"but he doesn't play defense" is an even dumber argument against tom brady than it would be against diego maradona
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GOAT in any sport: Tom Brady is going back to the Super Bowl, his 10th appearance, with the Bucs
- Thread starter Earvin Infinity
- Start date
"but he doesn't play defense" is an even dumber argument against tom brady than it would be against diego maradona
Ask an Australian, Indian, Pakistani, West Indian, South African, Sri Lankan, Bangladeshi, English or New Zealander and many will know who he is. That is a massive amount of the world's population, just in India alone.
US people tend to look inwards about these things, and this forum is US centric.
Brady completed the most (36) deep balls (20+ air yards) of any quarterback this season.
I hate Brady, especially since he's a Trumper, but denying the man as the greatest is ridiculous.
He has 6 rings. You don't like the rings argument? Congrats, he has most of the quarterback records in the book right now.
Forward like Messi or like you say, Maradona still explore like 8-10 kilo per game.
Meanwhile Brady playing role where its the least physical demanding outside than the kickers while also get the most credit. In the sport where team employ around 30 player and they banging, also apparently you must be extra careful with how you hit player in his role.
My english is not the best but I still want to mention the linearity of Brady's role if you really want to make outrageous claim across all sports.
Yeah he is. Who would've guessed people don't give a shit when it's their favourite sports player/team.
Best QB ever but to me not in any sport. Football is such a huge team sport and he doesnt play D.
Bill Russell and MJ is still on top for me with Lebron a close third.
Bill Russell and MJ is still on top for me with Lebron a close third.
Mahomes has demonstrated more talent in his first three seasons in the league than Brady has at any three year peak of his career. So Brady is certainly not the most talented QB to ever play.
He's the most accomplished/decorated and he's done it at a high level for the longest amount of time. The game has morphed into a pass heavy league. Other than his impressive number of rings, all his individual statistical records will fall over the next two decades. The rings might be surpassed as well, but that's much more doubtful.
Mahomes is a Dee Ford offsides from being in his third Super Bowl in three years starting.
He's the most accomplished/decorated and he's done it at a high level for the longest amount of time. The game has morphed into a pass heavy league. Other than his impressive number of rings, all his individual statistical records will fall over the next two decades. The rings might be surpassed as well, but that's much more doubtful.
Mahomes is a Dee Ford offsides from being in his third Super Bowl in three years starting.
I mean, yeah, you had Rodgers crying about how he was the actual GOAT recently. Even if you're discussing just the peak for Mahomes, he isn't even close in the conversation until we are talking about double digit years in the league with a consistent performance.
I'm not talking about peak Mahomes, as his entire career has been a peak higher than Brady has ever accomplished. That's my point. He's literally on a completely unprecedented trajectory in his first 3 seasons as a starter.
He's a "greater" player than Brady was ever at his very best. He doesn't have the same accolades and trophy chest yet that come with staying healthy over decades. Beating up on a shitty AFC East for decades helps, but the Chiefs have a similar stranglehold on the west currently.
Being a greater player without the accolades makes it kind of a moot point.
GOAT in all sports? Erm no!
GOAT in all football? He already was for the past four years. This NFC championship win just provides more separation between him and the rest. Specifically, if you still think that he is a 'system quarterback', now would be a good time to change your way of thinking.
GOAT in all football? He already was for the past four years. This NFC championship win just provides more separation between him and the rest. Specifically, if you still think that he is a 'system quarterback', now would be a good time to change your way of thinking.
Does it? He has more accolades at this stage in his career than Brady had.
If he retired today he wouldn't be considered a better player.
He's not retiring, he's aiming for another ring in two weeks. That's irrelevant, unless you consider his three seasons as outliers.
I think he's great, wouldn't call his performances to this point and outlier. Again, we would need to resume this discussion in about a decade or so.
If the chiefs win this year Mahomes will have won two Super Bowls in his first three years as a starter. Brady won two Super Bowls in his first three years as a starter (and then won a third in his fourth year). He has not achieved greater heights than Brady. He is simply on the same pace as Brady, and Brady continued that level of success for 20 years.
