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God of War is probably the boldest, most radical reimagining of an established series ever
- Thread starter Master Chuuster
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But your opening post is talking about bold in the context of other established series like Resident Evil, Metroid, Zelda, Mario.Either way, I still feel like it's less bold for a Sony series because they are doing what other Sony studios are doing. Thats not to say there isn't some boldness to it, throwing out the combat of the old games is a risk, but I think Ascension showed that people were tired of the past games combat and wanted something different.
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Would have mentioned this if I hadn't made this thread :P
But yeah, another huge, huge reinvention.
No.
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And? My point is still series-centric. Not sure why this is so hard to understand. I'm saying GoW is a bolder reinvention for the GoW franchise than, say, BotW is for the Zelda franchise.
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15 hours in and he hasn't killed him and stuck his ashes to his skin yet.
Father of the year.
Yes, because I'm sure that's the only reason as to why you're enjoying the game. Come on man.
We're at peak enthusiasm for the game now before it dies down a bit in a few weeks time. People tend to get caught in the moment just after the launch of a big game and say some pretty crazy stuff.
I just think you should ask the question next month once the hype dust settles a little bit.
I said it in the OT and may even make a thread about it in a month or so but the Leviathan Axe is going to be the most iconic weapon of this generation. Its so incredibly well realized in every aspect from the actual meaty weighty but still very nuanced combat to the incredible use of the throw and recall feature to even the audiovisual elements of it are top notch.
BOTW turns all content post tutorial into optional content. The structure of God of War 4 is still very similar to the older games. The biggest changes are the shift to a more Uncharted/TLOU cinematic camera, the loot system, and the addition of sidequests.
A lot of what's in the game was already in the series since the first God of War
I think this game is amazing and is a huge departure from all previous GoW games. The comparisons to the Last of Us sounds ridiculous to me as I could only play that game for a couple hours and this game I've already played for about 10 hours in the last 24 hours. I'm sure there are some very shallow comparisons to be made, but I believe that has more to do with modern game design/polish over all then actual gameplay similarities. The pacing is vastly different just to name one very obvious difference that sets it leagues apart from the Last of Us.
While there might be a dozen other games that have made transformations as big or as close to as big, I think people are really downplaying what this game is doing.
Resident Evil 4
World of Warcraft
Metroid Prime
All did similar things so I think it's ridiculous to place the new God of War game above them in terms of reinvention, but I mean the game's definitely up there. Top 10-20-50 depending on what other games you consider have reinvented themselves. I personally don't think Breath of the Wild would be as high as the new God of War in terms of reinvention, but maybe higher in terms of "boldness." I really wouldn't put OoT as being a reinvention, but it did do bold things. I just feel like everyone is out to claim GoW is this amazing masterpiece or the nay-sayers are trying to deny it's true accomplishments.
On my personal list it's going to be a top 10 GotG assuming it stays THIS GOOD, but I mean, it isn't doing anything profoundly different from other games, but it is pretty profoundly different from other GoW games.
Not gonna lie though, it's mind boggling that some people actively prefer the button mashy hack-n-slash nature of the original GoW games to something like this. I mean, to each their own, but man, those games were brain dead when it came to combat with exception to a few bosses and challenge like side objectives. I just don't think combat like that in a world where Platinum is king would play that well by today's standards.
While there might be a dozen other games that have made transformations as big or as close to as big, I think people are really downplaying what this game is doing.
Resident Evil 4
World of Warcraft
Metroid Prime
All did similar things so I think it's ridiculous to place the new God of War game above them in terms of reinvention, but I mean the game's definitely up there. Top 10-20-50 depending on what other games you consider have reinvented themselves. I personally don't think Breath of the Wild would be as high as the new God of War in terms of reinvention, but maybe higher in terms of "boldness." I really wouldn't put OoT as being a reinvention, but it did do bold things. I just feel like everyone is out to claim GoW is this amazing masterpiece or the nay-sayers are trying to deny it's true accomplishments.
On my personal list it's going to be a top 10 GotG assuming it stays THIS GOOD, but I mean, it isn't doing anything profoundly different from other games, but it is pretty profoundly different from other GoW games.
Not gonna lie though, it's mind boggling that some people actively prefer the button mashy hack-n-slash nature of the original GoW games to something like this. I mean, to each their own, but man, those games were brain dead when it came to combat with exception to a few bosses and challenge like side objectives. I just don't think combat like that in a world where Platinum is king would play that well by today's standards.
