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God of War: Raising Kratos |OT| How to make a Sandwhich Part II (feature length God of War 2018 documentary)
- Thread starter Kenzodielocke
- Start date
Wasn't a big fan of the doc, honestly. Found it to be vague and not as insightful or detailed as the ones made about the past God of War games or Noclip's work. Those earlier GoW ones were so raw and from the trenches.
Man, Cory Barlog seems like a great team leader, though.
Man, Cory Barlog seems like a great team leader, though.
The question this documentary keeps coming back to is, is it worth the sacrifice? Not even counting the crunch, is it worth five years of your life, and late nights and missing your family, having to skip time with friends, to devote yourself to something that you're not even sure will be successful in the end?
I'd say yes. The greatest works of art, or the most amazing scientific breakthroughs or sporting achievements never came easily. We do it because we have to, because we want to do something great.
I'd say yes. The greatest works of art, or the most amazing scientific breakthroughs or sporting achievements never came easily. We do it because we have to, because we want to do something great.
Another excellent documentary from Sony. I love how honest they were about the project, the ups and downs.
I really enjoyed it. I liked that they showed some of those really hard moments. The QA testing and floating tree was funny.
I want something like this for Bend.
It really makes the pettiness some people on forums display look ridiculous. Making games is hard. Developers work very hard to get it right. Even if you don't end up liking a project, I think there is a way to express that while still being respectful of the devs. I think we all can work on doing that better.
I want something like this for Bend.
It really makes the pettiness some people on forums display look ridiculous. Making games is hard. Developers work very hard to get it right. Even if you don't end up liking a project, I think there is a way to express that while still being respectful of the devs. I think we all can work on doing that better.
Cool, thanks for that. He was saying Baldur was also really hard to cast. Surprised the Raising Kratos doc didn't show anything about that.
I wish we could see the developers more. Like their view on the progression of the game and how happy they were at the reception. We do get some of that but most of the reactions were from the leaders.
Also, this is a great feminist documentary. Without insisting and bragging about this aspect, it shows women who are successful and absolutely key to the success of a venture in a world that is often very men centric and misogynistic. Yes I'm looking at you NRS.
Also, this is a great feminist documentary. Without insisting and bragging about this aspect, it shows women who are successful and absolutely key to the success of a venture in a world that is often very men centric and misogynistic. Yes I'm looking at you NRS.
So with regards to the full length documentary as opposed to the GDC talks, the former is about showing multiple aspects human components pertaining to a AAA big budget project as opposed to the GDC talks that are far more technologically inclined.
For things like casting and cutbacks, as someone said earlier, the documentary does not dwell on cut content at all (aside from their cancelled project) because elements from them could be incorporated into the next entry.
Not sure if anyone mentioned it yet but the art book is available @ https://www.darkhorse.com/Books/3000-808/The-Art-of-God-of-War-HC
That was a moving documentary. Congrats again SSM, it was worth all the years of labor. Cory, I'll buy any game you make.
Indeed.
I will be making one with smoother transitions soon (there are very small interstitial portions missing in the documentary which result in these jump cuts).
Bless the iconic sandwich reference in the OT title! Ah, the memories.
I finally got to watch the documentary, and I loved it. It was really engaging, and a great successor to the previous GoW documentaries. (It seems like someone's uploaded GoW2's here, which is worth a watch if you haven't seen it. You also see Cory's iconic sandwich.) The documentary was insightful and emotional experience, and I could have happily watched another two hours of it. I would have loved to have see more of the concept art and day to day development process like with the previous doc, but similar to TLoU doc, it was also really interesting to hear the perspectives of the actors, and their own personal resonance with the project.
As with the other GoW documentaries, particularly GoW2, I really respect that this new documentary doesn't sugarcoat the whole process. Between this, the No Clip documentaries, and the Double Fine Adventure series, it's really important to get an unromanticized view of the industry, especially considering all that's come out recently regarding the treatment of devs, whether it be Riot, Bioware, Rockstar, NetherRealm, etc.