Mahomes' first three years are better than any stretch in Brady's career? In 2016, 2017, and 2018 Brady went to three straight Super Bowls, won two of them, and won an MVP award. This was at age 39, 40, and 41. if we want to stretch beyond that 3 year period he went to 8 straight AFC championship games. What on earth are you talking about saying "Brady's peak years don't even compare to Mahomes' first three." This is just typical delusional Brady downplaying. People really take for granted how amazing his career was.
Mahomes had a lot of work ahead of him to be considered the greatest.
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Agree with this. I think comparing Mahomes to Brady and expecting him to end up with similar success throughout his career is incredibly unfair to Mahomes. It shouldnt be the fucking standard people should be held to, it's so unfair because some of Tom brady's records just seem impossible. Mahomes is about to take up a sizeable portion of his teams cap space, so far he's only taken up a fraction and it most likely wont take many years before he'll restructure his contract again if the cap goes up too much. Tom brady took pay cuts his entire career thanks to his wife, I doubt Mahomes will do the same. Mahomes is surrounded by pro-bowl talent, but that wont last unless his FO does an amazing job hitting on every draft (and they'll most likely always have mid and late first rounders) this team that he's had these past few years will likely be the best he'll have his entire career. People also talk about modern sports medicine but Tom's play in his 40's is an outlier and will continue to always be so because any advancement made in medicine will be negated by how much QBs have to scramble (and therefore getting hit) and throw compared to what they used to. If anything I'd bet my money on the average QB retirement will be earlier going forward than before. People just outright assume Mahomes will play till he's 43 like Brady, that is stupid.
Mahomes is the most talented QB I've seen since Aaron Rodgers, who people were talking about decade ago just like they're doing with Mahomes now, and he ended up "only" winning one super bowl. Don't take shit for granted.
Even if they don't call that PI. Rodgers would have had to go up the field in 90 seconds with only 1 time out. Successfully get the 2pt conversion. And then win Overtime. That play Brady made before the half was the difference in that game, not the refs.
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The problem with looking at it that way is then you have to consider every sport. Every capable human on earth has ran at some point in their life, so does that make running the most dominant sport?
So since it's the biggest sport in America = goat in any sport ? This is very disrespectful to all other countries in the world where American football is a niche sport (basically everywhere beside the US)
And there's ways to measure a GOAT in football (soccer) the World Cup, the champions league, the Ballon d'or. There's a reason why the discussion is between Pelé, Maradona, Messi and Ronaldo.
Its almost like this website full of people from all over the world isn't some hive mind of singularity like people like to portray it as.
Mahomes is a dropped pick from that play not mattering at all
Patriots vs. Chiefs AFC Championship Highlights | NFL 2018 Playoffs
The New England Patriots take on the Kansas City Chiefs during AFC Conference Championship of the 2018 Post Season.Subscribe to NFL: http://j.mp/1L0bVBuCheck...
youtu.be
Playing the QB position in the NFL means you have about 3 seconds to make a play or get rid of the ball, before multiple people weighing 270lbs try and hit you into the ground. Not sure if you've ever thrown a football either, but I'm not sure my arm would be up to doing it multiple times per game for 50 yards at age 43 (well, it's already not now, so definitely not). There's also been multiple serious injuries at the QB position this year, as well as a come back story from a QB who quite literally could have died following his injury.
Let's not diminish individuals or even an entire position group in a major sport based on what your view of "physically demanding" is.
Most Americans have never heard of those soccer players. Maybe Ronaldo.
Exposure influences this debate and the reality is that being the best player in the biggest American sport is going to spawn threads like this.
That's definitely a
"happy to be here" and a "I know what I'm doing" picture.
Being a QB is like playing chess boxing except you're not allowed to punch back. It is the hardest position in football
I'm very pleased with Brady having this kind of success this year. first because it strengthens my Bill Parcells > Bill Bellichick argument (Parcells built up 3 super bowl contending teams, took 2 different teams to the super bowl, won 2 rings, took a 4th team to the playoffs, never had a hall of fame QB). second because it just makes Eli and the giants look better. We slayed the dragon twice!
