Yuntu]

i suppose that makes sense but even with the compilation, you can tell there's a clear history between the games and a timeline and that they all take place in the same world


nothing about XIII and VsXIII looked similar at all it was completely different universes, it seemed destined to lose the title

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The mythos was supposed to be same as they said, and it wasn't supposed to be a mainline title so I attached it to one for more visibility. At the time it seemed logical, no one knew then that it would go into development hell and expand way beyond its original scope.

 

[behOemoth]

They tried to make a franchise with that number like FF7 is today and the common denominator would have been the Goddess in FF XV's Amano keyart and the crystals. However, every project had problems and the plan was scrapped.

 

[Deleted member 81119]

In the absolute faintest possible way. Etro only exists as background lore now.

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Etro is not part of the lore of XV at all. There are no FNC connections, just things that you can see were adapted: like Bahamut from Barthandelus, Daemons from Cieth, Starscourge from chaos.

 

[Joni]

Nothing stops two FF's from being in the same universe. We haven't had it yet* but it absolutely will happen eventually.

* Also depends on how much you take Nojima's word as Canon, as he feels VII and X are connected by universe anyway.

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Final Fantasy Tactics and its sequels, Final Fantasy XII and Revenant Wings and even Vagrant Story share the same world. Lots of spin-offs in here, but still the concept of the same universe in seemingly unrelated titles.

 

[javiBear]

I think it was announced back when they were creating a shared universe for FF7 and they decided to make a shared universe with the upcoming XIII. Or maybe I got the timeline all jumbled up? I'm not really sure, but a fucked up timeline would fit since this is a FF thread.

 

[ILikeFeet]

i suppose that makes sense but even with the compilation, you can tell there's a clear history between the games and a timeline and that they all take place in the same world


nothing about XIII and VsXIII looked similar at all it was completely different universes, it seemed destined to lose the title

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it didn't need to. it was kinda a multiverse thing with the gods occupying their own area and the three games being stuff they controlled

 

[Phendrift]

The mythos was supposed to be same as they said, and it wasn't supposed to be a mainline title so I attached it to one for more visibility. At the time it seemed logical, no one knew then that it would go into development hell and expand way beyond its original scope.

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i guess that's the other thing, it absolutely looked like it had the presentation of a mainline title, like it was going to be a big budget affair. So making it a spin-off just seemed weird.

Like it could've just as easily been a "we're working on VIII and IX at the same time and releasing them close together" situation.

 

[PersianPrince]

We don't really know what FF versus XIII was going to be or what "versus" or "XIII" would symbolize in the game. I agree it's a strange name but I'm sure there was a reason for it.

Also, Tetsuya Nomura has been known to have strange names for his games (Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days). This just seems on par with his other works.

 

[Beth Cyra]

I think it was announced back when they were creating a shared universe for FF7 and they decided to make a shared universe with the upcoming XIII. Or maybe I got the timeline all jumbled up? I'm not really sure, but a fucked up timeline would fit since this is a FF thread.

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VII and XIII are not connected on any story line level at all.

Lightning was designed to be a female take on Cloud Strife, and she gets a Cloud based outfit LR but neither are actually related to Cloud.

X and VII are connected though some fans absolutely will deny it's actually canon.

 

[sir_crocodile]

peak off the rails square

 

[KeyChainDude]

The game was meant to be part of the same mythos of the Fabula Nova Crystallis from XIII, but be the opposite of XIII in the sense of breaking the series established traditions (more open-world, gameplay in real time, darker and more mature story, supposed to mix fantasy with elements from the real life). Hence the "Versus".

 

[Deleted member 81119]

Instead of asking "why didn't they give it a mainline number if it's effectively a mainline game?" think about it from the opposite perspective: "why should they give it a mainline number just because its effectively a mainline game?".

Like....why should they? Why not call it Versus XIII? Why is giving it a straight Roman numeral better? It's not, is the answer.

 

[Ayirek]

i guess that's the other thing, it absolutely looked like it had the presentation of a mainline title, like it was going to be a big budget affair. So making it a spin-off just seemed weird.

Like it could've just as easily been a "we're working on VIII and IX at the same time and releasing them close together" situation.

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IIRC it's themes we're considered too dark for it to be a mainline FF. But announcing multiple mainline titles at once has happened. IX, X and XI were announced in the same presentation, weren't they?

 

[The Unsent]

I guess a bit like the Cloverfield series, fans would over analyse it and guess what the thematic connections would be between the games. I guess their logic is; if XIII was a great success, it could have generated more viral buzz and interest throughout these games.

 

[Phendrift]

IIRC it's themes we're considered too dark for it to be a mainline FF. But announcing multiple mainline titles at once has happened. IX, X and XI were announced in the same presentation, weren't they?

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Yes I'm pretty sure, and IX and VIII were developed at the same time and released super close to eachother. Kinda crazy looking back lol

 

[Phendrift]

Instead of asking "why didn't they give it a mainline number if it's effectively a mainline game?" think about it from the opposite perspective: "why should they give it a mainline number just because its effectively a mainline game?".

Like....why should they? Why not call it Versus XIII? Why is giving it a straight Roman numeral better? It's not, is the answer.