Thank you for this link - it seems like it'll be a great watch in general, but I'd always wondered what had happened with Kratos' recasting. It's fascinating to know they tried really hard to make T. C. Carson work, and had gone through the process for Ascension, but for various reasons, it would have ultimately been too expensive to go through the same process again for the new game. (I had no idea Carson had a dancer background, that's amazing.) Judge ended up giving an absolutely extraordinary performance as Kratos, so it certainly worked out for the game, though I'm sorry that Carson is no longer involved. I presume must have been rough for him to be recast.
Absolutely this. For all the blood, sweat, and tears, GoW ultimately ended up having a happy ending, having both strong sales and being beloved critically. Other devs (and their familes) go through the exact same process, but often don't get the same happy ending and pay-off for all that pain and sacrifice - and then we speak so flippantly about it all on the internet. I absolutely know better, and yet I'm still flippant from time to time. The documentary was certainly humbling.
Yes, it was wonderful to see. The amount of women at SSM has certainly grown considerably since the first GoW doc, and it's incredible to see the journey Shannon Studstill has been on. (I remember how exciting it was to see her being interviewed back in the first GoW doc as a senior producer. I'd seen so few women in senior roles at that point.) The importance of Yumi Yang and her work in the documentary was fantastic, too.
I finally got to watch the documentary, and I loved it. It was really engaging, and a great successor to the previous GoW documentaries. (It seems like someone's uploaded GoW2's here, which is worth a watch if you haven't seen it. You also see Cory's iconic sandwich.) The documentary was insightful and emotional experience, and I could have happily watched another two hours of it. I would have loved to have see more of the concept art and day to day development process like with the previous doc, but similar to TLoU doc, it was also really interesting to hear the perspectives of the actors, and their own personal resonance with the project.
As with the other GoW documentaries, particularly GoW2, I really respect that this new documentary doesn't sugarcoat the whole process. Between this, the No Clip documentaries, and the Double Fine Adventure series, it's really important to get an unromanticized view of the industry, especially considering all that's come out recently regarding the treatment of devs, whether it be Riot, Bioware, Rockstar, NetherRealm, etc.
Thank you for this link - it seems like it'll be a great watch in general, but I'd always wondered what had happened with Kratos' recasting. It's fascinating to know they tried really hard to make T. C. Carson work, and had gone through the process for Ascension, but for various reasons, it would have ultimately been too expensive to go through the same process again for the new game. (I had no idea Carson had a dancer background, that's amazing.) Judge ended up giving an absolutely extraordinary performance as Kratos, so it certainly worked out for the game, though I'm sorry that Carson is no longer involved. I presume must have been rough for him to be recast.
Absolutely this. For all the blood, sweat, and tears, GoW ultimately ended up having a happy ending, having both strong sales and being beloved critically. Other devs (and their familes) go through the exact same process, but often don't get the same happy ending and pay-off for all that pain and sacrifice - and then we speak so flippantly about it all on the internet. I absolutely know better, and yet I'm still flippant from time to time. The documentary was certainly humbling.
Yes, it was wonderful to see. The amount of women at SSM has certainly grown considerably since the first GoW doc, and it's incredible to see the journey Shannon Studstill has been on. (I remember how exciting it was to see her being interviewed back in the first GoW doc as a senior producer. I'd seen so few women in senior roles at that point.) The importance of Yumi Yang and her work in the documentary was fantastic, too.
Great Docu! Really liked it and it felt good that they spoke about the cancelled project. A very sad part was when Chris Judge talked about his children and Shannon about his family... This business is tough dude.
I met Cory at Devcom last year. He's a great person
I met Cory at Devcom last year. He's a great person
This was a very in-depth documentary and one that every gamer should watch and dissect. Game development of any kind is a form of expression, vulnerability, sacrifice, and risk. I've seen first hand marriages end, mental and physical breakdowns, a friend pass away, and too many studio closures and layoffs. What we do to create the software so many hold dear to themselves isn't without it's difficult journey. The ones that are truly groundbreaking, special, and worth that journey have very real costs.