Playing QB is the hardest position in American football. It's as physically demanding as it is mentally.
I'm not saying that there aren't other positions in other sports that aren't more difficult (even the example you use is poor, think about someone like Kipchoge who ran a marathon in 121 minutes). But you are downplaying the physical demands of the position because you don't understand/care for the sport.
The NFL is very much relevant here in Germany.
Games are shown on free TV and like 2 million people watch the super bowl at 3am.
Brady is on the front page of our biggest News website Bild.de as we speak.
We also had some accomplished German players in the NFL (Sebastian Vollmer, Björn Werner).
Same can be said for other EU countries.
Sure, if Tom Brady played striker for Bayern he would be more famous and people would care more.
I have a very surface knowledge of NFL. But for a legendary player to go to a team that hasnt really achieved anything for 10 years, and for them to get to the Superbowl in his first season there is pretty special. It shows not only his quality but the effect and influence he has on the team around him.
I dont know what the analogy would be. Ronaldo going to West Ham and them winning the Premiership in 1 season.
Its a very special achievement regardless of whether Tampa win the final.
I dont know what the analogy would be. Ronaldo going to West Ham and them winning the Premiership in 1 season.
Its a very special achievement regardless of whether Tampa win the final.
There's probably an argument to be had for both bledsoe and simms, and all of this is in good fun and problematic hypotheticals, but if you gave parcells and QB like brady, I think it's entirely plausible that he'd have bellichick like success or even better. how many coaches have the kind of success parcells had with multiple teams? Andy Reid is literally the only other guy I can think of. Don Shula maybe? and that's TWO teams. Parcells had 4 playoff teams as a HC. Took 3 of them to conference championships, 2 of them to the super bowl, won the SB 2x with 1 team. I think it's a fun argument!
Parcells had elite quarterbacks, but it was just a different era of the NFL where it wasn't as quarterback heavy. Bledsoe was considered one of the best young QBs from ~1993-1998 or so, although it was a transition from the 80s/early 90s QBs through to the passing era that Manning, Brady, Brees, Warner, etc would ring in 5 years later. Bledsoe is kinda laughed about because he was the guy before Tom Brady, but he was a passing freak for most of his active years... 1994 in New England and 2002 in Buffalo were his best years, All Pro years, and his ffirst season with Dallas was decent too.
Just a different league, less quarterback dependent, and Parcells was always reticent to have passing offenses... he famously had that line ... "Only three things can happen when you pass the ball, and 2 of them are bad." DIfferent rules, different QB skill sets, and of course super roided meatmen in the 80s didn't really help quarterbacks and WRs.
all fair points. that's what i meant about hypotheticals being problematic. GOAT arguments are always subjective and silly in any sport. there are too many elements at play that you can't just ceteris paribus your way through the comparisons. Like Belichick though, Parcells accomplishments are also unmatched, just in different ways. I'm just surprised that no one ever mentions it
Brady heard a lot of chatter the last several years about how the best QBs, his real peers, were in the NFC, and just generally that the NFC was the better conference. He beat Wilson, but never got to play his other contemporaries Brees and Rodgers, despite making the SB so often.
Now in his first season in the NFC at age 43, he goes into both of their buildings in the playoffs and beats them as an underdog. Wild.
Now in his first season in the NFC at age 43, he goes into both of their buildings in the playoffs and beats them as an underdog. Wild.
As a long time Brady denier, I can't deny him anymore. I thought he was a great QB (but not the GOAT) bolstered by a great organization and GOAT coaching. I remember having a discussion a few years back that the only way I would recognize him as the GOAT is if he went to another organization like Peyton Manning did and elevate them. I didn't think he could do it without the Patriots and Belichick.
I can't deny it anymore, he is the greatest as much as I hate him.
I can't deny it anymore, he is the greatest as much as I hate him.