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Its not better or worse, just confusing to me going by the series' history

 

[Crossing Eden]

peak off the rails square

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Statues that cried blood in a CG trailer that gave AMV creators years worth of content. 15 years ago goddamn. And now somehow that shit is getting put in Kingdom Hearts. When it originally a FF game with kingdom hearts gameplay.

 

[SunKing]

They were trying to make another Compilation of Final Fantasy VII type subseries with XIII. Hence, Fabula Nova Crystallis.

 

[javiBear]

VII and XIII are not connected on any story line level at all.

Lightning was designed to be a female take on Cloud Strife, and she gets a Cloud based outfit LR but neither are actually related to Cloud.

X and VII are connected though some fans absolutely will deny it's actually canon.

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I rushed my message before clarifying it; i meant to say that they built a shared universe for XIII after they saw success of the FF7 universe, not that the two games are connected.

 

[Ruisu]

Mostly shared lore and setting elements. I'm more familiar with Type-0 than XIII (another game in that's part of Fabula Nova Crysalis), but even the final version of XV had the whole crystal guiding a nation and the magitek army badguys that Type-0 has for example.

 

[Quinton]

Love ya, Phendrift, but I simply must know:

an XIII game

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Do you pronounce XIII "ecks-aye-aye-aye"?

 

[Phendrift]

Love ya, Phendrift, but I simply must know:



Do you pronounce XIII "ecks-aye-aye-aye"?

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in my head I absolutely do 😭😭

 

[DiipuSurotu]

The initial announcement had 4 games : FFXIII, Versus, Agito (became Type-0) and Haeresis (disappeared).
And the idea was probably to have even more games afterward, all with the "Fabula Nova Crystallis" mythology in background.

Click to shrink...

The initial announcement had 3 games. They never announced Haeresis (which we only know about thanks to the trademark filing)

 

[Beth Cyra]

I rushed my message before clarifying it; i meant to say that they built a shared universe for XIII after they saw success of the FF7 universe, not that the two games are connected.

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Ahh my bad my bad.

Totally get ya.

 

[Phendrift]

I guess a funny thing is is that even though the first shared universe/XIII compilation they revealed failed, we did still end up getting three XIII games lol

 

[Dragmire]

I think you might get your answer here:

The Official SQUARE ENIX Website

Find all the latest news and updates about your favourite games and upcoming releases.

www.square-enix.com

In short, FNC had XIII in the logo and according to SE it was "the new tale of the crystal," is made up of several different titles based on variations of the FINAL FANTASY XIII universe." When SE had a conference and showed a video of the myth (after FFXIII released. ha) is when they dropped XIII from the logo. If Versus didn't turn to XV , it might of been just FF Versus or something. haha

 

[Quinton]

in my head I absolutely do 😭😭

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I - I'll respect it!

 

[Beth Cyra]

The initial announcement had 3 games. They never announced Haeresis (which we only know about thanks to the trademark filing)

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This.

And also of note while Agito XIII became Type O, Final Fantasy Agito did get a game release (dropped XIII) that was connected to Type O.

So there did end up being 4 games that spawned out of the original 3.

 

[Phendrift]

I think you might get your answer here:

The Official SQUARE ENIX Website

Find all the latest news and updates about your favourite games and upcoming releases.

www.square-enix.com

In short, FNC had XIII in the logo and according to SE it was "the new tale of the crystal," is made up of several different titles based on variations of the FINAL FANTASY XIII universe." When SE had a conference and showed a video of the myth (after FFXIII released. ha) is when they dropped XIII from the logo. If Versus didn't turn to XV , it might of been just FF Versus or something. haha

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Definitely an interesting explanation, I guess that's a reason why people were so hyped back then. Like they set up the possibility that it was a really expansive universe and that the games could connect in cool ways

 

[Phendrift]

I - I'll respect it!

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It's hard for my brain to not for some reason lol

Like especially for some specifically "Final Fantasy ecks-two" sounds way better to me than "ten-two"

 

[Kamek]

They all followed the FNC mythos.

 

[Quinton]

It's hard for my brain to not for some reason lol

Like especially for some specifically "Final Fantasy ecks-two" sounds way better to me than "ten-two"

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I have noticed that a lot of folks list the first nine mainline FFs as FF1, FF2, FF3, and so on, but then go with FFX and FFX-2. Then FF12, FF13, FF14, FF15. It's amusing. I figure it's the same deal for you!

 

[Lime Blockade]

Statues that cried blood in a CG trailer that gave AMV creators years worth of content. 15 years ago goddamn. And now somehow that shit is getting put in Kingdom Hearts. When it originally a FF game with kingdom hearts gameplay.

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To this very day I'm sad that gameplay concept didn't happen. The biggest reason I was looking forward to VersusXIII was because of the Kingdom Hearts styled gameplay.

 

[The Last One]

The initial announcement had 4 games : FFXIII, Versus, Agito (became Type-0) and Haeresis (disappeared).
And the idea was probably to have even more games afterward, all with the "Fabula Nova Crystallis" mythology in background.

Click to shrink...

I always thought that Haeresis became FF XIV.

 

[skeezx]

at some point SE looked at the "mainline" FF sales and wanted to get more bang for the buck. like instead of releasing one mega seller every 3-ish years make several without the stigma of it being a spinoff or whatever

crazy thing is, if they actually stuck to the landing they could have pulled it off (imo)