Hopefully soon we will be able to have a real conversation about this game that's not overloaded with hype. I want to discuss it but this constant fanboying about this game reinventing gaming is out of control. This is a very well made game, we don't have to exaggerate superlatives, or act like this is the most innovative game to ever come out. It borrows gameplay from other games that are popular right now, it borrows themes that are very popular with critics right now.
Can we just be realistic about the game? It will still be a great accomplishment and maybe the best current all around game of it's type without all this extra stuff. I don't understand how this camera was not criticized more. It's too tight. Comparing this game's combat to the greats like Bayonetta and Devil may cry 3 is insane as well. It's good but the camera alone stops it from reaching those heights. I still think Ninja Gaiden Black has the GOAT combat.
Can we just be realistic about the game? It will still be a great accomplishment and maybe the best current all around game of it's type without all this extra stuff. I don't understand how this camera was not criticized more. It's too tight. Comparing this game's combat to the greats like Bayonetta and Devil may cry 3 is insane as well. It's good but the camera alone stops it from reaching those heights. I still think Ninja Gaiden Black has the GOAT combat.
That's because its better to compare the camera and combat to God Hand, not DMC or Bayonetta.
Yeah I agree, I love that Ellie, a gay woman, is gonna be the star of such a huge game. I still wish we had some gay male protagonist in these AAA games, but I'm still happy we are getting this.
Sam would work in small doses, but not as the partner for the entire game. Maybe a Chloe/Cutter adventure?
Is Ellie gay or bi? I kind of felt like she had a crush on Sam as well.
The camera in old GoW games is way more cinematic than Uncharted/TLOU/new GoW. You don't have any control over it and it shows things it wants to show instead of what you want to see, that's like the textbook definition of cinematic.
I'll have to disagree. It's a good game, and it is clearly a shift for the series in various ways, but it's not as huge as other games. Tonally it's a big shift. It's actually mature. Not "Rated M for Mature". And that's great. But the core gameplay loop is nearly identical. Combat focusing on relatively simple combos, while traveling down essentially linear paths with a few hidden offshoots to find chests containing collectibles for powerups. Break up the combat with a puzzle or set piece or boss battle. Then on to the next area. Yes, this game has some side quests that the other games didn't have, and you can explore around a little due to the central lake. But once you get out of your boat the areas follow the same GoW structure.
There's differences, of course. I won't deny them. But this isn't on the same level as other games like BotW or a 2D to 3D transition.
And I certainly wouldn't call it bold. It's very much in line with what's popular right now. Even the TLoU/Logan styled story.
I really enjoyed it. I think it's great, and I'm gonna have fun finishing up the side quests. But I think the OP is pretty big hyperbole.
There's differences, of course. I won't deny them. But this isn't on the same level as other games like BotW or a 2D to 3D transition.
And I certainly wouldn't call it bold. It's very much in line with what's popular right now. Even the TLoU/Logan styled story.
I really enjoyed it. I think it's great, and I'm gonna have fun finishing up the side quests. But I think the OP is pretty big hyperbole.
That's why I prefaced it with a "Uncharted/TLOU" style cinematic camera. The game has multiple somewhat long forced walking sections, the ability to jump is removed and is now a context sensitive button press (I suppose Uncharted let's you jump). The camera is a shift in that direction.
To me, this game directly took the "walking simulator, climbing simulator, kill room, minor puzzle, rinse repeat" style of gameplay directly from TLOU/Uncharted. The first time I hoisted my son on top of a ledge to drop down a chain for me to climb while we carried on our conversation I thought it was a funny nod and a bit on the nose, but after the fourth time this exact thing happened I thought "come on Sony, not EVERY GAME has to be Uncharted/TLOU......"
Ehhh it's better to compare to your contemporaries. If you're claiming to be the best, it's the best, not just the best of too tight camera combat.
I feel Warcraft 3 to WoW was a far bigger departure. I'd also say BotW is arguable as well and worthy of having a discussion of how much it changed the formula.
Heck I'd argue Mario 64 changing from a focus on smaller quick levels to larger, exploration focused was a huge radical change for the Mario formula.
All these games and more deserve credit for taking massive risks with well established, popular, and successful IP and changing things up in significant ways.
Heck I'd argue Mario 64 changing from a focus on smaller quick levels to larger, exploration focused was a huge radical change for the Mario formula.
All these games and more deserve credit for taking massive risks with well established, popular, and successful IP and changing things up in significant ways.
Sorry, but this is one of the most hyperbolic things I've ever read, which I guess is pretty common around these kinds of launch windows and the hype and excitement that results.