This documentary illustrates that journey perfectly, the highs, the lows, the doubts, the cliff that comes towards the finish line that either soars or crumbles. It's a unique, rewarding, sacrificing, profession; yet most who do it wouldn't want to do anything else.
This documentary illustrates that journey perfectly, the highs, the lows, the doubts, the cliff that comes towards the finish line that either soars or crumbles. It's a unique, rewarding, sacrificing, profession; yet most who do it wouldn't want to do anything else.
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Yabberwocky You are welcome and yea, in retrospect, it is amazing how well it all turned out. As for TC Carson, I hope he finds another project worthy of his skills.
JaeCryo Here is a better version. Unfortunately, there is still a few frames missing near the end. I could not find them anywhere.
JaeCryo Here is a better version. Unfortunately, there is still a few frames missing near the end. I could not find them anywhere.
I agree. Even for Bioware, the devs work very hard and the leadership will make or break them. DG was probably concepted as open world when open world was relatively novel. By the time it released, everything is an open world. No doubt the studio had it struggles given their size but they stuck to it and Sony gave them a lot of time. Does it have issues? Sure, every game does. But the developers worked their butts off for 7 years, it wasn't easy but they released it. Some people take what they accomplished for granted.
E3 demos are (or any executive high level type demo) a bit of a blessing and a curse. It's truly a test of the team to iron out enough of the product to achieve a finalized piece of a larger puzzle; focusing on a portion of the game to validate the design, visuals, gameplay systems, camera, collision, stability, technical benchmarks, and general playability. It's a great gut check and exposes a lot of what is working, and what isn't. It helps determine scope for the remainder of the development, and if the product will get to the finish line with the production staff that is in place, or if gaps in product or development team need to be addressed.
When we had our E3 Demo for M.A.G. there were so many things that could of gone wrong. The build we ran with was only burned to discs the night before, and flown to E3 just hours before the show. It's an amazing thing when it comes together, gamers get something truly special, the efforts, late nights, and sacrifices become justified. Yet when it doesn't come together you have something like Socom 4. A game confused about what it's audience wanted, and a development troubled from the start, bottlenecked by tech that was built for M.A.G. and resources that were split between the projects meaning we fell just short of the goal line of something truly groundbreaking and memorable as what God of War will become.
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Amazing stuff,
this was less about the game and more about the people, as it should be.
Chris Judge and Sunny have such great chemistry,
Cory was tops but my MVP has to be Shannon, I just want to give her a big ol hug. Her and Yumi kept Corey and the team from falling apart.
this was less about the game and more about the people, as it should be.
Chris Judge and Sunny have such great chemistry,
Cory was tops but my MVP has to be Shannon, I just want to give her a big ol hug. Her and Yumi kept Corey and the team from falling apart.
I recall Santa Monica Studio employees called Cory a "fearless leader" on this game.
Seeing this doc, I understand now.
It was really massively tantamount to take the role for the new game...
Seeing this doc, I understand now.
It was really massively tantamount to take the role for the new game...
Thanks for your insight. I can see the positive aspects to it now that you've outlined it. I am glad there is positivity to go along with all the hard work.
Do you think these digital events that some companies are moving toward might help ease the pressure a bit or is it still pretty much the same? I don't know if since they generally announce them a couple days before they air might mean that developers have a bit more flexibility with deadlines or not.
We need more such documentaries to illustrate the human costs of game development.
Some heart-wrenching bits were in there.
Some heart-wrenching bits were in there.
Apparently he's the vice president of Sony WWS, so right under Yosp? It make sense if he oversee a bit of SSM especially as SSM is moving to new buildingHermen Hulst makes an appearance, had no idea until I read a comment
Just finished the game a couple of hours ago and then watched the documentary. Fantastic game, so deserving of GOTY 2018 and very moving documentary. As others have mentioned, I think it's good that the game focuses more on the people, the struggles, personal sacrificies, victories etc., than on the game itself. It's much more interesting (and heart-wrenching) to see the people behind the scenes and the massive amounts of work going into making a video game.
Hope we see more of these kinds of documentaries in the future. Helps dispel a lot of the myths and romantication of the industry.