Having played GOW, I disagree strongly that it's either the "boldest" or most "radical" reimagining of a series- not even close. Yes, it's an excellent game with incredible production values that that IS a pretty massive change in many respects compared to previous entries. But it's nowhere near the "boldest" nor the most radical. The GOW formula was getting pretty tired after several entries of pretty much the same mechanics and style. This newest one is ambitious to be sure, but I'm not sure it's that bold, considering there was almost everything to gain and not much to lose by switching up the formula a bit. It's also not that "radical", all things considered, and compared to the reimagining of other titles. BoTW is just one very recent an obvious example. Zelda is one of the most iconic and highest rated series in the world. BoTW was a much more radical change than GOW is, and it was a much bolder and riskier move to boot. Metroid Prime is another example. GOW, at the end of the day is GOW, taken to another level.
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I feel like the game is a radical departure from previous entries but not very bold if that makes sense. Its a cinematic over the shoulder action game with a well written story and characters. That's kinda Sony's MO these days.
I consider God Hand some of the best there is combat wise so I'd feel that is more than an apt comparison.
I really want to like the game, but I wish that story mode turned off level progressions, collectibles, money etc.
Prime felt so new yet so familiar. I don't know if it's a radical as GoW4 or Breath of the Wild, but I think it's certainly better than BotW; as in better re-imagining. BotW came close, though. Can't wait to get my hands on God of War; I played 1 and 2 as well as chains of olympus so I'm excited to experience the new GoW
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I would give it to Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat. No Kong Family, no Kremlings, high-score focused missions, Dread Kong, and all controlled by weird bongos.
Haven't played this game but of the games I have played I'd give this award to Mario 64 so far. I don't think many games come close there.
I was about to say the same. Switching from a 2D platformer to something radically different with 64 is a much larger change than making GoW's camera to over the shoulder and adding RPG elements.
But Mario is still Mario, while Kratos and the story around him completely change in God of War.
You have a point. While Zelda and RE4/7 have mechanical differences because they are in being sold to new people in new markets, the new God of War feels like it's actively trying to change the franchise and the character of Kratos as a whole. Being strong and crazy just doesn't work when you have to act human in front of your kid. It's not just the same character in a different genre, for me. It's basically a genre shift based on a character that has to change his ways. And some stuff in the game look like the team wanted to call out how Kratos was an asshole.
Sometimes, you kill innocent women by breaking their bones to open a door, but there are also times where you go on a trip with your son to fulfill your wife's last wish. It's interesting.
Sometimes, you kill innocent women by breaking their bones to open a door, but there are also times where you go on a trip with your son to fulfill your wife's last wish. It's interesting.
Super Metroid to Metroid Prime still holds that crown for me.
2D games and 3D games are so fundamentally different from each other (just in terms of navigating the game space) that they inherently have their own gameplay paradigms. No 3D to 3D evolution in any series is going to be able to compare with that.
2D Mario gameplay is not still 2D Mario gameplay in a 3D Mario game.
2D games and 3D games are so fundamentally different from each other (just in terms of navigating the game space) that they inherently have their own gameplay paradigms. No 3D to 3D evolution in any series is going to be able to compare with that.
2D Mario gameplay is not still 2D Mario gameplay in a 3D Mario game.
I think 2D to 3D shifts is something OP is not considering that is such an obviously radical departure. Apt comparisons would be Persona 3, RE4 and BOTW
What makes God of Watr standout though, is it makes the lore work. All god of War games star Kratos, but this one also transforms his lore without removing his past.
What makes God of Watr standout though, is it makes the lore work. All god of War games star Kratos, but this one also transforms his lore without removing his past.
Yeah, if the OP doesn't count 2D to 3D transitions, that's different. But if they do count, there simply can be no greater shift than those kinds of transitions.
But it isn't really and you are just enamored with the gane because it just came out. I love it too, it's amazing. But this is too much hyperbole.
God of War is still about and angry god/guy destroying a pantheon of gods. The shifts in story in gameplay aren't close to being the boldest of any series reinventions as you state. Not even BOTW would be top 10 in that list.
Things like Jungle Beat or Star Fox Adventures are bolder and bigger departures of the classic game because they actually changed the approach completely.
Honestly, I agree. It's getting a bit out of control. Every new highly anticipated game is heralded as some kind of milestone in gaming.
But whatever, it's bound to happen, so I guess it's best to just let the hype flow through you, lol
Zelda and RE4/7 also had major tone and character shifts as a result of the gameplay design changes.
Nitpicking and "why highly-rated game isn't *that* good" phase coming soon
Happened for BotW, HZD and Mario, so I expect to come to GoW fast and hard
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