Hope we see more of these kinds of documentaries in the future. Helps dispel a lot of the myths and romantication of the industry.
jeremy is a shy dude so i dont think he was a fan of doing the interviews and stuff
Not really. In a lot of companies, Vice President is a title given to people who are in charge of a specific area or division (for example, Phil Spencer is one of many Microsoft VPs). In WWS's case, the people right under Shu are the Senior VPs: Scott Rohde (WWS America), Michael Denny (WWS Europe) and Allan Becker (WWS Japan). The other VPs, like Herman, presumably report to their respective Senior VP. Also, while I don't know for sure, I'd guess all the studio heads (or at least the major ones like Shannon and Herman) are VPs of WWS.
The reason why Herman was there was probably just because they're part of the same company and share a lot of knowledge and information with one another. Apparently SSM and Guerrilla even have some kind of talent exchange program between the two studios.
Anyway, I watched the documentary tonight and absolutely loved it. It does a great job showing how much thought and effort went into the game and how much Cory had to fight for his vision. Really makes me want to replay it.
Finally watch it and damn didnt thought it having so many feels.
Their hard work did create something so amazing that the sequel is my most anticipated game.
Their hard work did create something so amazing that the sequel is my most anticipated game.
That was a worthwhile watch. Makes me want to play through it again.
I'm surprised though that they didn't really talk about the game being one single take and the unique challenges from that.
The bit where they were watching the focus testers was interesting too.
I'm surprised though that they didn't really talk about the game being one single take and the unique challenges from that.
The bit where they were watching the focus testers was interesting too.
Right. I mean look at Days Gone... I just wonder how they felt when they clicked on Metacritic. They didn't get to have the same reaction that Cory did. I'm sure they worked every bit as hard, and every bit as long (probably even longer... it was 7 years since their last game). While general critic response has been somewhat mixed, it seems fan reaction is a bit more positive, so I hope they take comfort and pride in that.
The dragon falling off the world and floating log glitches were great, as was Cory's reaction to OP freezer.
I really enjoyed hearing Asad's reaction to the move to April 20. "No one will remember the date shifts." I mean, I wouldn't have minded if it were ready for release in March, but yeah.
I really enjoyed hearing Asad's reaction to the move to April 20. "No one will remember the date shifts." I mean, I wouldn't have minded if it were ready for release in March, but yeah.
I just got to the end of this and thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm kinda fascinated (and tickled pink) that a bunch of the SSM members watched the Easy Allies' review at the studio and cheered when the score appeared at the end. I guess Cory and company put a lot of stock in those guys' opinion. I wish we could have seen the whole footage of that.
We've got a lot of EZA fans at the studio. And admittedly there's nothing quite like having a thing you made be described as something "that should be experienced by every human on earth" (even if that might be a tad of the Huber hype coming through)
I really enjoyed this. When yin and yang were asked about personal sacrifices that was tough. Respect to the various team members putting themselves out there.
Huber hype is the best hype. He like that time Homer Simpson became restaurant critic and in his opinion all the restaurants had great food.
There should be more documentaries like this, maybe more people would start to understand what it takes to make games and stop taking them for granted.
It hurts to see how much people sacrifice their family time for work. It's something I've never allowed myself to fall into. Kids grow up so fast and every moment you miss you never get back.
It hurts to see how much people sacrifice their family time for work. It's something I've never allowed myself to fall into. Kids grow up so fast and every moment you miss you never get back.
Now that you guys are working on God of War 2, I sincerely hope the cycle doesn't begin again and the studio finds itself enduring the same hardships once more. That was one of my more prominent thoughts when watching the documentary.
I really really loved that documentary, but also it was painful to watch at times. I really really really hope that Santa Monica will be able to find a better balance, and that all of those hard-working people that brought us joy in 2018, will have a much pleasant development time and much less suffering as well. Game devs gotta take care of themselves, of their families, of their mental and physical health as well, please keep that in mind. I don't want GoW2 if this means shortening the lifespan of devs, honestly truly. I love y'all guys, take care.